Can you give me a quick rundown on Rhodesia?

>>3014839
Here you go.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyJFRTJgPbU

>>3014839
The british wanted all their colonies to be democratic and shit, especially if they wanted to be independent.
The rhodies didnt care and declared independence anyway but nobody recognized them and the blacks rebelled.
Only Portugal and South Africa helped them but after Portugal left Africa things became significantly worse for Rhodesia. The rhodies eventually figured out a way to give blacks power and end the war without becoming another african shithole. The rest of the world still didnt recognize them for some dumb fucking reason so they were forced to give power to the commies turning Rhodesia/Zimbabwe into complete shit even for african standards.

>>3014880
Also South African help was half arsed bullshit and didn't recognize them either

>>3014890
Yeah i found it really weird how South Africa somehow thought they would get to keep doing their thing if they gave up Rhodesia.
But were the portuguese more helpful?

>>3014900
Portugal sold Rhodesian goods as if they were Portuguese which let them get around sanctions, Iran was the most useful because it sold them oil they wouldn't be able to get

system disguising itself as non racist curtails rights to vote, tied to wealth, suprisingly majority cant vote! wow! so democratic! african paradise!

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>>3014993
>tied to wealth
Tied to education.

>>3014993
Still 100 times better than Zimbabwe

>>3014993
Well at least they had food

>>3015002
for the small percentage of whites, yes.

>>3015008
For everyone except the british government*

>>3014839

TL;DR

>black people were in charge. quality of life was complete shit
>white people come in and make everything amazing
>black people chimpout
>white people leave
>black people take over again and quality of life goes to shit again

>>3015008
Nah. A fuck tonne of South Africans regret the end of Apartheid, and ZA is nowhere near as shit as Zimbabwe became.

>>3015008
>While as Rhodesia, the country was once considered the breadbasket of Africa. Today, Zimbabwe is a net importer of foodstuffs, with the European Union and United States providing emergency food relief as humanitarian aid on a regular basis. The nation has suffered profound economic and social decline in the past twenty years.
Its weird how facts disagree with you.

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>>3015021
Oh yeah I bet they do

>>3015026
Yeah it's pretty hard to be a breadbasket once you run out of second-class citizens to exploit

>>3015038
More like once you run out of people who know how to run a farm because you decided to redistribute them to war veterans who know literally nothing about farming and couldn't be fucked to educate them on how to either

>>3015021
Are there even blacks who regret it?

>>3015038
More like run out of an actually capable workforce because the whites were forcefully expulsed or killed.

They were not the bad guys commies say they are. Mugabes idol is Hitler.

>>3015041
>>3015045
While the redistribution was handled extremely poorly, there is nothing wrong with expelling your oppressors from your country

>>3015052
How exactly were whites opressing? Facts, this time.

>>3015038
>Yeah it's pretty hard to be a breadbasket once you run out of second-class citizens to exploit
And I bet that you think that Soviet-Russia (or Soviet Union and more specifically Ukraine) serve as analogy.

And in your opinion, exploiting 'second-class citizens' is worse than genociding people with know-how and making intelligence negative feature or electing Communist terrorist as head of state, with dozens of 'collateral (negro, by the way) damage' in his CV.

>>3014999
which was not free you imbecile shitposting brown mule polfag

>>3015052
It is wrong to expel them if you are only going to replace them with a much worse one.

>>3015064
play stupid games, win stupid prizes americuck

>>3015052
Rhodesia-Zimbabwe existed, so not an argument, you're literally supporting terrorism

Whatever the 'liberal' argument, the countries went to shit after negroes took charge.
Not a big a deal really, if 100% of Afrikaneers were given refuge in the West and no monies or foodstuffs' be ever sent to Black continent again. But they are sent (and wasted) ever increasingly, from my wallet without my consent.

>>3015060
They weren't. Uneducated retards literally apply things from South Africa to Rhodesia for whatever reason.

>>3015044
He's probably exaggerating, but there are definetly some. From what I've heard from Saffers, the sweet spot for SA was a decade or so after Apartheid, but before the ANC figured out all they had to do to keep power was blame whitey.
From then on they could just sweep their massive corruption and incompetence under the rug by stealing white farmer land and handing it over to incompetent cronies.
http://www.thesouthafrican.com/zulu-king-praises-apartheid-government-lashes-out-at-anc/

>>3015044
For the average poor black in a township nothing has changed, well I guess they don't set tyres around peoples necks on fire as often anymore

European colonial powers will be missed when Han-Chinese put their colonialism to full motion. It won't be pretty and unorganized and unintelligent negoes are powerless to stop it, just like they were to European colonialism.
Wheres' your heaven manna promising, fat Dear Leaders then? (with your national budget, finding refuge in Europe of course).

>>3015060
>Following Cecil Rhodes's dictum of "equal rights for all civilised men", there was no overt racial component to the franchise. However, the requirement excluded a majority of native blacks from the electorate.

>Up until the 1950s, Southern Rhodesia had a vibrant political life with right and left wing parties competing for power. The Rhodesian Labour Party held seats in the Assembly and in municipal councils throughout the 1920s and 1930s. From 1953 to 1958, the prime minister was Garfield Todd, a liberal who did much to promote the development of the Black community through investment in education, housing and healthcare. However, the government forced Todd from office because his proposed reforms were seen by many whites as too radical.

>
From 1958 onwards, white settler politics consolidated and ossified around resistance to majority rule, setting the stage for UDI. The 1961 Constitution governed Southern Rhodesia and independent Rhodesia up until 1969, using the Westminster Parliamentary System modified by a system of separate voter rolls with differing property and education qualifications, without regard to race. Whites ended up with the majority of Assembly seats.

>The 1969 republican constitution established a bicameral Parliament consisting of an indirectly elected Senate and a directly elected House of Assembly, effectively reserving the majority of seats for whites.

>>3015081
This. I cannot understand why the world would reject it like it did with Rhodesia. If it had remained it would probably have been the best country in Africa.

>>3015106
I don't see a single word about oppression in that text. Not having a right to vote isn't being oppressed, I don't have a right to vote right this second and nobody oppresses me.

>>3015105

Agreed. No one is really talking about the new wave of colonialism coming from the Chinese. It's literally the same thing as European style colonialism:

>Chinese get African leaders to allow them to set up shop in their countries
>build large scale business interests
>encourage leaders to let them buy up land to house workers
>proceed to ship workers to Africa and move them into towns on bought land
>Africans don't benefit from business, they generally don't hire Africans because they sick

The next move is for the chinese govt to claim the land as belong to the PRC and send the armed forces to protect their business interests.

>>3015118
Political oppression is still oppression.

>>3015127
Not having a right to vote is not oppression, end of.

>>3015130
Why not?

>>3015134
Why yes? Like I said, I don't have a right to vote right now. Am I oppressed?

>>3015134
tr.v. op·pressed, op·press·ing, op·press·es
1. To keep down by severe and unjust use of force or authority: a people who were oppressed by tyranny.


Note that requiring an education to vote isn't unjust.
>>3015070
what are loans

>>3015138
No, because neither does anyone else. Once election time comes you and everyone else over 18 will have the right to vote.

When one part of the population has the right to vote and the other doesn't, they are being politically oppressed.

>>3014900
>But were the portuguese more helpful?
Yeah, they were Rhodesia's greatest ally until they lost their own colonial war (Ultramar); Which is extremely interesting on its own, look it up.

>>3014993
>suprisingly majority cant vote! wow! so democratic! african paradise!
Democracy has no inherent value.

>>3015140
Two thirds of software developers are self-taught and most of them do not have a degree of any kind.

Do they not deserve te right to vote?

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>>3015149
Almost as if the concept of universal suffrage is arbitrary and also gay

>>3015149
I meant I don't have the right to vote when the elections are on, dumbass.

>>3015157
I don't really understand the point you're trying to make atm.

Are you saying you're underage?

>>3015164
If you're underage, it's still not oppression because everyone including you will receive the right to vote once they reach the required age.

>>3015170
I'm a PR, not underage.

>>3015156
Ideally, no. I personally believe that voting should be a privilege.

>>3015168
So basically you're saying that kids are being politically opressed because they can't vote. Oh and also, everyone including blacks will recieve the right to vote once they reach the required education.

Say, are foreigners also opressed because they can't vote, and arn't able to without paying a fee for citizenship?

>>3015180
No, I'm saying kids are not being politically oppressed, see this post >>3015170

Foreigners are not oppressed because they either don't pay taxes or they don't have residency

Who will decide who receives the privilege? How will you measure it?

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Reminder that Botswana accepted independence majority rule one year after Rhodesia declared independence, and has had a stable constitutional democracy ever since despite being poor as fuck. They now have the highest HDI in the region and one of the highest per capita GDPs in Africa.
>b-but majority rule would have meant a dictatorship!
>muh farming economy!

>>3015184
Botswana is the exception, not the rule, and they didn't have communists fighting over the country.

>>3015002
Mugabe's dictatorial powers are directly derived from the emergency powers claimed by Ian Smith so I don't consider this a huge testament to the wisdom of Rhodesian whites.

>>3015184
Majority rule in Botswana also didn't mean having literal cannibal bolshevik niggers in charge of the country.

>>3015191
Oh yes, putting a communist terrorist in charge of the country would never lead to dictatorial rule if not for the evil yts.

>>3015180
>are foreigners also opressed because they can't vote
Many people believe this, though. It's a natural development after universal suffrage. They're trying to give noncitizen immigrants voting rights in my country.

>>3015191
>In late 1987, Zimbabwe's parliament amended the constitution. On 30 December it declared Mugabe to be executive President, a new position that combined the roles of head of state, head of government, and commander-in-chief of the armed forces. This position gave him the power to dissolve parliament, declare martial law, and run for an unlimited number of terms. According to his biographer Martin Meredith, Mugabe now had "a virtual stranglehold on government machinery and unlimited opportunities to exercise patronage". The constitutional amendments also abolished the twenty parliamentary seats reserved for white representatives, and left parliament less relevant and independent.
Why are you lying?

>>3015203
>They're trying to give noncitizen immigrants voting rights in my country
I'm >>3015178 and I gotta say the people in charge of your country must be literal cretins.

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>>3015183
>Who will decide who receives the privilege? How will you measure it?
A free one-year educaction able to be undertaken by anyone, not dissimilar to the army.

>Foreigners are not oppressed because they either don't pay taxes or they don't have residency
Wrong. You can have permanent residency in a country, but you will still retain your old cititizenship untill you pay to get a new one. So basically, I guess they are. I'm speaking from experience here, although I'm not the other anon that realizes how dumb you are.

>>3015190
ZANLA and ZIPRA formed in response to Rhodesia's rejection of majority rule. African nationalists took up Communist causes because those were often the only ones offering to help.
Even then the Commies only gained much success in the 1970s, when the Rhodesian Army despite its impressive kill count completely failed to provide population security for the black farmers in the North, on whom the economy depended.
The epic RLI hotpants meme tends to leave out how they failed this basic element of counterinsurgency strategy.

>>3015211
Sorry, I should have said "were." Between 79 and 87 Mugabe used the emergency powers of the Smith era to detain Nkomo's backers and solidify his powerbase of the nation. This permitted him to legislate away permanently what Smith had suppressed.

How come DPRK can function basically without any foreign help, even if they're poor, while Zimbabwe has to go around and constantly beg for money and humanitarian aid like a bitch? Is "niggers" the answer or is it more complex?

>>3015214
What would you learn during that year that a "non-educated" person wouldn't?

>>3015255
>
According to a report by Congressional Research Service, the United States provided the North over $1.3 billion in assistance, mostly food aid and energy assistance, between 1995 and 2008. Since early 2009, the U.S. has withheld all types of humanitarian aid to North Korea, while denying any connection between its political relations with the regime and humanitarian assistance.

>>3015257
Stuff like discipline, responsibility, rational thought, etc. It'd be grueling and hard on purpose, so that only those very motivated to get into politics would want to complete it.

>>3015255
The DPRK had a tradition of statehood already, whereas Mugabe fired almost everyone employed by the state and replaced them with his own thugs.

>>3015255
The DPRK is dependent on foreign aid. The use of calculated misbehavior to extort more aid is central to their foreign policy.

>>3015266
>The DPRK had a tradition of statehood already
No it didn't, both Koreas were literally carved out of Japan that annexed them in 1910.

>>3015266
>Stuff like discipline, responsibility, rational thought, etc. It'd be grueling and hard on purpose, so that only those very motivated to get into politics would want to complete it.
This actually sounds like a good idea

>>3015274
That doesn't change what I said.

>>3015255
Norks are dependant on foreign help, which is ironic since the juche motto is "we can manage everything on our own". With that help they buy chinese crap and slam the logo of some north korean factory on it to sell to the masses

>>3015279
It does. There was no Korean state for 40 years and they had to create it from scratch.

>>3015296
They did get alot more foreign help than Zimbabwe though.

>>3015307
Zimbabwe wouldn't even exist if Soviet Union wasn't pumping a cockload of money into them.

>>3015296
Well, no, no state, but there was fucking local governance that existed and that retained its buerocrats from a long tradition of having buerocrats. When Mugabe took power, he immediately did away with said buerocrats, everything from the post office to the minister of agriculture was newly elected from thugs with no experience in either. I can't believe I have to say this twice.

>>3014839
Britain has an American shotgun to its back and begins to decolonize Africa. Brits pressure Rhodesia into becoming Black majority democracy, Rhodies laugh in their face.

>Rhodesia declares independence under white minority government to oppress blacks harder
>Black rebels, aided by everyone except Portugal and South Africa, start guerilla war in Rhodesia
>Rhodies, backed into a corner, introduce plan for limited black participation in politics
>Black rebels respond, lol no
>Britain creates peace agreement between rebels and Rhodies. The blacks get majority rule, but are not allowed to take white land without paying for it (big issue since tiny white minority owns vast majority of land)
>Rhodesia becomes Zimbabwe and most whites leave, taking racist butthurt with them
>In the early 2000s, deal with Britain expires and Mugabe starts taking white land without permission, although he does pay afterwards
>During the time, Mugabe also goes insane and start priting more Mugabebucks
>inflation.jpg
>Economy collapses because of 1 million percent inflation
>Butthurt Rhodies spread rumour that Zimbabwe is shit because of 'muh white farm', not because of the whole hyperinflation thing

>>3015026
Yes, net food exports have declined, but the well being of the average Zimbabwean has increased. Farming is much less efficient after the trained white farmers left, to be replaced with uneducated peasants, but the revenues from that farming are more evenly distributed.

The median wealth of Zimbabweans increased after the end of Rhodesian rule until around the mid 2000s, when Mugabe decided to print shittonnes of money and crashed the economy

>>3015255
I know for a fact that the british government gives aid to the DPRK.

>>3014880
>they were forced to give power to the commies
When did communists came to power?

>>3015255
NK takes foreign aid from many western Euro nations and the US. They also trade with China and Russia. In NK they believe BMWs are actually built in NK.

>>3015518
>>Rhodies, backed into a corner, introduce plan for limited black participation in politics
>limited
The blacks received 2 thirds of the parliament which means they get to lead the government and decide the outcome of the country which is what they did since Ian Smith and the whites in general would never have accepted giving in to the terrorists.

>>3015552
1980

>>3014839
Shitty meme state that was doomed to fail because 97% of the population was second class citizens to the minority.

>>3015557
and the tiny minority which barely made 4% of the population got 1/3 of parilment. Nah thats shit m8.

>>3015527
>The median wealth of Zimbabweans increased after the end of Rhodesian rule
The median wealth of the entire world increased after the end of Rhodesian rule.

>>3016015
If you have 51% of the parliament you have 100% of the power meaning blacks would have been able to decide how much power the whites would have if they were not happy with it.

>naming a country after an obese jewish homosexual
>expecting it to succeed

>>3016058
You think all the Blacks would be 100% in uninson each and every time? When there would be Communist blacks, liberals, conservatives, those representing minority ethnicities, etc. The 1/3 was intended to keep Whites some of their unrepresentative power in government.

>>3015518
Most of this is false.

>>>/leftypol/

>>3016004
People have no idea what majority rule meanst. It simply means that Rhodesia functions like every other democracy where the will of the majority rule and it coincidentally turns out that in a nation that's nearly 100% black that the majority would be black.

>>3015518
You forgot the Congo war

>>3015266
>>>3015257 #
>Stuff like discipline, responsibility, rational thought, etc. It'd be grueling and hard on purpose, so that only those very motivated to get into politics would want to complete it.

Is this Rhodesia you ate proposing about?

>>3014839
Government of a country that is 95% black with no real allies decides that doubling down on white supremacism is the way to go, and lock up the most threatening opposition leaders in an isolated gulag where the prisoners spend months bonding through adversity and making plans for overthrowing the government. The government then picks up an idiot ball and lets said prisoners go. When the war starts, the government continues to treat the black soldiers fighting in their military like dirt because reasons. They do well in many battles because they're fighting incredibly dysfunctional opponents, but eventually get rekt and at the last minute try to do what they should have done years ago and agree to a governing coalition of black and white leaders. The anti-government forces keep pushing and an incompetent fuck head takes over and quickly uses the military to go slaughter the other major African ethnic groups in the country, then redistributes land to his inner circle which creates a borderline feudal power structure. He then eventually becomes a puppet of said empowered land owning generals and soldiers.

>>3015557
How would mixed folk go under? Why should being white (~4%) make your vote mean more at all? You know proposing a similar thing that X group should get immense disproportionate representation in another nation would get you laughed out the building?

>>3016103
Cool censoring /pol/tard

>>3016096
They would be in unison that whites should have less power so the whites would lose their third sooner or later.

>>3016228
Because giving natives majority rule inevitably leads to tribal fighting, as is happening in Zimbabwe and plenty other countries. It's not about racism or white supremacy, if you think so you're simply analyzing it from an Americentric POV.
The other option to having a neutral, foreign group of people (in this case whites) in the government is to just do away with colonial borders and central power. No chance of that happening.

>>3016367
I've never used /pol/. Not even once.

>>3016440
Answer the question: what voting group would mixed folk fall under?

Also majority rule means letting every person in the nation have the right to vote with no enfranchisement faggotry that was explicitly meant to nerf the Black vote into irrelevancy then using vague reasoning and catch-22's to justify it.

Democracy isn't a neat and clean affair because every nation has their own problems and issue and Zimbabwe isn't any different. Hell many nations that had ethnic election strife in and outside Africa now deal with those issues much better then they did in the past because working it out.

If I have a son and I never let him use the car for practice or give him any help on passing the tests at all and he wants a driver's license he's gonna have a bunch of issues. If he passes the test and he has no "on the road experience" doing the on the road tests will be hard and even if he does pass the test the sheer fact that he's never been on an actual road with other human drivers for anything outside a test environment will mean that he be much worse off then other new drivers with a full license.

>>3016396
Lets give a random state/province of a first world country that ~3-4% 1/3 representation and lets see how much of a wreck their system turns into. Lets not mention how much of a pain in the ass shit gets that a group (who will always vote the same) can pretty much has way more power then the 66% because if you EVER want to win you need to secure the 33% vote and simply half of it is enough to win (even if the white vote is pretty much all RF voters in R-Z) so the whol system turns into "GET THE /3rd!!!" to the detriment of everyone else.

>>3016591
>what voting group would mixed folk fall under?
I have no idea, but most likely white or their own group, which is how South Africa did it, though the Apartheid was another situation entirely.
I'm simply presenting a justification against majority rule. Many colonial African leaders were against it for the same reasons. Obviously this does not absolve whites of fucking everything up in Africa in the first place, but disenfranchising black voters was nothing more than damage control.

>>3014839
RHODESIANS NEVER DIE