why has premartial sex increased dramatically the past half century?

>>2944676
It probably hasn't increased as much as you think it is, because it's become much more open and less stigmatized in the west today due to the sexual revolution. The major cause in its increase is probably that nobody's getting married anymore, whereas most people before the sexual revolution were getting married in their late teens.

consumerism

Birth control, urbanization and mass media normalization.

>in b4 the "people were always hedonistic libertines things were always exactly the same" crowd shows up

>>2944727
/thread

>>2944727
Mostly the first one.

>>2944676
Decline of Christianity

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>>2944676
In America, it actually hasn't.

>>2944771
>1967 was 50 years ago

>>2944676
jews
degeneracy
ZOG
judeo-bolshevism
good guys lost wwii
zionist globalism
60s
capitalism
communism
I can go on but you get the (((point)))

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>>2944805
I wonder who could be behind this post.

>>2944812
you mean the background jew to the right of that based nimble navigator?

>>2944778
Well, it was.

Boomers are more promiscuous that either generation that followed them.

>>2944835
>1999 was 37 years ago

>>2944676
Birth control

And thank god for that using a condom sucks. They always come way too lubricated. I assume its for the circumcised Americans.

>>2944771
Man, the boomers really were the shittiest generation.

>>2944676
You mean gone down.

>>2944771
Hahaha y-yeah

>>2944771

Always thought Silent Generation was WWI but I guess that was the lost generation.

> Millions deploy to WWI
> 150k dead despite Americans joining at the very end of the war
> Euros get super AIDS flu
> A million dead in the US, population actually declines for the first time in history

> " USA didn't suffer at all from the war"

Off topic, just a pet peeve

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>>2944676

Why does it matter? Because you still aint getting none?

I mean for fuck's sake. Humans have been fucking without being married for millennium despite what the propaganda says.

Nuns and monks. Fucking all the time.

Kings and mistresses. Fucking all the time.

Peasants and burghers, fucking each other as soon as the girls bleed.

Victorians. Fucking all the time before marriage and with people they aren't married.

Sex after marriage is a fucking meme.

And I still bet you get no sex even then.

>>2944916
Silent gen are Korean war vets

>>2944923
>Why does it matter? Because you still aint getting none?
Every.
Time.

>>2944695
>probably
If you have to say "probably" then it's a bullshit sociology meme being pushed as a means of social engineering.

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>>2944937

Why does it matter? You will get robot waifu's in 20 years and no one will breed anymore for pleasure.

>>2944928
If the fedora fits.

It leads to divorce and dysfunctional marriages that make life harder for their children.

>>2944958
>just fuck a soulless robot like the good little unattractive subhuman you are while chad keeps a harem of 200 women

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>>2944975

That negates the concept of free will?

Either you have free will to decide your future or your upbringing determines what you do in life?

Which is it?

>>2944985
>which is it
>https://youtu.be/3z-a5hy7QO8
Literally you right now. Fuck off, retard.

>>2944985
Every action has a reaction, anyone can rise above that to be an initiator but that's not most people.

>>2944928
They lack the ability to comprehend the subtle yet diffuse effects sexual culture has on a civilisation.

>>2944985
Free will is a meme.

>>2945010
Reactions are themselves actions. The universe is a series of reactions. There is only one initiator.

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>>2945035

>>2945049
"Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way."

>>2944923
Everything was always the same XD

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>>2944841
>tfw

>>2944894
agreed

>>2944916
America's role in the war was so weird. We arguably tipped the scale back towards the Allies since we entered right as Russia was pulling out. Despite this, we had very little say about the peace process and everyone from Wilson to Congress was butthurt.

>>2945077
Can you prove it wrong without memeing it up?

>>2945104
The eternal GOP caused WW2 to happen by preventing the Fourteen Points from being implemented.

>>2944937
>tfw the word "probably" can break down a whole argument without the main point being addressed

>>2944923
Man my stupid boomer parents really fucked me up. They were hos. I know my mom was a ho in hs and they were swingers in the 80s and my mom was a ho afterward too. I remember once sitting in a car in Kentucky for hours while she banged some guy at a truck stop. Then my dad gets all Christiany because he did too much coke and prayed to Jesus to not have a heart attack. Right around the time I'm hitting puberty. I could've been getting blowies in 6th grade but I was tainted by the idea that people are supposed to wait until marriage. My town was full of hos while I was going after girls that were planning on waiting until marriage just to kiss. Idk wtf they were thinking making me stay away from sex and drugs and whatnot. Totally fucked up my shit. God my parents sucked. Idc if this has nothing to do with anything I'm glad my mom is dead and I wish my dad were too. Fucking druggie sociopaths couldn't've fucked me up harder if they tried with their boomer morality

>>2944923
>supporting degeneracy
People like you need to be culled.

>>2945122
I blame everyone that didn't support breaking up the German empire into its constituent states like Prussia, Saxony, Bavaria.

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>>2944727
People like sex and things were exactly the same.

Also, if we're so degenerate, how come prostitution was super legal in the oh-so-noble past then while nowadays its heavily restricted if not illegal outright?

Checkmate "moralfags."

>>2944771
>"Greatest" Generation
>Literally only fucking 3 people in their whole life
More like Lamest Generation amirite?

>>2944984
So it'd be the same as today except a humanoid robot with an AI like Siri instead of mr.hand?

>>2945209
How are you going to cull anyone if you can't even convince a woman to have sex with you?

>>2944984
>implying anyone can satisfy 2 women on a round the clock basis, let alone 200

>>2945209
Sex isn't degenerate. You're simply a manchild with a fear of intimacy.

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>>2945545
Yes anon there have always been prostitutes and they have always been from the dregs of society. The new phenomenon that we are experiencing today is educated young women from "normal" families having 10+ sexual partners before marriage.

>>2945846
Having sexual partners isn't prostitution.

>>2945846
>>2944771

>>2945846
>this is unique to this time period

proof?

>>2944676
it hasn't

>>2944676
Because women don't get married in their early teens anymore.

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>>2945856
No but it does affect one's brain chemistry and makes pair bonding more difficult.

>>2945861
Regardless of their morality, girls from well-to-do families simply couldn't afford having that much sex prior to the advent of readily available birth control because the possibility of pregnancy was too great.

>>2945889
>No but it does affect one's brain chemistry and makes pair bonding more difficult.
Sure, Jan.

>>2945545
Prostitutes were legal the same reason a cess pool exists: you keep the waste concentrated in one area and more manageable.

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>>2945894
How do you account for the facts contained in the attached .jpg?

>>2945911
People's standards for a partner increasing with every additional consensual sexual encounter they have. Realizing they have options. Marriage doesn't equal love or a happy, thriving relationship. When you have a better scope or experiences you're less likely to be complacent with a mediocre partner.

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>>2945930
So in other words a changed brain chemistry and difficulty paid bonding. I'm glad you agree.

>>2945941
We don't agree sadly. I'm merely explaining that marriage isn't actually a bond, at least not in the way you're saying. People cheat in marriages all the time. People who get divorced are more willing to admit publicly they aren't satisfied with their partner (be it emotionally or sexually), instead of staying married for pride's sake. Usually it's religious people who wait until marriage anyways, so it would make them lose face to divorce and be embarrassed in front of their purityfag peer groups.

You would rather believe in fantasies.

>>2944676
Because before people did it without admitting it, with a fuckton of killed babies and orphans. Moralfags like to believe that the things that happen now, did not exist before because it was done in secret.

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>>2945957
Regardless of whatever you think of marriage, taking someone's virginity forms a bond and this means those who are virgins until marriage start their married life off with a stronger foundation than someone who lost their virginity years ago.

>>2945911
What are you trying to say? Everyone should be married to virgin brides because it has the highest rate of success? Are you retarded?

Obviously if you control a woman sexually, she's more likely to be emotionally tethered to you whether she likes it or not. The conclusion we have raised in the last few generations is that controlling women, whether it be sexually, legally, etc is wrong.

>>2945911
>Heritage Study

It's trash

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>>2946010
Everyone is controlled sweetheart, it's part of living in a society and yeah kids who grow up in a stable two-parent heterosexual household out preform ((((nontraditional))) families by every metric.

>>2944676
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kali_Yuga

>>2945583
>masturbating with your hand or a pocket vagina is the same as projecting a perversion of an intimate sexual bond onto a robotic husk and fucking that

man the mental gymnastics you pathetic betas do to justify your degeneracy

>>2945995
[citation needed]

>>2946019
>Everyone is controlled sweetheart

What an effective way to not respond to what I said at all, while simultaneously being both edgy and patronizing. If you're just going to say stupid shit like this constantly, I won't even bother having a conversation with (You).

>yeah kids who grow up in a stable two-parent heterosexual household out preform ((((nontraditional))) families by every metric.

Yup, data supports this claim, it's widely accepted. Astronomical divorce rates are bad for a society. The solution to high divorce rates is not, however, forcing people to marry in their late teens/early 20s (aka when they are virgins) and forcing them to remain together because of societal expectations. It isn't necessarily a healthy, happy, or fulfilling relationship, is especially unfair and limiting to women, and gives the next generation fucked up attitudes towards marriage.

Not to mention there are obviously more things in life than breeding the most successful kids possible and taking steps to ensure that happens.

>>2946010
>The conclusion we have raised in the last few generations is that controlling women, whether it be sexually, legally, etc is wrong.

and having seen the results we are much wiser now than those who came before

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>>2946037
>being so jaded you don't even think your first time was special or see how it could be for other people

>>2946010
>The conclusion we have raised in the last few generations is that controlling women, whether it be sexually, legally, etc is wrong.
Why?

>>2946059
>especially unfair and limiting to women
boo fucking hoo
I mean heaven forbid the vapid whores actually fulfill their sole evolutionary function right?

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>>2946059
Why are you so on irritable? You should smile more :) and I never said anything about forcing people to get married in their late teens/early 20s, my argument is that people should wait until marriage to have sex because it increases the likelihood of a healthy environment for children.

>>2945817
Nice strawman.

>>2944937
Are you retarded. You think OP have a single evidence to back up his claim?

>>2946071
Men and women each only have a sole evolutionary function, you retard. Reproduction is the only reason we exist, biologically. Everything else are distractions and conveniences we created for ourselves. We should all be glad we've reached a stage where survival is not our sole purpose for living.

>>2946070
Controlling people in general is wrong? Regardless of what sex they are?

27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away; it is better for you to lose one of your members than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away; it is better for you to lose one of your members than for your whole body to go into hell.

>>2946082
>We should all be glad we've reached a stage where survival is not our sole purpose for living.
Bloodlines that genuinely feel this way are an evolutionary dead-end, doomed to extinction.

>>2946081
lol do you want OP to provide evidence that the sky is blue as well?

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>>2946085
>yfw

>>2946072
Personally, I don't really prioritize the well being of a child I don't even have yet. I'm going to put my own happiness and life before a hypothetical person. I wouldn't want to get married early or have a kid early for a whole multitude of reasons, if that affects my future child's well being so be it. Life is not that cut and dry.

>>2946085
Says who?

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>>2946097
You got me

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>>2946099
>I'm going to put my own happiness and life before a hypothetical person

Yes being selfish and shortsighted is your right as a liberated 21st century womyn.

>>2946099
>I don't really prioritize the well being of a child I don't even have yet.
>if that affects my future child's well being so
t. woman who smokes and drinks during pregnancy

>>2944916
silent generation are the people who were alive during ww2 but too young to fight in it, the name came from a statement Nixon made about the 1968 election where he said the "silent majority" was going to put him in office and he did extremely well with people who came of age in the mid 1940s to mid 1950s.

>>2946091
You're retarded friend. The fact that we (as in humanity) occupy our time with the arts or even stupid hobbies is amazing. You think the fact that Descartes wasn't just a walking sperm distributor isn't fantastic? That people have something to offer besides reproduction like everyone other animal?

>>2946110
>>2946116
So you guys both had several kids in your late teens, right? Since that's what we're discussing. You know, prioritizing reproduction based on muh stats rather than living something resembling a fulfilling life.

Not sure what's so selfish about not being married at 18 if I choose not to.

>t-trust me, the grapes are totally sour!
>c-cuck!
>jews are why I can't get laid!

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>>2946139
(((a fulfilling life)))

>>2946096
You're literally asking them to accept an argument based on >muh feels. Who's the one peddling bullshit sociology, them or you?

The original post you responded to made some decent observations. One, that casual sex was absolutely a thing before the sexual revolution (just read a fucking book from the 20s, jeezus dude), but it was taboo and consequently kept more under wraps so it's not part of our pop culture image of those decades; and that one of the reasons for whatever increase there has been is that the average age of marriage has also increased significantly. Which is true.

So tell me, what, exactly, do you even disagree with?

>>2946152
Notice how the only things I included in "fulfilling life" were 1) not having kids early, and 2) not being married early.

The fact that you decide that when I say "fulfilling life" I mean "prostituting myself because I'm a proud 21st century woman" is a strawman.

>>2944676
The coming generations are having surprisingly less sex then the previous ones. It has to do with the sexual revolution of the 60s, and modern oral birth control mostly.

>>2944695
Marriage rates are falling, but surprisingly divorce rates have also fallen and there is an increase in common-law relationships which have basically all the same rights and privileges granted to a marriage.

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>>2946171
That's nice dear.

>>2946199
I forgot to mention I'm a man, in case you want to switch it up and tell me the estrogen in the tap water has made me a cuck at a genetic level.

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>>2946206
Ok honey.

>>2946171
Don't be such a pig anon just because that proud independant woman is passed out in the street next to a garbage can doesn't mean she's a prostitute!

>>2946162
Common knowledge is not "muh feels".

>just read a book from those decades
>it's not part of our pop culture image of those decades
LOL

>So tell me, what, exactly, do you even disagree with?
What do you got, brainlet?

>>2946059
>The solution to high divorce rates is not, however, forcing people to marry in their late teens/early 20s (aka when they are virgins) and forcing them to remain together because of societal expectations.
Stating that it's better for to remain virgins until marriage is not the same thing as stating that they should be forced to married when they are virgins

Sex is degenerate only volcels can be considered people.

>>2946229
>just read a book from those decades
>it's not part of our pop culture image of those decades
>LOL
Yeah, amazingly enough our popular conceptions of certain decades can be at odds with what they were actually like, and consequently at odds with a lot of the literature from that period. Poll 100 people and maybe 10 of them will have read a book from the 20s, and 9 of them will have only read one (and it'll be The Great Gatsby).

It is just not that hard to find books from the early-to-mid 20th century containing pretty frank discussions of premarital sex.

>Common knowledge is not "muh feels".
It literally is.

>>2945995
I smell bullshit

>>2946229
If it's so common then go on and cite a source.

>>2946345
Actually never mind, I did say forced to marry, I'm retarded.

Reminder that marriage as an institution started dying when it became about love.

>>2945150
Nice blogpost, faggot.
But I get it, I was raised in the south by conservative, religious boomer parents. Church all the time, no secular influence (cause that's satan's influence), etc.
Between that and AIDS in the 80s, I thought sex would kill you and send you to hell. First time I had sex I used 2 condoms.
I blame my parents for me not losing my virginity until I was 21. Fuck boomers.

>>2946059
>is especially unfair and limiting to women
i'm not even /pol/ but at this rate women's freedom spells the doom for the West's future and by that token the liberty of future generations of Western women. While most women have always worked throughout history in one way or another, the problem now is that 1) rising living costs are making children expensive and continued economic stagnation offers them bleak prospect of social mobility or even keeping up with their parents' lifestyles and 2) women' collective education level has increased to the point that they recognize the burden of having kids. Basically, stupidity, faith, social pressure and restrictions on contraception to me seems the only way to fix this problem. Economic growth like the type that stimulated the baby boom is possible, but imo the economic growth needed to maintain this and the population pressure it's lead to will bring us a malthusian crisis. A third problem is that individualism has privileged careerism and hedonism, and so even if couples do have kids a generation lack any parental guidance and so develop mental problems. This also ties back to the idea of faith, because individualism means thinking in the short term, within the span of one's life time. Anything outside to the individual is, in effect, not his or her problem and might never have or will have existed. This inability to think about our collective future, or having a government that fails to ensure it, will lead to an aggregate of individual choices that will see the decline of Western "values", and the will to defend its interests. I don't mean to hint "muh immigrants," I only wish to point to the fact that, from my perspective, our whole world is living on borrowed time. I could be totally wrong desu.

>>2946099
So basically, you're going to have a baby when you "feel like it" without having made the proper financial preparations (or even life skills) for having one and creating a nurturing environment. Fuck you. And it's not just cause you're a women, but cause you lack the foresight to think about the future of your baby. The fact that you even contemplate having a child, and part of the child exists as an egg inside you, means that the baby doesn't need to exist to think about it. You have to plan the contingencies. And, what, you're only going to decide whether a baby will make you have once it comes out of you? You'll only like it if it comes out to your liking? You're not even planning to love it unconditionally?

> if that affects my future child's well being so be it.
you're either a clever troll, or you should be forcibly sterilized desu. having a child is only a manner of vanity to you, some kind of bauble that you can show off and throw away at your fancy. REEEEEEE

>>2946123
>You think the fact that Descartes wasn't just a walking sperm distributor isn't fantastic?
but he was anon, and I'm not even referring to the meme. Arts and hobbies have no objective meaning or value beyond their use as displays of reproductive value.

>>2946333
>It is just not that hard to find books from the early-to-mid 20th century containing pretty frank discussions of premarital sex.
Which is meaningless as pop-culture is not inherently an indicator of the sexual mores of an era.

Or do you disagree, and in fact believe future generations should consider our modern pop culture to be indicative of 21st century sexual practices, in which case I'm genuinely confused as to how you can simultaneously claim that it's unreasonable to state that premarital sex has increased dramatically in the past half century.

>>2945545
Rampant prostitution is a sign of a society with tight restrictions on peoples sex lives.


I know it sounds silly but the more prostitutes you have the less people are sleeping around. In western countries where prostitution is legal you'll find many brothels are struggling to make money because its easier than ever before to get "free" sex.

This means if ancient people were as liberal about sex outside of marriage etc as we are today then we wouldn't actually that many brothels in their societies.

>>2946369
>I blame my parents for me not losing my virginity until I was 21
Is there a race or something?
Do you genuinely believe your life would magically be more fulfilled if you had lost it earlier?

>>2946469
Makes sense, pussy can only be a commodity if people aren't giving it out for free.

>>2944676
Friendly reminder that bands of adolescent boys roaming the streets gang-raping women was a common occurence in most of european late middle age cities.

>>2946496
Source?
That sounds pretty fucked up.
Why weren't more people there to prevent them from sinning? Seems like it'd be a recipe for guaranteed damnation if they got caught in the act.

>>2944676
Various effective methods of contraception are readily and easily available.

>>2946469
>>2946478
At the same time, prostitution should be made legal for the sake of those sad sacks who can't get any otherwise and are too chicken to hire "escorts" off the internet. Why? Think about it; this thread would not have been derailed by some tedious and sexual frustrated idiot if said idiot could go and use some of his autismbux to hire a whore without needing to worry about being busted by the cops.

>>2946500
>>Why weren't more people there to prevent them from sinning? Seems like it'd be a recipe for guaranteed damnation if they got caught in the act.
Dude, what the fuck makes you think that religion actually functions as a check on that sort of behavior? The middle ages were chock full of war, murder, rape, robbery and arson interspersed with plague and famine to spice stuff up for when all the raping and killing got boring.

>>2946502
The only people hijacking this thread are the ones that would have us believe that virgin-shaming and attacks on sexual prowess are valid arguments

>>2946507
People were Christians in the middle ages though right?
Or was this just because the catholic church didn't read the scriptures at church in an understandable language and therefore they didn't know much about judgement and sin?
Besides they should have been praying through the hard times, not going around raping and killing people.

>>2946500
It was socially accepted or at worst merely ignored, sometimes even indirectly encouraged by their fathers. The women in question were usually of low social stature so no one really gave a fuck and after being raped they usually had to become prostitutes.

>>2946521
It's unbelivable how someone can be this fucking naive. You from the deep south or something?

>>2946533
Maybe if provided a source to your claims people would believe you Anon.

Because I don't believe that "bands of adolescent boys roaming the streets gang-raping women was a common occurence in most of european late middle age cities" was common either.

>>2946508
No. It's two specific groups of people, the people who like to bait the poltards, and the poltards themselves who derail threads like this. You seem to be in the latter category and are largely incapable of understanding how you are contributing to the problem.

>>2946558
I would agree with him, except I would go further.

The people that ruin these threads are:
>People that shame others sexual history or lack of sexual history
>People that bait /pol/
>/pol/ baiting people
>People that see /pol/ in threads when it doesn't exist and complain

People like you Anon.

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>>2946544
someone posted these on a thread a few days ago

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>>2946593

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>>2946594

>>2946593
>>2946594
>>2946595
This says the gang rape was best documented in two towns in France. It also says they did basic juvenile things like fight and annoy authorities. That is hardly most of Europe and rape wasn't their primary goal.

The women they targeted also seem to have been sexual deviants in one way or another. It was hardly random rape of random women. A modern equivalent to this would be a frat house raping a slutty sorority girl (rare and consent is questionable).

>>2944676
>premartial
Is that, like, sex just before joining the Army?

>>2946622
Sure it's best documented in that part of France, because records on it were preserved. While it's speculative, I'd bet that other cities in Europe had similar practices, considering the ubiquity of artisan guilds in towns, the fraternal bonds that these identity created and the sexual frustration of teenage journeymen, some with poor prospects for advancement or a respectable marriage for lack of money, and the widespread drinking of alcohol and the sheer boredom that came with living in those times.

>>2944676
ITT: Assmad Virgins

>>2946471
>Is there a race or something?
There is, actually. It's called human biology. Teenage years and up to your 30s is the prime age you should be mating. You're basically in your prime in that period in time. Past that and oh boy, all sorts of fun stuff happens to you. Like limp-dick

There's a reason why viagra exists and much of traditional medicine is about "upping your sex drive."

>>2946671
>rape wasn't their primary goal.
it was. it was an initiation rite for the youths into artisan gangs and a way to prove one's virility. They also raped cause they probably thrilled in the consequences of degrading the women-- I mean, some people, especially youths influenced by peer pressure, saw it as a positive experience.

>sexual deviants in one way or another
According to their social mores, not ours. If anything raping a priest's mistress or the patricians' bang-maid was a thumb to the nose of the artisan's social betters. There were also no-holds-barred for raping women of a rival gang for pleasure or, again, to challenge the desecrate the name of their enemies and to challenge their virility in their failure to protect their women.

> A modern equivalent to this would be a frat house raping a slutty sorority girl
Only in the sense that they're two examples of male youth groups have a tendency to prey on women because the anonymity afforded by gang rape or because of peer pressure to prove one's virility.

>(rare and consent is questionable).
Rare today because of our legal system, our mores and such an event tarnishing one's career prospects. back then, however, gender roles were quite rigid and so the community consigned the policing of these roles to the adolescents because adolescents are especially prone to overeagerness (and therefore have no problem terrorizing), peer pressure and the desire to prove one's masculinity, not to mention bestial sex drives.

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>>2945817
>polygamists
>capable of intimacy

>>2946696
Ehh, limp dick as you call it isn't much of a problem if you get plenty of exercise.

>>2946697
What I don't get about this is the idea of the women becoming prostitutes afterward. If I was a wealthy man with a mistress and somebody or a group of somebodies raped that mistress I would want the rapists brought before a judge and jury. I certainly wouldn't discard the mistress in question just because she was forced into something against her will.

>>2946889
yeah that part confounds me too. i guess since the blame laid on the woman the wealthy guy wouldn't want to be tainted by the scandal of keeping a "slut". again there's also the matter of virility; if you can't protect your mistress (even if not married) it might be construed as weakness the fact you couldn't protect her, especially cause she's a dependent of sorts. As for the woman that part's easier because her taking the blame means she bears a huge social shame and so nobody would ever hire her, which is why she'd turn to prostitution (where she'd be proceeded to be fucked by the same lads who raped her, kek??)

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