why does Serbia get the short end of the stick from /his/?

>>2937878
Because they always have some historical/mythical pretense to conquer and genocide a land that doesnt even belong to them.
t. Croat

>>2937887
>what was Independent State of Croatia
>what was Herzeg-Bosnia
You're no better.

>>2937887
i don't want this thread to go full balkan but you saying
>that doesnt even belong to them.
doesn't help :^)

Contrarianism.

>>2937887
What he said. Serb nationalism is the cancer of the Balkans, Croat nationalism is also bad, but Serbian nationalism is the worst. Their nationalist project has been responsible for ethnic cleansing and genocide and repression since the 19th century. It even sparked the First World War. I'm not a racist so I don't have anything against Serbs. Only Serb nationalist. Degenerate scum.
t. Bosnian

>>2937878
I know a serb. He has a tendency towards intense self-hatred and raging /pol/tism. He's alright when he can carry a decent conversation, but he probably has a lot issues that I don't want to know about.

>>2937960
I used to go to school with a half Serb half Ukrainian guy, he was very confused about Russia

>>2937949
>m-muh nationalism is totally not like THEIR nationalism
Yeah you can fuck off right now.
Half of your country doesn't want to live with you, and you want to force them into it. How the fuck are you different from Serbian nationalist?
>m-muh holy Bosnian land
Bosnia is nothing but administrative unit of various empires in succession. Your current borders are not the result of popular will, but rather will of foreigners, and in the end communist government.
Again, fuck off.

>>2937878
t. Nikola Nikovic

>>2937949
Let's not pretend Serbs are somehow different than the rest of the Balkans in their powerlust. All of us had several Greater [insert ex-Yu country] plans, the only difference is that Serbs managed to realize it the most.
t. Slovene

What exactly is the difference between Serbs, Croats, and Bosniaks besides religion? They all speak the same language and have the same genetics.

Serbs are fucked in the head. For early age they're brainwashed that they're super great and should rule everyone around them, that they're always the victims of backstabbing, etc. etc.

It's like Russia, but smaller.

That's why everyone hates them.

/his/ has such a raging fucking boner to be contrarian and different from every other history forum and /pol/ that they form horribly misinformed views on nations such as Germany and Serbia.

>>2938051
Literally false. This is /pol/ tier lunacy, that there's some vast national brainwashing conspiracy that Serbia is the greatest and deserves to rule everything from a young age.

They have their imbeciles, as do the rest of the Balkans. Nationalism is alive and well in most countries there. Just go on /int/ and ask Bulgarians about TRI MORETA or ask Greeks about Macedonia.

>>2937878

All countries get shat on, Serbia isn't a special case

>>2937949
Aren't bosnians muslims serbs?

>>2938010
as far as I know Bosnians never genocided or ethnically cleansed other peoples. Nor did they wage expansionist wars. The exact borders are somewhat arbitrary, however the people living there have been Bosnians and Herzegovinians since the Medieval Era. I'll admit that Serb and Croat nationalists wanted to ethnically cleanse areas and then secede, but I'm pretty sure this was not what non-nationalists wanted. Also the country had a referendum about independence from Yugoslavia. Honestly I'd wish Tito's legacy survived in a communist Yugoslavia, however that was no longer possible as damn nationalists kept popping up everywhere. First and foremost amongst the Serbs. With a Milosevic intent on building "Greater Serbia", rather than keeping the union through Unity and Brotherhood, it would be difficult for the other republics to stay on. Damn nationalists ruined a good country.

>>2937907
Never said we were any better on a grand scale, only a bit better than you.
>>2937921
>today Vucic anounced he wants 'all Serbs to be united under a same flag', including RS and Crna Gora
Really makes my noggin go joggin
>>2937949
>>2938078
Also true.

Serbia should decide; either you go the EU path or the 'muh Balkan holy clay from Istra to Romania' and get your shit pushed in, only this time not to the Dunav border, but to Belgrade.

Just retarded (((american))) propaganda, nothing new.

>>2938091
>never genocided or ethnically cleansed
False. Muslims participated in crimes commited during early 1900's (see Schützkorps), and participated in Ustaša movement too.
>nor did they wage expansionist wars
And how do you think Islam came to Balkans? What the fuck are you talking about.
>since the Medieval Era
Now they are not, even if that was true. Go to RS or Croatian Herzegovina and tell them they are Bosniak. See reaction.
>had a referendum
Basically Muslims and Croats ignoring the constituent status of Serbs and trying to separate entire country based on their own majority. Irony being that when Bosnia was created by communists, Serbs had plurality.
>Milošević
...was a faggot. So was Izetbegović. Even bigger faggot. An Islamist faggot who had no issue with leading his people to slaughter in order to achieve his autistic dream. A faggot who also lost elections and just ignored it and seized power.

>>2938096
>only a bit better
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usta%C5%A1e
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_persecution_of_Serbs

No, in fact Croats committed the only real genocide in Balkans history.

>>2938084
For serbs muslims can't be serbian so the bosnians have their own identity now.

>>2937878
Because for some reason a lot of Croats and Bulgarians lurk this board and crawl out of the woodworks whenever Serbia is mentioned.
I don't know why, i've personally never bashed them.
Bulgarians are especially autismo about this, for reasons unknown to me, we haven't fought each other for almost 80 years, and we never committed such crimes against each other (some happened, note surdulica massacre), but they pale in comparison to what Serbs and Croats did among themselves, heck even to what the Germans did to Serbs.

>>2938091
Milosevic was not a nationalist. He just presented himself as one, he didn't give a shit about Serbs, he deliberately let the Croats ethnically cleanse 250k Serbs so that he could move them to where he needed them. He refused to let them enter.
I quote Zimmerman
>Milosevic exhibits extreme grandiosity, self-confidence, and self-absorption to a degree that he is incapable of empathizing with the pain and suffering of others. Zimmermann writes that he has never seen Milosevic "moved by an individual case of human suffering," nor heard him "say a charitable or generous word about any human being, not even a Serb." That lack of empathy makes it possible, in Zimmerman’s view, for Milosevic to condone, encourage, and even organize unspeakable atrocities.

He was literally just a power hungry psychopath who found a way to get votes.

>>2938128
Bosnians may have participated, however it wasn't their project. The Ustasha was a Croat fascist movement, Bosnians just happened to live in their state.

Islam came to the Balkans through the Turks, not Bosnians. Don't you know basic history? Or are you amongst those Serb nationalists who claim Bosnians are really Serb and the same time call the Muslim ones for Turks? (Those nationalists are filth btw)

I never said Bosniak, I said Bosnian, as a person of Bosnia, no religion involved in the definition. These people you say wouldn't accept, in that case then it would be because of toxic nationalism taking hold since at least the 90's.

There were orthodox and catholic Bosnians, or Serbs or Croats or whatever you want to call them, who suppported Bosnian Independence and the Bosnian side against nationalists (who were usually urban people, whilst the nationalists being rural people for the most part)

My point still stands that Milosevic screwed Yugoslavia with Serb nationalism. Say what you will of Izetbegovic, but his government was, as far as I am aware a secular one with orthodox and catholic supporters. Half the cabinet was made up of catholics and orthodox. I don't think there was any real possibility of a islamist state.

>>2938045
Croats have an inferiority and superiority complex.
Serbs have a martyr complex.
Muslims have a flimsy identity based on Islam because Serbs treated them as a sort of fifth column because they took the religion of the eternal enemy, the Turk. To them if a Turk has blood on his hands, a muslim Serb is elbow deep in Serbian blood.

>>2938195
Whether he was a genuine nationalist at hear or not is irrelevant. He used a Serb nationalist project to screw over Yugoslavia. It was meant to be a multi-ethnic communist state. There ought to have been no difference of your nationality. Rather a cemented new Yugoslav nationality should've taken its place.

>>2938205
Meaning Serb nationalists went full autist treating their neighbours who for the most part never did anything to them like filth because "muh Turks", "muh Islam". Showing no tolerance or freedom of religion. Uncivilised nationalist scum. Why didn't some of the Enlightenment rub off on the Balkans in the three centuries since it happned in Western Europe?

>>2938209
There was no Yugoslav identity. Tito scrapped the Yugoslav identity, because to Croats the Yugoslav identity was the "greater serbia" boogeyman project of the former royal government.
Milosevic wanted centralization, other's didn't. And when he couldn't have his way he decided to destroy and smear Serbia's honor and legacy in the name of his own ambition.

>>2938228
>who for the most part never did anything to them
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13th_Waffen_Mountain_Division_of_the_SS_Handschar_(1st_Croatian)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Declaration
I'm talking about how Serbs viewed them in the 19th century. The unconstitutional secession of Bosnia and their rejection of the Cutileiro plan gave the Serbs of Bosnia plenty to worry about.

>>2937878
No one cares about your shithole Milac Milovic

>>2938228
>Turks never did anything to Serbs
Lmao

Not even Balkan but I'm going to disregard everything else you say if you really believe this.

>>2938245
Milac isn't a name, and I've never heard of anyone called Milovic.

Try Nikola Jovanovic or something.

>>2938195
>ethnically cleanse 250 000 Serbs
Show me the proof? Where dis we kill and bury those 250 000 people? Are you by chance mixing ethnical cleansing with persecution of people of the alleged SAO Krajina? Because those people are alive and well in RS and Serbia, or have died of old age.

>>2938306
I meant the Bosnians, not the Turks, kek

>>2938329
You don't seem to understand the term. Ethnically cleanse means "systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory by a more powerful ethnic group, with the intent of making it ethnically homogeneous."

REMOVAL, not murder. That would be genocide.

In my opinion Serb nationalism is to the Balkans what German nationalism was to Europe before 1945. And I propose the same solution. Totally reck the Serbs, and completely destroy their nationalist rubbish, cuck them so hard they'll be apologizing for their madness the next century. Then there can be peace on the Balkans.

>>2938344
Thank you for correcting me. However, we never
>systematic forced the removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory by a more powerful ethnic group, with the intent of making it ethnically homogeneous.
And the 'Transkript Vrhovnog Saveta obrane SFRJ Vezano uz Bijeg iz Krajine' clearly shows that the retreat, not systematic forced removal, was organized by the YNA months ahead of the actual events. You cant dispute your own army's transcripts.

Serbia should remove all you faggot kebab nigger lovers

>>2938370
away to >>>>/pol/ with thee

>>2937878
contrarians, probably because people are annoyed by le ebin remove kebab memers and /pol/, not that I can blame them though

>>2938075
>Just go on /int/ and ask Bulgarians about TRI MORETA
That's a meme, you idiot. Nobody is serious about that.

>>2938171
>Bulgarians are especially autismo about this, for reasons unknown to me, we haven't fought each other for almost 80 years, and we never committed such crimes against each other
And that is why everyone hates you. You're brainwashed from little children that you haven't done anything. All the bad things you did to Bulgaria and to the Bulgarians are non-existent to you, because your school textbooks don't mention them. So you go to "for reasons unknown to me boo hoo I'm a victim of bullying".

I'ts anti-Russian shills, OP. Serbia is one of the greatest countries in Europe and in the world.

>>2938497
I said neither Serbs to Bulgarians neither Bulgarians to Serbs have done anything even remotely similar to what happened between Serbs and Croats in WW2 and in the 90s

They were the main agressors in the balkan war.

>>2937878
It's pretty simple. Most people on 4chan I'd say are in their mid twenties. Some older, some younger. People of this generation, we all remember seeing the war on TV in the 90s (or certainly grew up with some cultural awareness of it) and all the truly godawful, indefensible shit the Serbs did to their neighbours. The only people who actually like Serbia on 4chan are LE REMOVE KEBAB XD fags who have taken a contrarian/edgy view of the conflict in true 4chan fashion.

>>2938510
'Yeah there was a couple of genocides here and there, but nothing as bad as something done to us that we can never ever forget!'

>>2938552
I can only think of one big massacre of Serbs committed by Bulgarians, and i haven't found a single massacre of Bulgarians committed by Serbs.
All of the beef between our two countries was purely political.

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>>2938573

>>2938573
>Immediately after annexation of Vardar Macedonia to the Kingdom of Serbia, the Macedonian Slavs were faced with the policy of forced serbianisation. Those who declare as the Bulgarians were, harassed or deported to Bulgaria. Many high clergy of Bulgarian Orthodox Church were expelled: Cosmas of Debar (Bishop), Axentius of Bitola (Archbishop), Neophytus of Skopje, Meletius of Veles, Boris of Ohrid and others. The population of Macedonia was forced to declare as Serbs. Those who refused were beaten and tortured.[7] prominent people and teachers from Skopje who refused to declare as Serbs were deported to Bulgaria. International Commission concluded that the Serbian state started in Macedonia wide sociological experiment of "assimilation through terror."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbianisation#In_Macedonia

>assimilation through terror
>All of the beef between our two countries was purely political.
>assimilation through terror

>>2938573
>>2938614
>>2938623
Didn't the king of serbia/yugoslavia slap a little girl for saying she was bulgarian in macedonia?

Serbs are christian Turks.

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>>2938640
It was the Serbian heir. She was 7 years old. Then 22 years later the now king was assassinated by a Bulgarian from the Macedonian organisation.

>>2937878
Because liking Serbia signals that you're a white trash pleb or edgelord pseud.

>>2938513
>Balkan War
>aggressors

>>2938803
>>2938640
Where can I read about this?

>>2938504
>Serbia is one of the greatest countries [...] in the world
I'll grant you that it's above the world average.
>and in Europe
now that's how I know you're a moron.

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>>2937949
Serbs might get overconfident and make bold moves, but their claims are reasonably contained to majority-Serb regions except for Macedonia and Kosovo. While not having the demographics to support their claim these days, Kosovo has strong historical and symbolic value.

Simply looking at the map you can see that Serbs, at the end of the day, have not received fair treatment. Their nationstate remains incomplete. They might have brought this upon themselves, or maybe they got mistreated by the powers that be, but the fact remains and will continue to generate tension until the problem is properly resolved. It reminds me a bit of Germany after WW1, except that Serbia is too weak to start some major shit over it.

>>2938822
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6R3dVZdFxxo

>>2938623
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magyarization
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgarisation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanisation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russification
>complaining about the zeitgeist

>>2938497
>le Bulgarians were amazing and never did anything wrong
Ask old people from Southeast Serbia how they feel about that.

Twice in 50 years Bulgarians occupied large portions of Serbia and were far from benevolent.

Meanwhile Serbs literally never occupied Bulgaria. Even the Second Balkan War lasted like a month.

If there was excessive violence between the two peoples, it was certainly far more with Bulgarians being attackers.

>>2938888
Ssshhh, don't let facts get in the way of his biased nationalism.

Did the Montenegrins do anything wrong?

>>2940319
Let's see.
Karadzic is Montenegrin
Milosevic is of Montenegrin origin (muh Vasojevic clan)
King Alexander was half Montenegrin
Tribal society, honor killings
Literally the ones who envisioned and started the rift between Serbs and Muslim Serbs. Killed, expelled or converted all Muslims in Montenegro circa 1711 and wrote a manifesto that justified killing muslims as the greater good and a necessity, which is considered the pinnacle of Serbian and Montenegrin poetry.

>>2940379
Also, literally run as a theocracy until 1852 when the Prince Bishop decided to cut the Bishop title out.

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>>2938045
Serbs and Croats were different tribes from the start, and with spread of Christianity they fell under the different spheres of influence.
Serbs most likely are related to Sorbs, while Croats came from White Croatia (with White standing for one of the cardinal directions, in this case West from where they came from before being there)

>>2940379
>Killed, expelled or converted all Muslims in Montenegro

Wait, is there a problem with this?

>>2940421
Depends on whether you support what the Bosnian Serbs did in the Bosnian war.

>>2937878
That applies to every Balkan country

>>2940415
Isn't there an origin theory on the Croats being partly of Iranic origin?

>>2940478
That applies to all Slav tho.
What i gathered from some Serbs and Croats is that some of them (usually marginalized pseudo historians and people who listen to them because of personal vanity) believe that other Slavs are their offshoots and that they are THE original ones.

>>2940379
>Karadzic is Montenegrin

Oh shit, didn't know that. I'd always heard him described as a Serb.

>>2940520
Montenegrins are a special kind of Serbs. They either choose to identify as Serbs or not.
Only 45% of the inhabitants of Montenegro identify as Montenegrin by nationality.
It's strange to describe. It's kid of like Texans. They're American, and they are either bigger Americans than other Americans, or they consider themselves Texan first.
Either way, they consider themselves above other Americans.
Also, you get a lot of people who switch their identity when it's convenient to them. Eg. They declare as Serbs in order to get free college in Serbia, but back home they declare as Montenegrin to get a government job, because the current Montenegrin government is doing a lowkey witchhunt of Serbs.
Mostly because the once and future king, the former and current president/prime minister of Montenegro 30 years running went from being the biggest Serb who sung of magical fairies reclaiming Dubrovnik and shelling the city to a Serb hunter.

>>2940535
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vqz742ilpQU

>>2940535
So "Montenegrins" are literally a meme?

>>2940478
I know of this one, it stems from the word Hrvat not fitting in Slavic language, and being more Iranic, IIRC, which would basically lead to Sarmatian/Scythian origin of Croats.
Given that theorized area of White Croatia, it would basically mean that majority of White Croats that stayed became south Poles, Slovaks, and some of Magyarized Slavs of Pannonia, so Sarmatism in a way could make more sense than one would think.

Also, I remember one theory that origin of Slavs is mixing between Scythian/Sarmatian culture with Baltic one, given similarities between Slavic and Baltic mythology, but Slavs being closer to former in language family, and genetics too, if my memory serves me right.

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>>2940568
Problem is, Montenegrin identity is quite a meme in itself, starting with >>2940415 that shows Slavic tribes, then goes pic related, as Republic of Macedonia is region known as Vardar, and not even majority of ancient Macedon.

That being said, Vardar or a variant of thereof would be much better name for a country.

>>2938071
Support for Serbia among Western youth is born out of contrarianism to begin with

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No of anything they are overrated by internet memes

>>2937878
It's a reaction to Četnik fetishism among the modern Right Wing.

And to people actually from the Balkans, to the historical behavior of the Serbs themselves. And how obnoxious their asshole nationalists are.

Which I guess some Croats are guilty of as well with the Nazi shit. But really nowhere to the same extent

>>2940650
>And to people actually from the Balkans, to the historical behavior of the Serbs themselves. And how obnoxious their asshole nationalists are.
Couldn't you say this for every country's nationalists, particularly in the Balkans?

>>2940661
When Bosnia, Croatia, Slovenia, Macedonia, Bulgaria, Romania rehabilitate their fascists they will be.

>>2940661
Admittedly I suppose so

The Serb and Croat ones are the loudest with the most blood on their hands though.

>>2940650
>>2940672
I'll assume you're a Croat or Bosniak.
Serbia has a few groups that you could consider neo nazis, and these groups often praise Chetniks.
However, the Chetniks themselves were not nazis. The singular cases of rehabilitated Chetniks had nothing to do with crimes. There is not a single piece of evidence that Dragoljub Mihajlovic ordered or encouraged the killings of Muslims in Bosnia, furthermore there are 3 separate dispatches of him ordering renegade commanders to stop killing Muslim civilians.
He didn't sign any agreement with the Germans, and had a 100k Reichsmark in gold on his head. And he organized the rescue of 500 allied pilots.
Also, in legal terms the rehabilitation simply means that the trial is annulled, because the accused did not have a right to fair trial.
There were actual, literal fascists and collaborationists in Serbia at the time, and no one even considers the rehabilitation of Milan Nedic and Dimitrije Ljotic.

>>2940739
Also, what you will hear often on the Serbian "far right" is the two parties positioned there accusing each other of being nazis.
The radicals accuse Dveri of being undemocratic, with ideological foundations in the views of Ljotic. They also accuse them of being American spies because they cooperate with Serbian liberal opposition parties.
Dveri accuse the radicals of being fascists and a product of the Yugoslav intelligence service, the notorious UDBA with the goal of being a false opposition.

>>2940589
Hrvatia is what that region was called in Old Persian by the Persians, yeah.

>>2940829
Also to add, there are a LOT of similarities between Slavic languages and Old Iranic ones like Old Persian that go beyond simple root origins of both being IE.

Slovenes
>German Serbs
Croats
>Catholic Serbs
Bosniaks
>Muslim Serbs
Montenegrins
>Coastal Serbs
Macedonians
>Bulgarian Serbs
Kosovans
>Albanian Serbs
There, I just summed up the Balkans for you.

>>2940908
You forgot the main one

>Serbs
Just Turkic Serbs.

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>>2938051
Sounds like America desu

>>2940908
I agree with this pretty much except for the Albanians. Their language is pretty distinct from Slavic. The people are certainly mixed with Slavs more than they care to admit but they're still pretty different

>>2937878
They're prone to chimping out and believe they're better than they are.

Serbs should be shot at sight desu.