Was the Ming Dynasty successful or a failure? The opinions I'm

>>2911554
>Half the sources claim it was stagnant
Possibly
>isolated
Nope.jpg. Meme anti-piracy sea-bans aside, you had shitloads of contact with foreigners. Most notably Western Europeans, whose Jesuits were crawling all over the Ming court hoping it would make Catholicism sweet for the Chinese.
>and intellectually backwards
Subjective. You had scientific exchange with foreigners. You also had Neo-Confucianism. But there were also radicals and traditionalists though, considering the fact that Jesuits were in court until the Ming fell, it wasn't as rabid as the Qing.

>The other half claim it was a period of great economic growth,
Earlier. But then they had trouble with inflation near the end.
>traded heavily with Europe and Japan,
Yes. Mostly Spain, Portugal, and the Dutch.
>and were happy to import European weapons.
Even better: after importing some, they made them themselves. They had European gunners among the Jesuits who in turn taught Chinese artillery manufacturers. Again, hoping to sweeten missionary activity in China.

>>2911554
Also the Ming dynasty had no flag. Seriously, who the fuck makes these things?

>>2911585
>Possibly
Stagnant in what sense then?

>Nope.jpg. Meme anti-piracy sea-bans aside
So the idea that they burned their ships because they were afraid of globalism is just a meme then?

>whose Jesuits were crawling all over the Ming court hoping it would make Catholicism sweet for the Chinese
Were they making any headway before the Qing?

>Even better: after importing some, they made them themselves. They had European gunners among the Jesuits who in turn taught Chinese artillery manufacturers.
So they were at least on parity with the West at this point then

the opinions conflict because there is quite a large time span to deal with. policies that worked at the beginning didn't necessarily adapt well to the end of the dynasty (hence its demise, in part)

>>2911637

The Sea Ban is very often misconstrued as an act of pure retardation, which it was at times, but a reformed implementation is what brought an end to the wokou.

The idea was never a blanket ban on naval activities, it was supposed to keep all maritime business regulated so the government could stop smugglers from supplying the wokou. While the Wokou were both Chinese and Japanese, the funding that kept them operating came from Chinese smugglers and businessmen who wanted to shut down their competition, on one side you had piracy, on the other side racketeering. Fishermen were not included in the Sea Ban order, but corrupt local officials often targeted them as an easy way to make money, which then drove them to the Wokou.

> Were they making any headway before the Qing?

They were making headway during Qing. A number of Jesuits simply stayed in Beijing when the Ming retreated, and were accepted by the Qing emperors in good order. Emperor Kangxi was so impressed by the Jesuits that he issued a decree giving Catholicism "equal" status with the other common religions, which is tolerated as long as it doesn't interfere with state business.

Then the Dominican came to China and they were outraged that the Jesuits were preaching to the Chinese in Chinese (a proper Catholic learns Latin). They got the Pope to issue a Papal bull that Chinese ancestor rites were heathen idolatry, which got every Catholic priest kicked out of China, until the West kicked the door down with the Opium Wars.

File: Admiral Zheng He.jpg (77KB, 470x651px) Image search: [Google]

77KB, 470x651px

>>2911637
>So the idea that they burned their ships because they were afraid of globalism is just a meme then?
Meme.
I) Who the fuck is even talking of globalism in the 1400s?
II) They didn't burn their navy. Jesus christ who was fighting pirates then? They stopped Zheng He's expeditions.
III) They stopped funding Zheng He because 1) His mission of gunboat/charm diplomacy in the spice route has been achieved, 2) they were expensive, the equivalent of having a fleet cruise liners in a 24/7 party escorted by carrier battlegroups. 3) The Mongols were starting shit again and money have to be diverted for defense.

>>2911598
Paradox

>>2911554
Failure in the sense that it warns of the dangers of stratification.

Under the Ming, they had a hereditary military system. Now in other nations like Japan and Medieval Europe this would be the ruling class. However in Ming China, the soldiers were at the bottom of the social ladder because theoretically under the Scholar Gentry they did not earn their position.

When the Manchus invaded and put out a advertisement for able collaborators and administrators, the military leaders, the one with the weapons probably thought 'fuck you nerds I'm joining the Manchu now.'