Stop eating food.

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Start being in a Russian war cemetary.

>Believing in the Gulahoax

Fucking normies

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Stop being notCatholic.

>>3024123
Once again, horseshoe theory.

>>3024123
>he thinks the gulags are the topic of discussion
What is collectivisation?

>>3023403
"What's are you going to do? Gulag me?"
Quote from man gulaged.

>>3024130
uhm, where are the boobs?

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>>3023403
How come all these descendents of kulaks are ripping their ass to get collectivization to be on the same level of genocide.
> There wouldnt be so many of you if there was
> genocide by definition can't be against a class
> People dying is not automatically genocide
> You ancestors were greedy obstructionists and you are trying to continue their tradition of being a petty asshole by playing the victom card

>>3024326
>redistribute land
>some people do better than others and end up richer
>kill them
Truly the most progressive political system

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>>3024362
Nice try except thats not what happened.
> redistribute the land
Most kulaks already owned their land and had peasants working on it before the revolution even occured
> kill them
Most kulaks weren't executed. Nothing happened to them if they complied. Some were exiled/gulaged. The ones who went completely apeshit were executed.

> most progressive
Yeah you are right in the sense that in the 1920s they had:
- antiracial discrimination laws
- were active proponents of gender equality
- free education for all and it was encouraged you get it
- encouraged community service and being active in ones community in general
- got the entire country literate
- got the entire county electricity
- got the entire country working railways
- was a proponent of self-determination
- began giving aid to foreign countries in need
- was a big propent of scientific research and space exploration
- established a program to get everyone housing
- Had 100% employment
- Had child labor laws
- Protected WORKERS RIGHTS
- everyone had pensions they could live on in their old age
- free universal healthcare
- obiously free police and fire departments
- mandatory voting with voting day being a holiday and officials coming to those who are disabled so they can vote.

The USSR had its obvious pitfalls and human rights violations. But those should not overshadow the immense amount of effort put into making it a very progressive place. So you can scoff at it all you want but the truth is that the United States didnt have a lot of this stuff until after FDR, some of this stuff until after the 1960s, and frankly we still dont have some of these programs.AND this was all before 1933. If we continue following the hx we will find this country became the 2nd leading power in the world, with a record breaking economic growth at the time. All the while competeing the US and the West which by design have much quicker growing markets.

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>mfw whenever I feel bad I remember at least I'm not a commie and instantly feel better

Thanks reds

>>3023403
Thank you Joseph for keeping country free from goddamn greedy capitalists, enemy of every worker on the Earth

>>3024545
>being feels

>>3024525
You're really brainwashed. Such a sad sight.

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>>3024622
Nice response. Really adds to the discussion. I'm not some soviet fan boy btw, I disagree with a lot of their desicions and political set up. I am just very well read on their history and its painful to see "hurr durr y r commies so stupid." They actually accomplished a lot in the grand scheme of things and writing it off because it turned into a totelitarian system is not productive. The point is to learn from it and try to improve on it or apply the positives to your own system or w/e.

I'm not the brainwashed one here. Nothing I wrote up their was untrue. If it was I am sure you would have jumped on it. Instead you go for a personal attack and end it in a very trump-like "Sad."

Congrats on being an anti-intellectual.

>>3024525
Liquidation of kulaks happened after land redistribution. It was literally punishment for success.

>>3024731

Commie pls go

>>3024525
Lets see
>-encouraged community service and being active in ones community in general
Oh yea totally voluntary unpaid subbotniks for everyone!
>got the entire country literate
a lie
>got the entire county electricity
also a lie
>got the entire country working railways
definately wasnt true by the 20's and the railways to distant inhospitable places were built by slaves so how is this a point in their favour
> was a proponent of self-determination
So long as you didnt ACTUALLY try to secede from the soviet union, that would result in genocide (ukrainians, ingrians, yakuts, kamyks, everybody else).
>began giving aid to foreign countries in need
At the cost of their own peoples standard of living, and if you can call giving arms to third world despots foreign aid for calling themselves communist
>Had 100% employment
again simply not true for alot of soviet history, maybe it was true in the 70's but even thats with tons of pointless make work jobs
>Had child labor laws
Unless you were in the gulag... Besides what non third world country didnt have that
>Protected WORKERS RIGHTS
Wages and working conditions worsened after the revolution for decades and again thats ignoring the millions working in atrocious conditions in the gulags
>mandatory voting with voting day being a holiday and officials coming to those who are disabled so they can vote.
Even if you consider mandatory voting a good thing, whats the point when there was only one party to vote for. Pure mockery of the population to force them into the polls just to not give them any real choice

It's good tankies and Hitlerboos are too dumb to realize they are literally same shit.

>>3025056
This.

>>3024731
Nope, I just don't want to bother refuting such brainwash. Anyway I think >>3025036 did a pretty good job.

>>3025036
> Oh yea totally voluntary unpaid subbotniks for everyone!
But when schools and colleges make it a requirement in the US you dont react that way and people generally see it as a good thing
> almost entire country became literate is a lie
not a lie
> entire country got electricity is a lie
Ok, not the entire country but the major cities and thier suburbs did which was not the case before
>that would result in genocide
No documented or agreed upon genocides by historians in regards to the USSR
> if you can call giving arms to third world despots foreign aid for calling themselves communis
That goes for any foreign aid given by anyone ever
> 100% employment was due to pointless make work jobs
Person shows up, gets paid for being there, its a fucking job. The point is people got paid.
> what non third world country didnt have child labor laws
The US only adopted the laws it has now in 1938. They did however have a loose regulation since 1916. But dont pretend everyone was so big on child labor.
> working condtions worsened for decades
....right and the proof of that is where exactly?
> What good is voting if there is one party?
Because voting for your cities mayor, council members, or your representative, or other elected officials doesnt matter right? You clearly have no knowledge of the gov. This wasnt North Korea and it wasnt even iraq where people would go to vote for Saddam Hussien. The citizen could vote for the chair of the communist party or the general secretary. Those were decided by the party. But they could still elect people to various positions in government.

>>3024977
> literally
No it wasn't. Tumblr's a calling my friend.

>>3024525
>That picture
Literally wrong on all accounts. TO be accurate, it would be, "I'm taking the grain to sell for german and american machinery while you starve. P.s. No independent nation for you."

>>3024326
The whole "Kulaks were wrong and Stalin was right" thing is just a meme, right? Right?

>>3023403
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Wn3MKPyBe8Y

Stop being an "independent state."

>>3025659
Kulaks were ~1% population of fermers

>>3025659
It is unironically circle jerked by tankies who beleive Stalin was a good boy and dindu nuffin

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>>3025608
>No documented or agreed upon genocides by historians in regards to the USSR


Holodomor is an internationally recognized genocide you plebicite

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>>3025676

love this revisionism

>>3025608
>The citizen could vote for the chair of the communist party or the general secretary. Those were decided by the party. But they could still elect people to various positions in government.


Literally an oligarchic society

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>>3025685
It really isnt

>>3025702
I never said it wasnt. I was just making a point on the mandatory and easily accessable voting. I've already said multiple times I disagree with a lot of aspects of the soviet system. I point out a few positive accomplishments their society made and suddenly I'm Tankie Supreme.

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stop being Serbian.

>>3025748
>It really isnt
>party decides who you can vote for
>see you can vote!

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>>3025659
>believing that the kulaks were innocent and dindu nuffin

>>3025748
Holodomor is though. one google search would tell you it's an internationally recognized genocide by 24 countries. Several more recognize it as at least a crime against humanity.

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>>3025748
But it is.

>>3025781
>hey you own two pigs
>you're a kulak!
>I bet you have hidden grain too
>and have been selling things on the black market

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>>3024326
Why is it the jews are super butthurt that someone is trying to enter the genocide spotlight?

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>dude lets like create a totalitarian dictatorship in order to nationalize everything and then lets have it magically dissolve so there is no government and no money and everybody just shares and stuff

>>3025772
That response wasnt direct at you, you fucking retard. This is the shit I am talking about. Reread the fucking response. Holy shit
.
>>3025785
>>3025793
Yeah and if I google holocaust denial I will get a bunch of results on that. A ton of countries including the US do not admit that the armenian genocide happened which is a lot better documented and is not a controversial topic amognst academia.

Hear me out. Holodomor is a controversial topic amognst academia. According to your own image the only people who aknowledge it are the butthurt eastern former republicsof the USSR, Canada, and Australia. Isn't it strange that the current Russian government which condems a lot of what the USSR did does not admit to it? Isnt it strange that the US and the rest of Europe whose relations with Russia are as strained as they were during the cold war right now dont throw that in its face? In the grand scheme of things it is not widely accepted as a genocide and it is a debated topic in academia. It has become kind of a meme on this board, but it is by no means a settled issue.

>>3025846
Russia is as nationalistic as turkey is. They acknowledge a ton of terrible thugs they did to their OWN citizens. Not the citizens of former bloc countries. They view themselves as benevolent defenders and liberators of these countries from the fascist menace and that independence groups in those countries were fascists and bourgeoise. Admitting genocide really spits in the face of that national narrative they love. And most of Europe as well as the US doesn't acknowledge it as a genocide as you have former colnial empires with their own skeletons. They don't want to be known as genocidal nations anymore then Russia does. Not to mention Putin wouldn't be beyond jacking gas prices in response to any European ackonledgement.

>>3025825
Idk, ask a jew. I just don't like the misuse of the term. A genocide is a specific act, with intent and purpose. This doesn't qualify.

>>3025883
While what you say is true, it doesnt make me consider what happened a genocide. There is not enough evidence for me to call it as such. The worldwide community does not acknowledge it, except for 24 mostly uninfluential countries some of which have a direct interest. It is still largely debated in academic circles. There is no evidence in Russian documentation that it was intentional. There was no propoganda against an ETHNIC group in general. An economic class cannot have a genocide against it. I'm not buying it, and frankly you shouldn't either.

If you want to say that human rights violations occured, I would agree with you. But it isn't a genocide.

>>3025949
Fair enough I suppose. I understand your points though I still disagree with some of them

>>3025883
Thing is that Holodomor is not genocide, nor are ''Ukrainians'' some foreigners who were occupied. Plenty of Ukrainians were communists, and communist policies of collectivization caused starvation which spread far beyond Ukraine.
Holodomor in this sense is just an Ukrainian nationalist myth.
I do not deny the criminality of communist behavior, but those weren't RUSSIANS, they were communists, ruling a communist dictatorship, so it's impossible to pin the collective blame on Russian people, let alone modern Russians.

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>>3024130
cute!

>>3025608
>>that would result in genocide
>No documented or agreed upon genocides by historians in regards to the USSR

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_transfer_in_the_Soviet_Union

Though not strictly genocide they did practice population control where they gulag'd the undesirables and brought in the Russians to replace them. Baltics were ~1% Russian before USSR and in 1991 they almost outnumbered the natives in Estonia. It's borderline genocide.

>>3026025
I'm sure that statistic factors in all the Russians that moved to those area voluntarily as they could in the union. But that aside, forced relocation is at best a human rights violation and it isnt borderline genocide. It isnt even close to genocide. Ask the jews if they would rather be gassed or sent to the fringes of the 3rd reich, ask the armenians if they would rather be slaughtered or relocated into Russia, ask the Tutsi's if they would rather be slaughtered or sent across the border to the Congo. Come on dude. This is what I mean. You guys have diluted what a genocide actually is and what its intent is to the point where you unironically wrote that forced relocation is borderline genocide.

>>3026053
>You guys have diluted what a genocide actually is and what its intent is to the point where you unironically wrote that forced relocation is borderline genocide.

Nah, you need to educate yourself

http://www.un.org/en/preventgenocide/adviser/pdf/osapg_analysis_framework.pdf

>>3026053
>Scatter a people all across Siberia
>Russians replace their ancestral homes
>In a generation or two the original culture and language of the place is gone and replaced by Russian

That is literally what genocide is, replacing the native population with your own kind

>>3024326
>>3024525
I'm not even a commie but they're right on this for once.

Kulaks got off easy.

>>3026078
>oh you arent an alcoholic and have a bit of savings?
>everyone around you is alcoholic
>and you have a silver candlehoarder
>you are kulak ))))))))))))))

>>3026064
>http://www.un.org/en/preventgenocide/adviser/pdf/osapg_analysis_framework.pdf
According to this definition the average troll/cyberbully is committing genocide on a daily basis. IE this definition is meaningless.
>>3026077
Except the native pop isnt dead tho is it? You do know what the geno- prefix and the -cide suffix mean right? The word is self-explanatory. Getting rid of a culture is a super loose definition of genocide.

>>3024326
Yes it's called politicide, unless someone argues that Stalin intentionally starved off all the Ukrainians, not only those who were against him. Then, it will be genocide.

>>3026110
>According to this definition the average troll/cyberbully is committing genocide on a daily basis. IE this definition is meaningless.

Oh ok I guess the UN doesnt know anything about genocide and your definition is the only valid one

>>3026110
It's about the end and not the means. Imagine if Hitler instead of killing the Jews imprisoned them for life instead and then saying "It's literally not genocide :^))))"

>>3024161
Horseshoe theory is BS. There's left and right, there's libertarian and authoritarian. If there's parallels between Communists and Nazis, it's not because somehow extreme left loops around to become extreme right, it's because they're both Authoritarian ideologies.

>>3024731
>being an (((intellectual)))
Sad!

>>3026122
No need to get passive-aggressive, it is objectively a shit definition because it can literally be applied to a cyber bully. Try it and it works. Its not my fault the UN decided on a conveniently vague definition of genocide. I'm asking you to think for yourself, their definition doesnt make sense. A troll on the internet insulting you in an attempt to cause you mental harm, by this definition, would be participating in genocide against whatever group you fit in. I stand by the fact that the intent was not there and that the UN has a shit defintion of genocide.
>>3026125
Not really. Because you could achieve the same means by buying up the property they live on at 500% market price forcing them to relocate, yet no one would call that genocide because they would happily take that deal and smile all the way to the bank. Also beng exilled or imprisoned is much preferable to being put ina concentration camp and then gassed.

>>3026172
>Also beng exilled or imprisoned is much preferable to being put ina concentration camp and then gassed.

Classic Soviet whataboutism compromise. It's okay because we are 5% less cruel than the literal Nazis.

>>3026197
Wow. Here I thought I made an objective statement about relocation and imprisonment being better than getting killed. But apparently I said THE SOVIETS DID NOTHING WRONG! I HAVE A TATTOO OF STALIN ON MY CHEST! HOW I WISH I LIVED IN THE USSR!

Stop putting word in my mouth and making me out to be a soviet apologist cuz Im not. They commited human rights violations. I am simply arguing that i was not genocide. I never said it was ok.

>>3026172
>A troll on the internet insulting you in an attempt to cause you mental harm, by this definition, would be participating in genocide against whatever group you fit in.

Most things are stupid when taken to some comical extreme

>I stand by the fact that the intent was not there and that the UN has a shit defintion of genocide.

Population resettlement definitely was intentional. Possession of the baltic states was long a goal of the russian empire, and the USSR essentially being an extension of that russian imperialism say population relocation as a means to an end. Make the baltic states mostly russian and they will become russian territory indefinitely.

The chinese are doing the same thing in tibet and their western province.

>>3026223
A good definition should not be allowed to be taken to the extreme, especially so easily. An orange is not defined as brightly colored sphere and one may or may not eat. So why the fuck is genocide so loose. Its a bad defintion and you really can't argue that.

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>kulaks and communist atrocities are just capitalist funded lies
>holocaust which is promoted by the same capitalist means is not

>>3026252
>So why the fuck is genocide so loose.

Because there are many means of eliminating a population from their ancestral homes

>>3026078
I'm not even a nazi but they're right on this one.

The jews got off easy.

>>3023416

"I must unite the russian people under one grave"

>>3024326
>collectivize the farms to efficiently deal with the problem
>collectivize the farms to efficiently deal
>collectivize efficiently
>collective
>efficiently
This is what leftypol actually believs.

>>3025680
stalin gave those (((rootless cosmopolitans))) what they deserved