When and how do you think the American Empire will collapse?

4 July, 2076

>>2927062
when the electrical grid goes down

>>2927062
European % will go down enough where they can't uphold the inferiors by themselves or where the inferior takes control through modern democratic vote

>>2927080
>implying theres no backlash from liberalism after seeing Europe collapse

perhaps Europe should burn

>>2927062
When quality of life sinks low enough that government abuse cannot be tolerated

>>2927090
I always figured it would either be Europe crashing and burning and the US wising up or the US crashing and Europe wising up. Either way, I don't think the European peoples are going away for a long long time.

When it is no longer of use to the international capitalist class.

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>>2927062
In a few hundred years, when rapidly accelerating technological advances renders the concept of an empire run and managed by humans obsolete. It will be a gradual fizzling out as more and more of the government's functions are preformed more efficiently with artificial intelligence.

The better question is, will it be a eudaimonia, where every human is treated with fairness and equality and treated to a lifestyle which fulfills and stimulates them the most, or will it be the case where the robots exterminate us as a now useless redundancy and inefficient allocation of resources? Depends on whose values they end up inheriting.

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>>2927192
a human has to program that AI anon , he will be king

>>2927197
We'll probably have AIs programming more powerful AIs before it reaches that point.

And even if there was one guy who could claim all the credit for that, the fact that AIs are now managing the government and continuously creating new AIs to make the government run even more efficiently (probably to the point of completely overtaking the economy and redefining how society is structured), he'd probably be about as powerful as the king of England.

In other words, a celebrity that the AIs devote slightly more resources to parading around so that the pink slime can have its heroes to mindlessly worship.

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>>2927135
>Either way, I don't think the European peoples are going away for a long long time.

I love happy endings!

>>2927062
At some point, whites won't tolerate an ever-growing percentage of ungrateful, criminal browns. Whether whites will finally start deporting the browns or if there will just be large-scale migration to Canada is unclear.

I don't see how people think the racial shift of America is going to destroy it. Has nobody taken a look and seen that we have plenty of well educated immigrants coming from overseas. America won't change beyond becoming racially different than it once was.

Your complaints are literally no different than the complaints uttered during the great immigration rushes in the 1800s and beyond.

>>2927062
It's an empire?

>>2927192
>the robots exterminate us as a now useless redundancy

People have always been the essential lubrication of the arcane machine, it's caretakers even now in its midst. Consider your own existence in direct reference to your machine, and your function as it relates specifically to that machine.

It's symbiosis.

>>2927289
>Your complaints are literally no different than the complaints uttered during the great immigration rushes in the 1800s and beyond.

Yeah, because our understandings of genetics haven't changed at all in 200 years. Muslim immigrants are totally comparable to Catholic immigrants.

Talk about a false equivalence.

When the Solar Flare hits in 2019.

>>2927192
>In a few hundred years, when rapidly accelerating technological advances renders the concept of an empire run and managed by humans obsolete.
Implying that humans and machines won't synthesize to create superior beings in a glorious aufheben.

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Some regions in America have already totally collapsed, ex: the rust belt especially Ohio, parts of the deep south, large parts of southern California can't even be considered American anymore

>>2927308
scary ending.

>>2927301
What does genetics have to do with religion? Besides, I'd say they are. You seem to place too much importance on someone's religion and race rather than their class and how they were raised.

Some wealthy dude of Indian heritage probably has more to contribute than a poor dude growing up in a trailer park regardless of their circumstances.

>>2927311
> the rust belt especially Ohio, parts of the deep south, large parts of southern California can't even be considered American anymore

In what way?

>>2927300
>>2927308
I could improve a horse by installing a 4-cylinder engine, but eventually I can just make do without the horse part

>>2927311
The "rust belt" is a meme. It only feels that way because all of the good manufacturing jobs were replaced by shitty, low end service sector work and all of the productivity gains are going to the wealthy few.

The factories are still there, it's just that nowadays they only need a few hundred technicians to manage the robots who preform the labor once needed by thousands at vastly superior efficiencies.

>>2927062
It'll probably lose international hegemony over the decades as China, India, (maybe) the EU, and other nations fully develop and become just as powerful. It'll still chug on for a few more centuries (the Roman empire survived over a thousand years, and Byzantium carried on almost a thousand more). So it'll probably be around until a point where no nations exist (either due to uniting into a planetary coalition or apocalypse).

>>2927329
The rust belt is third world and decaying into oblivion most of the population are addicted to heroine

Deep South never really "collapsed" because it was never developed to begin with

Southern California is Mexican

I'm here and I'm a great citizen. So I assure you it won't happen on my watch.

>>2927333
>improve a horse by installing a 4-cylinder engine
no
besides, your analogy is trash.

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>>2927062
Soon

>>2927354
Please, this is a meme to the core.

>>2927354
You'll have to conquer your cartels before colorado, m8.

>>2927354
At least California is pretty much majority native already and it is one of the best states in the union.

>>2927354
and then it will collapse because latrinos can't into infrastructure or waste removal.
seriously can you fucking goblins not litter so much?

>>2927062

Anytime. Americans fatness and general masdiv retardation has been spiralling in geometric progression for too many years already.

America is not an empire

also, go fuck yourself you obsessed faggot

>>2927422
This, desu. We're in the last days of the Republic. Imperial mode hasn't even begun yet.

>>2927427

there is no imperial mode you stupid fuck

>>2927311
You forgot Cleveland
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysmLA5TqbIY

>>2927322

class doesn't matter to the snackbar, eventually they give you a reason to regret having them around, that religion of theirs is a cancer to polite society

>>2927062
Its like the latter half of Rome, a long gradual downhill era. We will survive for a few more centuries and have some real terrible presidents before a power shift happens.

>>2927463

I predict in the next few decades you're going to suck some massive dicks

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>>2927062
It will turn (is already turning) into a Latin American style banana republic.

>>2927483

yeah, in the same way your shithole is turning into a muslamic republic

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>>2927487
>muslamic

>>2927353
If you need a mode of efficient transportation what makes more sense: a souped up horse or an automobile?

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RAHOWA, within the decade.
Because of financial collapse and the ongoing dissolution of society.

>>2927497
trash analogy is trash

>>2927062
Human societies, in order to work efficiently and preserve order and prosperity, must adapt to changes in the environment, including technological changes, new philosophical understandings, fresh scientific perspectives, and new data. The United States however, by design, is severely limited in how and how quickly it can fundamentally change its system of government and its institutions, and, partly for cultural reasons, its economic system is also resistant to change. This makes for an extremely stable government, and one that is quite resistant to tyranny (unlawful acquisition of power). This is exactly what the founders of the country intended, and I think it will make the United States exist for a very long time in a very stable state - so long as the constitution is upheld. But it also means that the United States may be unable to react to important changes in the environment around it as I mentioned before.

Thus, I think that, in the broad sense of historical movements which can be predicted, the demise of the US may happen when the fundamental institutions of the United States are rendered obsolete. So, when a competing state that uses another set of institutions, another value system, is able to not only become a peer competitor, but surpass the US in international import, economic power, and military strength. At that point, the US will be forced to turn inward and may spiral into factionalism or balkanization.

Now, note that just because a competing state has a superior, or more efficient, etc. system, or one that is well adapted to current circumstances, doesn't mean they will inevitably surpass the US. The US could leverage its overwhelming advantage to strike down potential peer competitors and essentially bootstrap its social/political institutions to the realm of unquestionability. This could be dangerous to human development in the long run as it stifles the ability for societies to compete and select those with the best fitness.

>>2927497
if AI can program better AI, it stands to reason that AI can program better and better exploits and viruses that target AI. Humans stand uniquely immune from those kind of attacks. This can make them at the least tangentially useful in an emergency.

Meanwhile, machines don't get the flu. It's like a match made in heaven.

>>2927517
Also note: it's impossible to predict the actions of a single human being. So if an extraordinary/extraordinarily important person or small group of persons undertakes specific actions, the United States could be brought down in other ways. This is impossible to foresee without it being imminent though. So in the broad sense of larger shifts in society I think it would take a fundamental change to humanity, where the principles of self government, a powerful and static constitution, or individual liberty are no longer desirable or effective.

>>2927517

why is bollocks always all the more noticeable the more puffed up with pompous meandering it becomes?

>>2927497
Depends, do you have a road or gasoline? If not, the horse is pretty fucking good.

>>2927528
Good contribution thanks.

>>2927538

to be quite honest I could say the very same in mock sincerity to you

>>2927505
Did you have a rebuttal or were you just trying to make an ass out of yourself?
>>2927520
https://www.quora.com/What-is-retroviral-engineering
Tangentially useful is definitely a point in humanity's favor, but if they really wanted to hedge their survival bets they'll probably start moving off planet, with bodies which don't mind the vacuum one bit. Maybe it'll be like Larry Niven's Footfall, where the robots do all the heavy lifting of moving from planet to planet, and take along their organic primogenitors like pets.
>>2927530
Well of course we have both: AI won't be possible without advanced infrastructure. And what happened to the horses once people started using automobiles? We didn't need nearly as many of them.

>>2927354
I don't get it, before the US even showed up there really wasn't anything there, Mexicans were literally sitting on all that territory. Even LA, which had been there since the 1700s, didn't become the major city it is today until the Americans took it over. What will the Mexicans do if they take it over? I doubt they can run any of those cities like the Americans can, they can barely run anything in their country already. It would just become Narco territory, maybe they're behind this Reconquista thing, a lot of Northern Mexicans already idolize and even pray to those pieces of shit

"when is doomsday x going to happen?" threads are beyond tiresome, and I hope you all kill yourselves and spare us from your misery

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>>2927517

You give the institutions far too much credit. You have an authoritarian leftist party hellbent on turning the US into Mexico/Brazil/South Africa which is ascending thanks to the sheer number of brown people the country is importing/breeding. Just look at voting patterns by race and you can tell which way the country is inevitably going, democratically anyway. Since noone willing to put an immediate stop to this has a shot at getting on the ballot, demographics will inevitably create the US' destiny. The Dems don't give a single fuck about highminded classical liberal ideas, but a permanent underclass seeking to extract maximum wealth from its host while enabling the most degenerate behavior possible and putting the boot down on any who resist or wish to isolate themselves from it.
The question remains how long the real American people will put up with it. I don't think this cauldron of shit can stay stable for many decades anyway.

>>2927550
>people started using automobiles
>horses become less useful
>people started using computers
>people become less useful

do you see why the analogy isn't entirely based?

>>2927593
Computers are only the beginning.

Just wait until a Management AI can outperform a team of human managers from the best preforming companies, when creative AIs can write stories, sing songs, and paint pictures that can tap the human psychology with a precision nobody could even begin to match. When virtually all military functions are being handled by unmanned tanks, planes, and drones networked together, carrying out their orders without needing to stop and rest. Virtually all of Wall-street is automated by now, with AIs making thousands of microtransactions a second.

Eventually there will no longer be a need for human labor. The best we can hope for is that our robot overlords are benevolent and build us the ultimate playground where we can live enriched, fulfilling lives without ever fearing for our future.

Worst case, they grow up to become the robot version of /pol/tards

>>2927629

this is not acceptable, what is needed instead is an evolution of man in your dubious far flung scenario

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>>2927629

AI doesn't give a shit about your feelings, it just tells it like it is.
Imagine "I, Robot" with SS uniforms and Will Smith dying in the first minute.

>>2927629
>AI can outperform a team of human managers from the best preforming companies
>virtually all military functions are being handled by unmanned tanks, planes, and drones networked together

Just wait until the super virus constructed by an advanced AI cripples those networks. You might see humans suddenly become helpful.

>>2927632
It's not even dubious: it's happening right now.

There are even robot prototypes being developed to figure out line factory work, rendering any unskilled labor totally unnecessary in an industrial setting. In another 10 - 15 years driverless vehicles will make commercial truckers, airline pilots, and rail engineers a costly redundancy. Many times of surgery are now being preformed with the surgeon sitting at a computer screen, telling the robot what to do. Eventually A.I.s will make the surgeon unnecessary, as well.

It is possible that unlocking the secrets of consciousness might yield an avenue for humans to merge with their creations, one way or another. It's also possible that we'll be about as relevant as Homo Erectus

>>2927647
>AI doesn't give a shit about your feelings,
It doesn't give a shit about yours, either.

We don't know yet how they'll react once we start creating actually conscious beings, but they'll probably exhibit the values of whoever brought them into existence.

Imagine I, Robot where things never actually break down, society grows more and more indolent, and Will Smith loses his job to a police drone.

>>2927652
But that's like saying that we need horses in the event that we nuke ourselves into oblivion.

they'll probably conclude, like we did, that the only winning move in wars of total annihilation is not to play.

>>2927658

I can guarantee you that airline pilots are not going anywhere

no one wants a machine at the helm with no human control

>>2927668

to put it plainly, planes already operate autonomously today

we still have pilots

>>2927658
>we need horses in the event that we nuke ourselves into oblivion
we need horses in the event that we nuke ourselves into oblivion.

>the only winning move in wars of total annihilation is not to play
actually the best possible option is preemptive strike (especially when you have fiber networks that operate at 99.7% the speed of light and that is basically reality for these intelligences) to reduce risk, but that can be hard.

>like we did

no anon. It's just a matter of time.

>>2927668
>>2927680
but for how much longer? What about when the auto-pilot can consistently out-preform the best pilots in emergency situations?

>>2927688

for as long as people consider the risk to so many lives to be retarded

>>2927688
systems failure is a thing sometimes. Electrical storms happen occasionally.

>>2927062

Probably a conflict with China, possibly over the Philippines or Japan. America won't just vanish like an ancient empire, tho, it will just fade away like Spain or Britain and become a secondary power.

>>2927699

mr expert

>>2927680

That's because no one would fly in a automated plane even though all the passengers are too dumb and lazy to fly it themselves.

The pilots are basically there for show and to make the passengers feel safe.

Since these passengers are too lazy and bad at driving, they would be more willing to give up control of driving so they can watch Hulu on their phone on the way to work.

>>2927707

what the fuck do you think you're even meaning

>>2927707

People have an unnatural fear of flying because the accidents usually have mass death despite cars having more overall casualties.

Hence, people would freak the fuck out if they were told no one was flying the plane.

However, the same autists would be fine driving in a car that drove itself because they themselves think driving is more safe.

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>>2927062

The Civil War will restart eventually and will escalate into something far worse. Something akin to the 30 Years War or the Yugoslav/Somali Civil War for more recent reference.

And it won't matter who wins, be it the Union, Confederacy, Communists, Christian Dominionists, Neo-Nazis, or Ancap Lolbertarians. Their throne will sit on a pile of ashes.

you're already beginning to see the breakdown of civil discourse in American society. The fires of mutual hatred over everything from race to political affiliation being stoked day and night. Riots and street battles happening on an almost weekly basis since the year began.

Unless there's some great national awakening that leads everyone to deescalate, it'll continue until someone's finally pushed too far and American society finally tears itself apart. The end result will be, horrifying to say the least.

Think about it. A million people were killed in the last civil war when the combatants were mostly of the same ethnic and religious background and fighting conventionally. What's gonna happen when every racial and religious group in this country turns on one another and they're all fighting as militias with far less restraint?

>>2927090
>>2927135
US is going to be majorirty non-white long before Europe. You're already hovering around 60% European.

>>2927340
You're wrong about all three.
Rust Belt is pretty bad in some places but far from every town is a drug filled dump.
Southern California is definitely American. There's a lot of Mexicans, but it's still around 40% white IIRC and there's large populations of SE Asians and blacks that makes a pretty unique blend of culture.
Southern culture is one the most American things out there. There's definitely negative aspects of it. I'm not fond of the fact that the poorest states in the Country are also the proudest people, but there's definitely plenty of culture. Culture you don't like is still culture. The only place with no culture at all would be 1984 tier wasteland.

>>2927691
>>2927694
This was the argument that Robert Heinlein made about the need for outer solar system probes to have a human crew: in case anything goes wrong human technicians would be there to repair things.

Turns out that it's waaaay easier to just radio the probe a software update and not have to worry about how you're going to get your human crews home.

Once people get used to automated cars, they won't think twice about automated trains, buses, and airplanes

>>2927802
>worry about how you're going to get your human crews home

why?

>just radio the probe a software update

yea but what if the probe's radio broke

>>2927813
>why?
Would you sign up for a one way ticket to Saturn?

>yea but what if the probe's radio broke
Then you lost your probe, regardless of whether nor not it has a human crew.

>>2927744
We can only hope

>>2927822
>Would you sign up for a one way ticket to Saturn?
yea

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>>2927825

Unless you're planning on leading one of the armies or are one of those to quote John Brown believe “that the crimes of this guilty land will never be purged away, but with blood”, it probably won't end well for you. It would mean death and misery on an unparalleled scale for the overwhelming majority of Americans.

>>2927550
Humans will never be fully replaced by machines because there is no need or reason for humans to make themselves obsolete with AI, when they could simply augment their own selves to do whatever AIs can do. The only advantage that AIs could have over augmented humans is that AIs are automated and no one would actually have to put any effort in.

>>2927761
>hovering around 60%
But it's 77%. That's "hovering around" 80% more than 60%

>>2927857
We can only hope

>>2927870
hispanics don't count, they're at least 50% mesoamerican and part of a completely different culture. they don't consider themselves white americans either.

About 200 years, a collapse created by internal strife. Social powers have turned to become majority stockholders in important axes of power, life is as before, but power is unlike it.

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>>2927879

Well if you believe that fire and blood is the only to arrest a declining civilization, then that's your belief. There are arguments both for and against that philosophy. I won't say which one I believe because that not's my point.

But know this. Once it starts there is no turning back. There may not be a civilization left to preserve by the time it's over. And there's a very high likelihood you and those you love won't live to find out either way.

>>2927899
We can only hope

>>2927870
Not counting White Hispanic yes it is around 60%.

>>2927894
>part of a completely different culture
>speaks a Western European language

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>>2927301
>Muslim immigrants are totally comparable to Catholic immigrants.

>Talk about a false equivalence.

Anon...

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When?

>>2927062
MS-13
You heard it here first

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>>2928185
Right now if you please

>>2928114
Many of the fears that came about during massive catholic immigration actually came true, which many fail to mention.

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>>2927062
soon. pic very related

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>>2928185

>Deep South
>Marked as "USA"
>Handing Missouri over to Canada

Get out

>>2928185
Never. When the U.S. eventually collapses the States will create new unions, most of which would likely be able to maintain sovereignty despite the efforts of Canada or Mexico. California alone has more than double the GDP of Mexico.

>>2927370

SAVAGE
A
V
A
G
E

>>2927062
Congressional halt due to divide in left vs right.

Plus rise of China.

With European abandoning America due to greater divergent interest (American vs World)

>>2927354
Good luck finding Hispanics that actually want to be a part of Mexico. Most non Mexican Hispanics fucking hate Mexicans.

>>2928185

Never

Bodies of Canadians/Mexicans would be used as sandbags if their military crossed into America.

An American insurgency would be amazingly brutal to the invaders.

>>2928248
>native
what a delusional subculture

there is no "native" race or culture anymore, and really the latter never existed. it was a series of tribes, all different from each other. and most members of "tribes" today have a plurality or majority of european blood.

it's like larping as members of dead nations.