Aesthetic tactics

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>be average Carthage soldier
>see 80,000 of these badasses charging you on their elephants

>>2911618
Looks like kid pajamas.

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Battle depictions are game too.

>>2911636
this meme is getting out of hand

>>2911628
why

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>>2911652
If you jump in the air you always have the high ground.

>>2911628
>jumping over the shield wall that would protect you of the incoming charge before it even hit, thus jamming yourself between enemy fighters and friendly pikes
That's pretty dumb.

>>2911656
I'm intrigued. What appeal did this formation have? Did fresh troops at the front line preform significantly better than worn ones? How did the cavalry manage to turn their backs to the battle and be safe? How wide were these formations in practice? This pic seems like it could be flanked.

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Spanish Tercio = Best Tercio

>>2911628
>MUH CINEMATIC ACTION SEQUENCES
fucking americans

>>2911652
Because the producers(or Warner btards don't really know) got so greedy that when the original director left, they gave PJ almost no time to do what he was supposed to do. LOTR years of pre-production.

My butt still clenches in agony because of this fuck up. Fucking motherfuckers.

>>2911673
*LOTR had

I'm too angry for this.

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>>2911666
>What appeal did this formation have? Did fresh troops at the front line preform significantly better than worn ones?
The first line would fire and then fall back to the rear of the formation for reloading, followed by the next rank and so on... It's called Counter-march, and musketeers did the same thing.

>How did the cavalry manage to turn their backs to the battle and be safe?
Against enemy cavalry : they didn't, and that's one reason why this tactic was abandoned. On the other hand, pikemen really couldn't do anything.

>How wide were these formations in practice?
During the Thirty Years War, Tilly's regiment were 80 wide, and Dutch and German were 50 wide.

>>2911652
They were shooting a practical version of the battle but the schedule was so chaotic that they had to scrap it. They fired all the extras on the spot too.

>>2911628
Retarded

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>>2911669
agreed

>>2911628
>Elven cucks jump right between friendly pikes And charging enemy
>Heavier And more armoured orcs who have advantage of already being in a motion hit them
>Light weight elven cucks got thrown at friendly shield wall

Is this the ultimate retard tactics? Not even modern Italian Army would do something as retarded.

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19th century naval warfare makes me hard desu

>>2911670
>Peter Jackson
>American
OBSESSED
B
S
E
S
S
E
D

>>2911605
>256
did the macedonians know about the binary system

>>2911988
> Loose the hounds!

Bet you wish you'd made those shields longer now!

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>>2911669

>>2911636
How do historians know what color cloth they wore? Or the style of their armor?
Isn't it kinda like guessing what dinosaurus looked like? Like they could have feathers or be yellow or anything, all we have is fossils.
???

I wish that all that mattered in wars was how aesthetic the formation/ armor was and how much relative swag each side had.
I wish war hadn't degenerated..

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>>2911647
i have a few i can post

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>>2911605

>>2912165
wat
We are talking about humans here. They left written records, archeological artifacts (like pieces of armour) and artistic depictions. How can you compare historical records and findings with fossils from animals that lived 65 million years ago?
>inb4 I was merely pretending

>>2912144
Brutal

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>>2912172
cuirassiers on the right hussars on the left

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>>2912186
russian conquest of the steppe, not exactly sure on this one

>>2912176
actually on that cavalry strike every horse also carried a light infantryman behind the rider so pic not accurate

>>2912075
>what is kneeling

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>>2912239
>What is becoming a target for artillery

Or

MOTHER
FUCKING
WAR
CHARIOTS
OH
SHIT
NIGGA

>>2912075

>AESTHETIC formations thread
>Goes full autist to point out any flaw in given formation.

ok

>>2911628
God damn it, why did Peter Jackson have to make the Hobbit?

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>>2911652
>>2911658
>>2911670
>>2911863
>>2911949
>>2912484
>>2911949
>Elven cucks jump right between friendly pikes And charging enemy

Consider the following:
>Elves and Dwarves don't get along
>Elves say fuck the Dwarves and go for glory.

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>>2911605

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>>2912663

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>>2912665

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>>2912667

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>>2912668

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>>2912669

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>>2912670

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>>2912675

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>>2912677

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>>2912681

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>>2912683

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>>2912684

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>>2912700

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>>2912702

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>>2912706

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>>2912707

>>2912503
Except in the books they were able to at least get along well enough to work out sensible tactics.

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>>2912777

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>>2912781

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>>2912783

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>>2912785

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>>2911605
'60's & 70's hardware

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>>2911998
>>2911882
>>2911669

glorious af

>>2911647
Those damn Yanks and their nets..

>>2911628
the elvish line during the War of the Ring scene in the first LotR movie was slick as fuck, though

>>2912144
Source?

>>2912832
alatriste

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTYuYxmICGo&t=104s

>>2911618
>everyone is armored to shit in this era
>better carry a slashing short sword as my primary weapon hurr

literally the only explanations for eastern warfare is shitty armor or virtually everyone they fought didn't have armor, like the samurai.

>>2912842
Gracias

>>2912709
>That downward-pointing sabaton
Just fuck my ability to walk normally up senpai

>>2912926
>Lords
>walking

begone peasant

>>2912870
>what is naginata

>>2912870
>eastern warfare
Oh boy

>>2912829
> Trying to stop an advancing line by raising your sword exactly at the moment of contact
Slick maybe, but useless in real life

>>2912503
Elves are suppose to be a literal ancient, super intelligent and powerful race filled with heroes and warriors that have survived countless battles for thousands of years, you do not survive for thousands of years being literal retards on the battlefield because muh glory (with a few exceptions obviously)
They should have supported the flanks of the phalanx and flanked if they were able, the dwarves show an amazing ability to hold the line at the end of the battle, they didn't need the help. The elves meanwhile were practically all dead by the time the dwarves were making their final stand because they decided to be retards and abandon tactical sense, which is ridiculous considering how ridiculously drilled and experienced the elf army is in the previous setup scenes.

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>>2912870
swords aren't primaries my guy

>>2913654
Please actually READ Tolkien before you say crap like this. The elves in question, those of the Woodland realm, got slaughtered during the War of the Last Alliance the exact same way their forebears got crushed during the First age, namely by taking a bunch of guys with hunting bows to try to fight armored orcs and getting nowhere.

Elves are no brighter than hum,ans. They certainly aren't all survivors of countless battles,or heroic warriors. And they don't particularly drill, or at least give no indication of such.

>>2913747
The old guard dies but it does not run

>>2912065
Just 16 long and 16 wide.

>>2912870
Eastern warfare was overwhelmingly fought with spears and bows and occasionally won with decisive cavalry charges (does that sound familiar? it should). Swords were side arms used for personal defense or fighting in the thick of a melee where you can't really use a spear. Something worth noting is that both the spears and bows used in Japan in particular were two handed weapons which is why shields fell out of use. They were used previously in the genpei war and earlier major conflicts, but the reliance on very long two handed spears as well as archers caused personal shields to be less common and instead portable screens and barricades became the norm.

>>2911846
this is fascinating

>>2913654
Except those are Sylvan Elves, basically the lowest caste/race of elves among the Umanyar, the only elves lower than them on the Elven totem pole are the Avari, who are so irrelevant that no tales of them exist. Here's a list of Sylvan Elf "heroic" accomplishments throughout the Ages:
>First Age: summoned to fight by the Sindarin High King, Thingol, in the First Battle against Morgoth, their appointed king was killed and much of his army slaughtered because they had nothing but light leather armor and hunting bows. Spend rest of First Age hiding in Ossiriand until it's destroyed thousands of years later following the catastrophic Last Battle against Morgoth
>Second Age: a Sindarin elf proclaims himself king of your people and you roll with it. Then in the Last Alliance of Elves and Men at the end of the Second Age you are once again summoned to battle, this time by the last Noldorin High King, Gil-galad. Your Sindarin king decides he doesn't like taking orders from a Noldor elf and leads your (leather-clad and armed with hunting bows only) people to be slaughtered once again by orcs (who this time are commanded by Sauron).
>Third Age: the son of that Sindarin elf who got your people butchered thousands of years ago decides he wants to lead you into a war against orcs, dwarves, and humans over some treasure or something and you agree because apparently your great history of failure has taught you nothing

>>2913757
>Elves are no brighter than hum,ans
The Eldar were supposed to be very wise, especially those who actually went to Aman. Woodland Elves though were basically no better than men.

>>2914062
The Eldar have their share and more of phenomenally stupid shit that they do. Pretty much everything Feanor does ever is retarded.

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>>2912870
You do know that is a Ming-Qing style brigandine armor worn by heavy cavalrymen?

In particular that is Qing period, worn by bannermen cavalrymen, who fought primarily as horse archers, but wielded all sorts of weapons like lances, swords, maces, axes and muskets.

>>2914082
Noldor became blinded by butthurt over the Silmarils, but the Sindar were making the best out of a bad situation for the most part. Oropher not withstanding.

>>2914111
For starters, the Sindar never went to Aman. Secondly, the Sindar do a lot of dumb crap too. Thingol's "let me fuck over the entire kingdom because I don't like my daughter's boyfriend" springs rather readily to mind.

>>2914130
Sindar are still Eldar, Eldar just refers to Elves of the Great Journey. The Sindar are those of the Teleri who went west and then settled in Beleriand. Also don't forget Thingol got fucking lost in Beleriand and that's why his people never went to Aman.

>>2914132
Yes, I know. But you specifically stated >>2914062
> especially those who actually went to Aman

Also, didn't Thingol not so much get lost as found a hot maia chick to bone?

>>2914135
It depends on the version. A lot of references to it just say he became lost in the forests of what became Doriath, but that's where his wife was so he probably just got tired from boning her.

>>2914135
>>2914137
Oh, and Thingol actually did go to Aman by the way. He's the only Sindar to ever see the light of the trees. Back when he was still called Elwe he was one of the three Elven ambassadors chosen to go to Aman and then bring word back to their people of the light of Valinor. And a lot of good it did him.

>>2911975
How worthless were the chinese boats compared to the European ones?

I get the feeling the Europeans could do 8s around those fucking ships.

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>>2912870
>>2914108
In addition,
>everyone is armored to shit in this era
considering OP's pic has much of it's brigandine plates remove save the chest area, I bet, that piece of kit is from the 1700s.

Which was a period where mass armor usage died in China (and almost everywhere else) because the state armies were so large, it was better to dedicate production in weaponry than in armor.

Just like their European counterparts, the Chinese soldier of the 1700s wore uniforms, with infantry having the typical jacket with a rank badge in front (kinda like an Imperial Chinese dogtag). Only the Bannermen were armored, performing the role of both horse archer and heavy cavalry cuirassier.

>>2912144
Men killing men, all for the kings and their little sausages.

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I made this just now. This seems like the best place to post it. Obviously the exact numbers varied by period and nation, especially at Field Army and above, and these are more modern numbers, but I still think it's neat.

>>2913793
But then they did ^^

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Pssh... nothing personnel triarii

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>>2914152
>Which was a period where mass armor usage died in China (and almost everywhere else) because the state armies were so large, it was better to dedicate production in weaponry than in armor.
While there certainly was a decline in armor,the Green standard armies of the Rebellion of the Three Feudatories still used armor to some extent.

There's even mid-Qing artwork by a Japanese visitor that showed local militias with Ming period armaments.

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>>2914739
Qing soldiers with Ming armaments from Qing Guo Piao Liu Tu c1810

>>2914420
Neat

>>2912144
sauce on this?

>>2911670
hey, we didn't like it either.

>>2911628
what anime is this?

>>2914420
What era? What army?
Where are you getting this data?
Is it just what you think the avg would be?

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>>2912484
It's not like he wanted too, Guillermo was supposed to work on the latter half of films but New-Line made Jackson work on it. As in Guillermo was at the end of the whole pre-production phase when the studio decided to make the last minute change. At that point he had half the normal time it took to work on a film-starting from scratch, having to do script changes and crap. It was a mess

>The Problem With The Battle of Five Armies
https://youtu.be/SQkygZdZ_Vk

>>2915411 Not to derail the thread with the hobbit, just want to add...

notice how's peter's waistline got larger from all the stress.

>>2912842
I fucking love that scene, just because of the badass response when they're given the terms of surrender: "Tell the Duke of Enghien that we appreciate his words, but this is a Spanish Tercio."

Plus, when I first saw the movie I didn't notice it at first, but the actor that plays Alatriste is Viggo friggin Mortensen, and I have to say, his Spanish accent is impeccable.

>>2914420
Me on the right.

>>2913863
You forgot the mass crossbow fire.

>>2915424
>Δεν Είμαι Εγώ starts playing

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>>2914026
Elves were a mistake.

>>2917069

As much as I dislike WW2 Japan, I'm glad the US didn't force them to ditch the Rising Sun naval jack. It's an aesthetic af flag.

I also really like Meiji era battle prints

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>>2917099

forgot pic

>>2912178
Fooled you XD

>>2914026
So in a few thousand years there was basically zero technological or tactical advances?

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>>2912663
>destroying fields

>>2913747
why do they look black here

>>2917102
is that the russian navy getting shrekt?

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>>2911605
This kills the Spartan.

Does anyone else look at these images and struggle to picture it as 'real' ? I get this with black & white photgraphs too. Anyone else know what I'm talking about or is it just autism?

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>>2912870
What are you talking about ?

>>2917675
I feel you. Especially with black and white photographs. You knew that far away in the past, they were here, at this very moment. It's your only certitude, you don't get to know what was before and after, who these dudes actually were, what their lives was. They're so close, yet too far to relate to them like you do with a contemporary picture.
Sorry for autism post

>>2917629
Because blackpowder is composed of charcoal and it tends to soot every fucking thing. I'm amazed that this is the second time someone asked this question.

>>2917773

Well put. Quite sad in a way. They are just pictures now.

>>2912256
>>2912075
What an autist

>>2915089
"Alatriste" movie adaptation

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>>2917651

I think that's the Beiyang Fleet in the First SJW. These are Russians here.

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>>2917675

Black & white photographs are definitely harder to relate to, especially shittier quality ones (pre-ww2 mostly).

I've studied WW1 for years but color photographs of that era still feel like a completely different war to me.

>>2911636
>Romans didn't even utilize this kind of gear when carthage existed

get out of /his/ faggot

>>2911628
>be retarded welf
>jump over spearwall into orc charge trying to look cool
>orc just pushes you towards the spears behind you
>entire spear wall has dead welfs impaled on the tips
>orcs get a free meatshield and fuck the welfs up

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>>2911669
*teleports behind you*
*mows down your stone-age tier pike blocks with repeated volleys of close range gunfire*
*finishes off survivors with combined arms charges*

Why were the swedes so ubersmensch at war.

>>2918976

It is the Beiyang fleet, the Chinese ships are labeled as such (and they are all getting wrecked).

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Russian Life Guard Cuirassiers

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>>2919081
Uniform of a General of Napoleon's Swiss Guard.

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>>2911605

>>2917102
>>2918976
Wow, this art looks actually pretty good.

>>2920629
It's better than anime.

>>2917672
was it karma for destroying Plataea for perfidious Thebes

>>2919068
The only special thing they did was involve more cav because gun powder got cheaper

What books or websites are good resources for picture references of the various military uniforms of armies and countries in history?

>>2911658
>>2911949
>>2919043
Why do you think the elves are a dying race?

>>2913793
Unless you're British

>>2923330
Osprey
/tg/'s historical wargaming general /hwg/ has links to a bunch based on time period

>>2916307
>when I first saw the movie I didn't notice it at first, but the actor that plays Alatriste is Viggo friggin Mortensen, and I have to say, his Spanish accent is impeccable

two things: A.) how the fuck did you not notice, and B.) while he is a native speaker, diego alatriste is supposed to be leonese or castillian, not basque/occitan as viggo portrayed him

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swiss guards

>>2915444

Making the Hobbit movies made him fat and grey.

>>2919068
>*mows down your stone-age tier pike blocks with repeated volleys of close range gunfire*

Nah, the only battle in which spanish forces met the swedish, was a decisive victory for Spain.

>>2920871

a lot of things are better than anime

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>>2924829

>>2911670

what is it with foreigners and posting stupid bullshit like this?

>>2912165
anon...

Spartan phalanx is fucking sexy

>>2917629
There were no white people before 1900, they are an invention of the Nazis and belong to underground.

>>2917304
There was actually a decline, since the dwarves died out and the Noldor, a race of Elves that specialized in mining and metalwork, were mostly exterminated, after they invaded the Soviet Union in winter.

>Long he spoke, and ever he urged the Noldor to follow him and by their own prowess to win freedom and great realms in the lands of the East [...] ‘Fair shall the end be,’ he cried, ‘though long and hard shall be the road! Say farewell to bondage! But say farewell also to ease! Say farewell to the weak! Say farewell to your treasures - more still shall we make! Journey light. But bring with you your swords! For we will go further than Tauros, endure longer than Tulkas: we will never turn back from pursuit. After Morgoth to the ends of the Earth! War shall he have and hatred undying. But when we have conquered and have regained the Silmarils that he stole, then behold! We, we alone, shall be the lords of the unsullied Light, and masters of the bliss and the beauty of Arda! No other race shall oust us!’
t. Feanor, High King of the Nazis

In Tolkien's work, every age is smaller, greyer, weaker than the last.

>>2926080
Tell that to the Numenoreans.

>>2917672
Isn't this just numerical superiority?

>>2926082
Norldor > Numenor > Gondor > Rohan-Gondor Confederation

>>2926099
Nah dude, the Numenoreans were enormously more powerful than the Noldor. Even the Vanyar (and the Ainur!) piss themselves and run away when Ar-Pharazon lands in Valinor, and run crying to God to clean up their mess.

>>2926098
Oblique order tactics do not necessarily involve superior numbers. The goal is to locally focus your strength on one flank while the rest of your troops fight defensively, holding the line. After the enemy is beaten at that flank you can then proceed to roll him up from that side.

>>2912063
its the source on this "alfthegreat34"?

>>2911669
>>2911846
>>2911656
>>2911998


16th and 17th century is the most aesthetic in all facets: formations, armor, clothing, hair styles.

>>2919068
>be a filthy northern heretic
>declare war on your neighbor treacherously during their civil war
>win 2 battles due to surprise
>get killed in a third when the Germans send a good commander against you
>your state becomes a mercenary vassal of France

>>2912684
Why were the arms of Burgundy so aesthetic?

>>2912677
>Lightly armored

I would consider even a bit of plate and chain would be armored.