Old Testament

>>2889203
Not since 600 BC, no.

>>2889203

Karaites.

>>2889249
Good call, but they don't really believe it either or they would become Christians.

>>2889255

Why would they follow a failed Messiah?

>>2889203

The closest thing is Judaism

They belive in the tanakh which, according to my Jewish friend, is 7 books of the Old Testament. He seems a bit "casual" though, so I'm not sure if it's 7 books of the Old Testament or the entire Old Testament.

>>2889294

The Torah is just the books of Moses, the Tanakha includes the Torah, the books of the Prophets, and the later Writings. The order is slightly different but they're the same books as the Christian OT.

>>2889203
>Jews have their Talmud
That's like saying that Christians don't follow the NT, they follow the Ecumenical Councils.

>>2889342
I'm pretty sure there are one or two books included in some Christian Old Testaments that aren't in the Hebrew Tanakh.

>>2889525
>I'm pretty sure there are one or two books included in some Christian Old Testaments that aren't in the Hebrew Tanakh.

Name them.

>>2889526
Tobit and Judith are included in Catholic and Orthodox OT's, but AFAIK, not the Jewish Tanakh nor the Protestant bibles. Maybe there are others, but I'm working from memory here.

>>2889203
Samaritans?

>>2889290

I don't know, ask the followers of bar Kochba, or any of a dozen other failed messiahs.

If you think Yeshoshua failed, you don't see the empty grave very clearly, or know what the problem was, or are familiar with Jeremiah 31.

>>2889525
That would be accurate for Catholics, who do not follow the bible at all, but their own councils and traditions. Their own catechisms and papal bulls and whatnot.

>>2889532
Christian. Not catholic, not orthodox, Christian. Learn the difference, it might save your life.

>>2889631
Samaritans only follow the Torah, which is just the first five books of the old testament

>>2889532

Judith and Tobit are late works of "wisdom literature", not authentic prophetic works. Even most Christians consider it apocryphal. Books like them are included in the Talmud. But fair enough, there are differences, although it seems that the Christians accept as prophetic works that the Jews know are not.

>>2889642

The Messiah was to reunite Israel and Judah under a fundamentalist Jewish government and expel the gentiles, Jesus didn't do any of this, therefore he is a failed Messiah. It is beyond cretinous for Christians to claim he "fulfilled the prophecies" and at the same time claim "Oh, not THOSE prophecies (the ones relating to the Messiah), these other ones that DON'T refer to the Messiah!"

>>2889761
>Books like them are included in the Talmud
no

>>2889773

So what you're saying is, you don't have a single clue what you're talking about?

Opinion disregarded.

>>2889761
>Judith and Tobit are late works of "wisdom literature", not authentic prophetic works
Everything in Ketuvim is a later addition and not from a prophet.

>Even most Christians consider it apocryphal
I'm pretty sure Catholics and Orthodox between them count as "most Christians" although I haven't done the demographic math.

> Books like them are included in the Talmud.
No, they aren't. The Talmud is a series of oral teachings by rabbis, and aren't scripture at all.


>>2889779
He's right, and you have no idea what you're talking about.

>>2889761
>the Jews know are not.

The Jews can kid themselves all they want; Daniel is a major prophet.

>>2889772
Yehoshua has not done any of those things......yet.

He's still alive, still YHWH, and will still do everything He said He will do.

Murder Messiah
Reject Kingdom
Blame murdered messiah for not bringing in rejected kingdom.

Every time.

And Satan is setting you up to worship his man, the Antichrist, as your messiah. Enjoy what hell that brings.

>>2889772
>>2889830
>hurr durr but we wouldn't have been able to murder him if he was truly the Messiah!

Every. Time.

And yet, here we are...2000 years later and stiiiiiiiiiiiiiiill talkin' about Him.

Really made me think.

>>2889866
You might want to check up on the figure of Elijah. Of course, that would involve you actually reading the Bible instead of shitposting on a Siamese booger irrigation forum, so I doubt it would happen.

>>2889203
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritans

Samaritanism. They don't adhere to the Talmud, the Talmud actually kind of trashes them and says they are frauds brought in with the Assyrians. It's not true, it was just petty arguments because Samaritans and Jews disagree on where the Temple is supposed to be and Jews saw it as an attempted subversion. They have a way cooler looking version of Hebrew too.

>>2889866
Nobody murdered Jesus.

He came to die, had the power to lay down his life, and pick it back up again. And did.

>>2890127
The Samaritan Torah is also different in a couple ways. Same stories, but changed minor details, such as Mount Gerizim being the holy of holies

>>2890127
Almost. The Jews hated the mixed breed Samaritans and would not allow them to enter the temple.

Thus frustrated, the Samaritans built their own temple, and practiced Judaism as best they could on their own mountain.

John 4
The woman said to Him, “Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you Jews say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship.”

Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

the Jews went into captivity in Babylon, not the Samaritans. So when the captive Jews returned 70 years later, there was a struggle as to who the "real" jews were.

Judaism went from being patrilineal prior to the Babylonian captivity to being matrilineal afterwards, primarily due to this argument with the Samaritans.

>>2890144
Seems like a bunch of schizophrenic babble.

>>2890153
To the perverted, all things are perverse.

>>2889203
The Talmud is just a compilation of people commentating and arguing about the Tanakh (OT), it's like saying Christians take Augustine and Aquinas as scripture

File: doggointerdasted.jpg (27KB, 256x256px) Image search: [Google]

27KB, 256x256px

>>2890167

@2889651

Not even worth the (you)

>>2889642
>ask the followers of bar Kochba

To be fair, the Messiah was supposed to be a war lord. They would have declared him Messiah if he had won. This is why Cyrus the Great, who isn't even Hebrew was considered a Messiah.

The reason Jesus pissed off Jews was because they hated Rome and he was on some "render unto caesars what is caesars" shit while they hoped the Messiah was gonna BTFO the Romans

>>2890144
>The Jews hated the mixed breed Samaritans

They weren't mix breed though. Plus King David descended from a Moabite, they were hypocrites for caring if then. The whole mix breed thing was made up way later, there used to be a million Samaritans. The truth is they were both Israelites who split apart based off petty different beliefs. They fought over these petty beefs and I think Jews forced a lot of them to convert to Judaism during the Hasmonean dynasty.