China

>>2908004
Gradual economic reforms

/thread

>>2908029
Any reforms/points I should look at in particular? I'd like to do some brief internet reading.

Muh mandate of heaven

China has managed to move to a market system while still having state guidance, which allows the populace to have consumer goods. the USSR was obsessed with heavy industry for much longer and had problems with supply because of the calculation problem.

The bigger thing is that Gorbachev opened up the country socially so that criticism of the government overflowed all at once and allowed nationalism to explode. if China had done the same thing we would have seen open revolts in Tibet, xinjiang, and the southeast, plus more h an being openly against the One party rule and censorship. that would have torn the country apart since it's not built on principles of tolerance.

>>2908004
Chinese characteristics

>>2908125
>"""Socialism""" with """Chinese characteristics"""

>>2908034
When Deng Xiaoping took over from Mao Zedong, he implemented "Communism with Chinese Characteristics".

This economic reform was ironically enough based on the New Economic Policy (NEP) that the Soviet Union had used before Stalin came to power. The NEP wasn't communism at all (not memeing). It was basically state capitalism where the state only owned a few sectors of the economy.

Unsurprisingly, this system is/was far more successful than full communism implemented in either the Soviet Union or China.

>>2908004
Because they're not communism anymore.

>>2908004
My nigga Deng "Don't give a fuck if that cat be black or white, so long as it shits on mice" Xiaoping

>Communist China
>successful
Pick one. China was shit under Mao and drastically began to improve after his death and China underwent huge economic reforms with end results that weren't communism.

>>2908154
Despite how shitty and retarded it was, Mao China was better than 1850-1950 China.

Because communism is perfectly adapted to the mediocre nature of the chinese race.
You wouldn't even need communism to make them behave like they do.

>>2908207
It was called "Century of humiliation" for a reason

>>2908213
>>>/pol/

>>2908239
>>>/reddit/

>>2908207
Life in 1950s Russia was better than life in 1850s Russia. WHO'D HAVE THUNK?

>>2908289
>mediocre race

If Chinese are mediocre, what does that make Germanics banging stones together for a thousand years before they ruined Rome?

>>2908299
Life in 1949 China was hell on Earth. Great strawman argument though!

Gorbachev was an incompetent alcoholic that opened up the USSR to outside economic adn social forces all at once. PRC did it over the span of 30 years instead

>>2908004
Because China isn't communist/thread.

>>2908350
>muh "real communism"

>>2908754
How is China communist? They're just an authoritarian capitalist dictatorship.

>>2908763
Technically speaking they are actually an authoritarian mercantilist dictatorship.

>>2908346
This, he drank the political kool-aid coming from the West.

>>2909249
They aren't a dictatorship in any way. If so, tell me who is the dictator.

>>2908121
do you know what heavy industry is?

>>2908763
>How is China communist
its run by the communist party

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>>2909393
?

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>>2908299
Life in 1850s Russia was better than life in 1850s Qing China.

You try dodging state decline, corrupt officials, opportunistic foreigners, drug abuse, famine, banditry and the most lethal civil war in its history.

Russian serfs had it easy compared to the Chink peasant.

>>2909412
>Current Prime Minister of Chinkdom.
That's like saying Hu Jintao or Deng Xiaopeng were dictators lmao.

The real head of the CCP is the Politburo, not some one man.

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>>2908004
Biggest reason was that China checked out of the Cold War. They didn't need to spend hundred of billions on defence against any superpower.

China's comfortable relationship with the US allowed their market reforms to give them access to many more of the world's resources, while the Soviet sphere relied on a far smaller resource base that was less productive than the West.

If detente had not ended, the USSR probably could have survived. Market reforms a la China would have prolonged the government, and the transition to a market economy would have been far less brutal than what Russia endured in the early 90s.

Is Deng basically the Tito of China?

>>2908144
Full communism is a society with a democratic economy and no state. This hasn't existed, and I'm not aware of any socialist movement that declared their society to be communist.

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>>2909412

Its a plutocracy. Xi prolly has less power than Trump. Its still authoritarian, but its run by committee otherwise Xi would be President for life which he will get replaced on the parties schedule instead.

>>2909464
Considering China didn't collapse when he died: no.

>>2908004
They did not have real communism past the 70s and they did not throw a massive part of their economy at military stuff.

>>2909464
I don't see how that fits at all. Tito was a revolutionary leader key to the founding of the state. His conception of socialism was that a market centered around democratic workplaces was a better transitional phase than the Soviet plan of state control.

Deng took control of an existing state structure and liberalized the country to promote its economic growth and international prominence.

Gorby drank the kool-aid and genuinely thought that with the power of free speech and human rights everyone would love socialism. When people disagreed very vocally, he refused to shoot them, because everyone has their opinions. Deng didn't give two shits whether or not you liked him, he was going to fix the economy. Deng realized that in a one-party state not everyone gets to have an opinion.

selfishly bumping because I've been liking all the responses so far.

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>>2908004
(((Larry Summers))) "helped" Boris "I need another bottle of vodka" Yeltsin "restructure" the economy so the various major ex-state industries fell into the hands of the (((oligarchs))) such as pic related.

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>>2908029
>Gradual economic reforms
have you read the little red book? its all part of the plan. let capitalists build up industry, then seize the means of production.

>>2910643
>According to Forbes 2016 billionaire list, Abramovich's net worth was US$7.6 billion,[1] making him the 13th richest person in Russia, and the 151st richest person in the world.[1] The same year, The Sunday Times estimated his net worth at ₤6.40 billion.[2]

>His family is Jewish. Abramovich's family is from Tauragė, Lithuania, Lithuanian spelling of the family name being Abramavičius (pronounced Ab-ra-ma-vee-choos). His father Arkady (Aron) Abramovich (1937–1970), was a state office manager, while his grandfather Nahim (Nahman) Abramovich (1887–1942), was a businessman.[65][66] Abramovich's mother is Irina Michalenko, his maternal grandfather was Vassili Michalenko and his maternal grandmother was Faina Grutman.[67] Abramovich is a chairman of the Federation of Jewish Communities of Russia (which is allied with Putin's administration), and donates money to the Chabad movement.[68] Abramovich has been married three times.

>In 1995, Abramovich and Boris Berezovsky, an associate of President Boris Yeltsin, acquired the controlling interest in the large oil company Sibneft. The deal was within the controversial loans-for-shares program and each partner paid US$100 million for half of the company, above the stake's stock market value of US$150 million at the time, and rapidly turned it up into billions. The fast-rising value of the company led many observers, in hindsight, to suggest that the real cost of the company should have been in the billions of dollars.[13] Abramovich later admitted in court that he paid huge bribes (in billions) to government officials and obtained protection from gangsters to acquire these and other assets (including aluminium assets during the aluminium wars).[14]

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>>2908763
what is Maoism then

>>2908004
It went into economic modernization before political.

>>2910682
it'll never liberalize desu

>>2910665
China doesn't follow Maoism.

>>2910665
State control of economy with emphasis on mass ideological mobilization and development of the peasantry.

>>2910697
Any elaboration on this?

>successful

>>2909407
Do you think North Korea is a demokratic republic?

>>2909412
China is effectively an oligarchic bureaucracy, just like Cuba and North Korea are effectively monarchic regimes.

They are all technically "socialists", although China is the one who moved away from orthodox marxist theory the furthest and that's probably why it adapted itself better to the modern world economy.

>>2908004
Paper tiger USA money laundering industry

>>2909393
the party is the dictator

Nixon

>>2910643
the oligarchs are a meme desu. they were only a manifestation of a deeper economic phenomenon. read an actual book on 1990s russia and the reality is much different.

>>2913217
How so?

>>2913217
You can't just post something like that without explaining it.

>>2913217

This. There are no rich Russians really, the oligarchs are just a meme.

>>2909467
Please tell us more about "real" communism

>>2908034
4 modernisations

>>2913292
Communism isn't "the actions of communist governments". Communism is a hypothetical future society with a completely different mode of production.

>>2910657
I feel like /pol/'s obsession with Jews, while initially tongue-in-cheek has developed into full blown antisemitism

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>>2908004
It stopped being communist.

>>2913898
It's a lot easier to tell people that the economy is in the shitter because they're being oppressed by a phantom social class than letting them know they're being outproduced by children making $1.80 an hour and working 20-hour workdays.

>>2910643
>Larry Summers
Not him, the other one.

>>2913898
So are you saying it's not true communism?

>>2908299
>implying things get better just because your clock moved a couple times

Mao was the impetus for the great change in China that made them the superpower they are today. Maybe someone could have done it better, but he certainly did more for China than almost anyone else.

>>2916573
yes exactly

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>>2910656
So let the capitalists take your means of production so you can retake them back? That's brilliant.

>>2908134
They got the "with" and "Chinese" parts correct at least.

>>2908207
Well yeah. They were getting invaded, enslaved and exterminated by the Japanese.

>>2908029
Stop /threading yourself.

>>2909467
Catalonia was considered a communist society by the rebels.

>>2917192
Source?