Sea peoples edition

>>2954192
Are they in the bible?

they werr from some random place in greece, wasn't it kreta? can't remember, but not that much of a mystery.

and atlantis never existed

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>>2954192
Sherden were most likely from Sardinia, Nuraghic fortifications on that island are also connected to them.

Atlantis is unlikely to connect with Sea People myth, Illiad, on the other hand, is more than likely.

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>>2954259
>Atlantis is unlikely to connect with Sea People myth
Atlantis myth with Sea Peoples*

>>2954235
>and atlantis never existed
That's why I specified the MYTH of Atlantis

>>2954192

They were a cultural phenomena similar to the Vikings, more an occupation than a class or race. Their raiding parties were multi-ethnic and came from across bronze age Europe, and later waves even counted some of the victims of the first wave among them, for example the Philistines, who were Mycenean Greeks whose own civilization had been destroyed a generation earlier.

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>>2954274
>the Philistines, who were Mycenean Greeks
Citation really needed.

>>2954292
>tfw the philistines were the first destroyers of civilization

>>2954303
>destroyers of civilization
[citation needed]

>>2954292

Juden detected.

>>2954449
JUDEN RAUS!!!

>>2954192
>>2954259
>>2954269
>>2954235
>>2954270
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/aug/15/bronze-age-sardinia-archaeology-atlantis

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3200738/Was-Sardinia-home-Atlantis-Comet-triggered-enormous-tidal-wave-wiped-ancient-civilisation-experts-claim.html

>>2954192
Didn't they come from the north? Like everyone in that direction just winked out of existence in a straight path to Egypt?

>>2954292
Whether they spoke Greek or not the Phillistines used Greek arms, armor, and artisan goods.

>>2954231
Yes.

>>2954259
I've seen arguments for the opposite, that Sardinia was named after the Sherden who may have settled there after the Bronze Age collapse.

>>2954949
Where?

>>2954292

This is widely believed to be the case, it's even on their wiki page.
>The proposed connection between Mycenaean culture and Philistine culture was further documented by finds at the excavation of Ashdod, Ekron, Ashkelon, and more recently Gath, four of the five Philistine cities in Canaan. The fifth city is Gaza. Especially notable is the early Philistine pottery, a locally made version of the Aegean Mycenaean Late Helladic IIIC pottery, which is decorated in shades of brown and black. This later developed into the distinctive Philistine pottery of the Iron Age I, with black and red decorations on white slip known as Philistine Bichrome ware.[68] Also of particular interest is a large, well-constructed building covering 240 square metres (2,600 sq ft), discovered at Ekron. Its walls are broad, designed to support a second storey, and its wide, elaborate entrance leads to a large hall, partly covered with a roof supported on a row of columns. In the floor of the hall is a circular hearth paved with pebbles, as is typical in Mycenaean megaron hall buildings; other unusual architectural features are paved benches and podiums. Among the finds are three small bronze wheels with eight spokes. Such wheels are known to have been used for portable cultic stands in the Aegean region during this period, and it is therefore assumed that this building served cultic functions. Further evidence concerns an inscription in Ekron to PYGN or PYTN, which some have suggested refers to "Potnia", the title given to an ancient Mycenaean goddess. Among other findings there are wineries where fermented wine was produced, as well as loom weights resembling those of Mycenaean sites in Greece

Their sudden appearance as Sea Peoples a generation after the destruction of Mycenaean civilization and obviously Greek culture make it hard to deny.

>>2954956

But the material culture doesn't change on Sardinia during this period,and the metal figurines hey made in great numbers bear a striking resemblance to the Egyptian depictions of Sherden.

>>2954192

>Who exactly were the Sea Peoples (SP)?

They were probably Filipinos

>>2955460
>>2954292
>In July 2016 at the end of a 30-year excavation by the Leon Levy Expedition, a team of archaeologists from Harvard University, Boston College, Wheaton College in Illinois and Troy University in Alabama, the results of their excavation of a Philistine cemetery containing more than 150 burials dating from the 11th to 8th century BCE Tel Ashkelon were announced.[75]
>The deceased were buried in oval pits. Four out of the 150 were cremated and some other bodies were deposited in ashlar burial chamber tombs. This burial practice was well known from the Aegean cultural sphere and was diametrically opposite to Canaanite burials.
>These findings may represent the most conclusive evidence that Philistines were not indigenous to Canaan which is indicated by ceramics, architecture, burial customs, and pottery remains with writing – in non-Semitic languages.

I mean really, good luck explaining all of that with a Canaanite origin of the Philistines.

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>>2955475
So the New Testament is written in the language of the Philistines?

Goliath was a descendant of Ajax.

>>2955479

That's pretty funny.

>>2955479
Weren't Myceneans the original Greeks and around bronze age collapse the indo-europeans came and mostly took over?

>>2954944
Their armor was Cypriot, not Mycenean, and their pottery was Aegean but similar to the models found at Cyprus, and their script was Cypro Minoan, not Linear B.

Interestingly with the fall of the Myceneans we see Cyprus prosper, not collapse, it's in this period that Cyprus goods start to be seen more and more often in the Western Mediterranean

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>>2955554
Pic related, it's a Philistine from a Cypriot seal, the closest depiction ever found to a Peleset of Medinet Habu

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>>2955566
Map of the route of a bronze age shipwreck, it is probably from this "commonwealth" that the sea peoples came

It's not coincidence that their names resemble Anatolians, Greeks, Italics and Sards, because these were exactly the places involved in a typical long distance route

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>>2955583
An ivory plaque depicting a warrior wearing a corselet really similar to those of the sea peoples, there is another similar plaque from Cyprus.

There are also some stelae-statues in Corsica depicting the same armor.

None in Mycenean Greece to my knowledge though.

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>>2955590
The other one

>>2954292
Imagine the reaction of a native Hitite or Egyptian when clashing with these lads
>the fuck is that? A Jefferson Airplane drakkar? What's with the colours mang?
>that dude is swinging pipe judging by our galley slave's reaction.
>he's also black. The fuck's a Nubian doing coming from the North?
>is that a flowerpot on that guy's head?
>the fuck are these people?

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>>2955596
A few of the Filitosa statues from Corsica, contemporary to the sea peoples.

They originally had horns, the calotte helmet are the same of the sea peoples depicted at Medinet Habu, the lobster corselet is also the same, though in this picture you can only see the upper part of it.

Most have been broken purposely for unkown reasons.

They are found in the South Region of Corsica, where the Nuraghi-like structures are.

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>>2955604
A Philistine like head from Crete, thought not as close to the sea peoples as the guy from Cyprus, it's still pretty similar.

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>>2955608
These guys are interesting.

Theya re from Sardinia and they're wearing Egyptian styled tunics, we know that the Sherden were employed as royal guards of the pharaoh in Egypt and were given lands there.

>>2954192
>Who exactly were the Sea Peoples (SP)?

Copper merchants and middlemen from Cyprus, with various displaced peoples after a climatic change around about 1200 BC.

>And could they have any relation with the myth of Atlantis?

No.

>>2954944
They used Greek styles of pottery, but they were locally made.

Greek style pottery was very popular across the Levant.

>>2955460
That is certainly a theory, but there is no academic consesus by any means.

>>2955613
Conclusion:

It seems to me that The sea peoples were a mix of ethnicities, pirates often formed multiethnic coslitons, there were even istances where pirates came up with their own language, which was a mix of several different ones.

I believe this is The case, in late bronze she Cyprus we see The arrival of foreign people and weapons, with The collapse of The palatial System, These multiethnic pirates were free to do as They liked, these mixed Cyprio-minoan-Mycenean-Italic-Sard-Anatolians even allied with North Africans to take down Egypt and with The Nomadic Shashu in The Levant

>>2955632
The fact that it was locally Made is more of an argument for foreogn presence, They also used Aegean like hearths, oval burial pits and imported european porks, which They consumed, in comtrast to The local Canaanites Who avoided doing so


Of course The Philistines Soon mixed with Canaanites and quickly adopted their language and costums

>>2955642
Also note that in most cases The Philistines didnt found new settlements but occupied old ones

>>2955642
>The fact that it was locally Made is more of an argument for foreogn presence

No, it isn't. Anyone can learn how to make a greek-style pot. The fact that Greek style pottery was being made in the Levant hundreds of years before the Sea People's arrived suggests 1) the pots were not being made by Greeks and 2) that the presence of Greek pottery cannot be used to identify the sea peoples as Greek.

They likely had some people from the Ionian coast, and maybe even some from the Greek mainland, but they were by no means ethnically homogeneous.

>>2955642
Sherratt had a fantastic article not many years ago, basically explaining how the Sea Peoples were more of a multi-ethnic social class of decentralised traders and seafarers than migrating ethnic groups.

>>2955675
>Anyone can learn how to make a greek-style pot.
But why would a local culture start doing this when they have their own native pottery style?

And how do you explain the megaron-like structures and totally different burial practices? Even if you write off the pottery, architecture and burial are not something that suddenly changes without foreign intervention.

>>2955675
Aegean migrants were definitely present in Cyprus since The time of The Minoans, I agree that They were of course a minoroty but They are even recorded to have invaded Cyprus and to have raided Syria by The Hittites


Not to mention that They brought along their Eurooean swords which required specialists, so They came as mercenaries too

>>2954231
I believe the Philistines were connected with sea peoples.

>>2955469
lol

>>2955737
>But why would a local culture start doing this when they have their own native pottery style?

Same reason people in the 70s wore platform shoes: they thought it looked cool. In any case, the spread of Greek style pottery predates the sea peoples by several hundred years, so it's a moot point.

>And how do you explain the megaron-like structures and totally different burial practices? Even if you write off the pottery, architecture and burial are not something that suddenly changes without foreign intervention.

Oh, there's definitely a foreign incursion it's just it can't really be described as "Greek" or "Sardinian", it was messy.

>>2955860
Because those structures were common in Greece/Crete

>>2955860
If the Peleset are just one of the Sea Peoples, why wouldn't it be reasonable to assume they were at least a fairly homogenous group, at least culturally? We know the Sea Peoples as a whole were a confederation consisting of dozens of various ethnic groups, but I don't see why each one of those groups would necessarily also have to be comprised of various peoples themselves.

>>2955940
Because the Peleset(Pelastoi/Pelasgoi) were widespread in Greece, Crete, Italy and elsewhere according to the Greeks

>>2954259
That is a pretty cool fort you got there.

>>2955940
Because then you run into the problem of which culture, and where from? There's just no clear answer.

I'd recommend this article: http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00438243.2014.928602

They compare the Sea peoples to pirates of the modern era, where you have a lot of ethnicities and cultures coming together and forming its own distinct "pirate" (sub-)culture.

You may want to compare this to the sherratt article: (Sherratt, S. 1998. “Sea Peoples” and the economic structure of the late second millennium in the eastern Mediterranean, in S. Gitin, A. Mazar & E. Stern) I find them largely compatible.

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>>2955599

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>>2955971
They had cool architecture compared to the rest of Europe west of Greece

>>2955995
Some pretty interesting narrow "arches".

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>>2956002
Their corridors resemble the contemporary ones in Greece and Anatolia

>>2956017
Are those lights artificial or is that sunlight coming through the blocks? For the straight corridors they use vertical stacks, I am assuming done in succession. The corners are done using staggered, what a neat way to do that. I wonder if they used a framework placed under the successive rows of the straight corridor and just moved it along as each section was built? Very cool regardless. Is there a special term for this type of high pointed corridor/entrance?

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>>2956017
>>2955995
I was gonna say, some of them look a lot like the tholos tombs in Mycenaean Greece.

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>>2956044
Yes, they had similar techniques, though the Mycenean tholoi were aided by the weight of the dirt so were easier to build, or so I've read, I'm not knowledgeable in architecture, the Nuragics also built up to three tholos chambers upon eachother in some of the towers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTcCNXaMc-M
>>2956038
It's called corbel arch:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corbel_arch

I think the lighting is the result of purposely made holes but I'm not sure

>>2956077
>It's called corbel arch:
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corbel_arch
Sweet, thank you.

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Deliberate bump

>>2956622
Support Bump

>>2954192
atlanteans

>>2955504
doubt it considering mycenean is itself just the proto-greek language.

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>>2954292
What rank did the flower pot guy have?

>the New Testament is written in the language of the Philistines
>the real descendants of the ancient Israelites are the Palestinians
LMAO

>>2960228
Philistines are clearly the Luwian city state of Parundassa, I don't get how people don't understand this or haven't put forward thsi theory it's also near the city states of Washasuna, clearly the sea peoples known as Weshesh

These are my theories, put them forward and expand the verb, I reached this conclusion yesterday reading a paper about the Luwians during Pre-Hittite times

>>2958642
Why did he draw the helmet like that?

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>>2960252

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>>2954292
>>2955987
Why would the warrior with a horned helmet wonder about the fellow with the flowerpot helmet? they're both on the same side, both are mycenaeans on the same ship being attacked by the sea peoples, He's probably used to seeing that helmet.

>>2960289
You must be really fun at parties

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>>2960286
Yeah but the horns weren't placed like that, look at pic related, the guy on the left.

>>2960389
I know. It has to do with how Egyptian style art was drawn. Since everything is flat it looks odd.

Whoever drew the image must not be familiar.

>>2960394
Exactly, Egyptians drew like little kids do, or like Picasso

>>2960289
>Both are Myceneans

Not really, there is only one depiction of Mycenean warriors with horned helmets and the design is pretty different, both the helmet and the armor.

The closest people to the guy in terms of helmets and armor were the depictions found in Cyprus and Corsica

>>2960396
Eh, when they started to draw and you compare it to what other civilizations were doing it doesn't look too bad.

>>2960396
>>2960394

fun fact: it appears that art was intentionally stagnated in this form for reasons of piety of form.

>>2960404
I didn't say it looked bad

I said that the way they depicted space was like Picasso/little kids usually do, not in a realistic way, that doesn't mean it's bad, but they didn't care at all about perspective

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>>2960394
Seems like it came from this illustration.

>>2960420
wtf is going on with that guy's lower legs
footwear so tight he's bleeding?

>>2960437
Well it's not really based on any actual Egyptian painting

>>2960437
Scratches from fighting Egyptian scum all day long. That scorpion is gonna get him though.

>>2960406
I've always thought that but is there anything to confirm it?
>>2960413
It kinda looks better than Picasso.
I've always liked they style. It has a certain appeal that I can't quite put my finger on.

>>2960442
It's the eyes for me.

>>2960441
Looks like blood dripping down his muscles mixed with sweat. It's probably not his blood.

>>2960442
Not him, but religious art is generally consciously conservative. See orthodox icons. One orthodox iconographic today will learn how to paint icons exactly the same way they did in Byzantium a thousand years ago. Plato praised the Egyptians for not changing their art style and music for 3000 years, as he was critical of realistic art.

>>2960442
And yes it's better than Picasso because it's authentic whereas Picasso was a bohemian pseud attention whore.

>>2960470
The funny thing is that orthodox icons weren't conservative or even really restrictive in any way until post-iconoclasm.

>>2955632

They used Greek style EVERYTHING. Not just pottery, architecture, burials, even inscriptions. To deny that they were Greek is just obstinacy, some Christcucks do because they think the Bible says they were Semites, literally everyone else dismisses this claim because NONE of the evidence supports it.

>>2955486
I love this theory actually. Anakin from Ajax.

>>2960442
>I've always thought that but is there anything to confirm it?

It's stylistic, the Egyptians were perfectly capable of realistic art.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmHyNFUkiuo

>>2960495
they were not greeks, they were cypro-anatolian

>>2960511
Why are mortal enemies depicted as old pals?

>>2960511
Let's see

Those armors are bronze age, yes, but found in Central Europe, never in Greece

Aenas is dressed as a Philistine, but there's no reason to believe Philistines had any relation to Troy, Hector has an Egyptian like armor

The horned helmet shape is not really accurate, there is only one instance of horned helmets depicted in bronze age Greece and the shape is different

Achilles' helmet is ok, and Odysseus' too.

>>2955056

There's a very probable theory that the Philistines were descended from the Sea People.

>>2960645
The Philistines were listed among the sea peoples by Egyptians (PLST/PRST), the problem is that we don't know where they originated from-

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>>2954192
>Mycenean pottery shows up EXACTLY in the areas inhabited by people that go by the same name as the tribes listed among the sea peoples
>and exactly during the SAME time

Must be a coincidence hun

>>2954259
But how do you get to Sardinia when you can't sail there?

>>2960511
Lmao Hector's a Manlet?

>>2960642
>Hector has an Egyptian like armor
I don't see it

>>2960511
Which osprey this from?

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>>2961213
No idea, I think I saved it on /tg/ in ancient times, long before /his/.

>>2961338
>hoplite

That he certainly wasn't, since the class didn't exist during the bronze age. Armor like that is designed for charioteers, it would be suicide to go to war on foot dressed like that.

>>2954192
Why does this faggot thread always pop up with the same exact question? It's been answered a gajillion times who they were, but every single week there's a new WHO WERE DA SEE PEEPOLS thread. Maybe we should start making infographics like /pol/ to educate imbeciles asking the same question over and over.

>>2961503
It's still an open question.

>>2961512
It isn't really. Egyptians outright listed the raiding groups, all of which can easily be identified with contemporary peoples (Sicilians, Sardinians, Cretans, Cycladeans etc).