Was he the best crusader there ever was?

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damn no crusaderboos here at all?

>>2880517

It depends on how you define a good crusader. He seems to be the archetype of the ambitious treacherous Norman, just like his father. He was brave and cunning, but otherwise not much of a crusader, in the idealistic sense.

>>2880924
i mean in terms of sheer military effectiveness and land conquering,
who would you consider candidate?

>>2881027
>sheer military effectiveness and land conquering
You realize Bohemund launched an invasion of the Byzantine Empire right after the First Crusade - even using that event to drum up support in Italy for his personal adventure - only to lose badly, get captured, and have to be ransomed back with tribute and an oath of fealty?

Emperor frederick II for setting out on a crusade while excommunicated twice, pissing of the pope and being the sole force behind making the crusade the most successful crusade since the first.

>>2881061
I didn't know that honestly, but this is the fate of most good crusaders it's like they can do awesome for awhile and then make one mistake and its all gone, he did a good job taking antioch, he was definitely greedy to want it all for himself but if alexius just let him have it things wouldnt have wound up so badly.
let me ask again, who would you consider high/honorable tier?

>>2881075
what is excommunication exactly?
Were different popes using it more liberally than others?
Was it ever helpful/useful?

>>2880585

Lame

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>>2880517
>not Godfrey

>>2881108
>if alexius just let him have it
What, his throne?

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>>2881140
I like Godfrey as much as the next guy but what about his is "effective soldier tier"
>inb4 giving up title to jesus
what do you guys think of adhemar the friendly ghost? Was it just a meme?

>>2881144
no you dip antioch after he captured it, did alexius capture antioch or did Bohemond?
>now
im just asking
is bohemond absolutely 100 percent in the wrong for wanting it? he captured it, and with lifestyle being so fast and risky there at that time even if alexius really wanted it for himself, couldn't he just figure it would be better to fight for it another day?

>>2881170
Don't insult people if you have no idea what you're talking about. Alexius wasn't even there when Antioch fell, that entire dispute was internal to the Crusader camp.

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>>2881194
"He gathered a Norman army, perhaps one of the finest in the crusading host,[according to whom?] at the head of which he crossed the Adriatic Sea and penetrated to Constantinople along the route he had tried to follow in 1082–1084. He was careful to observe a "correct" attitude towards Alexius and, when he arrived at Constantinople in April 1097, did homage to the Emperor. He may have negotiated with Alexius about a principality at Antioch; if he did so, he had little encouragement. From Constantinople to Antioch, Bohemond was the real leader of the First Crusade. It says much for his leadership that the First Crusade succeeded in crossing Asia Minor, in which the Crusades of 1101, 1147 and the 1189 all failed."

"Alexius I was incensed that Bohemond had broken his sacred oath made in Constantinople and kept Antioch for himself. "

i dont get it, dip is just a meme insult yet you insult me with that question.
im really trying not to insult any person im just trying to discuss and learn here
if im wrong anywhere can you explain to me where i'm wrong? it says alexius got buttmad right there, and Bohemond when meeting alexius in Constantinople before crusades was a two faced douche telling alex he would give him any land only to say "fuck that guy" once he was in another room that part i don't agree with

>>2881243
the crossing of 1189 failed because a guy fell of his horse

>>2881243
I just said Alexius wasn't there when Antioch fell. That he was mad from hundreds of miles away is inconsequential. The argument that broke out among the Crusaders after Antioch was who should keep the city - Raymond or Bohemund, and Alexius was mostly tangential to that debate as both sides used his name to justify their claim. Raymond claimed they should keep their oaths (and thus everyone should have a share of the city as part of the Byzantine Army) while Bohemund claimed it should be his because Alexius broke his word (thus to the victor belongs the spoils).

It wasn't about Alexius 'just letting him have it.' Alexius had no issue letting people have things, which is why Baldwin got to be dux of Edessa, and it's why Antioch had no bearing on why Bohemund invaded the Balkans later to conquer Constantinople. It's what he always wanted to do in the first place.

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>>2880517
I-i made a bohemond thread the other day, well one about the hauteville dynasty. Where the fuck were you?

>>2867288

>>2881275
See thank you v. much for explaining this all to me, I just didn't know.
Do you really think Bohemond just wanted Constantinople from the start?

>>2881415
ok ill be xboxposting so i cant post shitty memes or (you) or anything ill be on again in like 15 20 min

>>2881415 did everybody leave i still wanted to discuss adhemar and all the stories surrounding him

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the crusaders from spain (Asturias, Castille...)
specially Don Pelayo

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>>2880517
Stand aside, peasant

>>2881437
Considering how before he even joined the First Crusade he and his family were already invading the Byzantine Empire, pretty much yeah.

>>2881767
what did don do? could u shoot a couple meme arrows my way?

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>>2881789
>First monarch of the kingdom of Asturies
>probably a visigoth
>stops muslim expansion in north spain
>kickstarts the reconquista from the "Picos de Europa" mountains in Asturias, carrying out skirmishes until his kingdom solidifies and he can actually start his territorial expansion

2881788

FRIENDSHIP ENDED WITH BOHEMOND I


FRIENDSHIP STARTED WITH ADHEMAR OF LEPUY

>>2881802
its crazy to think abt the amount of people he prolly kept safe and launching such a resistance just sounds nervewrecking

>>2881788
>>2881811

i keep fucking up my (you)s