Khalid ibn al-Walid

we all have god on our side brother

>>2946685
We'll he couldn't beat death so clearly not

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>>2947292
>Was God really on his side?
Yes

>>2946685
The abbaside empire must rise again.
Remove the Jewish filth

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What happened to Islam?

Why did the Islamic world go from artistic empires to what it is today?

>>2947383
Conquered by ottoman empire which proceeded to block any science or development from the world coming to her territory so now we lag a few 100 years behind

Just a genius visionary. The truly gifted and intelligent always stand out in history.

>...his biggest achievement was the conversion of Arab tactical doctrine into a strategic system.[121] Until Khalid, the Arabs were basically raiders and skirmishers. Khalid turned those skirmishing tactics into something that could be used anywhere. Thus he would skirmish the enemy to death: he would bring his army in front of his enemies and wait until the whole battle degenerated into a skirmishing affair between small units. Then, after exhausting the enemy units, he would launch his cavalry at their flanks employing Hammer and Anvil tactics.[122]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_ibn_al-Walid#Legacy

>>2947445
>which proceeded to block any science or development from the world coming to her territory

What? Ottomans expanded so fast exactly because they copied everything from people they conquered in the first place

>>2947383
Wahhabism is fucking killing us, it should be purged from existence if we want the Middle East to return to peace

>>2947383
Arabization. The former great empires were able to continue being great despite Islam, but then it caught up to them.

Sort of like what happened during the Reformation era in Christianity

>>2947383
They lost the guidance of Persians who make them civilised in the first place
Now the leadership of Islam is held by the Saudis and they bringing down the whole Muslim world with them

>>2947445
>Conquered by ottoman empire which proceeded to block any science or development from the world coming to her territory so now we lag a few 100 years behind

Nice try, but Muslim territories outside Ottoman control stagnated too.

>>2948230
>>2947292
>muh stagnation
The term "stagnation" implies that if only certain factors had not been present the Islamic world would have followed the "normal course of development" that Europe did. The problem is that there is nothing "normal" about that course of development. No other region on Earth developed the way Europe did. Europe didn't develop normally, Europe deviated. The real question is why did Europe deviate and become such an abnormal civilization?

>>2948245
Because it had to in order to keep its place in the world.

Throughout human History, nobody has ever migrated en masse out of Europe into the Steppes, only the opposite. Consequently, Europe needed to develop measures in order to not be constantly swept over as it was done in the time of the Indo Europeans.

>>2948245
No, stagnation is absolutely fair. Syria and Egypt were the most advanced places in the Mediterranean when they were conquered by Arabs, hence why the Arabs themselves seemed so advanced (they weren't, the Syrians and Egyptians were). Likewise, Persia, which basically replaced most of Arab culture with its own.

Egypt became a stagnant backwater over the course of the middle ages.

>>2948230
Not nearly as hard.if it weren't for mohammed ali Pasha we would be some shithole like Congo or Chad

>>2948277
>became a stagnant backwater over the course of the middle ages.
what about the Fatimids

>>2946685
He beat Muhammad himself when he was a pagan. He was just an extraordinary general.

>>2948298
Only lasted 200 years

>>2948298
Well, their height was in the early middle ages.

>>2948322
>Only lasted 200 years
Are you actually trying to imply that was a short time?

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How do we kill the cancer that is Israel?
Pic related is from Hilary Clinton's leaked emails.
America literally fucked over Syria to make sure Israel keeps hold of it's Nuclear Monopoly.

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>>2948277>>2948322
>Egypt became a stagnant backwater over the course of the middle ages

nigga Fustat and Damascus were one of the most culturally and economically significant centers well after 642 ad.

Get your "muh ayrrab genocided everything" retardation out of here

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>>2948692
alas, unless someone invents a weapon to render nuclear weapons useless it is impossible without a miracle from Allah

In the meanwhile, I choose to believe that it is part of the punishment sent upon the Ar*bs for siding with Anglo kafirs against the Osmani khalifa

>>2948894
Shhhhhh he is autistic and may cry

>>2948912
True.we should have gotten them out with a peaceful way.no matter how horrible they were,the ottomans were the last stronghold of Islam in the world

>>2949013
I'm curious why do you(assuming you're arab) think the Ottomans were horrible though?

>>2948912
>when niggers attempt to trespass your land

>>2948692
>That pic.
This is why i hope Iran is successful in Building Nuclear Weapons. Once that happens every regional power in the Middle East (Turkey, Egypt, Saudi Arabia) will go Nuclear. Israel will no longer be able to invade countries without having to fear retaliation, and their Greater Israel project will fail.

>>2949035
Egyptian here
Lots of famines,tons of corruption,withheld from education.by the time the french came we were no more than some ooga booga Congo tribes

>>2949071
>This is why i hope Iran is successful in Building Nuclear Weapons.
uh, where did you get this idea that they even want to build nuclear weapons? isn't that just propoganda?

>>2949198
>uh, where did you get this idea that they even want to build nuclear weapons? isn't that just propoganda?
I don't care if they want to or not, but if they do. Then i fully support that. Israel and America need to fuck off. Iran shouldn't trade their Nuclear capabilities for a piece of paper that says ''I won't invade you''

>>2949217
I see what you're saying, but I'm pretty sure nuclear weapons would be considered haram so it's unlikely they'll ever develop them.

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>>2949185
Okay thats a fair assessment. I don't think you guys were African tribe tier but Mamluks with swords can't beat French rifles is all.

The Muhammad Ali dynasty set you on the right path but if his sons focused more on developing your cotton industry instead of fighting wars with the Turks and Ethiopians I think Egypt would be much more advanced now and probably could have stopped Israel from existing.

>>2949239
Let's do an assessment on mohammed ali Pashas sons

Ibrahim:didn't live long
Abbas: did nothing at all
Said: how could he think of letting the french have the canal,this borders autism
Ismael: installed army officials because they were his friends and cronies and not for ability of leadership etc. No financial sense.
Tawfik: a tumor

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>>2949308
Thats what you get for letting an Alb*anian take over your country

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>Constantinople will never ever be under Christian or Greek hands again.
Feels good man.

>>2949409
modern Turks are Greek

>>2949409
>Cordoba will never ever be under Muslim hands again
Feels bad man

>>2947383
It was always a shithole. The muh Golden Age of Islam is just an Orientaboo meme for 18/19th century Western bourgeoisie, it never happened

>>2948894
642 is not generally considered the middle ages.

>>2949413
>Cordoba
We will take it back once the future European demographic becomes majority Muslim. Al-Andalus is rightful Moorish clay.

>>2949438
>642 is not generally considered the middle ages.
The middle ages start with 476, m8

>>2949438
Yes it is. the Early Middle Ages is everything from 500 until the middle middle ages

>>2949424
But that's wrong you nigger

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>>2949424
>it never happened
Al-Khawarizmi
Al-Hazen
Averroes
Ibn Khaldun.
Ibn Arabi
Al-Battani
The House of Wisdom in Baghdad.
etc..
Were all those made up?

>>2949470
>a bunch of literal whos
I googled one of them randomly and this is what I've got

>Ibn Arabi
> Arab[1] Andalusian Sunni scholar of Islam, Sufi mystic, poet, and philosopher
So what exactly did he achieve, if anything? Hm? Mr. Abdul?

>>2949486
Are you implying you don't know alkhawarizmi? Your only excuse at this point is being autistic or being an illiterate fucker from the southern us.
The number you use were made by arabs you dumbfuck

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>>2949486
>a bunch of literal whos
The word ''Algebra'' is literally named after Al-Khwarizmi's book Ilm al-jabr wa'l-muḳābala.

>>2948692
If Israel got provoked into retaliating against Iraq in the gulf war, things would be different

Iraq was the only thing keeping those kikes in their place until it fell.

>>2949517
Hitler gassed the wrong people,illiterate fuckers like this dude who doesn't know alkhawarizmi should have went instead of the Jews

>>2949486
>literal who's
>founder of Algebra
>Pioneer of modern medicine

Why talk so much when you clearly know so little?

>>2949510
>The number you use were made by arabs
Indian in origin

Plus, inventing a bunch of symbols for values is hardly an achievement, these just happened to become the more popular ones, Abdul

>>2949517
You can find algebra in ancient Greek works like Arithmetica, the Arabs you're talking about probably just copied from there, like everything else

>>2949558
>Pioneer of modern medicine
That would be Hippocrates followed by Galen and maybe Paracelsus

>>2949583
>denying achievements so hard because you're a hard-core stormfart/pol autist

Yeah sure, Cletus

>the Arabs you're talking about probably just copied from there

Yeah good thing they were the only people in history up to their point to actually fund a collectivized research center, gather researchers, scientists and give them a large quarters and make them work together, search and collect ancient greek texts and translate them and revive the works. If a bunch of christkeks found those scrolls they would've burned them because muh heresy.

Get out of /his/ please, your IQ is below the minimum requirement.

>>2949609
>steals achievements of others
>le Christkek inquisition meme
This just keeps getting better, Mehmet.

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>>2949583
Here's to the numbers we stole.literally the only thing "stolen" was the idea to have standardised set of numbers

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>>2949638
>doesn't know who Averroes is
>goes to /his/

>le christkek inquisition meme
but it happened Anon, ever heard where Galilee spent the rest of his life? and he was early-modern, let alone medieval where Europoors regularly had book-burning field trips on anything that didn't look like a bible.

>le stealing meme

Whats your point? Post-dark ages Europe was literally built on stealing. Languages, numbers, everything were literally stolen

>tfw Europeans NEVER actually developed a language

Why are /pol/acks allowed to walk outside their containment pen?

>>2949583
>the Arabs you're talking about
First. Al-Khwarizmi was Persian, not Arab you dumb waste of sperm.
>You can find algebra in ancient Greek works like Arithmetica
Which they copied from the Ancient Babylonians and Egyptians, by your own retarded logic. The Greeks and the West stole everything from the Ancient Middle Easterners. Also the Arabs didn't ''copy everything from the Greeks'' like you like to delude yourself. Al-Hazen literally founded the Scientific Method and is the father of Optical Science.

>>2949690
>>2949709
>Post-dark ages Europe was literally built on stealing. Languages, numbers, everything were literally stolen
>Europeans NEVER actually developed a language
>The Greeks and the West stole everything from the Ancient Middle Easterners
Your wewuzism is showing

> Al-Khwarizmi was Persian, not Arab
Like I'm supposed to know the name of every random raghead.

>founded the Scientific Method
Ever heard of Aristotle?

>>2949658
>Here's to the numbers we stole
>we
kek, fucking knew it

>>2949709
>Al-Khwarizmi was Persian, not Arab
That only lends support to the claim that the Islamic Golden Age is a myth, when in reality it was just Persians continuing to do Persian things in defiance of the stultifying effect if Islam.
:3

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>>2949583
>being this retarded

>>2949788
Leave him alone, he doesn't even know the names of the mentioned scientists to know what their works are.

Lincoln didn't finish the job with the south.

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>>2949782
thats why its called the ISLAMIC golden age, not Arab golden age because the inventors were Muslim and worked under the patronage of an Islamic government.Also, a lot of those polymaths were quite involved in Islamic theological scholarship as well as the sciences

>>2949748
>>Post-dark ages Europe was literally built on stealing. Languages, numbers, everything were literally stolen
By your own retarded logic? Yes.

>>2946685
>beating up two heavily weakened plague-stricken empires on their worst days after a nearly 30 year war with each other
>impressive

>>2947536
In terms of academics and sciences, the Ottomans contributed almost fucking nothing.

>>2949782
>That only lends support to the claim that the Islamic Golden Age is a myth
No it doesn't. The Persian scientists were still Muslim and Al-Hazen, Ibn Arabi, Averroes, Al-Battani, Ibn Khaldun were all Arab.
>:3
How mature.

>>2948251
The Russians did m8

>>2949806
Don't forget that they weren't all muslims, a bunch of non-muslims worked in the house of wisdom, it was literally THE first thing of its kind, hundreds of scholars, translators, scientists, inventors, dedicated research center with astronomical devices. And they didn't steal shit, they translated greek texts and attributed them to their authors. The same greek works that were sitting under Roman/byzantine rule for hundreds of years and being destroyed whenever found were preserved by Muslims

>>2949820
>the weak empire meme

They were exhausted when the Arabs walked in, but they still topped Arabs on everything from equipment to numbers and still lost. It's a pretty fucking impressive military show. If it's not than Alexander was nothing since he walked up to the Achaemenids when they were falling apart

>>2949820
strawman. he said the ottomans adopted to technology, not create it. massive difference. to compare, the romans contributed jackshit yet they excelled at what they copied.

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>>2949843
>The Romans contributed jackshit

Look I agree with your point, but that statement is fucking bullshit.

>>2949833
Sassanids had half of their population dead from seven years of plague that wiped out most of Western Persia populace, a civil war that only ended a year before the Rashidun Caliphate started attacking both them and the Byzantine/Eastern Roman Empire, and on top of that as proven by Al-tabari, the Euphrates and Tigris rivers had flooded, severely destroyed the vital croplands in Mesopotamia that lead to large scale famine.

This was a resurgence of Justinian's Plague, which also struck the Byzantines nearly as badly as it did the Persians. Also to fucking add to this, there is no way the Arab sources on Persian and Byzantine "military numbers" are remotely in the realm of feasibility given less then a decade before their advent, neither the Persians nor the Byzantines could even summon armies larger then 10,000 to 15,000 men in the final days of their last war with each other.

>>2949843
That's not a strawman. Re-read my post. Your post is the strawman. I said nothing about technolgy, I said about academics and high culture. Go ahead, name a single major mathemetic, scientific, or academic Ottoman contribution besides that one-off astrological observertory.

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>>2949820
>>2949833
lmao Romans still can't come to terms with how hard they got btfoed

>>2949860
>sassanids had half thier population dead

Exaggeration, and even if actually true, that's still more population than what the sand people had.

>This was a resurgence of Justinian's Plague, which also struck the Byzantines nearly as badly as it did the Persians. Also to fucking add to this, there is no way the Arab sources on Persian and Byzantine "military numbers" are remotely in the realm of feasibility given less then a decade before their advent, neither the Persians nor the Byzantines could even summon armies larger then 10,000 to 15,000 men in the final days of their last war with each other.

So baseless assumtpions are history now?

you realise even byzantine-sympathizing historians still put their numbers equal or slightly more than Arabs?

You realise Arabs themselvses had just stopped killing eachother in a civil war when they ventured north?

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>>2949860
What part of. ""they still Fucking outnumbered the Muslims""" don't you get?

>>2949873
Why are Arabs so bad at wars since the 19th century then?

>>2949843
>strawman
Ayyy. The biggest "scientific" advancement the Turks ever did was a big observatory and most scholars view it as being used for fucking astrological signs and predication, not actual observations of stars or scientific mapping of movements of celestial bodies in academic way.

>>2949878
>Exaggeration
Al-tabari's numbers have been verified. Even the carbon dating of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers were proven correct on their flooding and the plague was fucking documented by various sources beside Persian ones including Arabs, Greeks, and other sources.

>baseless assumpations
>Arab numbers stemming from SWORD OF ALLAH.COM and the Koran
>valid
Ayyyyy

>>2949873
>...and since then the whole area has been, and still is, a shithole that nothing useful ever came out of

>>2949885
>breaking down and fully admitting being /pol/ack

Can everybody stop responding to this bait? This is what he lives on.

>>2949885
>moving goalposts: the Post

>>2949878
The only Byzantine historian who claims the Arabs had been historically massively outnumbered had a grudge against then incumbent Byzantine ruler was that faggot Theophanes. His numbers are from hearsay, they aren't valid for shit.

>>2949896
>no rebuttal
>no counter-argument
>just a shitty attempt at poisoning the well and trying call someone "/pol/" to use as boogeyman to deflect from having to prove your argument

>>2949902
Stop samefagging, retard. Learn what goal posts are, considering you don't know how strawman arguments even work.

>>2949879
I randomly picked one of those battle to check it out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Firaz

Turns out you're full of shit, like mudslimes usually are, it's just myths, legends and revisionism with you, every time.

>>2949858
A better way to rephrase myself is to say that they were excellent craftsmen but didn't innovate on what's established.

>>2949860
>I said nothing about technolgy
>I said about academics and high culture.
Science and technology go hand in hand. When he meant by copy, he was obviously referring to the Ottomans eagerness to adopt firearms. The whole contribute thing is irrelevant.

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>>2949895
>>2949885

>>2949878
>Exaggeration
Al-tabari has been historically accurate on every claim he's made including going out of his way to measure the soil, the rivers, visiting sites and locations he talks about in his books, and been backed by modern scholarship. Do you even know what YOU are talking?

>>2949908
No they don't, you piss-ant. Academics do not equate to technology in a literal context. You are probably a mental invalid aren't you?

>>2949885
>Arab numbers stemming from SWORD OF ALLAH.COM and the Koran
Not him, but this is a literal lie. Plenty of the battles were recorded and documented by Byzantine chroniclers who have stated plenty of times that they outnumbered the Arabs and were still beaten by them.

>>2949908
>academics ! = technology
No.

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>>2949895
>s--hhiitwhole guys... i-t was a shithole *holds back tears*
> T-they made u numbers- don't listen to what those marxist academic tell you .. a band of desert nomads totally could have fielded a larger army than an empire of several centuries

Lmao. this is too good

>>2949895
>>...and since then the whole area has been, and still is, a shithole that nothing useful ever came out of
Not really. The Islamic Golden Age started after that and only ended during the Mongol invasions.

>>2949919
>Not him
Yeah sure.
>this is a literal lie
Then why do so many sources for early Arab battles require citations that haven't been yet verified independently or stem solely from Arab/Muslim historiography? Also I sure as fuck hope you aren't claiming Theophanes as a source.

>>2949903
>no rebuttal
>no counter-argument
>just a shitty attempt at poisoning the well and trying call someone "/pol/" to use as boogeyman to deflect from having to prove your argument

You're /pol/, it destroys your credibility so to speak, and now that you're being cornered you're trying to sound less of an ape.

>sources

both contemprary AND modern historians agree that the byzantines and Sassanids largely outnumbered the Arabs, it's only normal. Two are civilizations centuries old that supported large populations with a trade road passing through them and large amounts of arable lands, the other is a nomadic collection of tribes living in one of the most arid areas in the planet.

>changing course of arguments on floods

still doesn't change anything my dear /pol/ster. The byzantines still outnumbered Arabs, if you're willing to provide a modern historian who isn't biased who estimates Byzantine numbers LESS than Arabs I'll go ahead and take you 1% more seriously (thus taking you 1% seriously)

>>2949918
Reread >>2947536 post retard. He clearly said the Ottomans didn't block out the science and development. All of a sudden you bring up "high-culture" and academics which have nothing to do with fucking firearms.

>>2949921
I never said that. But trying to use the fact that the Ottomans never contributed anything to debunk the fact that they brought in and copied technology is false.

>>2949424
Except it did

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>>2949895
>the memes are true

>>2949939
>You're /pol/
No, I'm not. This is the second time you've attempted to poison the well falsely to weasel your way out of making a proper counter-argument.

>both contemporary
No they don't
>and modern historians
No they don't.
>Two are civilizations centuries old
Irrelevant.
>supported large populations
Both were suffering from Justinian Plague for nearly a decade, the entire western half of the Persian Empire's population was cut in two. Your claim is ludicrous. You are trying to use circular logic to make an assertion a fact.
>nomadic collection of tribes
So what? How does this remotely correlate to them being a tiny population? You are flagrantly lying trying to justify and dick-suck hyper exaggerated unverified hyperbolic Arab numbers on past battles that have no proof of the numerical disparity being as great as Arab historians claim.

>/pol/ster
Don't think so, faggot. And burden of proof is still on you to show independent sources that don't realy solely on hearsay and are contemporary of the period when these battles happened. I'll wait.

>>2949949
Re-read my post, you mongoloid. I said the Ottomans have historically no contributed anything signifigant and you brought up technology with your strawman argument trying to claim "I" was making a strawman argument. Are you mentally retarded? And you keep talking about technology as if that correlates to academic pursuits and higher learning, which it does not. The fucking cannons the Ottomans used to take down Constantinople's walls came from a German dude.

You are retarded.

>>2949935
>Then why do so many sources for early Arab battles require citations
The early Arab battles require citations because the Byzantines didn't consider them a threat back then.
> hope you aren't claiming Theophanes as a source.
He absolutely can be considered a source. It dispels your lie that all of the battles were from Arab/Muslim sources

>>2949949
You're reading comprehension is fucking awful:

>>2949820
>"In terms of academics and sciences, the Ottomans contributed almost fucking nothing."
No where here does my post say anything either way about technology. Yet you here >>2949908 with a retarded incomrephensible argument about technology again and "copying" which is never the tangent, only learning and higher education and academics. You are literally THAT stupid that you can't even follow the goal post.

>>2949975
Not that anon but you are also stupid: Theophanes is contemporary to nothing to the wars between the Arabs with the Byzantines and Sassanids and comes a full century after the initial conflicts. On top of that, he said "Muslim historians", not "all" historians.

God you are a retard.

>>2949922
>saladin
>getting his shit pushed in by Richard Lionheart

Pick two

>>2949975
>The early Arab battles require citations because the Byzantines didn't consider them a threat back then.
The early Arab battles with Byzantines require citations because Arab sources are unverified and untrustworthy maybe instead?
>He absolutely can be
No he can't? He's not contemprary to the wars and events in the mid and late 7th century? He also had a beef with Emperor Leo, on top of that his book is even riddled with inaccuracies regarding dates, and certain events in earlier Byzantine history and draw from oral claims rather then any actual written documents and are hugely suspect. So a Byzantine monk with a hate boner for an Emperor who has politically and religiously against him writing an inaccurate history to try and humilitate him via previous defeats of earlier more "heroic" Byzantine Emperors is really iffy.

>>2949968
>screams about how arabs are inferior
>screams about muh mudslimes
>doesn't know the names of scientific pioneers and denounces their works because of political bias/religious bias
"im not pol you're just trying to poison me, nothin personal kid."

You're biased and angry and butthurt, that's clearly established, now that's out of the way;

>both contemporary
No they don't
>and modern historians
No they don't.

Oh really? bring me examples than or be dismissed.

>Irrelevant
Very well, the floods and plagues and war are irrelevant too than. Since Arabs were at war before they conquered the Byzantines and Sassanids.


>Both were suffering from Justinian Plague for nearly a decade, the entire western half of the Persian Empire's population was cut in two. Your claim is ludicrous. You are trying to use circular logic to make an assertion a fact.

It still doesn't put a dent in the argument, you could remove over half the population of both those empires and they would still outnumber nomads that lived on camels and hunting.

>So what? How does this remotely correlate to them being a tiny population? You are flagrantly lying trying to justify and dick-suck hyper exaggerated unverified hyperbolic Arab numbers on past battles that have no proof of the numerical disparity being as great as Arab historians claim.

Now you're just babbling, I can't take you seriously until you provide hard-sources now, you're not credible nor can't be taken seriously with these levels of contrarianism and blatant bias and stupidity.

>>2950004

>numbers are lies because muh arab only sources
>"here's a byzantine historian with nu-"
>INCCARUTTEAET, FALSE, UNTRSUTWORTHY, I'M MORE CREDIBLE. nothing personal kids

Lmao.

>>2949989
>he said "Muslim historians", not "all" historians.
>why do so many sources for early Arab battles require citations that haven't been yet verified independently or stem solely from Arab/Muslim historiography?
>stem solely from Arab/Muslim historiography?

>Theophanes is contemporary to nothing to the wars between the Arabs with the Byzantines and Sassanids and comes a full century after the initial conflicts
That unironically doesn't matter. Literally everything we know about Alexander the Great and his battles comes 200 years after his death.
>God you are a retard.
Ah yes, Ad Hominem. The oldest trick in the book.

>>2949968
Nowhere in my posts did I deny the Ottomans not contributing anything. I am merely saying that using the argument that they didn't contribute somehow invalidates the fact that they were pragmatic enough to copy everyone around them to keep up to par with the rest.

>>2949989
>No where here does my post say anything are either way about technology.
Are you joking? Science is a field of technology. Copying was the tagent as the very original post itself was talking about copying.

FFs, the original post that the guy was replying to said the same thing I said above. The Ottomans did not contribute shit, that much is agreed on. But they did copy which is what the original post also said.

>>2950025
*doesn't invalidates

>>2950021
He's 0 on history, the second he started discrediting historians because they existed centuries after the events was when I dropped all hope in him.

The only history he probably studied in his life was after this argument started and his shit started being pushed in and he started googling at Usain-bolt speeds.

>>2950039
Don't go too harsh he may hang himself after realising that the white race isn't invincible

Reading this thread was way more informational than I thought
I figured this board would be a /pol/ 2.0 despite all efforts and I'm pleasantly surprised
Thanks for giving me a new place on this site to go to when I want to learn stuff
sage since I'm just blogposting

>>2950063
>I figured this board would be a /pol/ 2.0 despite all efforts and I'm pleasantly surprised
Lurk Moar.

>>2950063
>figured this board would be a /pol/ 2.0 despite all efforts and I'm pleasantly surprised
/his/ is /pol/ with dates.

>>2949806
>thats why its called the ISLAMIC golden age, not Arab golden age because the inventors were Muslim and worked under the patronage of an Islamic government.
How does that follow?
You never hear anyone calling the Renaissance the "Christian Golden Age", even though everyone involved was a Christian living under Christian rule, why should it be different just because the people involved are Muslim?

Could it be because Muslims have a vested interest in making it seem their religion isn't as regressive as it actually is?

>>2950063
It's not really that /pol/. We get a few spills of autists from pol every now and than, a "hitler was a good guy" thread maybe once a week, the monkey in this thread is an inevitable result of creating ANY thread about ANYTHING related to middle-east/Islam, and it's usually just 1, 2 at most.

/his/ is pretty integral and consistent for being in the middle of a shithole, OVERALL.

>>2950020
Destroyed him anon.
May I have the honour of knowing your country of origin ?

>>2947383

Islam itself is fucking cancer tier.

Any part of the Islamic world that used to be great was never great because of Islam.

Islam is retarded because it fundamentally teaches people to be satisfied with nothing but Islam.

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>>2950136
>went to cry in a corner for 30 minutes
>came back to rage some more

kek, go back to your containment board laddie, they will suck your dick for saying this.

>>2950136
almoravids and almohads >>> desert horseniggers
ottomans and turkish republic >>> hiittes
arabia >>> goat fuckers
educated blacks from mali >>> ooga booga niggers
that wasn't hard

>>2950187
Europeans
>muh crusade
>where my sister at she hasn't tasted my dick in over 2 days

>>2950020
>>2950021
>>2950025
>>2950039
>>2950049
>all this projection and samefagging without actually addressing counter-parts and still trying to poison the well and use argument from belief bullshit to underpin your lies
Pathetic.
Sudoku yourself.

>>2950256
>samefagging
Do you genuinely believe all those posts you linked were written by the same person? Are you actually that insecure?

>>2950090
Because the renaissance was not under a united Christian banner but the product of Italian city states whereas the Abbasid's literally where an empire united by Islam and operated entirely under Islamic principles

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>>2950256
>gets anally demolished
>disappears to vent it out
>comes back
>ITS... ITS A FUCKING CONSPIRACY.. THEY SAMEFAGGED ME... ITS NOT FUCKING FAIR *Sobs*

neck yourself and call a few /pol/shits to come collect your body out of /his/ and give it a proper fedoral burial.

>>2950187
>ottomans and turkish republic >>> hiittes
I beg to differ.

>>2950275
Not him but seems plausible to me. The anon is a solitary and alienated poster, very rarely interacting in a thread with people other than the anon he is directly communicating with. When you see a post congratulating another post for btfo'ing a third post it reeks of samefag.

That or brigading.

>>2950289
Feel free to point out a non-Christian Italian city-state.

Khalid's battles have been confirmed not only by Arabic sources, but also by Byzantine sources, most notably the chronicles of Theophanes. He mentions a number of Khalid's battles, including the key Battle of Yarmuk where Theophanes confirms that Heraclius raised a huge army at Yarmuk and the figures he gives for the size of his army is pretty much in agreement with the early Arabic sources. In fact, Theophanes gives an even larger figure for the Byzantine army at Yarmuk (80,000 Byzantines and 60,000 allied Christian Arabs) than some of the early Arabic sources (Ibn Ishaq gives a figure of 80,000 Byzantine troops).

As for the oral narrations, the early Muslim historians developed a sophisticated and rigorous historical method of determining which ones are reliable and which ones are not, which they called the science of hadith. The only ones that were deemed reliable were the ones that were passed down through an unbroken chain of narration connecting directly to Muhammad's companions and through multiple independent chains of narration. In contrast, such a rigorous historical method was non-existent in antiquity. In addition, Ibn Ishaq's earliest surviving biography of Muhammad recorded many of Khalid's battles. Ibn Ishaq was himself a student of Muhammad's nephew Urwah ibn Zubayr and thus had a direct connection to the events.

With all this in mind, I would say the historical accounts regarding Khalid's battles are more reliable than any of the accounts concerning the early Greek battles, like the Greco-Persian Wars (no contemporary accounts have survived, but we are dependent on later Greek historians who themselves depended on oral traditions, though their historical methods were nowhere near as rigorous as the science of hadith) and the battles of Alexander (hardly any contemporary accounts of his battles have survived, but we are mainly dependent on sources centuries after his battles).

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>>2950421
Got to agree with you.

>>2950448
Doesn't matter, kid. You lost the fucking argument and cried "samefag". Stop samefagging you delusional fucktard.

>>2950544
Now who's crying samefag?
:3

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>>2950552
Wanna have round 2 of /pol/poster gets BTFO and assumes fetal position for 30 minutes while calling everyone a samefag?

So this Muslim dude hasn't addressed the valid criticism of theophanes.

Despite or perhaps because of your efforts I now believe the Islamic golden age is just memes.

Try all the faggotry you like but well reasoned points beat name calling for anyone with basic reading comprehension.

Also provide sauces.
You can't both just scream for a source without providing any ffs

I am a robot.

>>2950275
>>2950408
>>2950566
Of course I do, (You) aren't fooling anyone.

>>2950457
>Theophanes
Meme tier source.

>>2950762
>Of course I do
That's just pathetic and sad.

>>2949999
>Saladin
>took back Jerusalem anyway
>meanwhile Richard bankrupts his country with war and then bankrupts it again by getting captured and ransomed
lol

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>>2950762
>Of course I do, (You) aren't fooling anyone.

>>2949440

And then they will leave islam in coming decades and become infidel god deniers again. Problem mehmet?

>>2950457

There is no way the Roman Empire under Heraclius could field 80,000 men + allies in a single place, between the expense cuts, the original plague, the recurring plague killing off young able bodied men, the necessity to keep troops on the Danube frontier and in Italy on standby, etc, a force of over 100.000 fighting men with baggage train and followers would have amounted to more men involved in one single battle against what was assumed to be a very large raiding army, than the entire roman army at the outbreak of the Sassanian wars. The amount of logistics, food, etc would have been more considerable than what the empire could bear to project at that point.

A more reasonable figure is 50000 men tops, including allied forces, still outnumbering the arabs but by a lesser margin. A roman expedition, even under Justinian rarely exceeded 20k men.

>>2951898
>And then they will leave islam in coming decades and become infidel god deniers again. Problem mehmet?
Yeah keep telling yourself that.

>>2952027
They could have done, they just got done with a huge series of wars so their armies were large and bloated, like the USA right after WW2. The whole stagnated dying empire thing doesn't work as an excuse when their army was arguably at its highest peak for a long time and had also just been through a series of major reforms.

>>2950881
BTFO
T
F
O

>>2952081
Their armies were anything but large and bloated. The war was won by a single elite army force led by Heraclius, and that army was around 50k strong BEFORE campaigning for a year in enemy territory. The rest of the Empire was either in Persian hands or dealing with the frontiers. The Imperial army was either dead or in shambles, and veterans were few and far away. The only professional fighting force with projecting power was Heraclius' force. And that was before he struck back.

With both empires suffering from a plague killing young people mostly and having to cut costs at the same time as defend against avar or slavic incursions whilst getting the administration reformed and the reconquered provinces in order, the armies were not on the top of the priority list, and were certainly not in any shape or form bloated.

And they were far far far far from their peak. As far as you get really. By the time the arabs struck, only a few of Heraclius' veterans would still be in the army, and the rest wouldn't have fought a single battle.

>>2952027
Pretty sure even modern historians agree the Byzantine army after all its decline in the 7th century it could still muster upwards of 120-150+ thousand men. The war and plague didn't completely guy the empire and they still had an estimated 10+ million population at the time, also the reforms of Justinian considerably strengthened and made the army larger (only a century before it was estimated more than 350,000 large)

>>2952117
These are figures by David Nicole, around the time of the Arab wars:

10,000-20,000 troops around Constantinople.
25,000 garrison and poorly trained troops in Egypt
5-10,000 troops in Africa.
5-10,000 troops in Italy.
8-10,000 troops in the Balkans.
5,000 troops in the Mediterranean islands
12,000 troops in Armenia ( only 5-8,000 deployable).
1-2,000 troops in Anatolia
8,000 troops in Upper Mesopotamia.
5,000 troops in northern Syria.
5,000 troops in Palestine and Arabia.

Around 100.000 for the entire empire. Is a figure of 80.000 men sent to put down a raiding army really realistic in that regard?

>>2950457
By the time Khalid and the Muslims attacked Persia it was on it's course to collapse. The plague, the damaged dams, the ruined economy, the lost men in the war against the Byzantines, the civil war. I mean, it couldn't have gone better for the Rashidun.

The Sassanids were so exhausted from the war that when Heraclius practically raised a new army he proceeded into Sassanid territory virtually unchallenged.

Pretty sad considering the foolish wars the Sassanids waged on the Byzantines destroyed their nation when they could have conquered India

>>2949412
>modern Turks are Greek rape babies
FTFY

>>2952156
>when they could have conquered India
Idk about that. I think the Gupta empire was in power then and they would have been able to keep up a decent resistance to an invasion.
Also, in the 8th CE, the Arab's were stopped at the Sindh region of the Indian sub-continent.

>>2949409
>Arab taking Turkish accomplishments

>>2946685
yes Allah was on his side

>>2947383
84 years ago the arabs became the greatest allies of america and britain thanks to british spies

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>>2946685
This should explain

>>2950881
>hours later in photoshop

>>2952338
>Join us or pay tax, or die
Sounds like literally every government ever

>>2952107
Well write a book on it because the consensus says otherwise

It is correct that both Empires were weakened but its stupid, unfair and bias to take all achievements from Walid just because you dislike Islam/Muslims

>>2952363
The books have been written, see >>2952143

Several other historians support the lower number.

Actually for what it's worth, the "consensus" presented in the History of Byzantium podcast (for what it's worth, but he seems to have solid sources), also pointed to an around 40-50k soldier count on the roman side at Yarmouk.

Why did Heraclius get BTFO so hard? He clearly was a good leader as evidenced by his decimation of the persians. Even with the plague and economic hardships, the Byzantines were able to field a strong army, so was it just a matter that Walid was a better general than Heraclius?

>>2952432
Hubris man

But really the Arabs hadn't done anything since well, forever, except minor raids, when suddenly a giant well trained and organised army appears with basically the 7th century version of blitzkrieg.

>>2952438
>giant
15000 in yarmuk raped 120000
>well trained
Lol no they were herders/farmers
>blitzkrieg
To do a blitzkrieg you need a quick moving cavalry.how much damage could 500 horsemen have possibly do to 120000 ?

God stood with them against the byzantine hordes

>>2949071
>Israel will no longer be able to invade countries without having to fear retaliation

Implying that it's Israel invading other countries. Name one time the Arabs didn't deserve it.

>>2952453
>15000 in yarmuk raped 120000

Stop it. Go troll on pol.

>>2952361
What do you mean join us? Invading North Africa and The Middle East and turning non-muslims into 3rd class citizens in their own land isn't an option.

>>2952473
>3rd class citizens
Unlike white christian racists throughout history, muslims didn't care about race and non-muslims had all the same rights as long as they paid the taxes

>>2952478
>non-muslims
>all the same rights

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>2952469
Do facts make you upset hun?

>>2952487
It is a well known fact that non-muslims were given protection and rights equal to the non-muslims in the ottoman empire. It's sad that modern day christians don't return the favour.

>>2952453
>15000 in yarmuk raped 120000
Exaggerated figures, the arab army was still large
>Lol no they were herders/farmers
The Muslim forces were made up of the tribesmen who'd spent the last 10-15 years fighting in the various muslim vs tribe conflicts or the muslim civil wars, part of the motivation for the invasion out of Arabia was to give the 1000s of restless veterans something to do before they were used in another civil war
>To do a blitzkrieg you need a quick moving cavalry.how much damage could 500 horsemen have possibly do to 120000 ?
The arab camel tactics and flanking strategy mimics blitzkrieg in a loose sense, i'm not trying to make a serious comparison, it's just the same concept

>>2952473
What I meant is that in literally any state if you refuse to pay tax you're either jailed or killed, but people act like Jizya was worse than the holocaust

Ignoring the fact that Dhimmis didn't have to pay Zakat tax nor did they have to do obligatory military service.

>>2952491
See>>2952143

>>2952517
yeah they didn't have to pay Zakat or go into the military while normal muslims had to.
I can't believe I forgot about Zakat.
Damn non-muslims are evil.
They were given so many privileges and they don't return any of them right now

>>2952469
>>2952522
>Most early accounts place the size of the Muslim forces between 24,000 and 40,000 and the number of Byzantine forces between 100,000 and 400,000. Modern estimates for the sizes of the respective armies vary: the vast majority of estimates for the Byzantine army are between 80,000 and 150,000, while other estimates are as low as 15,000 to 20,000.
>Estimates for the Rashidun army are between 25,000 and 40,000.

>vast majority of estimates for the Byzantine army are between 80,000 and 150,000,
>vast majority

>>2952532
muslims were always outnumbered at least 3 to 1 in most of their wars

>>2952532
Quantity is not quality. Plus the wikipedia sources are more than a decade old. The fact is the most recent numbers I've heard about place the roman army around 50k and that is in line with modern estimates of the total army of the empire at that time.

The point is not to slander the memory of Walid, nor pretend the Romans didn't have a numerical advantage over the Rashiduns, just make it clear that the Empire was in no state to fight back after Yarmouk, which was their one shot at getting rid of the Arabs due to already being stretched thin economically and militarily. The Arab victory was a game changing historical event and was most impressive, but once Yarmouk was said and done, there was nothing much standing in their way, and it wasn't as much of a David vs Goliath situation as a David vs a bed ridden Goliath's last healthy guard dog situation.

>>2952377
Those are peacetime figures

There are historians who literally give 130k+ figures after the byzantines lost half their lands

Seriously start providing hard sources with specific dates and battles or be dismissed, and make it a mix of contemporary and modern sources. I don't want to hear any contrarian propaganda or about how Arabs are savages, if you can't provide sources unironically go to /pol/ and start a circlejerk thread there and they will all clap for you.

>>2952438
>raids

you forgot the bit where they lost half their ground in 30 years, lad.

>>2952473
>turning enemy citizens of different religion into 3rd class

Literally name me a few times where this happened in pre-modern history, this was generous for the standard of those days. Some other conqueror would've slaughtered them.

>>2952513
>15 years of arab civil wars

So the Arabs were exhausted just like the Byzantines are? what now, Byzantinboo?

>>2952495
Not true. They banned (((Christians and Jews))) from their holiest sites. In places they lived before them. That's not equal to me.

>>2952565
>Quantity is not quality.
True true.
>The fact is the most recent numbers I've heard about place the roman army around 50k and that is in line with modern estimates of the total army of the empire at that time.
>fact
Mind posting it? I've usually read the opposite friend.
>The point is not to slander the memory of Walid, nor pretend the Romans didn't have a numerical advantage over the Rashiduns, just make it clear that the Empire was in no state to fight back after Yarmouk, which was their one shot at getting rid of the Arabs due to already being stretched thin economically and militarily. The Arab victory was a game changing historical event and was most impressive, but once Yarmouk was said and done, there was nothing much standing in their way, and it wasn't as much of a David vs Goliath situation as a David vs a bed ridden Goliath's last healthy guard dog situation.
I agree with you about Yarmouk being the last stand against the Muslims, but I feel like people are trying to misrepresent Walid's accomplishments.
Yeah the Roman's were weakened but that's not to say they were exhausted enough to be taken out by any ordinary horde like the posters here are suggesting. Especially considering that the Rashidun caliphate only suffered minimal losses in the battle.
But now that I think about it, it's pretty amazing when Muhammads 'message' came when it did. If he was never born it would have just been a footnote of two massive empires weakened in history.

>>2952646
How did Christians and Jews live for centuries in Jerausalem.

Explain.

>>2952646
Christians and Jews enjoyed freedom and their places of worship were protected.
Christians return the favour by shooting up Mosques

>>2952656
>yfw the crusaders massacred the citizens of most cities they stormed
>yfw they kicked out the jews of Jerausalem when they stormed in
>yfw they even cannibalized enemy dead
>yfw Saladin btfo'd them and brought the Jews and Christians back to their homes and protected their places of wroship
>assblasted crusaders sperg out and attack byzantines in butthurt fit
>byzantines greatly weakened by this and get conquered by ottomans

L O L
L
O
L

>>2952653
>How did Christians and Jews live for centuries in Jerausalem.
In absolute humiliation

>>2952656
You mean holy sites repurposed as Mosques? The fact that Arabs demand thanks for destroying peoples cultures is hilarious.

>>2952669
>t. American Evangelical Christcuck

>>2952669
>Absolute humiliation

Can you bring sources? also can you list me the number of pogroms in the history of Islamic-ruled Israel next to Pogroms in Europe?

>>2952669
umar ibn alkhatab was visiting a church in Jerusalem when time for the duhr prayer came.the priests told umar he could pray in the church to which he replied : "no,the muslims who will come after me may use it as an excuse and take your places of worship" he left the church,prayed on the stairs of the church,then wrote a letter protecting all churches and place of worship from being taken over by muslims


>took over place of worship

Fuck off to /pol/ you autist

>>2952707
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_of_non-Islamic_places_of_worship_into_mosques

It has a whole wiki page.

>>2952707
>,then wrote a letter protecting all churches and place of worship from being taken over by muslims
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_of_non-Islamic_places_of_worship_into_mosques#Biblical_holy_sites
>The Herodian shrine of the Cave of the Patriarchs, the second most holy site in Judaism, was converted into a church during the Crusades before being turned into a mosque in 1266 and henceforth banned to Jews and Christians.

"Equal"

>>2952730
>nitpicking

Ok I'll nitpick too

>The Dome of the Rock was erected in the late 7th century under the 5th Umayyad Caliph Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan at the site of the former Jewish Second Temple (or possibly added to an existing building Byzantine building dating the reign of Heraclius, 610–641).[5] After the capture of Jerusalem in the First Crusade (1099), the Dome of the Rock was given into the care of Augustinian Canons Regular, who turned it into a Christian church

Eternal /pol/ autist please leave, you're making a scene of yourself

>>2952627

>gets asked to source
>silence

That's him laid bare for your eyes gentlemen, the eternal greentexting /pol/ack with no knowledge aside from circulating memes across his containment board that he escaped from, /p*l/.

t. inbred south american redneck with one eye pointing the wrong direction and an extra finger with 25 cousins living under the same roof sustaining themselves on cattle meat and praying to god like a bunch of delusional religiionkeks with trump posters everywhere.

Neck yourself fairytale believer.

>>2952766
>who turned it into a Christian church

Good, they built it on top of a holy site. They insulted Christianity on it.

>>2947861
I agree

>>2952777
>when the /pol/ack is stuck THIS deep in his hole of shit

STOP REPLYING TO THE BAIT

HE KNOWS HE LOST, NOW HE WANTS TO BAIT AND CHANGE TOPIC

DONT FEED THE AUTIST

>>2952784
There's a difference. Muslims had never had the lands they took. Christians took back what had already been taken.

>>2949470
>Al-Khawarizmi
Persian
>Al-Hazen
Moor
>Ibn Khaldun
North African

LOL ARABS BTFO

>>2952811
>golden age of Islam
>"so that means arabs right? HAHA ARABS BTFO"

t. brainlet

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>>2952818
>t. Shlomo/Muhammad

IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH ISLAM THO LOL ISLAM ISNT A RACE THEY WERE ATHEISTS. HAHA SCIENCE IS ISLAMIC BUT TERRORISM ISN'T? LOL

>>2952818
>responding to bait

you're the brainlet here

>>2952822
t.pajeet kashmir chandragupta

>>2949638
>>2949609
>Christkeks never destroyed knowledge
Some of the most accurate accounts of Alexander the Great have been lost to history. The most accurate after that are secondary sources like Arrian of Nicomedia writing about primary sources (now lost) about Alexander the Great.

Historical documents, as well as treatises on medicine, have been lost to history on many occasions. To suggest otherwise is willful ignorance. Take a fucking history class.

>>2952627
>Those are peacetime figures
The byzantine army was a highly professional business, peacetime figures and wartime figures would not vary that greatly.

>There are historians who literally give 130k+ figures after the byzantines lost half their lands
That sounds like a lot, and I wouldn't mind some sources either. it may however be related to how the Themes were structured after the loss of the east. Even then the largest theme, the Anatolian theme was said to have around 15k men under arms according to arab sources.
Hard to believe the whole empire could have 130000 trained fighting men when its largest subdivision could only field 15k men total according to ancient sources.

In addition I'm not the poltard from early on, and I've got other matters to deal with than to provide sources right now.

Tbh apart from what I heard on the HofB, I also got the sources about the army figures from https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-many-troops-did-each-army-field-at-yarmouk.787845/

Feel free to research further the historians that are quoted there.

>>2952766
>gets asked to source
>silence

>It is absolutely inconcievable that people don't spend 24/24h of their time answering arguments on a Pakistani knitting blog.

>>2952878

>the byzantine army was a highly professional business
>PEACETIME FIGURES AND WARTIME FIGURES WOULD NOT VARY GREATLY

never discarded an opinion so fast, you're the same autist from earlier and you've repeatedly made it sunlight-clear you're shit on history, the statement above is a solid proof.

>last response you'll get from me until you list a bunch of hard sources from the time + compilation of modern historians instead of a videogaming forum which contains the exact same shit you ctrl+v'd over here earlier with peacetime figures

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>>2952878
>the byzantine army was professional
>professional

lmao

There were literally no professional militaries after the decline of the Romans and descent into dark ages (ty christkeks), structural organisation isn't the defining core of "professional" otherwise even barbarian celts or some germanian mudhut tribes would be professional armies.

>provides link to a forum with one historian quoted that he already copy-pasted earlier

L M A O why are you back to get btfo'd again dude?

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>>2952903
>>2952896
>he deploys bait
>chimps go for it

>>2952878
>when the samefag is this blatantly obvious but says "not him"

Are you even trying anymore? your link has the same stuff you pasted earlier above

>inb4 deletes posts

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>>2952878
You got btfo'd yesterday, stop dragging this dead horse.

>>2952432
>decimation of the persians
>Heraclius
He couldn't defeat Shahrabaraz who stalemated him several times in the final stages of the war and had to make a separate pact and peace treaty with him a full YEAR after hostilities ended to get the Persians to peacefully evacuate their military garrisons out of Syria and Egypt.

>>2952495
>>2952646
They gave them protection but not equal rights.

This is well known in Andalusia where Andalusian Christians were not allowed to proselytize in public, let alone carry a bible.

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>>2952822
Back to /pol/ with your obnoxious writing, trumptard

>>2953011
Proselytizing Christians would be against the interests of Islam of course it would be prohibited. It would be counted as poisoning the minds of young muslims

>>2952878
>In addition I'm not the poltard from early on, and I've got other matters to deal with than to provide sources right now.

lol

>>2952707
LOL
That story is literally an admission that Muslims steal holy sites!
>High Muslim muckety muck deliberately avoids going to a church to avoid providing an excuse to seize it
>This is somehow evidence Muslims don't steal holy sites
>The kuffar is expected to be thankful that the High Muslim muckety muck didn't provide an excuse to seize the church!
LOL

>>2953121
>hate muslims and hate islam
>get rounded up in the same group as this autistic 12 year old regularly

>>2953136
>hate Muslims
Yeah I'll bet you do, that's why you think I'm a "retarded 12 year old" for pointing out that this supposedly profound demonstration of Muslim good will is nothing of the sort.

It's like some tankie used an anecdote of Marshall Zhukov avoiding a German village because he knows the Red Army will rape everyone there, as evidence that the Red Army doesn't rape people!

>>2953176
No it's really not, you're just a nice little memeball with every single stereotype about trumpfags, polfags, and a big chunk of autism all glued together.

It's actually saddening to see someone who embodies the meme so perfectly.

>>2952811
>Al-Hazen
>Moor
Al-Hazen was born in fucking Basra. A city that was founded and populated by the Arabs during the Rashidun Caliphate. He was as Arab as anyone was going to get. Also do you know what a fucking Moor is?

>>2953185
Oh and I forgot to add up you're a shameless samefag, and samefags should spend an eternity in hell being tortured by the devil, and on top of it all you don't even try to hide it.

>The historian Waqidi writes that after the battle of Battle of Maraj-al-Debaj, Emperor Heraclius sent an ambassador to ask Khalid to return his daughter. The ambassador gave Khalid the letter from the Emperor which read as follows:[128]

>'I have come to know what you have done to my army. You have killed my son-in-law and captured my daughter. You have won and got away safely. I now ask you for my daughter. Either return her to me on payment of ransom or give her to me as a gift, for honour is a strong element in your character. ”
>Khalid said to the ambassador:

>''Take her as a gift, there shall be no ransom.”
>The ambassador took the daughter of Heraclius, and returned to Antioch.

Based Khalid Ibn Al-Walid.

>>2953230
see?

>>2953230
this kills the pol poster

>>2953205
>shameless samefag
LOL
It must break your heart that Islam is such a universally despised religion, that you can't fathom the idea that more than one Islamophobe would come to an "Islam Fuck Yeah!/Kuffar BTFO" thread and shitpost.

>>2953268
Except I don't shitpost or act like a sperg

I'm an ex-muslim and currently atheist and not a fan of Islam because I didn't enjoy my past life in a predominantly-muslim country

This guy is either retardation in its purest form or just baitposting.

>>2953287
Nice try pleasing the atheist man.
There's so many of you here
*tips fedora*

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>>2949879
>>2949873
Byzantiboo BTFO

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>>2953295
>>2953295
>Thinks fedoras are for atheists
>Not for MUH GUY WITH SUPERPOWERS WE NEVER SEEN WILL PUT YOU KIDS IN HIS OVEN IF YOU DONT BE NICE TO HIM KIDS

>tries to fight muslims
>numerical advantage
>organizational advantage
>better equipped army with much better metallurgy and state furnished weapons
>more animals and horses
>goes 0-99
>lose half of empire
>getting slapped so hard you call your sworn enemy to help you
>raise another giant hoard but too afraid of counterattacking levant because how hard you got btfo'd in the past

>Although it is believed that relations between Umar and Khalid, cousins, were always something short of cordial, both of them apparently harboured no ill-will towards each other. Upon his death, he bequeathed his property to Umar and made him the executor of his will and estate.[116]

>Within less than four years of his dismissal, Khalid died and was buried in 642 in Emesa, where he lived since his dismissal from military services. His tomb is now part of a mosque called Khalid ibn al-Walid Mosque. Khalid's tombstone depicts a list of over 50 victorious battles that he commanded without defeat (not including small battles).[117] It is said that he had wanted to die as a martyr in the field of battle, and was apparently disappointed when he knew that he would die in bed.[118] Khalid expressed the pain of this sadness through one last, anguished sentence:

>I've fought in so many battles seeking martyrdom that there is no spot in my body left without a scar or a wound made by a spear or sword. And yet here I am, dying on my bed like an old camel. May the eyes of the cowards never rest.[119]

>—Khalid ibn Walid
Damn. dude was Viking-tier hardcore. Guy was actually sad he didn't die in battle.

>>2953027
"Frankly" speaking, your French president is no better than Trump. he's fucking perverted cuck with oedipus complex.

>>2953287
I admit I'm shitposting but no harder than the Muslims in this thread, so what's the problem?

>>2949782
>>2950090
>>2950421
>>2950448
>>2950456
>>2950552
>>2953121
>>2953176
>>2953268
These are the sum total of my posts in this thread. Do they truly seem that egregious to you compared to all the other shit in here?

>>2953268
>It must break your heart that Islam is such a universally despised religion,
Not at all considering it's the largest second Religion in the world.

>>2953448
Not to mention the fastest growing Religion.

>>2953448
It's the first religion.

>>2953402
>Do they truly seem that egregious to you compared to all the other shit in here?
Absolutely. At least the rest here bother to back up their arguments seriously with sources. Not just constantly shitpost like yourself have admitted to.

>>2953501
I have not made a single claim in this thread (aside from saying that Hittites>Ottomans, which is subjective opinion anyway), all I have done is post uncharitable interpretations of the sources provided by others, in order to show their sources are not as clearcut as they imply. I don't need to provide a source when I'm literally using the sources provided in this thread.

There's no point in further communication with you if you're going to pretend the pro-Muslim shitposters are paragons of honesty, posting peerless sources of unassailable validity and I'm somehow an asshole for undermining their interpretations of those sources. Intellectually dishonest people like you are why I shitpost, instead of wasting my time trying to take the intellectual high-road.

>>2953619
>loses first argument
>disappears
>comes back
>"SAMEFAGS HAHA"
>starts new argument
>gets asked for sources
>silent
>disappears
>returns
>"muh philosophy, muh shitposts, muh im not even taking you seriously, muh im not that guy but but but"

Get the fuck out, please.

>>2953619
>I have not made a single claim in this thread
>That only lends support to the claim that the Islamic Golden Age is a myth
>Islam is such a universally despised religion
Sorry, but you are outright lying.

>>2953671
>stopped posting both times he got asked to stop shitposting and start sourcing
>"im not him guys hehe this isnt even my final form xd"

>>2953671
>>2953688
and this is why /pol/ is unironically a better discussion board than /his/, the IDs prevent dismissing everyone that disagrees with you as a samefag.

Everytime I come back to this thread people get more aggressive, and yet I see no more sources than the second hand shit I provide. I am not pompous enough to think I know more than you lot, and obviously by your attitude I gather you are more well versed than I am in the matter, yet on the matter at hand, all I have seen is material I could find on wikipedia.


>>2952914
Goddamnit yes that was me, I'm just saying I wasn't the obvious poltard at the beginning of the thread, are you thick or just pretending my posts are even mildly similar to those from the dude who was saying >literally who when talking about averroes.

>>2952896
Discarding sources because they are posted on a video game forum isn't a smart move either.
Especially when they provide more sources re the number of troops than the wikipedia page which is the only place you seem to have pulled info from up to now.

And please go ahead, refute that the byzantine field army in the seventh century's backbone was made up of professional soldiers with training behind their belt, as you point out I'm no historian and will gladly accept your evidence.

>>2952903
>ctrl-v is a crime

Yet you have no refutation of the numbers provided, and no one has btfo'd me with solid sources and evidence of their claims.

>>2953679
>"your source can actually support a different claim entirely depending on how you interpret it..."
>HURRR YOU HAVE A SOURCE FOR THAT CLAIM?

>"This is my opinion"
>LOL WHERE'S YOUR SOURCE POL BTFO

You people are just sad.

>>2953812
These are my posts btw:
>>2952027
>>2952107
>>2952143
>>2952377
>>2952469
>>2952522
>>2952565
>>2952878
>>2953812

Anyway I'm off again, don't know If i'll be back before the morning, I've never seen such aggressive attitude on /his/ before.

>>2953813
>"This is my opinion"
Not even once did you state those posts were your own opinion. You simply stated them as if thy were facts without bringing any sources, while your adversaries have backed their arguments with plenty of sources and you simply decided to ''interpret'' their sources differently, without challenging them with your own sources to refute them. All this while you were continuing your Insufferable shitposting.

>>2953837
>I've never seen such aggressive attitude on /his/ before.
/his/ is /pol/ with dates. If you mention Muslims or Islam in any positive shape or form. You bet your life they are going to get aggressive.

>>2953912
the funny thing is that he's the contrarian on this argument but asks for sources on what's already established.

>>2953785
on paper? yes.
In practice? no, /pol/ is a complete cesspit for degeneracy.

>>2953837
Honestly I'm having a hard time believing this, but whatever.

>>2953912
>those posts
>plural
I only stated that Islam is the most unpopular religion in the world in one post you dishonest shit, and if you can't see how that's a statement of subjective opinion then you need to up your meds.

Oh wait sorry, I forgot there's no pill to cure stupid.

>>2953837
>/pol/ack in full damage control mode

>>2953972
Get it through your thick "former Muslim" skull that not everyone in this thread is the same person.

>/pol/ is a cesspit
Only because butthurt leftists go there to shitpost and "troll" for (you)s. It's 4chan, every board here is a degenerate abusive shithole when compared to a mainstream web equivalent.
Why?
because the people that post there are 4chan anon with all the personal defects that implies, and 4chan anon don't magically stop being 4chan anon when they change boards.

>>2953983
>I only stated that Islam is the most unpopular religion in the world
No. You stated that the Islamic Golden Age is a myth, and that even if it wasn't a myth, it wouldn't matter because all of the scientists were Persians, even though people have provided sources to proof that they weren't all Persians and many of them were Arab.
>Oh wait sorry, I forgot there's no pill to cure stupid.
Ah yes, Ad Hominem. The oldest trick in the book.

>>2954049
>You stated that the Islamic Golden Age is a myth,
Wrong, I stated that bringing up a famous Persian intellectual is not evidence of an "Islamic Golden Age", as Persia has been famed for it's intellectual pursuits long before it became Muslim.

In order to prove an " Islamic Golden Age" one must first prove that Islam SPECIFICALLY caused a boom of intellectual creativity, posting famous intellectuals from Muslim lands does not do this. As I said before no one calls the Renaissance the "Christian Golden Age" even though it occurred entirely among Christians living under Christian governments, and much if it's artwork was Christian in nature. So why exactly then should I unquestioningly accept the "Islamic Golden Age" to be Islamic?

>>2954092
>In order to prove an " Islamic Golden Age" one must first prove that Islam SPECIFICALLY caused a boom of intellectual creativity, posting famous intellectuals from Muslim lands does not do this
The Muslim scientists, including the Persian ones. Have stated plenty of times in their own books, that the Surrahs from the Koran are what inspired them to seek Science and knowledge. There are entire sects and schools
of jurisprudence like the Mu'tazilites who are devoted to Science and knowledge. Most of the scientists from the Islamic Golden Age, like Al-Hazen and Khwarizmi belonged to the Mu'tazilite school of thought. The Ash'ari school
of thought which placed emphasis on tradition, revelation and occasionalism have wiped out the Mu'tazilites though. which was one of the main reasons, along with the Mongol invasions. why the Islamic Golden Age has ended.

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>>2954170
I genually wonder why you lose your time trying to instruct this litteral retard.

I'm trying to sound too r/atheist but how much better would the world be right now if we didn't have religion to justify radical, irrational and backwards beliefs like this anon said >>2947861

>>2954170
I wonder if the Mu'tazilite school of thought would have lead to an arabian version of the Age of Enlightenment.

>>2954216
It definitely would've.
>Mutazilites based the analysis of all religious texts and doctrines to be analysed by sane mind and solid logic and if there is a discrepancy then the texts or doctrines should be rejected. This part alone made them the enemy of state and orthodox Muslims who conservatively follow the Hadith and Tafsirs. Fragments of Ketab e Zummorud indicates that during and after Abbasid rule many of these thinkers were executed under their heresy laws.
>The Mu'tazilis had a nuanced theory regarding reason, Divine revelation, and the relationship between them. They celebrated power of reason and human intellectual power. To them, it is the human intellect that guides a human to know God, His attributes, and the very basics of morality. Once this foundational knowledge is attained and one ascertains the truth of Islam and the Divine origins of the Qur'an, the intellect then interacts with scripture such that both reason and revelation come together to be the main source of guidance and knowledge for Muslims. Harun Nasution in the Mu'tazila and Rational Philosophy, commented on Mu'tazili extensive use of rationality in the development of their religious views saying: "It is not surprising that opponents of the Mu'tazila often charge the Mu'tazila with the view that humanity does not need revelation, that everything can be known through reason, that there is a conflict between reason and revelation, that they cling to reason and put revelation aside, and even that the Mu'tazila do not believe in revelation. But is it true that the Mu'tazila are of the opinion that everything can be known through reason and therefore that revelation is unnecessary? The writings of the Mu`tazila give exactly the opposite portrait. In their opinion, human reason is not sufficiently powerful to know everything and for this reason humans need revelation in order to reach conclusions concerning what is good and what is bad for.

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>>2949409

>Implying that fact has anything to do.

We had you on your fucking knees begging for mercy many times Mehmed, only for the anglo to save you multiple times. But now the anglo and burger are dying, and your time is running out.

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>>2949517

> Al Khwarizmi
>Name literally means "of Khwarazim"

Khwarizam is a region of Northern Persia, he wasn't a fucking Arab Ahmed.

>>2954326
No where did i claim he was Arab you waste of sperm.

>>2954307
>and your time is running out.
The only one who's time is running out is the Greeks. There are more Turks in Istanbul than there are Greeks in the whole of Greece.
>We had you on your fucking knees begging for mercy many times Mehmed.
yeah sure. that's why the Byzantine Empire kept paying us tribute not to invade them.
>only for the anglo to save you multiple times.
The only one the Angols aided are the Greeks. Once Ataturk marched on Istanbul, the Anglos tried to stall time so more reinforcements can come to defend them. Ataturk however saw through their bullshit.

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>>2954364
Arabs BTFO by indians.

>>2954393
And in the end. The Mughals conquered India with Pakistan and Bangladesh being Muslim countries to this day. GG.

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>>2954364
>The only one who's time is running out is the Greeks. There are more Turks in Istanbul than there are Greeks in the whole of Greece.
Not Greek Mehmed

>yeah sure. that's why the Byzantine Empire kept paying us tribute not to invade them.

Oh wow, you killed an empire with one city left that had been totally stripped of wealth by C*tholic Crusaders and even after defeating them was getting invaded by literally all of its neighbors, very impressive. Do you want me to post the image macros of Selcucks getting btfo by a functioning empire aka the Komeneoi?

>The only one the Angols aided are the Greeks.

hmmmmmmmmmmmm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Turkish_War_(1877–1878)#Intervention_by_the_Great_Powers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Turkish_War_(1768–1774)#Mediation_and_ceasefire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Balkan_War#Great_Powers

>>2954170
>Have stated plenty of times in their own books, that the Surrahs from the Koran are what inspired them to seek Science and knowledge.
and?
You think the intellectuals of the Renaissance didn't claim inspiration from Christianity?

It's all well and good that there was a once a heretical Islamic school of thought that encouraged intellectual exploration, but that still doesn't make the "Islamic Golden Age" Islamic. Humanism arose as a school of thought encouraged by the Catholic Church, but as I said before no one uses that as justification to claim the Renaissance was a manifestation of Christian intellectual exploration. Typically it's painted as the opposite, as a secular rebellion against the stultifying strictures of repressive Christianity, in spite of it's encouragement at all levels of the church.

There is literally no reason to view the "Islamic Golden Age" differently, and grant the achievements that occurred under it to Islam.

>>2952056
Real talk. If Europe actually became islamified, Arabs would view them as not being real Muslims. Imagine Albania but somehow even less religously observent. It'd be just like those liberal token Muslims being gay married in Sweden.

>>2954414
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_War
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Turkish_War_(1877–1878)#Intervention_by_the_Great_Powers
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Turkish_War_(1768–1774)#Mediation_and_ceasefire
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Balkan_War#Great_Powers
I was talking about the Greco-Turkish war of 1919-1922 you
insufferable Imbecile.

>>2954490
Most of the worlds muslim countries are less religiously observant than the saudis. There's plenty of trannies and shit in those countries and nobody bats an eye.
There's plenty of trannies in pakistan.
Still they'll be called muslim countries and that's all that matters. You can't reach 100% adherence but you can try.

>>2954494

And i'm talking about all the other times Constantinople would have been retaken, you stupid Turk.

>>2954490
In my experience, europeans that accept islam are better muslims than arab muslims themselves. I live in europe and I've seen plenty of europeans that have converted. They fast throughout ramadan and pray 5 times a day. Regular born muslims don't do those things.

>>2949486
If he was an Andalusian, aren't you literally proving his point that arabs piggybacked off other people. Like Iberians?

>>2954467
>no one uses that as justification to claim the Renaissance was a manifestation of Christian intellectual exploration.
They literally do. Christians claim it all the fucking time and people take it for granted. If the Renaissance is because of Christianity then the Islamic Golden Age is absolutely because of Islam.
>You think the intellectuals of the Renaissance didn't claim inspiration from Christianity?
Yes. The intellectuals of the Renaissance outright state in their own works that their inspiration came from the Greek and Roman works that they discovered.

>>2954490
Sweden just needs to be nuked. Even the Muslims there aren't Conservative.

>>2954509
Converts are much likely to be devoted to their Religion, than people who inherited their Religion from their parents. that much is true in any Religion. Not just Islam.

>>2954413
>The Mughals conquered India with Pakistan and Bangladesh
>couldnt conquer the Ahoms in the north east
>lost to Maratahas
>couldnt conquer South India fullt
>couldnt advance past the Ghats
>couldnt retain the empire
>became a vassal to the British.
>over 80% of india is Hindu
Bangaldesh and Pakistan are pretty much failed states that compirse some 20% of greater india I dont understand where the pride or 'conquered india' nonsense is from?

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>>2954663
>I dont understand where the pride or 'conquered india' nonsense is from?

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>>2954663
>Bangaldesh and Pakistan are pretty much failed states
>Implying India isn't a failed state too.

>>2954727
You could argue for india being a failed state but most would disagree since India is a major economic factor in international trade, Pakistan and Bangaldesh is neither.
>>2954699
Oh wow, an assumptive map of influence which is not 100% accurate! Does not ever cover all of india, you sure made yourself look like a mulsim...i mean idiot.

>>2954699
Also the Mauryans conquered as much, so Hindus won. Muslims just tried to emulate them and failed miserabl as their empire barely lasted over 50 years at its greatest extent.

>>2954815
>India is a major economic factor in international trade,
No that hard to do when you have more than one Billion poo in loo slaves to do your sweatshop labor.

>>2954850
As opposed to muslims blowing themselves up in other peoples countries and imposing your shitty religion and uneducated inbred masses on them?

Why are you so deluded to your own failures? Why are you such a idiot...i mean Muslim?

>>2946685
Was God on Alexanders, Caesars, Both Scipio's, Arminius', Sun Wu's, Sun Bin's, and literally hundreds of other generals side?

>>2947383
Persians did everything good. Islam ruined everything.

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>>2955060
Lol. Pajeet got so mad and triggered, that he started deluding himself that i'm Muslim. Your country is a literal shithole.

>>2955089
Such a butt hurt muslim answer, a dirty muslim is always a muslim.

>>2955105
>Such a butt hurt muslim answer, a dirty muslim is always a muslim.
Yeah keep telling yourself that. Lol.

>>2953785
/pol/ is a cancerous place where people should stay, but IDs would definitely help keep things from getting chaotic

>>2955112
You keep being a dirty muslim.

>>2955137
>thinks eurocentric nonsense /his/ is not cancerous.
Check yoself nigga.

>>2955361
nah, /his/ is actually a pretty diverse place. That's just cross-board contamination, we do have a pretty severe case of it.

>>2955359
It's alright Pajeet. It's alright. Being the world capital of Dysentery and Rape is okay and all those people criticising us are just dirty Mooslims. Lol.

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>>2946685
Yes. It's the proof Muhammad (pbuh) was chosen to be the last Messenger of Allah. All the holy sites are in Muslim hands and will remain in Muslim hands until the end times. We mock the Kafir on their holiest sites. Why would Allah allow us to do it if he wasn't right?

>>2952478
That largely depends on what Muslim Empire you're actually referring to. It's pretty well documented that non Muslims paying the Jizyah tax in the Ottoman Empire could be legally abused by their Muslim neighbors. The only real "protection" offered to Christians and Jews was the fact that they didnt want to force convert them and lose all that sweet tax money. There's documentation of abuse of Christians in Islamic Egypt throughout pretty much all of it's history since the Arab conquest as well.
I don't think you'd describe the Ottoman Christian subjects as being "equal" legally senpai :'(

>Non Muslims forbidden to ride a horse of camel
>Their homes cannot overlook that of a Muslim.
>Jannisary blood tax
>Majority of Christian Byzantine Churches destroyed of converted into mosques
>Testimony against Muslims by Christians and Jews was inadmissible in courts of law wherein a Muslim could be punished; this meant that their testimony could only be considered in commercial cases.
>Could not rebuild houses of worship
>Armenian Christians often abused by Muslim Circassians and Kurds, yet the legal status of Christians meant they could not testify against their attackers

>>2953448
lol only you(arabs) practicve this shit religion and everyone despise you

I hope america fall so china can nuke you

>>2956735
>only you arabs

There are a billion arabs?

>>2949860
So you say that fall both of Roman and Sassanid were similar to fall of Aztec and Inca?

>>2956774
there are a billion of arab-minded people

>>2952643
but im an Arabboo.

The Arab civil wars were different, their problem was they had too many troops ready, willing and wanting to fight, they had civil war but they were not broken they were very strong, but they got directed into Byzantine lands instead of fighting each other, pretty wise of Umar.

This thread seems to have degerated into some /pol/tard shit about Islam being literal Satanism instead of a cool historical discussion

>>2957185
that's two billion soon

>>2954204
Not that much better, people would just find something else to kill in the name of.

>>2953972
He actually cited a historian's figures on Byzantine troop counts while you've continued to rely on ancient historians making Herodotus-tier estimates. Your shitty behavior and inability to understand how a state functions has led me to believe that the Byzantines had far less men at the Battle of Yarmouk than I originally thought. Honestly, I've never seen such aggressive behavior, even from people who know that they're having a hard time winning an argument.

I mean, think about it. With those estimates at Yarmouk, the Byzantines would have to scrounge every soldier they had. Do you really think that Heraclius would have left the entire western frontiers unguarded against Berbers, Avars, Slavs, etc., in order to fight off the Arabs? That's such an idiotic move because if he lost, the entire empire falls apart, and that's not even talking about the raids he would suffer on some of his most valuable provinces after removing their garrison.

He had totally legitimate points and you never, EVER addressed them. You're not fooling anybody here by crying /pol/. I don't think anybody is downplaying the numbers out of their hatred for Islam, but rather it seems like you're upscaling the numbers out of your fear of being called a racist.

This is like the 5th thread I've seen this week that was ruined by some faggot retard going on a /pol/ witchhunt instead of contributing to the discussion. Honestly, you moralfags are a thousand times worse than /pol/acks because you try so much harder to shit up threads and fish for (You)s. If they ban /pol/, I hope to God that they ban you faggots too, so we wouldn't be spammed with threads and posts about how "great" this board is without /pol/, sliding all of the content-full threads and posts in the process.

>>2954527
>Christians claim it all the fucking time and people take it for granted.
>implying anyone listens to Christians in 2017

Christianity is the last thing people think of when it comes to the Renaissance.

>>2947445
So, like, their own Dark Ages?

>>2958146
>he he he

Why are you back to get btfo again?

>you are fooling nobody

I can't fool anybody with general consensus anon.

>>2958146
>Do you really think that Heraclius would have left the entire western frontiers unguarded against Berbers, Avars, Slavs, etc., in order to fight off the Arabs?
Absolutely. The Berbers, Avars, and Slavs didn't have an army of zealots who thought the leader that was leading them was the literal Sword of God and thought they were going to heaven once they die for him. The Berbers, Avars, and Slave also weren't invading the most fertile and Breadbasket region of the empire, Egypt.

>>2947383
Peaked too early. The Islamic world is the kid who used to get honor roll in elementary and middle school and then just barely passed high school only to drop out of college and go on to live a shitty wage slave life for most of their 20s only to finally start to get their shit together (kind of) now in their 30s but their still drastically behind their peers.

>>2958382
I'm not the same person you retard. You literally sound like a schizophrenic.

>>2958561
>Exact same responses
>Extremely defensive
>Exact same writing style
>Notorious samefagger caught in the act 3 times before

Samefags deserve a bullet, bad-samefags deserve a crate of cyanide.

>>2958473
Egypt is not worth the rest of the entire empire. Even a child knows not to put all of their eggs in one basket. Other regions would rebel, get burnt to the ground, or get colonized by barbarians Heraclius stole their garrison and effectively abandoned them to fight the invading Arab army.

>>2946685
>Why could no one beat him?
Never heard of him.
>Was God really on his side?
No. There is no "god".

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>>2958566
Anybody would be defensive against a fucking retard accusing them of being somebody else like a madman. I'm not the same person you literal autist.

>>2958569
>Egypt is not worth the rest of the entire empire.
It absolutely is, and the Arabs didn't just invade Egypt. They invaded and took Egypt, North Africa, Syria, the Levant and the Caucasus region. The ''Byzantine Empire'' after the Arab invasions was basically Anatolia and the Balkans. I'm sorry, but your argument is just invalid. The Arabs weren't just raiding like the Slavs, Berbers and Avars. They were ouright invading and trying to destroy the Byzantine Empire. So yes, i believe Heraclius treated them as a bigger threat than the Avars, Slavs and Berbers.

>>2946685
Because he was the second best general behind Subutai

>>2957985
>two billion soon

lol no

once the oil run out you're gonna stave to death cause there will be no money to pay for your food

You're worthless and lazy and nature is merciless against your kind

>>2959402
>once the oil run out you're gonna stave to death cause there will be no money to pay for your food
3 billion soon

>>2959402
>once the oil run out you're gonna stave to death cause there will be no money to pay for your food
Mate. Indonesia is the most populated Muslim country in the world and they don't have Oil. You're deluding yourself if think Muslims are going to start dying like flies once the Oil runs out.

>>2958610
Provide real historical precedent for an empire leaving it's borders undefended to fight a single enemy.

>>2960246
The Byzantine empire.

>>2947383
>What happened to Islam?

Islam did.

>>2954502
It wasn't though so go suck a dick faggot.