Pure Land Buddhism is the worst

All Buddhist sects are fan-fic. The Buddha was nothing more than a wandering skeptic and moral philosopher of the likes of Diogenes and Epicurus. In India there's no separation between religion and philosophy. If Plato or Aristotle had been born in India their schools would have undoubted have become religious sects, with their followers attributing every sort of miracle and apocryphal text to them. The Mahayana tradition is the worst when it comes to making stuff up.
>look at this manuscript I found containing the "secret teachings" of the Buddha, a thousand years after the Buddha's death and written in Chinese

>>2995316
You think Mahayana is bad, look at Vajrayana.

Theravada is the only acceptable school, and even then-

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>>2995285
Except it's an entirely orthodox concept:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sot%C4%81panna
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_cosmology#Pure_Abodes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An%C4%81g%C4%81mi

In either case Adi-Buddha is slightly more common in the Vajrayana traditions that straight Mahayana; and even then it's most often referring to, again, an orthodox concept:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trikaya#P.C4.81li_Canon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharmak%C4%81ya#Pali_Canon

>why even bother
Wait, what?
According to most of the Tibetan schools the only valid goal is achieving Liberation as quickly as possible. "One who aspires to become buddha as soon as possible and then help sentient beings in full fledge."

Geshe Kelsang Gyatso notes:
>In reality, the second two types of bodhicitta are wishes that are impossible to fulfill because it is only possible to lead others to enlightenment once we have attained enlightenment ourself. Therefore, only king-like bodhicitta is actual bodhicitta. Je Tsongkhapa says that although the other Bodhisattvas wish for that which is impossible, their attitude is sublime and unmistaken.

>>2995337
>Theravada is the only acceptable school
Oh, you mean that one school where it languished in neglect and lineal succession crises to the point where people were literally worshiping page fragments in a language they couldn't read while the Tibetans maintained a historically traceable and well documented chain of initiations that cross back and forth into the subcontinent from the end of the Pala Debates through the modern day?

>>2995401
Even you know the Tibetans pretty much merged their own wacky religion with Buddhism right?
The debates and commentary for the most part are lost, all we have commentary about commentary.

>>2995401
Siddharta would have cringed hard at Tibetan Buddhism.

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>>2995401
>tripfag

Why am I not surprised?

>>>/x/

>>2995316
>In India there's no separation between religion and philosophy
There were the Charvakas. They were a kind of proto-empiricists, who rejected spiritualism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charvaka

>>2995413
>Even you know the Tibetans pretty much merged their own wacky religion with Buddhism right?
I dunno what the problem is. Bon is neat, and has nothing to do with the fact that the doctrines in question here: >>2995367 >>2995316
>>2995285, are all supported in the Tripitaka.

>>2995433
>Buddha: "K, guys, I'm gonna go teach the Dharma to the Gods."
>Tibetans: "Man, maybe we should go see what Siddhartha taught the Gods. To both verify doctrine and seek new perspectives."
>Anon: "I think Siddhartha would have objected to this."

>>2995437
You seem to have misplaced your argument.
>>2995443
Carvakas are also neat. Soft spot for some Jain doctrines too.

>>2995316

The same thing happened in Hellas, just look at Pythagoreanism.

So what are the main differences between the three branches of buddhism anyways?

>>2995462
This is what delusion/schizophrenia looks like. Take your esoterica bullshit to some other place, faggot.

>>2995523
>referencing historical lineages of religions on a history/humanities board is irrelevant
Go back to your *blocks your path* and "WE WUZ" threads, faggot. This entire thread is literally about the historical veracity of esoteric system(s)

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>>2995719
this triggers the protestant.

>>2995367

fuck off you drug addled armchair theologian

>>2995742
wot? Please explain the relevancy to my post (?!)

>>2995755
How much time did you spend on your immaculate refutation, anoemoose?

>>2995413
Bon came after Buddhism in Tibet in around 11th century. Buddhism however replaced the older tribal/animistic/spiritual ideas floating around in Tibet. So by the time Bon was a thing (its always been a fringe), its the Bon that borrowed heavily from Buddhism. The Buddhism in Tibet was mostly firmly established by then with lineage dating back to early CE.

Its bit incorrect to say Tibet merged with their wacky religion when there wasn't a well established religion in Tibet to begin with. Its more accurate to say pre-Buddhist animistic beliefs in Tibet had only minor impact on Tibetan Buddhism. The main role the older beliefs plays is in some of the rituals that's been Buddhicized. The human bones instruments/sky burials/etc are remnants of old rituals but they've been made so the intent and the ideology behind are fully within Buddhist context (compassion)

>>2996318
>Bon came after Buddhism in Tibet in around 11th century
"Bon" as an identifiable and coherent entity, yes, but it didn't just pop out of nowhere and the cluster of Siberio-Asiatic shamanic and religious practices held root there for centuries before and after the rise of the orthodox Tibetan schools.

>when there wasn't a well established religion in Tibet to begin with. Its more accurate to say pre-Buddhist animistic beliefs in Tibet had only minor impact on Tibetan Buddhism
I very frankly would disagree after going through a deep and thorough analysis of Kalachakra (and other) tantras which contain clear evidence of ""Proto-Bon's"" existence - shit, it's pretty well thought Kurukulla was an entirely native goddess before Vajrayana got their hands on her, and Chod a native practice.

>sky burials
I've got a book in the library that makes a really coherent case that sky burials were actually introduced from Buddhist syncretism with Zoroastrian tower of silence practices rather than whatever the natives were doing.

>>2996512
>Kurukulla
Native Indian goddess

>Chod
11th century buddhist transmission from India

>sky burials origins in Zoroastrian
conjecture at best

>>2995462
>Man, maybe we should go see what Siddhartha taught the Gods
They "accomplish" this through hilarious attempts at divination and magic that were never in line with Siddhartha's intent.

>>2995316
We know less about the historical Buddha than we do about Jesus. The idea that there was not a religious dimension to his teachings is pure speculation and an unlikely one.

Of course many westerners dont like the mahayana practice of adding things on. Its something usually rejected in our traditions (despite the fact many Christian books were not written by their claimed author and are read anyway) the question remains however if it is at odds with basic buddhism

personally I am not religious in the least but I find the mahayana schools such as shingon far more interesting than the Theravada traditions. If I could earn the meditation techniques of one or the other I would take mahayana.

>>2996597
What are you talking about Westerners are attracted to Mahayana more than anything else.
The real problem is westerners who like to impose their own views on Buddhism gravitate towards sects that are willing to make exceptions and degenerate Buddhism like they have Christianity.

>>2996577
>Native Indian goddess
Just because she was syncretized as a Kaliform does not inherently mean she is Kali.
Now, if you wanna make that argument about Mahakali or Blue Tara I'll be more receptive.

>11th century buddhist transmission from India
Have you read "Chod practice in the Bon tradition"? It's pretty dang good and substantiates a dual lineage flowing through ... Gyuma Chenmo? Can't recall.

>conjecture at best
Don't gripe at me gripe at the authors and offer better.

>>2996578
Which would imply that you intimately know Siddhartha's heart and thus would gladly study under you...if you can present some tangible indication of Attainment(s).

>>2996614
I basically have equal authority to some Tibetan claiming new scriptures were "revealed" to him.

>>2996667
>He never finds Terma manuscripts while out meditating
Get good, anon.

>>2996597
Like >>2996667 said, if I wanted to become a Buddhist, maybe, just maybe, I´d be interested in what the guy named Buddha had to say, not some monk living hundreds if not thousands of years after him, in China or Tibet, writing fan-fics between lunch and the next meditation section. This would be equivalent to a Christian taking the books of St Augustin as his sacred canon and disregarding the bible entirely. This is why we have such things as literary criticism. But that´s just me!

>>2996683
>disregarding the bible entirely
~t. ignorant of kangyur contents
So, I should ask then, since you seem to know, what percentage of the Tripitaka is present in the Kangyur? Here, I'll give you a hint:
>They have the exact same Vinaya. Verbatim. Word for word.

>>2995285
Idk how accurately you're describing Pure Land Buddhism, but that kind of sounds like Christianity and Islam with the whole submission to a higher power and praying for salvation to get brought into the afterlife.

>>2996683
Well if you're going to assume he pali cannon is the unaltered words of the Buddha more power to you, but that is an absurd assumption. In fact it seems to have operated on the basis of a clear teaching lineage back to the Buddha, which both Theravada and Mahayana sects can claim. If the core lessons were truly passed on in tact, a teacher should be able to know what can be changed and what cannot.

It also seems an assumption that Buddhism would operate on a sola scriptora like basis like some strains of Christianity.

>>2995742
Literally nonsensical.

>>2995285

Alan Watts has an interesting take on it:

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=xQIG9lWkgcUC&lpg=PP1&pg=PA97#v=onepage&q&f=false

>>2996691
Is eastern mysticism worth giving time to? I'm far more interested in western Christian mysticism, and the Kabbalah is about as far east as I've gone, discounting the drifting Persian/Indian influences that probably had sway in the Semitic and subsequently western spiritual philosophies.

Thank you for The Library, by the way.

>>2997703
Christian mysticism most likely has Eastern roots or atleast has some ties to it.

>>2995401
Got any good sources on that take of Therevadan history?

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>>2995285
I think it's pretty aesthetic, and I can appreciate religions on that level alone.

>>2997852
The Religious Traditions of Asia: Religion, History, and Culture
Theravāda Buddhism: A Social History From Ancient Benares to Modern Colombo
Sects & Sectarianism: The Origins of Buddhist Schools
LoC - "The Society and Its Environment" (Religion: Historical Background section)
Pali Literature of Ceylon
THE BROKEN BUDDHA: Critical Reflections on Theravada and a Plea for a New Buddhism