Why didn't Native Americans rebel and create a native country?

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>>2932303
Because they were all conquered?
Youre welcome

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>>2932303
What a dumb fucking post.
Kill yourself you waste of oxygen.

>>2932303

Because every time they tried to do that the U.S. Army would appear and shoot them.

>>2932303
because non native wouldn't stop bothering them

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>>2932322
Spanish army*
US only existed from 1850s, Spanish army conquered all the indians.

the territories in canada count
now shut the fuck up

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>>2932303
>Every country in the Americas is ruled by whites

>>2932316
Stop
>>2932322
Ok. What about the rest of the continent?

>>2932354

The Aztecs evolved into what we would know call Mexicans after being culturally enriched by Conquistadors.

>>2932354
No, I'm gonna continue insulting you for shitting up /his/ with questions that could be solved by looking at a goddamn map.

Bolivia is getting more "indigenist" by the day.

>>2932393
lmao first indigenous president in its history

>>2932303
pontiac tried. cherokee tried. usa fucked them over though

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>>2932303
>▶
something happened to them

>>2932303
Native Americans are killed 90% by the disease foreign people brought, so they cannot do shit

>get struck by disease
>get your land taken away
>get deported and shot for centuries
>get thrown onto reservations
>get arrested for trying to protest
>"lol just rebel bro"

>Every country in the Americas is ruled by whites
What about Bolivia and Greenland?

>>2932428

generations of karma for the victims of their infernal altars

>>2932454
>>2932466
They recovered by the 1800s.

>>2932303
Cherokee tried and copiedwhites. Even held slaves. Unfortunately Andrew Jackson did not give a shit.

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>>2932303
indios were basically cucked out of existence by the invaders and supplanted

it's one of the greatest tragedies throughout history imo

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>>2932726
>tragedy

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>>2932303

What the fuck do you think the Zapatistas and FARC are? Like 90% of them are Natives and the governments they're rebelling against are dominated Europeans.

>>2932696
By the time of 1800s americans already was removing them, and they still can't do shit because of the technological superiority of Europeans

>>2932730
>wanting the world to end

>>2932303
Like 95% of everyone fucking died from an apocalyptic plague decades before the vast majority of natives would ever see or even hear about white people. This led to a complete collapse of society, massive loss in traditions and knowledge, and many cities and places simply being overrun by vegetation.

You're not effectively organizing shit after that. And when you do manage, you're so outclassed that you can't realistically do much.

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>>2932303

Also

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Alcatraz

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wounded_Knee_incident

>>2932303
There literally aren't enough of them to do so. Indios in Mexico tried to revolt and mostly got crushed. The Guatemalan civil war was basically Indios vs. Mestizos, Castizos and Criollos. Every time the native try to start shit, they get whomped on and end up in a worse position than they were in before. Add on the fact money whitens in LatAm, you'll find that few indios identify as such nor are they usually considered as such. Besides, as it stands now, most LatAm states are "native American" in that the majority of their populations are mestizo rather than castizo even though they're predominantly ruled over by criollos and castizos. People can meme about it all they like but the casta system is still alive and well.

>>2932303
The Maya did and for a time have an independent country but it was annexed by mexico in the caste war.

>>2932742
Little known fact that really changes how history can be perceived. They were barely any left when we landed.

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>>2932726
what a tragedy that this great culture is now extinct.

>>2932742
>>2932783
It's also not true.

Well,
>died from an apocalyptic plague decades before the vast majority of natives would ever see or even hear about white people
this is true-ish. 95% is almost certainly a significant exaggeration but disease killed off a huge chunk of the natives in what would become Latin America before the Spanish (well, Iberian) conquest was really underway, which of course aided their conquest.

>They were barely any left when we landed.
This isn't true (I'm not sure who you mean by "we" but it sounds like you're an American). There's very scanty evidence for this and plenty of evidence against. The plagues were largely confined to Latin America before the English set up their colonies in what would become the United States. It's simply not true that the settlers at Jamestown and Plymouth and so on landed on a depopulated post-apocalyptic continent.

>>2932850
>The plagues were largely confined to Latin America before the English set up their colonies in what would become the United States. It's simply not true that the settlers at Jamestown and Plymouth and so on landed on a depopulated post-apocalyptic continent
Not him, but do you have a source for that? From what I've read, common historiography states otherwise.

>>2932853
I don't mind citing sources, but I'm curious where you've read that. That's not really the mainstream academic position. I mean, I've encountered it before, of course - I remember being linked to a shitty article on Cracked.com that made that claim, and it bothered the hell out of me because the article got millions of hits and they were acting like it was accepted wisdom when it way, way wasn't. I've also seen people claim that on kinda fringey political websites (which I don't have a problem with in general, I'm not saying they're trash because they're leftist, but obviously they're not exactly neutral sources).

Generally whenever I see somebody pushing the "North America was a post-apocalyptic wasteland!" narrative, it's either some nobody with a blog, or it turns out that they're politically motivated and have a clear axe to grind - the same people who give ridiculous population estimates for the Precolumbian Americas like 100 million.

Generally the accepted position is that most of the European diseases started hitting the natives in what would become the United States in the early 17th century. There *may* have been a few relatively small outbreaks before then, obviously the settlers at Port Royal and Jamestown were not the first Europeans to land in the Americas north of Florida, there were a handful of explorers and traders there before them, but there weren't massive regional die-offs.

I don't mind citing sources but it'll take me a while; it's harder to produce sources for something that *didn't* happen. The truth is there really just was never that much evidence for it to begin with and not that much has been written on it because it's a fringe position.

>>2932345
H-he's not wrong though, it's still a white man's world.
What countries are you thinking of? Haiti?

>>2932331
This. Settlers would either occupy their land as they go west which gives the army a reason to go in or settlers act aggressive which would then force the armies hand to deal with both sides.

This isn't mentioning aggression from natives entities but a ton of the peaceful/mostly peaceful groups got fucked hard by settler expansions and the federal gov fucking them in the ass despite treaties or deals.

>>2933041
usually terra nullius/no one was on hat/they have no sense of land ownership land is a meme sentiment common in settler nations.

>>2933063
Did you mean to reply to another post?

>>2932473
>greenland
>country
Mfw: disappointed.jpg

>>2932303
did you just forget about disease?

>>2933089
What? Greenland is a country. Don't be snarky unless you know what you're talking about.

Maybe what you're getting at is that it's not a SOVEREIGN STATE. But that's not what he said.

>>2932853
>>2933041
Also, it's going on 3 AM here and I gotta sleep, but I will check this thread tomorrow and write another post linking some sources and going over the evidence if the thread's still active/you're still interested tomorrow. It's just too late right now, but I hope you stick around.

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>>2932303
> disunited
> disorganized
> no written language
> no manufacturing capability
> literally a stone age society

That said, some like Geronimo managed to wage a guerrilla war for decades.

The Spanish did a really good job of intergrating natives into their rule, and the British were really good at marginalizing them.

they were too busy dying of plague and being 2000 years behind the rest of mankind

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>>2932303
They did, multiple times. They also failed multiple times. That's what happens when you side with the Brits and the Confederacy and lose two wars.

>>2933216

just more instances of the brit using savages as their foil

>>2933216
Why would anyone ally with the brits is beyond me, they ever break treaties when it suits them and will backstab you for pennies.

>>2933220
>>2933224
In my opinion it all stems from culture shock. When a culture that's significantly more advanced comes into contact with a culture that's a couple hundred years behind them technologically speaking there's going to be nothing but growing pains. When their technology and goods are so highly coveted but so poorly understood that they sell entire tracts of land for glass beads it sparks an awful lot of interracial tension.

Look at what happened in Japan. Foreigners had been showing up to trade for centuries. Japanese Emperors had relations with both the English and the Portuguese (specifically the Jesuits) for a long time. Trade was heavily regulated in most cases and foreigners were not always allowed to go where they pleased.

Then all of a sudden the floodgates broke open. Americans, British, French, Portuguese, and all manner of other motherfuckers started showing up. Perfidious tradesmen fucked over the general population with unfair prices, people got killed, villages got shelled with cannonballs, and a civil war broke out between the Emperor and Shogun. Sides were taken, foreign mercenaries were deployed, and the samurai were promptly rekt by hordes of peasants with muskets trained by American Civil War veterans.

Culture shock is always a clusterfuck and modernization is not an easy prospect for indigenous people, especially when those people are basically still animist hunter gatherers living out of long houses.

>>2933275

you fucking believe the last samurai is depicting real events

>>2933282
Are you implying that the Boshin War did not occur?

>>2933282
Not him but the Boshin War pretty much WAS a proxy war between Britain, France, and the United States. There's a reason that a very large portion of the Japanese intelligentsia had the motto "Revere the Emperor, Expel the Barbarians" in the lead-up to the Boshin War. It's literally why Kagoshima happened.

>>2932309
You are the unique one who spams your fat al-andalus face. Get the fuck out of here.

>>2932737
>they still can't do shit because of the... superiority of Europeans
>superiority of Europeans

Pretty much what this racist anon said, Europeans are superior.

Half of them don't even know who is or isn't Indian anymore, just pure """"blood quantum"""" autism and muh cultural colonialism

>>2933357
Incas were superior to europeans actually.

>>2933380
In what way? They were trunced be less than 200 Spaniards.

>>2932730
It was a religion of peace

>>2933357
You're the racist dickwad, you can state a group had more advanced tech without attributing it to racial superiority.

>>2933398
That was smallpox.

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>>2933177
>literally a stone age society
>no written language

>>2932303
They did, it's called Oklahoma where tribes have a NatSoc government which is funded by a Stupidity Tax (gambling). The government supports this as well

>>2933905
What did any of that matter if there was also encomienda
the natives were deprived of their humanity

>>2932333
>Spanish army conquered all the indians.
Well it's not like there were many left after the disease took most of them out

>>2933048
>it's still a white man's world.
You mean in the cuckold continent of America

>>2933915
Stop larping you subhuman. I know you are the author of the first post.

>>2933118
greenland is an semi-autonomous region, not a country, dipshit

>>2933224
>they ever break treaties when it suits them and will backstab you for pennies
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_London_(1839)#Scrap_of_paper

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>>2932730
>>tragedy
indeed

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>>2933409
compared to europe it certainly was

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>>2932785
still better than what euros were doing at the time

>>2933915
* raped

>>2933924
You're thinking of Europe my friend. :^)

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>>2934283
>>2934304

>100 years of chaos and upheaval before returning to passive understanding of differences
vs.
>constant war of subjugation against all others in order to enslave them and sacrifice them by ripping out their still beating heart, unending, eternal flow of blood as a main core tenent

really makes me think...

>>2934033
It's a semi-autonomous country within the Kingdom of Denmark (the sovereign state) and it is generally referred to as such, similar to how Scotland and Wales are component countries within the United Kingdom (the sovereign state). Conversely, Macau is an example of an autonomous region that ISN'T considered a country in its own right. "Country" does not mean "sovereign state," although in casual speech it's sometimes used that way.

Seriously, know what you're talking about before you correct people.

Why is girl happy in OP's pic? Thinking of European cock.

>>2934334
Yes, no wars ever existed in Europe before those 100 years, it was a passive paradise.

>>2934553
This is a discussion of culture. All cultures have occasional wars over resources or power.

Wars of religion are what's relevant, when discussing culture.

The Reformation turmoil was a brief spike of violence in Europe compared to a religion that by its core tenant demands a continuous and unending flow of sacrificial blood.

If you can't grasp this fact, then you are a biased faggot.

>>2934607
>All cultures have occasional wars over resources or power.
>Wars of religion are what's relevant, when discussing culture.
Then why you guys keep regarding Aztec wars of conquest as religious wars?
In the 200 years they introduced "mass sacrifices" to Mesoamerica they killed 3 times less people than euros in a 100 years if we consider Aztec's highest estimate and Europe's lowest estimate. 9 times less if we consider Europe's highest.

>>2934610
>He has 3 pastas and 4 pics.Outsode of that he knows jackshit about what he is talking about
why you always go for the ad hominem? why can't you guys simply prove the pastas wrong?

i know how fucking annoying they are, just like you posting the same comments every goddamn thread

>>2934610
Except I'm not him him.
>>2934607
Are you implying that the Aztecs or since you people conflate the whole thing let's say Mesoamerica in general only fought wars of religion? You do realize religion was so ingrained in their society, literally the act of sweeping, shitting and eating were all tied to religious beliefs. Wars certainly had a religious conotation but it's not the only reason they were fought. Also I think you are thinking of the flower wars of the Aztecs. The subjugation Aztecs did over their neighbors was largely for control of resources. As they got bigger and more powerful they turned it into a crusade to emphasize their central role in the world.

>>2934661
>guys simply prove the pastas wrong?
The pastas are cherrypicked from a book that you haven't read and will never read for that matter. Taking quotes out of context is not an argument by any means

>>2934729
Aztec wars were just to horde slaves and to sacrifice people. That is why they were so autistic about making prisioners

>>2933999
Kill yourself moor mongrel.

>>2934774
No they weren't.

>Scholars say that Aztec warriors fought specifically to capture other warriors to offer them to the gods and that this gave them prestige. But this interpretation has come down to us largely from Spanish friars and the Aztecs they educated. In real life, no civilization has ever endorsed killing on such a massive scale, and repeatedly, only to please gods. The gods, however, always provide a nice handy excuse for killing that is motivated by other things.

>Far more likely is that warriors sought to capture other warriors not to have them killed for their hearts but to put them in a position in which the captor, by right of capturing his opponent, could take away some of his opponent’s tribute rights (resources, money, power). This makes a lot more sense, and puts the Aztecs well within the range of all civilizations.

I am a native american and its humorous to see europe on a decadent downward spiral from its own hubris. it's a taste of their own medicine

>>2934807
That was an offering for allie diplomacy. The same as the aztecs.

>cuckposter
Iberian monkey.

>>2934816
>its humorous to see europe on a decadent downward spiral from its own hubris.
Not really what happened. More like liberalism, communism and American hegemony over Europe naturally did a number.
>it's a taste of their own medicine
That doesn't even make sense considering your previous sentence implied Europe was not like this.

>>2933915

>what is rape?

>>2934827
She was a traitor after all. Look at your women jumping at mojamé's dick.

Faggot.

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>>2934607
That's aztecophobic hate speech

>>2934789
I honestly don't even know where to begin with this quote. It's not "wrong" so much as ... confused. Confused about the position it's trying to criticize.

As someone sorta noted above, scholars do (correctly) contend that the Flower Wars were fought largely for the purpose of taking captives than for conquest or annihilation, but nobody's ever claimed that about the bulk of the Aztec conquests, which were largely fought to subjugate rival cities and extract tribute from them. That's not novel or shocking and it's not incompatible at all with religious sacrifice of captives or with the taking of captives being linked to social/military status.

>>2934334
Aztec wars tried to kill as little as possible. Their entire weaponry and army was based around on capturing their enemies

>>2934842
...so that they could sacrifice them later

>>2934842
>Aztec wars tried to kill as little as possible
for the sole purpose of enslaving them for later brutal sacrifice.

There's a reason why when the Spanish showed up, every other tribe in the area immediately joined them to kill off their Aztec oppressors. Because they were unimaginably cruel.

>>2934870
Literally the same thing Europeans did to africans

>>2933880
>>>2932303 (OP) (You)
>They did, it's called Oklahoma where tribes have a NatSoc government which is funded by a Stupidity Tax (gambling). The government supports this as well
Seriously?

>>2934879
>giving them art, science, math, technology and religion
>Same thing
The oppoiste. The only thing Europeans (and not even every European nation so that's a disingenuous statement) took from Africans is taxes.

>>2934870
Not really. The altepeme they conquered were largely left alone afterwards. The warriors captured in the initial attack were enslaved and/or sacrificed but the bulk of the population wasn't, so long as they met their tribute, and the city-state typically remained autonomous (often with the same leadership). The tributes were pretty steep and there's a fair amount of historical/archaeological evidence suggesting that meeting them without fail was a significant burden but it's not like the bulk of the population was subjugated or enslaved.

The Aztecs weren't nice guys by any means but they weren't "unimaginably cruel."

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>>2934789
>this interpretation has come down to us largely from Spanish friars and the Aztecs they educated
>literally hearing it from the Aztecs mouth, and still making up bullshit to defend them.
reminds me of pic related.

>>2934816
What tribe?

>>2934879
kek.
>Europeans ever directly enslaved Africans
false. Europeans when they were actually in the slave trade, only ever participated by buying slaves from black Slavers in West Africa

>>2934897
Oh, please. European colonialism was a mixed bag, its legacy is both good and bad, but the colonial empires were resource extraction machines. The fact that they did other things as well and that they sold some of those resources back to the colonies afterwards doesn't change that.

I mean, fuck - I generally think that the British Empire was a good thing (largely because it was much better than the alternatives) but you're being willfully disingenuous if you boil ANY of the colonial empires down to
>giving them art, science, math, technology and religion

>>2934900
>but the bulk of the population wasn't
they were left alive solely for farming future sacrifice victims.

>>2934845
The inca offered her.
That's why it was an "offering".

You still can't prove me wrong about ahmed's europe harem.

>>2934937
I'm sure there are Iberian women fucking ahmed or even blacks, but the average grandad has a Peruana, Cubana or Ecuatoriana fuckbuddy there. Heck, it's a lot more common to see a bald, chubby guy with a peruana than any other interracial couple.

>>2934932
Nope. You simply don't know what you're talking about. You are misremembering what you've read about the Flower Wars and incorrectly extrapolating your misconceptions about them to the broader Aztec conquests.

There's a reason the Aztec Empire practically defines the term "tributary empire." The bulk of the population was not enslaved or subjugated (or assimilated) beyond having to meet their tributary obligations.

And yes, I could easily drop citations on this, but when you're putting next to no effort into the conversation I don't really feel the need to dig through my hard drive for sources on something that's generally well-accepted by modern historians and archaeologists.

>>2934956
>conquering them
Lmao
They couldn't reveal their real intentions. They were backstabbing their native allies until their reinforcements came. Even then they couldn't beat the Inca. The major factor was the smallpox. Weren't it be for that disaster the vast organization of the inca empire wouldn't let those tribes to reveal against the mighty Emperor.

You savages just picked up what was left after the illness devastation.
>ahmed?
>umm...I won't answer
Not an argument, buddy.

>>2934954
>fat ugly peruanas
Of course, the normal+ ones get married and have children on the villages and cities.

You are a joke. The same happen with asians. You can only get to marry ugly or "cakes".

Keep deluding yourselves, savages.

>>2934990
Aww el PeruANO señores.

>>2934997
Still superior, monkey.
>>2935003
Yes, they reserve a special place for you. :^)

>>2934955
yeah that last one was pretty disingenuous from me.

>>2935061
that's not me, faggot.
I don't know shit about Oklahoma.

quit trying to be le 4chan expert

It's sad to see so many racists even on a history board here on 4chan.

>>2935083
They can't deal with the fact that Incas were superior to their ancestors. Now they aren't even a shadow of their savage predecessors.

>>2935092
People calling others subhumans, monkeys, and the general dehumanization of indigenous americans.

>>2935083
>It's sad to see so many racists
so many people that accept the fact of biological diversity

>>2935083
>Sad to see that among a population interested in the world they have a so many people with a diversity of views that don't conform with the socially accepted status quo
ftfy

>>2935099

You shouldn't worry about it, their pride is their downfall.

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>>2935099
Redskins need to go back to Siberia.

>>2932303
sauce?

>>2932364

To be fair, as a Mexican, the whole mestizaje thing worked very well in the looooooooong term. Mexican culture is very rich and no longer based on sacrificing children for the glory of Christ or Quetzalcoatl.

>>2934816
Yes brother, and the Old Spirits will punish the evil white man

>>2935118
>cuck
>actually cuckposted 10+ times ITT
Kek I'm actually laughing my ass off!

braindead butthurt indios are brigading. prune this thread

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>>2932303

>>2935109
Indo Europeans should go back east. Sardinians and Basque are ok though.

>gets destroyed in an argument
>prune this thread >:(
Lmaoing @ your life, bucko.

>>2935292
>basque
>ok
Those savages are destroying what's left of the spanish empire. You cannot literally not make any of this shit up!

>>2935157
You messed up mentioning Quetzalcoatl. You're thinking of Tlaloc.

>>2935294
The empires dead.

>>2935294
i've just been perusing through this thread and all i see is mad incoherent posts. it seems you're proud of turning things into shit

>>2935331
>mad
>prune this thread >:(
My fucking sides can't tolerate this anymore.
>incoherent posts
Nice trivialization of an entire thread where you couldn't prove anything.

>>2935341
third post in this thread so far
stay mad i guess?

>>2935345
>perusing
Read again, maybe your IQ is too low for comprehending the context.
>stay mad
>still writes a reply
Go cry me a river. You can't prove me wrong.

>>2932303
>Native Americans
Indians.

No one calls us "Native Americans" except PC whites that live in all-white neighborhoods and want to be nice (at a distance) with non-whites.

>>2935356
technically mestizos are of lower IQ tbqh

>>2935363
How do you feel about being called Amerindian?

>>2935363
I'm not going to use the term 'Indians' for people who aren't Indian.

>>2935367
>statistics
I have high IQ, my father was successful and beat every cumskin brainlet. My brothers excel at math easily and surpassed every cumskin at school.

Of course nigger, mesoamerican and iberian mongrels would lower the median IQ.

>>2935378
good for you jorge just don't nap on my front lawn pls

>>2935363
I am not white though :o

>>2935379
>adhominem
How am I not surprised?
Are you an amerishart?

>>2935370
It works. Nothing really against the term.

>>2935376
And? I'm no more a "Native American" than someone else born here whose grandparents are from Italy. Use Amerindian if your autism is too great.

>>2935382
You're probably brainwashed by them.

>>2935393
>Amerindian
>indian

lol no. Indigenous American?

>>2935393
o-oh.. :l

>>2933041
That's false though, De Soto's arrival collapsed Mississippian civilization and by the time the English arrive they had spread out throughout the South as chieftains we know as Cherokee, Choctaw, Creek, etc... Whose enitre cosmology changed.

My nation the Choctaw claim they arose from a particular mound Nanih Waiya in Mississippi.

>>2935462
I'm not sure what you're calling "false." Of course there were Spanish explorers in what would become the United States, they didn't arbitrarily stop at the US-Mexico border, and their expeditions sometimes resulted in (relatively) local/regional outbreaks of smallpox and measles and so on. I don't think I implied otherwise anywhere.

The epidemics did not, however, sweep up and down the United States and depopulate the continent as people have claimed.

>>2935763
The epidemic complete destroyed the civilizations noted and an apocalypse did occur. By the time of the English population did rebound.

You're statement that it did not get to that point is false, it did.

>>2935777
What civilizations noted? The Mississippian cultures?

The tribes that the settlers later encountered - the east coast Algonquians and northeasterners and so on - had not yet been hit by the epidemics, no. There's a complete dearth of archaeological/historical evidence suggesting they were ever that populous and the contemporary accounts of the epidemics are consistent with them being some of the first outbreaks in those areas.

>>2932303
The Citizen Potawatomi Nation is a country, Recognized as such by 57 member countries of the U.N. My Potawatomi Nation I.D. is recognized as legal ID by all agencies of the U.S. Government, and the States of Ohio, Oklahoma, Washington, and Indiana.

One of many reasons, non the less the most important reason why the N.A. were not able to create their own nation is because they had traitors among themselves!

Divide and concur is one of the most useful war tools, regardless weather it is divide the people or the person!

>>2932316
Hey remember that time the Roman Empire made treaties with a bunch of barbarians making things all even, all squared up, all good; but then they gave them blankets covered in plague and then offensively attacked, killed them, and took their land and other related shit?

Yeah me neither

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>>2934870
Because they were unimaginably cruel."
yup the spanish were

>>2935393
That's like calling Papuans Black

>>2932303
>Every country in the Americas is ruled by whites

Since when are jews considered white?

They did. The British wanted a native buffer state between Canada and the US. See Tecumseh's confederacy and the war of 1812.

Also I'm fairly certain Yucatan tried to do this at some point in the 20s, possibly 30s.

>>2934922
This is true for the american slave trade, but locals were surely used for slave labor in many parts of the continent

>>2936340
Why would they not be? If they're not white what are they mongoloid? black? Jews look no different than your regular european.

>>2932303
Native girls wanted to be BLEACHED. There was no avoiding it.

File: 14570316_1694596400860442_5178566975826009632_n.jpg (39KB, 499x501px) Image search: [Google]

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>>2937132
>Jews look no different than your regular european.
your average European doesn't look like this.

>>2937152
Neither does your average jew look like a heavily exaggerated political cartoon.

>>2937152
I've seen plenty of spaniard, italian, greek, and romanian look like that. Hell some germans and anglos look that way too.

>>2932303
Natives will always be losers, because whites are powerful and are not subhumans like the Natives.