>yfw you read The God Delusion for the first time

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>>2924835
>yfw you read The God Delusion for the first time

For real, this book helped me a lot in quitting church.

I was raised in a protestant family that went to church every week. When I was 15 or so I started doubting that shit. Having no resources or even a clue how to articulate those doubts, I ignored them mostly. Friend of mine finally gave me this book.

Ofcourse we both went through a retarded phase of trying to convince all religious friends that they were retards and generally being a dick about it.

Highlight was the time we were celebrating a friends sisters 18th birthday church acceptance thing (dont know the english term) and were all piss-drunk. Asshole of a friend baited me into trying to convince that same girl she should have quit the church. It was about the equivalent of trying to convince a freshly married couple that monogamy is for idiots only.

Quit being an asshole about religion the next day. To be fair, had quite a lot of good talks with my parents about religion in the past few years. Mutual acceptance and all that.

I guess The God Delusion is just the Fight Club, the Gin Tonic, the Neutral Milk Hotel for Atheism: a low entry gateway that blows your mind, causes you to act like a dick and leads you to greater discoveries that leads you to realise your gateway was shit.

>>2924865
Why do people act like a dick over atheism? Is it part of American culture?

>>2924869
>if you read genre fiction you are a pleb
>if you listen to pop music you are cancer
>if you play dota2 you should die

Its generic elitism. You notice the loud minority being asses and assume the whole community is like that.

>>2924869
Not exclusive to atheism >>2924873

>>2924869
Not even american.

I think it depends on your environment. If you live in a community where most people are religious, not being religious automatically makes you part of a select group. Which doesnt have to lead to elitism; nobody is elitist about being part of a football team or reading club, even if you're the only one in your community that is a member of that club.

However, being part of a selective group will lead to elitism of this selectivity is combined with exclusivity. Atheists cant possibly be mutually interested in going to church and vice-versa. Thus a tension is created and those that are either in the minority or feel smaller somehow might retort to elitism. You'd see elitism in your local football team if they were barred from joining other sports organisations.

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>>2924865
You're an apostate and will burn in hell for eternity. Just know you brought this upon yourself, Jesus loves you but those who turn their back on God will not reach salvation.

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>he's listened to Jordan Peterson lectures but is still a fedora

How is this physically possible?

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http://christthetao.homestead.com/articles/thegoddelusion.pdf

read this shit OP

Anyone who gives Dawkins any credibility in a field other than evolutionary biology is intellectually feeble.

>>2924869
It's the most plebian philosophical belief imaginable, along with secular humanism

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>>2924835
Atheism is the most irrational belief. Militant atheists like Dawkins fail to understand the implications and how morality is not as basic as they make it out to be. Without our Jude-Christian heritage we simply would not think the way we do, and Atheists take that for granted. If there is no God, evil goes by unpunished. That's a dangerous idea.

>>2925199
>Without our Jude-Christian heritage we simply would not think the way we do

Correct, we would not be cucks and our temples would be awesome looking with dragons and serpents.

>>2925199
>atheism is the most irrational belief
>posts an atheist larping as a christian

You see, there is no god and no hell, but actually "god" means living well, and "hell" means living bad, so they exist, sorta, kinda, pls donate to my Patreon.

>>2924865

Call me when you're not an 18 year old"enlightened" faggot.

>>2924869
I'd think that the 'atheist are all missionaring fedoras'-understanding of atheism is derived from cultures of high religiosity where atheist are viewed as just sect among many, which is probably also why sospeopleme people make the inane argument that atheism is just another religion. As someone from an irreligious culture (Sweden) these things and stereotypes are utterly foreign with no connection to the swedish atheist.

>>2925260

>Sweden
>Irreligious

Islam counts as a religion

>>2925260
In Eastern Europe atheist is just seen as synonymous with liberal, homosexual, drug using, and overall /pol/'s stereotype for a degenerate.
Which is funny, because 95% of people don't worship, they just claim to be religious yet only visit temples on 4-5 holidays and don't even pray there, just show up for the ritual and then go back home to eat pork and drink alcohol.

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>>2925199

>Jude-Christian heritage
Niggah wut?

>Beliefs inform understanding
No shit sherlock

>If there is no God, evil goes by unpunished
If there is no Christmas then ham would go uneaten.

>>2925199
>Judeo-Christian heritage

Nice meme

>>2925268
>Islam is part of the swedish culture.
You might want to have atleast a basic understanding of a topic before commenting and making an arse out of yourself.

>>2925284
b-b-b-b-but muh /pol/ tho

>>2924835
>Atheist claims there's no god
>So this means that the universe came from nothing
>There's no evidence of this
>You can't get something from nothing (magic)
>If it's possible for a universe to come from nothingness along with consciousness to spontaneously arise inside the universe then why can't the theist claim this of a entity outside the universe?
>Atheist later says their atheism is just lack of belief in a god when you dismantle their bullshit
>Might claim this universe came from a prior one in an infinite chain but without an ultimate first cause, this is illogical since no beginning means nothing would be able to be instigated

This is why the Fedora loses debates

>>2925269
It's not surprising that something so central to old customs and traditions would be transformed into a label to denote non-degeneracy over time.

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>>2924835
If you want to get deeper down the rabbit-hole, watch a few vids on Jesus's hsitoricity from this dude. It's fucking hilarious how much sense he makes on how the jesus might have been a complete fable.
He is kinda dickish sometimes, and might be a cunt privately, not sure, but how he explains it sounds just like the most basic believable human bullshit that happens everyday instead of some super unlikely historic anomaly.
Anyway, carry on.

>>2925199
I don't believe in God, but I believe in a personal idea of good and evil and I personally punish what I view as evil. CHECKMATE CHRISTTHEIST

>>2925292
>The universe can't be infinite or eternal unless my magic sky dad exists specifically, my religion has a copyright on the infinite
Yeah alright just stand in the cornfield with the rest of the crazy people

>>2925199

I notice you made an argument that atheism is a "dangerous idea," but not that it's an "irrational belief." Putting aside whether that argument even has merit, it's a non sequitor.

>>2925292
1. Thats stupid.
2. Even if it wasn't stupid, it doesn't prove your religion is true and other religions are false.

>>2925284
>>2925286

If you are trying to argue that Swedens culture isn't drastically changing, you're in denial

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>>2925292
>Atheist claims there's no god
Noone does that. Only that you can't demonstrate there is, so believing it is irrational.
>>2925292
>atheism is just lack of belief in a god
Yep.

>>2925292
>You can't get something from nothing
Why not? If there is nothing (no laws, no logic, no causality) what stops something from just appearing? Not that it did, and not that anyone claims to know. Except deists of theists of course.

Wordgames! Wordgames everywhere!

>>2925329
Do you think a country's culture is drastically changed every summer when tourists come to the beach?
Do you think a town's culture changes when the local football team is playing, and people from other towns come to watch the game?

>>2925199
Religion takes from morality, not the other way around. Just look at current protestants who are okay with gays or catholics who are confirmed pedos, etc.

>>2925199
>If there is no God, evil goes by unpunished
The classic fallacy religious types makes.
Humans have morals whatsoever. Like all primates that live in social groups humans have a code for what is accepted behavior and what not.

>>2925292
>Atheist claims there's no god.
Wrong, atheism is the lack of belief in god/s. What you are conflating with atheism is gnostic atheistm.

>So this means that the universe came from nothing
That doesn't follow.

>You can't get something from nothing (magic)
Magic isn't nothing. The use of magic cannot then, by definition, be getting something from nothing. This is really basic logic.

>If it's possible for a universe to come from nothingness along with consciousness to spontaneously arise inside the universe then why can't the theist claim this of a entity outside the universe?
I don't know of anyone who would make the argument that the universe came out of literally nothing.
Even if we would accept that some idiot argues thus it is still not the same claim as saying that something else, who's existance we have no proof of, came out of nothing. In fact what you are doing here is trying to smuggle in the claim of the existance of the divine into another argument. For that argument to make any sense you'd first have to demonstrate the correctness of the hidden claim seeing as it's impossible for a nonexisting entity to be existing.

>>Might claim this universe came from a prior one in an infinite chain but without an ultimate first cause, this is illogical since no beginning means nothing would be able to be instigated
I agree with you here.
The problem of infinite regress is a bitch.

>>2925199
>If there is no God, evil goes by unpunished

This is the best reasoning for Gods existence. Someone can escape punishment in their life time, but they will still be by God punished after.

>>2925329
Are you retarded?
Culture isn't a vacuum. It's ever changing. That doesn't mean that the current culture of a place is equivable or even have that much in common with the future one.

>>2925292
>american education

The Big Bang doesn't mean "it came from nothing". It already assumes there was something. Its not the first step.
There was something (everything to be exact). That something, or everything, was very tightly compounded in a very small place. Then it exploded outwards, and we can observe it is still moving outwards. Over time, because there is a lot of stuff and a lot of time, sophistication formed as pieces of stuff collided.

And while we are at it, evolution doesn't mean chimpanzees became people, and the "missing link" isn't a scientific term, its a pop culture one.

>>2925274
>>2925280

>implying we don't

You don't need to be religious to realize the last nearly two thousand years of western history has been fucking steeped in it.

>>2925329
>>2925376
Forgot to add:
If you think that sweden's culture is turning into a islamic one then you should really improve your understanding of Sweden.

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>mfw

>>2925269
>just show up for the ritual and then go back home to eat pork and drink alcohol.
Not really representative talking about Muslims when when most of Eastern Europe is Christian.

>>2925370
It's not an argument for the existance of god at all.
It's an argument for the practicality of having a god.

>>2925389
>the last nearly two thousand years of western history has been fucking steeped in it
Steeped in christian culture yes. The jewish culture have been at most a marginal influence and then primarily in occultism and other forms of LARP's.

Judeo-christian heritage just means christian heritage while petting the jews on the back and keeping the muslims at an arm's length. As such it's just a ridiculous non-term.

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>>2924835
>yfw you read God delusion
It was the same, tired, old arguments that elitist atheists have been using for so long. A lot of the points were either based off a Christian teaching which in itself didn't make sense (earth being 6000 years for example) or the points were logically flawed.

It is nothing more than an arrogant atheist's shower thoughts. Cannot hold its own if you question it using logic or beliefs outside of Christianity

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>>2925472
>i only believe some of christianity, thus everybody does

No. Here's a poll by Slate magazine of random people on the street, asked to say YES/NO to these statements.
What you call the nonsensical part of christian teaching is the only type of christianity for a lot of people.
There are more creationists in the USA than there are atheists.

Honestly, I think its unwise to believe in god; but it I agree with their philosophies. So doing the things christians do is relatively good, but what I am trying to say is that you keep doing it, but without doing it thinking about Jesus or god, but because it are old traditions that are good for a person. So the philosophy and not the religion . . . What do you think?

>>2925497
That isn't christian philosophy though. It is philosophy that coexisted with christianity, and is associated with it.

>yfw you read The God Delusion for the first time
No one cares about your Fedora bible.

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>>2925472
> It was the same, tired, old arguments.
Many of the oldest arguments in the world are still legit to this very day. It isn't like Christians can ad nauseam handwave all blatant contradictions with same meaningless excuses all the time.

Of course, the subject of theism itself is much more complex, than such arguments, but they should be remembered from time to time, as a valid critic of the absurd side of the belief.

>>2925497
Why would you limit yourself to following a religion's practices if you don't actually believe in it?

>>2925582
>if we keep making the same arguments those dumb christards will eventually give up their silly sky daddy. it's bound to happen any day now we just gotta stick to the talking points!

>>2924902
lol keep living in fear so you can die having never lived

>>2925630
Arguments aren't directed to dumb christards, they are here to be considered by less hard-line people.

>>2925644
regardless it takes a lot of faith to believe that you can argue away religion which is especially funny because you would think the obsessively rational fedora community would realize most people dont become religious for intellectual reasons. its almost like they dont really want to address the actual reasons most people convert (sense of purpose/meaning, community etc...) so instead they attack the intellectual aspects of faith that most people don't even care about because it allows them to "prove" how smart they are. fedoras are truly master debaters.

>>2925687
so... if arguing doesn't work why christfags are so mad about new atheism?

>>2924899
Let me guess
"X cannot be prove therefore there should be a god "

>>2925710
because the manner in which they go about making their arguments is obnoxious and arrogant. as mentioned earlier ITT new atheism doesn't actually have any new ideas, what they do have is an x-treme™ attitude that doesn't simply just reject religion but vocally holds it in contempt. older atheist thinkers at least showed respect for religion as a social institution but new atheists have adopted this "kill em all" 'tude which no doubt is appealing to the adolescent boys who are the primary consumers of their material but it doesn't exactly endear them to society at large.

>>2925745
So according to you people should respect institutions and traditions that they find immoral and evil?
If you don't then why is this anything but butthurtedness from your side?

>>2925199
Atheism is the most rational belief, you're just an idiot.

>>2925773
the fact that you honestly believe religion is universally immoral and evil without a single positive quality is precisely the attitude i was referring to and the sooner you and the rest of the new atheists realize that most people are turned off by your dogmatic hatred of religion the better.

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>>2925268
>>2925329
>>2925390
>Sweden, who would believe this? Sweden!

>>2925306

Your personal opinions are not objective though, so your attempts to punish "evil" could be just as, if not more "evil".

>>2925980
>punishes you for being evil by disagreeing

t. Christopher Hitchens

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>lives in the 21st century with a plethora of resources that allow you to grow closer to Christ in love for Him which weren't available to your devout ancestors
>chooses to become an atheist after reading a book that was thrown together from unreliable sources by a staunch Englishman with a degree (does he even have a doctorate?) from a worthless field
It takes a special kind of fool, I guess.

>>2926016
>2017
>believing in sky fairy
lol no

>>2926019
Do you believe in evolution and the Big Bang theory?

>>2925292
>something can't come from nothing!
>except god can come from nothing!

>>2924902

Empty threats and promises.

>>2924869
There's an unobservable amount of atheists that don't post about religion.

>>2925305
dunno about that, tea be aged
https://historyforatheists.com/2016/07/richard-carrier-is-displeased/

>>2924902
>You're an apostate and will burn in hell for eternity

Make more pleople quit you are doing Dawkins work gj lad

>>2924835
I try to avoid associating with atheists.

That how Dawkins feels for science and nature is the same thing Thomas Aquinas called God. And their definitions for what makes the world work are not mutually exclusive

>>2925269
Yeh I can pull random percentages out of my ass as well

>>2925306
Those are your views and not the publics views. The law and rules are based on Christian norms if you live in the Western world

>>2925797
Where the fuck did you get the notion that I do that from, perhaps you should improve your reading comprehension?

>>2926846
Are you serious? That's one of the most asinine claims I've ever witnessed.

>>2926846
>>2927618

Oh and for fun, what laws can you specifically point out and from what country that that are based on christian norms and rules?
Hot tip, neither roman nor germanic law has its origin in christianity nor dors it have much in common with it.

>>2927470
>Where the fuck did you get the notion that I do that from
Not who you're responding to but every single post by yours makes it obvious. Especially le "immoral and evil" as if every religious institutions is evil and not worthy of respect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tp1eZdtkdQM

>>2927803
How bad is your reading comprehension?
Please enlighten me regarding where I said the shit you claim I do.
If you're refering to my comment where I asked if people should respect things they deem evil and immoral, well then that was obviously based on the position embraced by the so called New Atheists if you'd bother to read the the comment I responded to. The fact that I refered to someone elses position doesn't mean that I share it.

>>2924865
>the equivalent of trying to convince a freshly married couple that monogamy is for idiots only
literally kill youre self

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>>2924835

>>2927872
Fuck my drunk self I meant to quote >>2927817

>>2926365
That's cuz mom took his computer away for muttering 'God's no real' in Church. He didn't even get to post his bravery on reddit!

>>2924872
It's the 99% that are assholes that give the good and decent 1% a bad name...

I respect Dawkins for arguably bringing atheism out of the underground, but I can never read that book again. The tirades are just too verbose and spiteful without purpose.

But hey, if if it keeps triggering Christians, all the better.

>>2925710
I bet you get mad when bible-thumpers say that you're a godless sinner that's going to burn: we get mad when people describe us religious folk as "plague rats", "vermin", "human refuse", and other such terms.

>>2927983
And now it's been driven back underground by hat memes. Sad, it was supposed to be the next big thing.

Daily reminder that atheism is the fastesr shrinking religion in the world.

>>2926065
God always was, and will always be. Things don't need a beginning if they always existed.

>>2924869
There are demonstrably a lot more people who are dicks about religion than people who are dicks about not believing in God. Far more vocal.too

Dawkins invented memes, without him there would be no 4chan. That I can respect.

>>2924902
>will burn in hell for eternity
>Jesus loves you

Choose one.

>>2925292
>You can't get something from nothing (magic)

The chaos magick meta-model can work perfectly with science.

>>2925980
The personal opinions of those people who wrote the Bible are not objective though, so their attempts to punish "evil" could be just as, if not more "evil".

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>>2924835
>when you read "Goosebumps: The Ghost Next Door" for the first time

I'm an agnostic atheist

>>2925238
>he doesn't understand that the feeling of spirituality of rooted in biology
truly a pleb

>>2925344
I'm probably reading too much into this, but I'm having trouble actually answering that.
Not the guy you quoted by the way

>>2925636
Good one!
Christians are safe in the knowledge that their god loves them and they have a place in paradise when they die. What do you have?

>>2924869

It's fun to know something no one else knows and rub it in their faces. I went to highschool with creationists and holy shit did I roast them.

>>2925208

...and as a result our enterprise of civilization would fail due to the brutishness of paganism.

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>>2925199
What is so about your christianity? Why is it that anglo christian feel the need to add judeo while talking about their value, when really it's just christianity + some secular ideas?

>>2930019
Didn't knew ju deo was a magic word desu

>>2925199
>If there is no God, evil goes by unpunished.

Then why have laws at all? If God punishes evildoers why should we be bothered with having laws?

Have you ever witnessed God punishing anyone? Why didn't Hitler get struck by lightning?

>>2928738
>son, even though you robbed that house, I still love you
>I can't stop them from putting you in jail though

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>>2924835

>>2929672
Faith is not knowledge. Christians are comforted by faith, not safe in any knowledge. Not decrying Christianity at all here, just pointing that out. Faith is faith. Nothing less, but nothing more.

>>2930084
>I
>Them
There is only one God, anon

>>2924899
I remember that period after 2006 when a small cottage industry sprang up that was just Christian apologists of various shapes and sizes writing endless shelves of books titled 'the Dawkins/Atheism/Science delusion' in response to Dawkins. It came across as desperate at the time, and saying things like 'atheist fundimentalism' on the cover just makes me cringe a little bit now.

It's a shame, because McGrath is a good scholar. I'd forgotten that he'd been involved in all that.

>>2925370
Not an argument at all though. All it shows is that God is required for there to be cosmic justice in the world, but why would an atheist be committed to the existence of ultimate cosmic justice?

>>2929946
>Christianity is never brutish.
You tell me which is worse: killing a goat on an alter every weekend or slaughtering Spaniards for thought-crimes.

>>2932068

Killing lesser people is the opposite of brutish.

>>2926026
Not that anon, but yes?

>>2932078
And thus the eternal catholic reveals his face.

>>2932078
>the average 4chan """""""christian"""""""
LMAO.
Is that how you turn the other cheek?

>Don't believe in God since I wasn't raised to and the fact that I'll essentially burn in hell unless I follow EVERY religion, and if I follow EVERY religion then I will definitely burn in hell
>people get ASSBLASTED about it for some reason
>people say the lack of a religion is in itself a religion

Yes I am tipping my fedora but I just want to not have to be judged about whether or not I believe in a god, and if I don't why don't I?
Religion is nice for some people, but its not my thing. Religion has produced some cool shit, and I would like to see the Spanish missions in California, but don't harass me about how I won't have morals because I don't believe in Jesus.