Why did Islam fail to evolve and have their own version of a

>>2982598
You are not very good at analogies, right? Or at history or religious science for that matter?

>>2982598
They're having one right now and it's called ISIS.

>>2982616

>ISIS is a liberal and progressive movement

The entire fucking point of Protestantism was that they thought the religion was evolving and wanted to reverse it. Religious evolution was seen as a bad fucking thing by the proddies.

>>2982619
>The Reformation was a liberal and progressive movement

>>2982598
What had gone through christinism is degenerancy, not evolution. Good thing islam has been spared.

>>2982616
You mean Wahhabism/Salafism
ISIS is more like the Anabaptists

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>>2982619

Because as we know, the rise of protestantism immediately ushered an era of unprecedented peace and liberality. It certainly wasn't by its own definition a return to fundamentalist interpretations of scripture.

>>2982632
I'm not sure if OP has enough braincells to catch the irony mate.

>>2982598
>French revolution
>Islam
The French revolution was a anti-monarchistic bourgeois revolution. I fail to see what this should have to do with Islam.

>>2982598

Racial inferiority.

>>2982664
Hell, Ataturk and the Arab socialists were pretty much their versions of the French Revolution.

>but it lapsed back into fundamentalism
Yeah well the Restoration backtracked even harder.

>>2982679
Attatürk reformed the Ottoman state, not the Islamic religion.
Face it OP, you are an idiot, you are too stupid to even ask a correct question. Your thread is one big failure.

>>2982619
Where the fuck did you get the retarded idea the Reformation was liberal?

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>>2982598
Ever read Averroes?
Avicenna?
Ibn Arabi?
Al-Farabi?
Alhazen?
Suhrawardi?
Mulla Sadra?
Gülen?

>>2982619
>Protestant Reformation was a liberal and progressive movement

>>2982616
>ISIS
>Reformation
No, actually, we've been through this before, but they were called Khawarij.

>>2982598
Islam did have plenty of relatively liberal movements, such as Jadidism or Islamic Modernism, for example, if that's what you are looking for. Remeber, Islam is not monolithic, especially Sunni Islam. Some Muslims are as developed and as secular/liberal as most Europeans (such as Tatars or Kazakhs) others tend to be very backwards (such as Somalis or Afghanis).

Because unlike the other Semitic Abrahamic Religions. Islam refuses to bend over and appease the Cancer, that is Liberal Hedonistic Materialism.

>>2982619
>The Reformation was a liberal and progressive movement
Yes I am bandwagoning, bc you need it.

>>2982598
Quranism is a theological failure and the Qur'an talks about reformers.
Anything that changes Islam for the west is a theological failure.
Wahhabi Islam is lit tho

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>>2982619
>The Reformation was a liberal and progressive movement

>>2983413
Catholicism has almost invariably been on the wrong side of progress in freedom and truth while the Reformation was essentially a rational , democratic revolution against a murderous theocratic monstrosity maintained through brainwashing and terror .

>>2983421
>Puritans
>Rational
Better not see you in anything other than black anon, and you better not dance

>>2983450
Mock all you want,Catholicism has been an enemy of progress since its inception, burning books and people it deemed heretical.

If Darwin, Newton and Plank had been in the catholic world, they would have been fed to the flames and we would all be serfs working the fields in a tiny flat catholic world

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>>2983471
>Albertus Magnus
>Georgius Agricola
>Roger Bacon
>Durr dey'd burn dem

>>2983484
The world was still flat and tiny with those nobodies

>>2983471

You're strawmanning too hard, my guy.

>>2982598
Mongols ruined everything.

>>2983491
But it was a Catholic that first circumnavigated the globe, are you upset?

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>>2982598
>have their own version of a Protestan
so basically more fundamentalist?

>>2983506
Upset? How could I be, considering you catholics worship Darwin and his theory of evolution

>>2982628
thread....

>>2983512
Didn't you say we'd burn Darwin? You seem a little inconsistent

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>>2983471
guess who invented the big bang theory

>>2983471
>this is what protestants actually believe

>>2982620
>>2982623
>>2982632
>>2982701
>>2982755
>>2983413
>>2983421
>>2983484
>>2983524

kinda depends on where...English Protestantism and French Catholicism were generally pretty liberal when it came to new ideas (ergo the enlightenment stemming largely from those 2 countries). The 2 faiths in other regions wasn't so relaxed.

>>2982598

Islam already has a lot of versions and the 'french revolution' of islam came via sort of laicist regimes via arab/turkish nationalism (ataturk, assad, saddam, et al).

Unsurprisingly, the Protestant countries allied themselves with the hardcore islamist regimes represented by salafist-wahhabbist regimes of the yihad sheikhs and talibans to subvert and destroy the shia and laicist progressive arab regimes.

>>2983545

>puritans were pretty liberal

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>>2983566
> seven of 10 nucleus members of the Royal Society were Puritans. In the year 1663 sixty-two percent of the members of the Royal Society were similarly identified

>>2983421
>the Reformation was essentially a rational , democratic revolution
I have never in my life. Seen so much shit come out of one mouth.

>>2983774
It's a mind boggling position that sadly I've seen during these debates on Islam and liberalism. I think Ayaan Hirsi Ali is famous for it, calling for Islamic Reformation as if the Protestant one was some enlightenment movement bringing rights for minorities, secularism, liberation of women, etc.

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>>2983586

>100% of the lads in German Department for Advance Technological Research were nazis
>ergo, muh liberal progressive implications

>>2983774
You need to use a little more time researching your history - your understanding of the reformation is lacking.

The people of Europe (many of them at least) were ready for a reformation of Christianity, growing weary of the heavy burdens, both physical and spiritual, of Roman Catholicism. The sale of indulgences, supposedly guaranteeing the purchaser a pass into heaven; corrupt and venal priests screwing as much money and people as they could

Many contempories of Luther, including Erasmus and Calvin wanted a reform of the church

>>2983774
The Reformation was a reaction against the rampant, bureaucratic hedonism of the Catholic Church. The reason this analogy fails with Islam is because there is no centralizing authority to rebel against.

>>2982598

Yes, and they came up with the perfect solution to fix the flaws of a human institution like the Church: get rid of it and over it like a Nietzschean superman, establishing your own exclusive relationship with God, the only one you need to answer to.

Oh and ofc to your local congregation peeking out on you at the window to make sure you exhibit the proper conduct, the proper dressing code and abide to the uptight borderline fanatic socioreligious community standards set up by the community leaders, who also happen to define what goes and what does not go in your own particular relationship with god.

>what is jadid and ahmadiyya

>>2982620
Bullshit, Protestantism originated, because the English king wanted to marry while the pope fornade it so he wad like "nah kek imma make muh own Christianity with mah own church" and succeeded.

>>2983491
The world still is flat, just do your research on flatearthsociety.org. Be aware tho you'll never be able to climb back out of the rabbithole

>>2983471
Currently, they accept the Big Bang and evolution so your argument is moot. Not saying that refusing condoms isnt retarded tho

Test

>>2985039
>Protestantism originating in England
>Fucking anglo education

>>2983471
Newton was accepted by the Church. Galileo was only silenced for being a tactless prick.

Islam did have a reformation.

The scholarly consensus and interpretation built up over hundreds of years was rejected and the result was an even more violent and regressive and illiberal version of islam called salafism.

That's their reformation.

>>2985821
Well, if we ignore the fact that much of contemporary Wahabist/Salafist ideology has roots all the way back here: >>2982769, we can take a look at the development of Salafism as an ideology.

The basic idea is that "standing jurisprudence rulings may need overturned due to new research in the Islamic 'sciences' (i.e. historiography and text criticism, etc.).

At the dawn of the Salafi movement it was actually super pro western and sought to interface with rather than reject colonial forces, being more or less moderates, being Ashari rationalists.

However, it was not long until much of the Salafist movement was caught up in 'reinterpretation' as cause for increased violence, leading to the clusterfuck we have today.

Positing Salafism as the "evolutionary reform" movement ignores what came before the 1700's.

>>2983545
>>2983545
If you think Calvinism was enlightened, please take a look at the English Civil War. They banned Christmas and plays, and ransacked houses burning all religious art because they considered it idolatry

The Enlightenment in France came out of deists and Catholics

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>>2982619
>All these replies to such low effort bait

>>2985039
The CoE under Henry VIII was exactly the same as the Catholic Church, except he was the top banana instead of the Pope

>>2985847
what specifically about this contradicts what I've said?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdASqI_1sm4

Israel, Cold War, and Saudi Oil Money.

Islam has been sliding back since the fall of the Ottoman Empire.

>>2985921
Well the bit about it being THE reformation, and Salafism isn't INHERENTLY backward and violent and regressive...that's where it happened to wander.

Don't get get me wrong here, fuck contemporary Wahab and Qutb tinged Salafism, I'm on board there, but just like other schools of Islam with liberal roots or features, no matter how ignored or atrophied, there's potential to get somewhere with it; just incredibly few people doing it.

>>2983545
english protestants literally banned christmas because they thought it was pagan

>>2982703
what video is this from, I can't find it on memri.tv

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>>2982703
post more.

>>2986010
Well they were right.

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>>2986019

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>>2986090

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>>2986093

There are scores of various denominations within islam, some are quite modern and progressive

But remember that Christianity didn't evolve into the relatively benign form we know today until the 60's.
Wealth and education paved the way for christianity to have a lesser role in our society, it wasn't christendom that changed first

Protestants burned thousands of witches and the religious wars in Europe claimed tens of millions of lives

Islam appeals to my conservative interests of cultural unity and female control, yet i find myself hating it

Have i been brainwashed? By who?

>>2982624
How are people supposed to evolve if they're not free to try new things? What you call "degeneracy", I call a chance for progress. If people always hold to the same set of ideals instead of revising them in light of new information, that is the height of intransigence which leads to stagnation and, when the circumstances arise, death.

That said, there are no guarantees that a people who are given the freedom to choose their own way will come up with a better way than what's come before. But you see, we HAVE to be free to make those mistakes, or else we will never truly LEARN. Yes, there may be societal unrest and a certain collective uncertainty about the direction society is going, but these are the birth pangs of a better world. Sticking to the old ways forever will only see you washed away in time. The stiff tree breaks in the strong wind.

>>2986140
by your own ignorance

>>2986140
>Islam appeals to my conservative interests of cultural unity and female control, yet i find myself hating it
What if I told you the (admittedly now dead) Jariri school of Fiqh which flourished between Baghdad and modern day Turkey was what most of us would consider hyperliberal; women could preach, lead prayer, hold office, and tried to filter it's rulings to accommodate as many cultural variations as basic sharia would facilitate?

There's a lot of variety out in Islam. As a 'normal' conservative you'd probably get a kick out of the Koran only school that focus on historicity or maybe some of the mystical stuff which puts legalism etc., o the backseat in favor of contemplative practice.

>Have i been brainwashed? By who?
Yes and no, a lot of Islam sucks, man.
I dunno like fifteen hundred years of border conflicts on the edges of the "west".

>>2985039
Are you fucking retarded?

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>>2982598
>evolve and have their own version of a Protestant and/or French Revolution?

those thinks we not good.

Hopefully Islam doesn't modernize and fall to cultural marxism the way christianity did

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>>2982619
The reformation was an iconoclastic chimpout of the highest caliber.

The Catholic Church were the "liberals" then. All the memes about the strictness and "anti-science" of the Catholic Church was due to a rise in conservatism in response to the Protestants calling them degenerates.

Calvinism, Mennonitism, Zwinglism, and Anabaptism were all highly socially conservative movements that involved severe personal censure.

Go back 40 years before the Protestant reformation and you have Mirandola espousing non-Christian humanist ideas about being God if you want to, and no one cared.

>>2985057
They literally devised the Bing Bang theory