The spread of the Proto-Indo-Europeans

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>a fucking horse chariot
can't make this shit up

>>2954457
They also invented chariots and were the first to domesticate horses. They were also a fierce-like warrior group that raided and fought in those chariots.

we wuz aryans n shit. slava ukraine cyki!

>>2954440
>This is spread of the Proto-Indo-Europeans (Aryans)
The Indo-Iranics are the only ones called "Aryan."

God, 70+ years since Hitler, that term is still being abused.

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>>2954440

1. "PROTOINDOEUROPEAN", AND "ARYAN", ARE NOT MUTUAL SYNONYMS; THE FORMER TERM IS A LINGUONYM; THE LATTER TERM IS A RACIONYM, AND A CULTURONYM.

2. IT IS NOT CERTAIN WHERE IS THE URHEIMAT OF THE ORIGINAL ARYANS, BUT WHAT IS CERTAIN IS THAT THEY DID NOT ORIGINATE IN THE CAUCASUS; DO YOU KNOW WHO ORIGINATED IN THE CAUCASUS? ASHKENAZI JEWS; THAT ZONE CONSISTS OF STEPPES, WHICH IS THE GEOGRAPHY IN WHICH TURANIANS THRIVE, WHILST ARYANS THRIVE IN VALLEYS, AND RIVERINE ZONES;THAT ZONE IS KHAZARIA, NOT THE ARYAN URHEIMAT.

>>2954500
its not being abused, at first it was thought that aryan was a self designation synonymous with proto indo european. it was later discovered only iranians were calling themselves that. I personally still use it when i dont feel like typing out pie and to trigger people on message boards

>>2954475

>they also domesticated the horse
https://phys.org/news/2017-04-precision-chronology-mongolia-nomadic-horse.html

>>2954682
please ban this moron already. he ruins every thread that has the slightest relation to Indo-European.

>>2954700

1. IRANIANS WERE NOT THE ONLY PEOPLE TO CALL THEMSELVES ARYANS.

2. IRANIANS USED TO —AND STILL DO, TO SOME DEGREE— CALL THEMSELVES ARYANS ("AIRYA"), BECAUSE THEY WERE/ARE AN ARYAN PEOPLE, BUT THAT DOES NOT ENTAIL THAT ONLY IRANIANS WERE, OR ARE, ARYAN; THE ORIGINAL ARYANS SPREAD WORLDWIDE, AND MISCEGENATED, THUS, ARYAN GENOTYPE IS PRESENT IN INDIVIDUALS FROM VARIOUS ETHNICITIES AROUND THE WORLD, AND IN VARIATED DEGREES, NOT ONLY AMONG IRANIANS.

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>>2954440
This isn't a discussion.
This is just some migration info dump.
Come back with a topic people can discuss.

>>2954711
Ban him for what? How is he "ruining" threads?
You just seem mad at something petty in particular...
Hmmm, I wonder what it could be...

Can someone tell me about the Vedic religion. From what I know, it's a precursor to Hinduism which is mix between the Indo-European Vedic/Aryan beliefs and Davadian beliefs. Stuff like what their pantheon is like and how it lines up to other Indo-European ones such as the Greeks or Germanics.

>>2954440
Only Indo-Iranics and Proto-Indo-Iranics are "Aryans". You can not lump that term with other PIE groups.

White people did everything

>>2954783
>PIE
>white
pick one

>>2954714
Who else called themselves Aryan?

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>Central Asia will never be Persian-speaking again

>>2954682
Fuck off namefag, no one cares what you think.

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>>2954440
Okay? Is there a specific purpose to this thread?

>>2954786
IEs only became "white" when they blanda'd up with local non-IEs in Europe and Asia.

>>2955051
wow you're retarded

>PIE are slightly darker than modern Europeans
>HURR

>>2954803
The Sanskrit-speaking people's that settled North India. In fact the references in the Vedas are where everyone got this hardon about Aryans (that and finding svastikas all around).

Basically the Indo-Iranians (Aryans) split into two groups: the Iranics and the Indo-Aryans.

Should probably mention that these are ethno-linguistic groups and not the weird autistic fantasy Supermen that Gobineau and Hitler believed in.

>>2954682
While a steppe was indeed used by herders, western Russia and Ukraine contains the most fertile soil in the world known as Chernozem, so I'm sure some of them would have been farmers at the time. In fact Ukraine was known as the breadbasket of Europe during World War II. The reason for their migration could have even been because of a feud due to herders gaining control of the land f.e., they left and went further south and east. So this doesn't contradict a steppe origin.

Khazars originated further east in Mongolia and just settled in the Caucaus more than 2,000 years after the Aryan expansion, so that isn't relevant whatsoever.
In addition, the oldest swastika ever discovered was in Ukraine.

>>2954803
The only ones that called themselves Aryan were Indians. Aryans simply meant "the noble" not "white power".

>>2954682
Ashkenazis didnt originate in the caucasus you dumbfuck, they barely held it and their focus were on the steppes norther from it

>>2954739
The earliest of the Vedas (the Rigveda) had a much larger emphasis on rituals. Basically the idea is that in order to reach the higher realm the proper rituals must be performed for you (often involving sons) generation after generation. So you can imagine the priestly class was pretty important. These rituals are supposed to be based in the way the gods originally sacrificed the primordial cosmic Man to in order to create the universe. So they're pretty important.

These rituals were actually the original meaning of the concept of karma (which means action). Only later was it generalized from ritual action to all action.

The fire sacrifice was especially important (there's a whole thing about the heat/energy of the fire being the same heat that is within you). And now 4000 years later look how widespread cremation is in India.

So as for the Pantheon there's Agni (fire) who I just mentioned. Indra, who is heavily associated with Zeus. Soma, both a ritual drink and the moon deity. And many others.

As for connection to other Indo-European religions I'm not so expert but I can tell you that there are a lot of parallels in the deities (for example Zeus, Indra, and Thor are big time gods and they all carry lightning-esque weapons).

I can go into more detail on any of these (except the connection to other religions unfortunately) so do you have any questions?

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>>2955291
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_peoples

>The term Iran derives directly from Middle Persian Ērān and Parthian Aryān. The Middle Iranian terms ērān and aryān are oblique plural forms of gentilic ēr- (in Middle Persian) and ary- (in Parthian), both deriving from Old Persian ariya-, Avestan airiia-, and Proto-Iranian arya-.

>Unlike the Sanskrit ā́rya- (Aryan), the Old Iranian term has solely an ethnic meaning. Today, the Old Iranian arya- remains in ethno-linguistic names such as Iran, Alan, Ir, and Iron.

>In royal Old Persian inscriptions, the term arya- appears in three different contexts:

>As the name of the language of the Old Persian version of the inscription of Darius I in the Bistun Inscription.
>As the ethnic background of Darius the Great in inscriptions at Rustam Relief and Susa (Dna, Dse) and the ethnic background of Xerxes I in the inscription from Persepolis (Xph).
>As the definition of the God of Iranians, Ohrmazd, in the Elamite version of the Bistun Inscription.

>The trilingual inscription erected by the command of Shapur I gives a more clear description. The languages used are Parthian, Middle Persian, and Greek. In Greek inscription says "ego ... tou Arianon ethnous despotes eimi", which translates to "I am the king of the kingdom (nation) of the Iranians". In Middle Persian, Shapur says "ērānšahr xwadāy hēm" and in Parthian he says "aryānšahr xwadāy ahēm".

>>2955392
>The Avesta clearly uses airiia- as an ethnic name (Videvdat 1; Yasht 13.143–44, etc.), where it appears in expressions such as airyāfi daiŋˊhāvō ("Iranian lands"), airyō šayanəm ("land inhabited by Iranians"), and airyanəm vaējō vaŋhuyāfi dāityayāfi ("Iranian stretch of the good Dāityā"). In the late part of the Avesta (Videvdat 1), one of the mentioned homelands was referred to as Airyan'əm Vaējah which approximately means "expanse of the Iranians". The homeland varied in its geographic range, the area around Herat (Pliny's view) and even the entire expanse of the Iranian plateau (Strabo's designation).

>The Old Persian and Avestan evidence is confirmed by the Greek sources. Herodotus, in his Histories, remarks about the Iranian Medes that "Medes were called anciently by all people Arians" (7.62). In Armenian sources, the Parthians, Medes and Persians are collectively referred to as Iranians. Eudemus of Rhodes (Dubitationes et Solutiones de Primis Principiis, in Platonis Parmenidem) refers to "the Magi and all those of Iranian (áreion) lineage". Diodorus Siculus (1.94.2) considers Zoroaster (Zathraustēs) as one of the Arianoi.

>Strabo, in his Geographica, mentions the unity of Medes, Persians, Bactrians and Sogdians:

>The name of Ariana is further extended to a part of Persia and of Media, as also to the Bactrians and Sogdians on the north; for these speak approximately the same language, with but slight variations —Geography, 15.8

>All this evidence shows that the name Arya was a collective definition, denoting peoples who were aware of belonging to the one ethnic stock, speaking a common language, and having a religious tradition that centered on the cult of Ohrmazd.

>>2955392
>>2955395

t. Ali Reza Cuckani

>>2955392
tl;dr Iranians didn't call themselves aryan, never did historically nor currently. They called themselves Iranian currently and Eran historically.

Nice mental gymnastics tho.

>>2956235
>Not reading the whole post

>>2954811
Was it ever?

Why are shitskins constantly mad and unaccepting that they're merely servents and inferior to euros

>>2956715
That's a retarded question.

>>2956734
That's not even a question because it doesn't even have a question mark.

>>2956715
That's a good question

>>2954709
>A key article published this month in Nature argues that nomadic movement patterns shaped the early trans-Eurasian trade networks that would eventually move goods, people, and information across the continent.

Can someone link to the article? I'm on my phone and I feel handicapped

>>2956734
t.shleecklahaifa boriwitz

>>2954440
Reminder that current Iraqis are larpers

>>2954709
? Your article doesn't prove him wrong. It shows that horses were present in Mongolia 1200BC. Horses were domesticated earlier on Eurasian steppe 3500BC. They very well could acquired those horses from Andronovo culture which appeared in 2000BC and is thought to be eastern extension of Corded Ware culture.

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Reminder that people who identify as Aryans are LARPers

>>2957813
Yeah you're right non whites should cut the crap and just resume their shitskin tasks

>>2956715
>>2958451
>making it about race

you /pol/tards are mentally ill

>>2958681
>"im a virgin because of pol and krauts"
You faggots are literally no different from stormcucks

What the hell happened to Tocharian?

>>2955051

>and Asia

What?

Anyway, "white" places like Germany, Sweden and Ireland were inhabited by Sardinian like people with black hair and tan skin before IEs.
Europe was largely a brown town, not a white town. Whiteness is a very modern social construct with no prehistorical applications since everyone is so mixed.

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>>2959453
>by Sardinian like people

So... white?

>>2959299
XIONGNUED

>>2959459

>cherrypicking

Sardinians have almost 99% frequency of dark hair and the majority of them have tan skin. The same logic which supposedly excludes PIE from "whiteness" must also exclude Sardinians.

No way around that. It's a fairytale that there existed white looking people anywhere before the metal ages when ethnic mixing created the phenotype and social or other selection favored it.

>>2959480
> 99% frequency of dark hair

If you include light brow hair as dark hair maybe.

And Neolithic Hungarians genetically identical to Sardinians turned out to be blonde.

>the majority of them have tan skin

Sardinians are lighter than Andalusians skinwise, who are considered whites and came up with the term white themselves.

>>2959499

I've seen a blond Sardinian girl. It doesn't mean anything. The allele frequencies for their hair color is heavily on the darker side and they nor any Neolithic pop can be compared to modern day Nordic people with majority blond hair, nor British people with ~97% pale skin.
Selection during the metal ages created these phenotypes.

>>2959299
Extinguished

>>2955101
You are retarded. PIE were swarthy as fuck.

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>>2954682
>>2954714
>Mfw the only sane person in this thread is the board's resident loon.

>>2960379
>swarthy
that's not saying much, why are you being deliberately vague?

http://www.eupedia.com/genetics/yamna_culture.shtml#Phenotypes

>Yamnayan DNA tested by Haak (2015), Wilde (2014), Mathieson (2015) showed that Yamna people (or at least the few elite samples concerned) had predominantly brown eyes, dark hair, and had a skin colour that was moderately light, lighter than Mesolithic Europeans, but somewhat darker than that of the modern North Europeans.

somewhat darker than modern Europeans, wow.

>>2960398
t.samefag

>>2954739
>>2955364
>Only later was it generalized from ritual action to all action.

It means actions specifically in regards to intent or mental volition. Ritual magic is about directing the will in the right way to elicit a desired result, thats basically what karma meant in the vedic context. The significance of rituals are symbolic, rituals are actually mental or at least, thats what ritualism was originally about. They did perform an outer, physical ritual but efficacy of the ritual comes from the will of the practitioner. Later ritualism became about rituals in the more exoteric sense, that is, literally performing physical actions with the right physical proprs, in the same way over and over again, almost just for the sake of doing it.

What karma probably originally meant was not just ritual action, but any action performed for the purpose of generating a result from it, like work or hunting. Ie anything done with a will, it is the mind of the individual which knows that performing specific actions will have a later result.

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>>2954682
>It's a "European Jews are Khazars" episode.

>>2959453

wait a second...you actually believe that the only people who inhabited northern europe before the IE migrations were sardinians? fucking lol. Sardinians aren't brown either, not like arabs or indians anyway. They are about as brown or white as italians, so they are and were what most people would consider to be white

>>2960762

Not a matter of belief. They were of the same descent.

>>2954711
>>2954814
>>2955266
>>2955297

You realize that by replying, YOU are the dopes? HE has severe mental retardation, what's YOUR excuse?

>>2954739
>Stuff like what their pantheon is like and how it lines up to other Indo-European ones such as the Greeks or Germanics

Not too different in generalities but quite distinct in terms of the specifics. Like other PIE people, they were polytheists with humanlike deities, with a class of professional priests, with ceremonies marking agriculturally important events. There are two classes of god, also seen in Greek, Germanic and Celtic mythology, and the main god is the Sky Father, which may be a PIE universal.

>>2955291
>>2955392

In addition to the Indians and Iranians, the Mitanni of Hanigalblat called themselves Aryan. It seems to be a "South-East PIE" marker.

>>2956235

"Iran" is literally how you sell Aryan in Persian. Their country is called "Iranshah, "land of Aryans".

>>2960775

its not a matter of belief, its a matter of (your) ignorance, there were indigenous populations in northern europe before sardinians