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Ancient and Prehistory eras General

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Thread replies: 96
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Let's talk about the reeeaaally old shit guys.
I've got a particular interest in Indus Valley and Sumerian civilizations (picrelated) from the chalcolithic age and back, but anything up to the Bronze age is fair game. I'll start by gushing about one of my all-time favorite cities.
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I'm pretty sure Sumeria and the IVC were both Bronze Age, not Chalcolithic.

Is it true that the Indus Valley lacked warfare?
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>>297069
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>>297069
I've heard from Egyptologists that the population of the entirety of Egypt in 3500BC was 4,000 people.

Cities in the Middle East had more people.
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Mohenjo-motherfucking-Daro.

In the 19th Century BCE these bastards had indoor baths and heating, uniform brick laying, and urban planning, with cities built on a grid whose axis lined up with the winds for cooling. And even the possibility of multi story buildings.

between all these facts, combined with a distinct scarcity of weapons and fortification, (which suggests either a lack of war or centrality in a larger cohesive administration) I can't help but imagine that somebody in ancient Pakistan had some serious kind of vision. Like if this civilization hadn't mysteriously declined how far would they have continued to advance? Or at least what if practices like indoor heating and plumbing and civil engineering had become prevalent throughout the world four thousand years ago? What would human civilization look like by now?
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>>297105


Eridu founded in 5400BC

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eridu#History
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>>297105
see >>297157

It's a bit of a leap to say there was non at all. But we barely found any weapons in Mohenjo and Harappa, along with a lack of city fortifications like walls suggests that they were at least not expecting to be attacked. Then again we also don't know why the whole damn civilization collapsed so it's possible they didn't have warfare.. until warriors came and killed every one of them.
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>>297157
At the same time Minoans were creating Frescoes for the Egyptians.
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>>297105
They both made it into the Bronze age, but their origins run much deeper
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>>297167
And here I was still thinking Uruk was the OG city
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>>297188
Yeah but they were still shitting in holes, as much of Europe would continue to do well into medieval times, but the greeks still get credited with the foundation of modern civilization.
Sorry, the Minoans were fascinating too, euro-centrism just rustles every last one of my jimmies. The middle east in particular is severely underrated right now.
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>>297201
Looks like they got very efficient at building, then just decided to leave it and build a better city at Uruk and elsewhere.
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>>297240
do I smell slave labor?...
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>>297239
>Sorry, the Minoans were fascinating too, euro-centrism just rustles every last one of my jimmies.
The Minoans were Indo Europeans you stupid faggot.
> http://www.livescience.com/31983-minoans-were-genetically-european.html
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It's mindblowing to know neolithic Yangshao people were already raising silkworms and producing silk fabric. This was a time when many people were still learning how to spin and knit yarn, or even just discovering domesticated sheep.
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>>297254
Wait what's your point? Are you faulting me for lumping Minoans in with European history in general?
if so, then, in the words of your own link:
>The Minoans, the builders of Europe's first advanced civilization, really were European
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>>297282
Go to hell you fucking nigger.
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>>297297
u wot m8
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>>297268
Oh shit it goes back that far? got any specific years? I always feel like I should know more about the ancient far East, based animistic religions and lotsa philosophical schools are based.
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>>297282
>Minoans
>Builders of Europe's first advanced civilization.
That's cute.
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>>297318
You heard me, loud and clear.
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>>297297
Dude you have entirely lost me. I would genuinely like to understand what it was about my posts that got you mad. Curse all you want, but please, throw a coherent explicit point in there somewhere for me to work with.
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>>297331

>>297239
> euro-centrism just rustles every last one of my jimmies.
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>>297324
>Irish
>civilisation
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>>297324
Yeah I can't help but think that that article itself wasn't written by an actual historian. Probably just a journalist exaggerating to make his subject seem more relevant. It's not hard to just throw a "one of the" in front of statements like that just to cover your ass academically.
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>>297342
What is your point exactly???? I just came here to learn.....
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>>297342
Lugal is a Sumerian word for leader.
and that picture is a sculpture of some Neo-Sumerian leader.

I still have no idea what you are trying to say, or what these things have to do with Eurocentrism or with feeling an aversion thereof.
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>>297319
Apparently, they found a piece that could be as much as 5600 years old and was a part of a burial shroud, the Yangshao culture spanned 5000-3000 BC.
By 2000 BC they had essentially perfected silk production techniques, so there weren't significant improvement between, say, the Shang and Ming dynasties.
http://en.chinasilkmuseum.com/activities/detail_183.html
Of course the Yangshao practiced other crafts as well.

This book has fairly good summary of prehistoric textiles in general, but it's Western focused:
https://books.google.fr/books?id=HnSlynSfeEIC&printsec=frontcover
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>>297254
>correlates gene spread with language spread
>thinks European DNA is the same as IE DNA
>doesn't know that contrary to the meme Linear A is readable because of its similarity to Linear B and records an indigenous, non-IE language
>on top of that, calls him a stupid faggot

no u
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So what's the latest word on how old the oldest settlement in the Americas is? And has any evidence been found that Polynesians settled the west coast of South America? It doesn't seem like a stretch, considering they hopped all the way to Hawaii and Easter island.
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>>297382
>and that picture is a sculpture of some Neo-Sumerian leader.
Wrong

It comes from the city were Lugal Anne Mundu centered his capital of an Empire that ruled over the 4 quarters of the known world. From Elam to Cicilia, through Ebla and the Levant. 2500BC
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>>297331
This is the schizophrenic guy who posts about Afroasiatic all the time. Ignore him.
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>>297402
Yeah I'd like to tell myself that this guy is just trolling for some bad reason.

AAAAaaanywho, >>297396
THIS SHIT is crazy. I'm imagining some prehistoric Asian dude just fucked around with silkworms all his life, figured out the process, and changed all of Asian history for thousands of years to come.
Crazy to think that we literally factory farm worms now.
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>>297407
Fuck, that's what I get for taking the word of the first result of a backwards image search.

Thanks man. Do you know which city? I found a site saying that the head is from Adab but I don't know what to believe anymore.
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>>297402

> “About 9,000 years ago, there was an extensive migration of Neolithic humans from the regions of Anatolia that today comprise parts of Turkey and the Middle East. At the same time, the first Neolithic inhabitants reached Crete. Our mitochondrial DNA analysis shows that the Minoan’s strongest genetic relationships are with these Neolithic humans, as well as with ancient and modern Europeans,”

I've read a recent paper that shows evidence that the eastern Minoans spread Indo European language, if you go to "google scholar" you may find it.
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>>297411
kek, thanks, good to know.

Anybody else hoping they live long enough for us to decipher the Indus script? I really want to know where all the advanced civil engineering was coming from. I feel like since they were trading with Sumerians and we can read cuneiform there's still a possibility we can find some comparable samples...
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>>297426
>Adab
Yes
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>>297402
>contrary to the meme Linear A is readable because of its similarity to Linear B and records an indigenous, non-IE language
sauce?
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>>297405
There was a recent study which found the oldest american tools at the Monte Verde site

http://www.iflscience.com/editors-blog/archaeologists-uncover-earliest-stone-tools-americas

up to 18,000 years old
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>>297411
AD Hominem?

R1B spread the Chadic language, reality is coming crashing down all around you.
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>>297405
And it seems like the Polynesians at least made it to South America, not sure about settling there however

>The sweet potato was grown in Polynesia before western exploration. Sweet potato has been radiocarbon-dated in the Cook Islands to 1000 AD, and current thinking is that it was brought to central Polynesia around 700 AD, possibly by Polynesians who had traveled to South America and back, and spread across Polynesia to Hawaii and New Zealand from there.[13][14] It is possible, however, that South Americans brought it to the Pacific
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>>297347
The article basically says that the Minoans came from Anatolia in the Neolithic, just like most southeast Europeans did. That isn't really anything surprising. The article is misleading because it says 'Europeans' as if they were one homogeneous group, when really southwest Europeans are closer to Anatolians than the likes of the British.

The idea that they spoke Indo-European is based on the Anatolian hypothesis, which claims that Indo-European came from Anatolia with farmers rather than from the steppes, which is generally unsupported. So no, there really isn't any evidence that they spoke Indo-European.
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>>297476
>>297469
>>297455
>>297440
>>297396
>>297407
>>297167
Dang you guys... this is exactly what I was hoping for when I started this thread.
I'm starting to think this board is gonna be alright.
(Now if we can just insert this level of civil discourse into the religion threads)
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>>297167
It was just a village at that point though. Cities, states, literacy, and civilization in general didn't appear in Sumer until the Late Uruk period, around 3400 BC, or about the start of the Bronze Age.

They might have had a little overlap with the late Chalcolithic, but they were a Bronze Age civilization overall.
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I've always loved the fact that beer is present in almost literally all of human history. Like the fact that the alcohol made it more sanitary than river water and its high calorie content meant that, from the slaves to the high priests, everyone in mesopotamia and egypt was just getting tipsy since childhood.
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>>297069

> reeeaaally old shit guys
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>>297581
Shoulda posted an aids in the pool meme, coulda hijacked this whole thread into an oldfag thread straight outta /b/ ya goof.
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>>297559
Around 4000BC though, it was quite a city amongst the ancient world, considering >>297153
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>>297405
Like someone else said, Monte Verde is around 18,000 years old, and it's in Chile. The current thinking is that people started coming over on boats, possibly following sea mammals or kelp beds, possible around 25,000 years ago. This is all pretty recent, so I'm not sure how easy it would be to find public articles that talk about it. It's also pretty hard to research in general, because the earliest sites in North America would all be underwater by this point.

As far as the Polynesians go, there's evidence they reached South America. But, it would have been very recent, possibly just before Europeans started showing up. They didn't seem to have had much of an impact of the communities they would have encountered.
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>>297569
Wine is oldest though, it is the natural alcoholic drink of man, and beast.
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>>297664
There's older sources of alcohol still.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Axur5W83znw&index=2&list=RDlVfZngr9aFo
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>>297688
Yes! I was just about to link to that silliness.
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>>297688
I've heard stories of deer and moose in canada getting drunk on fermented apples and wandering into towns, getting stuck in stores, and generally wrecking shit.
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>>297688

That's what I meant.
>>297664
>natural alcoholic drink of man, and beast.
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>>297711
I heard the same of elephants. Apparently, they can smell ethanol from really far away.
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>>297750
crazy cave lickin' bastards..
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Injecting some ancient into this thread.

35,000 BC, a time when tmblr fat chicks would've felt right at home.
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>>297664
>No dost on Sardinia
Sa Osa, Orroli and other sites on the island with wines dating back to 1400 bc
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>>297901
Make a complaint to wikipedia, that's where I ripped that from.
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>>297157
>BCE
More like BAL (Before Ayy Lmaos), amirite?
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>>297870
appreciate that bruv.
Göbekli Tepe anyone?
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>>297282
Seems like he misread your post and thought you implied that Minoans weren't European. Or he's just retarded. I think it's both though.
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>>298376
I like to think so too.
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Anyone know anything about the Nuragic civilization? I've been on a kick and would like some information.
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>>298408
Holy shit, that has got to be one of the most beautiful wikipedia pages I've ever seen. What a majestic land...
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>>297870
I'd still hit it.
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>>298408
Related to Scandinavians through metallurgy and designs.
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>>297157
>motherfucking
> BCE
>ancient Pakistan
>mysteriously declined
Jesus christ, reddit the history post, doesnt even know anything about them passed what he learned in hs
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>>297239
I'm the opposite, i think prehistory Europe doesn't get enough attention.
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>>299134
Consider suicide or contribute
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>>297105

Persepolis was constructed without fortifications to symbolize the size and might of the empire, that it had enough strategic depth (basically fortified cities surrounding) that the capital would not require walls.

There were thousands of urban centers in the Indus Valley civilization. Maybe it's possible that cities in the interior wouldn't require fortifications of any sort but that the periphery might host some garrison?

Were they actually all under a single kingdom or were they completely autonomous?
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>>297405

MONTE VERDE
O
N
T
E

V
E
R
D
E
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Ishango bone is bretty gool
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>>299184

Dolovera had walls, although I'm not sure if the purpose was for fortification.

Some of its brick walls were 15m high. They must have used them to divide something
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>>299184

it's also possible that, if attacked, the people of the city could simply take their belongings and temporarily house up in the central walled citadels for the duration of the "siege"

although there should presumably be weapons if that were the case.
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>>299275

it's not true that no weapons have been found.

there are blades / spear tips / arrows forged from bronze.

although these could have simply been tools or used for hunting as well.
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>>298783
True, they have found out that most of the copper in Scandinavia's bronze age weapons came from Sardinia and Iberia.

>>298408
Yeah, they have found out during the last years that they did adopt some kind of script, at least in the later period.

For instance pic related was proved to be autentic through Thermoluminescence dating, it dates back to 800 bc.
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>>298408
>>300027
So are they related to the Sea People? It's worth noting they have found similar headdresses on statues.
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>>300190
Compare here
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>>300210
>>300190
The Italian guy always states they were the Sherden.
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>>297167
Isn't Ur even older? I read about these cities in Zacharia Sitchin's books about annunaki. I ignored the aliens part but ancient cites and their development were incredibly interesting
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>>297069
>Indians back in Mohenjo-daro poo in loo
>Indians today don't poo in loo
What happened to sewage systems in India over all those years?
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>>297157
>ancient Pakistan
TRIGGERED
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>>300517
>What happened to sewage systems in India over all those years?
It got overwhelmed by hundreds of millions of indians moving to the cities.
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>>300523
Calm your tit nigger maybe he's just providing a modern point of reference for people unfamiliar with the area.
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>>300190
Possibly, they could have been one of the sea people tribes, they've also found Nuragic pottery in the eastern med which dates back to the time the sea people were rampaging there, they have even found Nuragic pottery in a site labeled as a sea people site in Cyprus.
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>>297239
What? Literally no real historian thinks anything other than the Indus River Valley and the Ubadians/Sumerians were the first civilizations. Am I missing something? Name one who doesn't think that. A bunch of white kids yelling about their Vikings doesn't change actual archeology.

The only reason Greece was thought to be the cradle of civilization for so long was they didn't know about Sumer. It's now obvious everything the Greeks did was just an extension of Egyptian, Babylonian, and Sumerian thought.
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>>301668
>anything other than the Indus River Valley and the Ubadians/Sumerians
Egyptians and Sumerians were around long before the IVC.
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>>297069
I ONCE READ A ARTICLE THAT SAID THAT CITIES IN THE INDUS VALLEY HADE THE SAME POPULATION DENSITY AS THE AVERAGE MODERN CITY

CRAZY ASS SHIT RIGTH?!
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>>297157
TO BAD THEY COULDENT FIGURE OUT THAT SALT IS BAD FOR THE FARM SOIL
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>>297324
IRISH WHERE SOME CRAZY MOFOS

THEY EVEN THEORIZED AND MADE MODELS FOR THE PLATONIC SOLIDS 4000 YEARS BEFORE PLATOS DAD EVER GOT A HARDON

ACTUALLY SCRATCH THAT THEY WHERE MADE BY SCOTTS
BTFO IRISH CUNTS
>>
Hey, what time did Homo sapiens make it to Germany? Because if they didn't come until a bit later, it's highly likely that Neanderthals made this.

Making them a bunch of furfags.
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>>297569
Same with psychedelics like DMT and psilocybin. Across the board every culture that had access to them thought of them as god given gift and an entheogen. That is, until psilocybin was outlawed in 1968.
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>>302222
Around 40000 BC.

It might be Neanderthal, but I think it would be pretty wishful thinking to say that the only known piece of complex Neanderthal art just happened to be made at the same time humans arrived.
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>>297239
>The middle east in particular is severely underrated right now.
That may be because it's full of crazed extremist assholes who are actively trying to destroy all physical remnants of having once had a strong and productive culture.
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>>302612
True. Then again, the Denisovans had some advanced art (jade bracelets), so why not the Neanderthals?
Thread posts: 96
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