Tell me about Cesare Borgia

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>>2977695
Why does he wear the mask?

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The Spaniard lives?!

>>2977712
>>2977736
No memes

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>>2977712
he looks bog'd

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>>2977695
Brilliant politician and strategist who had the potential to recreate a true Italian kingdom, but he was too dependent on the good will and trust of his allies. If he was was wary enough to build his own political foundation in Italy and gather support that would directly back him a kingdom of Italy might have been created in the 1500s rather than in the 1800s.

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>>2977777
this must be the truth

>>2977695
A based guy that got fucked over

>>2977695
He had great taste in women.

>>2977777
quintessential quints confirms Cesare Borgia's übermensch status

>>2977712
Syphilis

>>2977777
Didn't he get fucked over because the new Pope stopped backing him?

>>2977777
>A Spaniard having to unify Italy
Kek. Either way he never had a chance. He totally relied on French support and Spain was going to buttfuck him in every possible scenario

>>2977912
>Kek. Either way he never had a chance. He totally relied on French support and Spain was going to buttfuck him in every possible scenario
Part of the reason why I said he should have gathered his own personal backing and not depend on foreign powers for support.

>>2977964
What backing? Not even all the city states put together could gather an army as big as France's or as good as Spain's

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>>2977842
Yeah, he originally had Pius III elected who would support him after the death of his father. Although, he would die a little under a month after his coronation and be replaced by pope Julius II, a rival and enemy of the Borgias. But he was still pretty bad ass, he was one of the last Popes to actually lead troops into battle.

Seems pretty based. too bad he killed his brother.

>>2977985
I knew that he had mainly got his support from the Pope, but what lands did he control personally?

>>2978249
The pope made him prince of the Romagnia and the French king made him Duke of valentiois making him a small duke of Valence France . But when Alex died he lost the title.

>>2977695
A literal God. He gets my dick hard.

>>2977806
is this an incest joke anon?

>>2977695
Cesare is my hisband

>>2977748
why?

>>2977777
Was he really spoiled and arrogant like in Ass Creed?

>>2977777

>he was too dependent on the good will and trust of his allies

How concretly could he have avoided that

"Political foundation" is too vague

>>2983402
Never met the guy.

>>2977695
He is the basis of the artistic impression of Jesus.

His father the pope popularised this inadvertently by commissioning papal works of art from leading artists of the day. This later spread to iconography, and the rest was history.

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>>2984717
it's sad that /his/ is such a toxic dump of leftism I don't even know if you're shitposting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depiction_of_Jesus

The earliest depiction of bearded Jesus was in the 300s. The oldest surviving Icon of Jesus is from the 600s. All many centuries earlier than borgia.

>>2984727
I think its just an interesting misconception/legend.

Still, they do look similar.

http://www.snopes.com/jesus-modeled-on-borgia/

>>2984717
>>2984727
>>2984740

Dumas claimed it.

>>2984727
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depiction_of_Jesus
what does thinking Cesare represents Jesus have to do with leftism specifically though? Either way, all these "depictions" are based on white males anyway. What does it matter if it was Cesare or some Germanic from the 600s( which is in your pic related). Sorry, I just didn't see the connection there.

How good was he as a military leader?

>>2984727
>People are talking about Cesare and depictions of Jesus.
>M-MUH LEFFISM!
What triggered your /pol/cuckery?

>>2984879
Looks more like a med or a jew than a germanic.

>>2984879
>some Germanic from the 600s

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_Pantocrator_(Sinai)

That image has nothing to do with Germans you retard and your post is a perfect example of the toxic leftism I was referring to. I'm gonna guess you're some retarded American who's never seen a real person from MENA and thinks having Brown hair, Brown eyes and light skin is impossible over there.
>>2984879
>>2984901
Like alot of leftism, the only reason such a baseless theory existed is to attack European Christendom.

>>2984740
They don't look THAT similar lol: compare OP's pic to any picture of Jesus.

>>2985396
That one was byzantine I believe. Mediterraneans are still white(inb4 /pol/ green text meme xD), which is why I'm still perplexed that anon saw it fit to make the fact people believe Cesare was used as a major image for Christ, at least from the 15th cent. onward, alone is race baiting politics. Nobles at the time didn't even care about muh white supremacy when they had their family depicted as religious figures, it was just wealth and influence.
Btw Wasn't Cesare technically a Mediterranean or at least of Iberian descent by most accounts?

>>2985555
That image is actually from Roman controlled Egypt.

>>2985555
Iberia is on the Mediterreanean, buddo.

>>2985513
Oh so you weren't that anon I just replied to..damn now I have to write that post all over.
Fine you're right here, it was Byzantine, Mediterranean basically. I mispoke, mostly because I was confused and frustrated at the lack of logic in your first post. You still don't get my point which is perplexing. Mediterraneans are still white/Caucasian(inb4 stupid pol green text meme that some how gets substituted as evidence)
Why do you see it fit to make the fact people( /his/ posters more importantly) believe Cesare was used as a major image for Christ, at least from the 15th cent. onward, alone is race baiting politics? If we were race baiting, it wouldn't matter if you pulled up your pic related or not.
Nobles in he 15th cent didn't even care about muh white supremacy when they had their family depicted as religious figures, it was just to show wealth and influence. Everyone here knows that. Though I'm not sure you really do...
Btw Wasn't Cesare technically a Mediterranean or at least of Iberian descent by most accounts?

>>2985571
>Roman controlled egypt
Weird when I reversed image searched, then searched up the actual title, it said eastern christian church were the original authors. Whatever, your "correction" just helps my point more, which may have been your goal I assume.

>>2985608
>eastern christian church
Like the ones found in Egypt and the Near East?

>>2985613
Alright, fine.

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>>2983446
Rather than depending on foreign kingdoms for his support he should of made more of an effort to draw more power from the city states and duchies inside of Italy and his own personal holding of Romagna. Though this would have been hard to do considering that he would still have had to gain a temporary alliance with France to leave his cardinal office and have it come to an end soon after that. Also, he would of had to draw his troops from papal soldiers, Condottieri, and possibly from other Italian states instead of relying on the French to provide him an army.

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>>2985555
Sorta, he was born in Rome as a bastard of the Spanish Cardinal Rodrigo Borja and to an Italian mistress, Vannozza dei Cattanei.

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>>2983402
Considering he most likely killed his own brother for political office after already being made a Cardinal, yeah he was probably spoiled and arrogant.

>>2985631
Imagine being a shit tier soldier and ending up fighting with a guy dressed like that.
What the fuck can you even do.

Stop arguing about Jesus and who's white please and stay on topic

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>>2985684
Like everyone else, use the weight of their armor against them and try to pin them to the ground while looking for a slit to stab your stiletto into.

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>The most alpha Italian in history
>He was actually a Spaniard

>>2985731
>Not Caesar

>>2985738
>Ceasar
>Autistic
>Skinny
>Homosexual (most likely)
>Didn't take a Gaul qtie as wife
Borgia
>Chad Thundercock
>Looks like fucking Jesus
>Impregnated half of Italy and Navarre
>Didn't give a single half

>>2985754
>Borgia
>Waah please help me Pope you've given me land but I still need more help
>Caesar
>Sees Gaul
>Takes it

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>>2985754
>mixing superior Latin genes with Celts

>>2985687
The only idiot whoever brought up racebaiting was this freaking retard here. >>2984727
I'm not even sure if he was /pol/baitng or just really likes to make assumptions.
the rest of us are not retarded enough to think that Italians at the time were white supremacists trying to keep "le black people down"( who they barely interacted with to on a daily basis btw).
>>2985659
Oh, I thought Vennozza was also Spanish; that's the last time I glean the slightest bit of historical knowledge from watching a historical drama.

>>2985854
You have poor reading comprehension. >>2984717 claimed borgia was the artistic inspiration and >>2984727
Said it wasn't. I see nothing about Blacks, Whites or race in their posts. >>2984879 was the first person to bring up race.

>>2985854
>taking any part of a tv series as fact

Americans everyone.

>>2985754
>The measure of a man is how many chicks he can fuck and how many baby mommas he has
I too remember high school, anon.
Besides, even in that category Caesar isn't far behind. Wasn't he known for fucking around with Senator's wives too? Plus Ceasar had Servilia as a mistress so at most he was bi.
Who cares anyway? Ceasar was a fucking genius and Cesare(his name was derived from that btw) wishes he could be half of what Ceasar was. thank goodness most of us have left the caveman age unlike you.

His face was used as a model to paint 15th cent depictions of Christ like many other nobles at the time, what of it? You're obviously late to this thread considering that myth has been debunked.

>>2985867
>His face was used as a model to paint 15th cent depictions of Christ like many other nobles at the time,
Proof with citation?

>>2985856
He was referencing race baiting by the left. I was just pointing out why he was wrong and no one was doing that in the first place because it would make no sense. In the end, he is the only one here who started bringing in [modern]politics of any kind. No one here wanted to make Jesus' depiction by Cesare political outside of the culture of that time.

>>2985886
>He was referencing race baiting by the left.
Perhaps he was just referencing faulty leftist revisionist Historiography? The fact your mind immediately went to race (black and white no less) seems more insecurity on your part.

>>2985867
>The measure of a Chad is how many chicks he can fuck and how many baby mommas he has
Fixed

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>>2985870
What I meant was, often, Nobles at the time, especially Popes, commissioned artist to use their family as subjects for paintings of religious figures( Saints, Jesus, Mary). Pope Alexander was most known for this, yes, but You want proof of this?
>The patron specified what he or she wanted: what the subject was, which figures were to be included, often what other works the new work might resemble or surpass.
http://italianrenaissanceresources.com/units/unit-8/essays/introduction/
http://www.kleio.org/en/history/famtree/vip/222/?gallery

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>>2985915
>Chad
So you think this "Chad" was more alpha than Caesar on such a basis?
kek Chad...
Sorry, I personally have a hard time imagining this stereotype/meme of people named "chad" being sexy badasses and womanizers. The only Chad I ever knew was a total dork in middle school. He got me into based Yotsuba though so at least there is that.

>>2986021
Caesar wasn't alpha at all.He achieved a lot but he wasn't alpha

>>2985899
>insecurity
Huh? Nice projection there. I clearly wasn't angry about anything. I was simply confused about how he got to any of that? What is wrong with you politics fags? We really can't have any type of discussion without people bringing in modern left and right bullshit.
Why does it have to be leftist was my point? Why couldn't it have been just a common historical misconception he was trying to correct? That's what I really don't get. Hence the only way I could make sense of this strange accusation was identity politics related to depictions of historical figures that happen to be brought up back and forth on this board( mainly by people on the alt right, nonetheless) often ripe with [modern]political terms like left, right, racism, sjw etc.

>>2986031
Oh so you don't agree with that, pathetic excuse of a man that was, anon? Alright, I wasn't sure at first. But yeah if any one was close to autistic it was Cesare not Ceasar. He was nearly a sociopath to be honest, if not a complete Narcissist. Still interesting to study none the less.

>>2986080
>He was nearly a sociopath to be honest, if not a complete Narcissist
CHad

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>it's been 575 days since the last chapter of Cesare was translated

>>2987251
What the fuck? What is this? Why?
I don't like this. I will stick to Borgia on netflix.

>>2987263
>Borgia
I hope you meant The Borgias otherwise you're making a big mistake.

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>>2987263
A manga about Cesare as a teen. Give it a whirl.

>>2987336
The Borgias on Showtime is very nice looking and every performance is great(Jeremy as Pope Alex is amazing) but it's basically fanfiction. There is hardly any historical accuracy. The only thing I like is Cesare killing Juan, which I think is more likely what happened unlike the European version.
The Euroversion has better accuracy and focuses on certain characters more like the Farnesse's.

>>2987418
Don't like the dialogue. Either the translation is shit or the writing is shit. Can't tell. I don't want anime messing up one of my favorite stories for me. I think I'll pass.

>>2983402
The AssCreed portrayal of the Borgias is pretty fucking shit. It's like they took the salacious shit and then decided they needed to sleaze it up even more. The chargs of incest and all of that shit all pretty much come from Julius II who was mad that he got out-bribed and also was a literal faggot himself.

The Italians really, really hated the idea of a Spanish Pope. Even started passing around the idea that Alexander himself was actually a secret Jew because he showed relative tolerance towards them.

>>2987263
Do yourself a favor and read it. There's some kind of homo undertones (mainly from the OC towards Cesare) but it's incredibly minor and nothing terrible. The author works with an actual Rensaissance scholar to make sure details are accurate and the art is absolutely gorgeous.

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>>2988972
Also if it's any indication, she got comissioned by whatever organization it is that takes care of Versailles to do a story about Marie Antoinette and, again, was working with people there to make sure everything was historically accurate. Sadly it hasn't been translated from French yet.

>>2985717
>weight of their armor
I want this meme to die

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>>2986031
>Caesar
>not alpha

>>2989017
So much did the armor actually weigh then

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>>2989264
Nothing at all!

>>2988205
There's very little "anime" about it, but your loss.

>>2988993
looks very neat

>>2988972
I don't care about actual homosexual undertones. It's homo anime undertones that bother me if you catch my drift. A lot of anime story telling and dialogue, and ESPECIALLY comedy is just stupid and gay but fine, maybe I will give it a shot.