Why is the Holy Roman Empire so overlooked by mainstream society?

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Because its conplicated. Even its name confuses people with no prior knowledge.

>>2876954
This, duchies, city states, proto republics, kingdoms, and one emperor. It is simply to complicated for most people.

>>2876940
Name one thing it accomplished that would be important enough for normies to care about

>>2877071
Being cucked by Napoleon.

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>>2877004
That is before you even get into internal borders.

Because it was neither holy, nor Roman nor an empire

>>2877071
The Reformation, the printing press, keep the Hungarians at bay, having the most interesting social structures of all Europe at the time, making it the #1 spot for social change and technical invention.

HRE was the powerhouse of western Europe for 500 years, and even in its decline was formative for the western culture.
If you don't know at least the basics about the HRE, you simply don't know about Europe in the medieval and early modern period.

>>2876940
Because it's easier for people to think "LOL THE MIDDLE AGES? MORE LIKE THE ROLL IN MUD AND EAT POOP AGES HAHAHAHA FUCKING RELIGION'N SHIT MAN"

>>2877378
>keep the Hungarians at bay

what did hungary do wrong

>>2877387
Doing the steppe nigger thingy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lechfeld_(955)

>>2877142
>not an empire
>kms

i wanted to buy a flag and my parents said it was glorifying nazis and my dad thought i was talking about the roman empire

>>2876940
More importantly, why do these Germanic cocksuckers keep using the sable lion rampant on a field or.

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>>2877138
Thats before you even get into the full extent of the empire around the year 1000

>>2877411
So that they know where the Wittelsbach had their cocks in and where not.

>>2877399
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgarian–Hungarian_wars
What can we do to stop the eternal steppenigger?

>>2877399
>955
hungary wasn't a state until 1000

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>>2877411
red lion = Luxemburg
black lion = Wittelsbach
black eagle = Habsburg

>>2877425
So? No claimed that.

>>2876940
Anglo Centrism, everybody think people lived in a kingdom and where either serfs or knights.
Understanding early republics and city states on the other hand is hard, especially when most of your knowledge is from Disney movies.

>>2877479
so what were early republics like then

>>2877515
wicked gay

>>2876940
>why is x historical subject overlooked by mainstream society?
you can apply this to anything OP. what it comes down to is that mainstream society doesn't care about history besides using it to make a political or ideological point or to justify something

Its more accurate to call it "holy roman-germanic empire". thats actually the way its called in Spanish.

>>2876940
Probably because modern german nationalism is based on seeing it as an outdated entity.

>>2876940
in English speaking worlds we get less history works on it. Germans get more.
>>2877752
A lot of the elites in the EU have been quoted as saying they hope the EU brings back the Holy roman empire. It's always been a dream of the elites, to the annoyance of everyone else.

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Can anyone rec some good books about the HRE? Thanks lads.

Anything outside of anglo history is overlooked by Hollywood which is the main source of history of normies.That is why totally mediocre anglos like blackbeard are well known by everyone while people like Cortes are widely unknown or just a punching bag against the white evil.Hell even Scotland seems to be more important than the HRE if you look at Hollyjew movies

>>2877957
But the HRE gave its substates much more rights then the EU. Hell they were allowed to wage small wars against each other under codified law.

>>2876940
It hurts normies brains who have long been fed nation-state memes.

>Brooooo why isn't it, like, a unified nation broooooo they speak the same language brooooooo.

>>2878504
How do you explain the normie obession of Egypt and Cleopatra? Or even Samurai?

>>2878589
Hollywood

>>2876949
>>2876944
kekked hard

>>2878597
But you said that Hollywood only pay attention to Anglo history and the examples I cited aren't a part of it.

>>2878606
different guy.
it's prolly the kikes tho

>>2878606
Maybe he meant Anglo view of history.

>>2878589
>How do you explain the normie obession of Egypt and Cleopatra?
Strong independent womyn
> Or even Samurai?
US occupation of Japan brought tons of interest about Nip culture.
Overall normies learn history through Hollywood and when we talk about Europe it is just England.How many Robin Hood and King Arthur movies have Hollywood done in the last 20 years?

The common narrative in Western history is one of gradual centralization of states bringing modernity and progress. The Holy Roman Empire, being a descentralized state, goes against this narrative.

Most historians have been traditionally unsympathetic towards it for that reason. Not only liberal historians, who hated it for being so traditional and custom-based, but also conservative historians, specially German ones, who considered it "weak" and ineffective.

The HRE is now getting greater interest thanks to it being seen as a blueprint for the EU, though, but it will take time until this views reach mainstream.

>>2878379
Heart of Europe
A History of the Holy Roman Empire
Peter H. Wilson

>>2878538
>they speak the same language
>German
>Provencal French
>Bohemian
>Italian
>Polish

So what is the capital of the HRE then?

>>2879053
The capital of elected emperors holding (for most time it was Hasburg Austria, Vīne, but in times some other nobleman got it, the ''empires capital' was capital of noblmans main title)
p.s.
soory for my bad grammar, english isnt my native langue, and im too lazy to corect myself

>>2876949
Epic

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>>2877142
>>2878605
>>2879092

>>2876940
Why the fuck is it called SIRG (Sacro Imperio Romano Germánico) in spanish?

That means Holy Germanic Roman Empire? Is it just some hidden butthurt against the HRE to claim it's not the true Roman Empire?

I know it isn't but pls respond.

>>2879115
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>>2879115
>not the true Roman
Are you IQ 85 or did you simply not know that pretty much everyone, from Charlemagne onwards tried to paint his "empire" as successor to the Romans for reasons of the church?
>yes, it was just a fucking title, dumblords

>>2879124
This is better but the germanic part is true
>>2879126
>I know it isn't

Read before you reply. What you said it's Translatio Imperii, the ultimate wewuz of europeans and even turks.

>>2879135
>wewuz
So it is IQ 85 then.
They weren't larping as Romans, just stressing that they claim universal power over Christendom, just like the Roman church does.

>>2879139
>IQ 85
>larping
Why have the 4chan speak stick to you so much?
Can't you say "stupid" or "dumb"?

I bet you also say "lad" and "wife her" instead of "marry her".

>just stressing that they claim universal power over Christendom

Not just that but claim to be THE Roman Empire. The Roman Church doesn't claim to be the successor of the Roman Empire even if they use most of their traditions and symbols. Read about what Translatio Imperii means and stop reading wikipedia.

>>2879151
>Not just that but claim to be THE Roman Empire.
You are one stupid dumb cunt. The HRE never claimed to be Roman, thats just part of the title. The ROman catholic church on the other hand claimed to have unbroken succession back to Roman times.
Now go either find some sources or fuck off you dumb shit!

>>2879151
Charlemagne was the first new Roman emperor, as the successor of Constantine VI. He wasn't larping as Romulus or Augustus, he simply was the most powerful guy in the western hemisphere. The title and coronation ceremony by the pope in Rome was mostly to set him apart from the Byzantine Empire and {{{Empress}}} Irene.

>>2877598
Yeah, the German name shouldn't be relevant for this topic.

>>2876940
Because HRE included Belgium, the Netherlands, Italy, Switzerland, parts of modern Poland, parts of modern Russia, Croatia and Herzegovina. So you can't just say it was Germany because the emperor was king of the Germans and it's quite complicated compared to French and English history which is desu more important for the modern state, as history education is the teaching of how we got to the modern world

>>2879520
>a stable, prosperous, multi cultural, multi language, federal society that ruled Europe for the better part of a millennium is somewhat less important than England.
seriously?

>>2879520
Dude. A Reich encompasses more than a nation. Thus your rambling about other nationalities is useless. It was a mainly German entity. Also what anon above my post said.

>>2879520
How is Robin Hood more relevant than protestantism or the 30 years war? Are English this fucking deluded irl?

I want to learn HRE

where do I begin?

>>2879075
You did well.

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>>2879115
In German, it's even called:
Heiliges Römisches Reich Deutscher Nation
(Holy Roman Empire of German Nation)

>Holy
>Roman
>Empire
>of German
>Nation

>>2879777
only from the late 15th century onwards, so when they lost control over ITaly.

>>2878589
Ancient Egypt was insanely hyped up through the achievements of Anglo Egyptologists of the first half of the 20th century. You will barely find Egyptian themes in pop culture that do not reference the British colonial view of the country or important Anglo discoveries like the opening of Tutankhamun's tomb.
As for the Samurai, it's the same thing just with the Americans. They were the first to open Japan up and the last to fight a war against them, so the Japanese culture found its way in the American mainstream.

>>2881244
The HRE on the other hand is dead for over 2 centuries, it becomes only important if you deal with European history before Napoleon.

>>2876940
Even for people who have a good knowlege of history, the HRE is a confusing mess of an entity. That's why everyone hates it.

>>2881647
Once you get it is a meta state that serves as an umbrella for various entities it becomes easier.

>>2879053
It hadn't one. West-Francia was given the capital Paris after the treaty of Verdun, but Middle-Francia and East-Francia hadn't any capital offcially. However, the emperor was crowned in Frankfurt am Main, so that might be considered as capital.

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>>2879750
So this is not an empire then according to you?

>>2879053
Who is king, he is capital

>>2879653
>federal
Even Americans with their freedoms didn't care about the HRE
ENGLAND is more important to the modern world because of how much it did with inventions, with borders, with ideas, with philosophy, with science, with life

>>2879754
>Robin Hood
>not helpful for building the idea of the social contract
>Protestantism is exclusively Roman
>30 years was just about Rome and inside Rome
You are deluded kid

>>2879750
>using the term reich witheir referring to specific emperors
Aww lad

>>2883373
>>2883378
samefagging hard dear Anglo?

Normies confuse the HRE with the ancient roman empire. This is why they don't really have it on their radar.

>>2877004
I'm completely ignorant of the HRE, how did something so decentralized manage to hold together for so long? How were electors chosen? How independent were all those duchies, city states etc? I have so many questions, thinking about it makes my head hurt. Can anyone recommend a good book to start?

>>2884736
>how did something so decentralized manage to hold together for so long?
likely because it was decentralized. like you got a good legal tradition, some powerfull allies in case you need them and otherwise you are free to do your own thing.

>How were electors chosen?
Electors come up at the end of the medieval and wher ethe most powerfull nobles and clergy of the time.
>How independent were all those duchies, city states etc?
Quite a bit, the Swiss for example where full patched member of the HRE till 1648, despite having waged war with the Habsburg for centuries and conquering their lands. So having a war with your own emperor is still acceptable.
It is a bit like the EU, Poland and Hungary can give the EU the finger, but they are still in, And wile the Emperor has some power on regulations and foreign policy he is by no means in absolute power and local entities will always make their own politics.
Heart of Europe
A History of the Holy Roman Empire
Peter H. Wilson

>>2884736
Heart of Europe
A History of the Holy Roman Empire
Peter H. Wilson

Is a good reference, what period does interest you the most?

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>holy
>roman
>empire

>>2885077
>Prussian flag
>HRE

Are you this dumb you fucking frog dipshit jesus christ why and how are people this dumb

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>>2885086
>getting arsch offen over obvious b8
figures, go to bed Murat, Merkel needs you awake tomorrow

>>2885101
>Implying I'm German

What are you talking about

/his/ is pretty much the only pace online that won't shut the fuck up about HRE or Byzantium

both are obscure, because they both existed for ~1000 years and didn't really do much
I have met people from Europe who have never heard of either many times

I also met a German once who didn't know about Prussia

>>2879115
In Norwegian it's called "tysk-romerske rike" which directly translated means German/Teutonic-Roman Reich/Realm

>>2885196
>I also met a German once who didn't know about Prussia
refugees aren't german

>>2885196
>both are obscure

Maybe amongst your group of friends in America.

>I have met people from Europe who have never heard of either many times

Probably because you said got Rome and HRE confused

>I also met a German once who didn't know about Prussia

Probably because you pronounced it P-Rush-iya

>>2885237
I'm not an American, retard
but because you assume anyone not from your country to be American, I guess you're from the UK

>>2885273
>because you assume anyone not from your country to be American, I guess you're from the UK

Joke's on (you) I actually am an American : ^ )

>>2877386
Nobody believes or says that.

>>2885865
>Google "peasant" and you'll see what he means

>>2877080
>implying Normies know anything about Napoleon other than he tried taking over Europe and then losing in Russia.

I've met people who didn't even know who Stalin was.

They probably think Germany was a single country back then, with the same borders modern Germany has today.

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>>2876940
What was that you just said?

>>2879124
kek

>>2885879
I met a girl once who couldn't tell me who George Washington was. She was enlisted in the US military.

>>2878504
>waaah
>white people don't care about anything not white
Get gud, fag.

>>2885959
>Anglos are the only white people on earth

2/10 b8

>>2885865
Literally every normie thinks so. Plus 15th century armor being worn since 900 till 1600s

>>2885879
>implying normies know anything about Napoleon other than "Oooh he's that french manlet, haha!"

>>2876940
Is it anything special to be related to Charlemagne?

Because it wasn't holy, it wasn't Roman and it wasn't an empire...nowww to the thought bubble.

>>2877138
look at that autism

>>2887144
No. I'm related to him through 17 different ways as far as I know. However, I live in the middle of the core area of the Franks.

>>2876944
>>2876949
LOL

>>2876940
the holy roman empire was overlooked during its peak

>>2876944
wow this one makes you imagine the lines

>>2876944
>>2876949
>>2885919
This stupid fucking meme.
It's called the Holy Roman Empire because, it is Holy in the sense that it was appointed by the Pope and claim temporal headship over Christendom, it is Roman because it is the successor of the Western Empire and it is ruled over by a Roman Emperor, okay?

>>2876940
No one really pays attention to it outside Europe because it is too complicated. I mean, Jesus, most Americans can't even figure out how the states vs fed govt work and we're leagues more centralized than the HRE. Most normies will get extremely bogged down if you try to talk about individual principalities or electors going to war with one another. It has nothing to do with a "Jewish conspiracy" or "Hollywood" outside of the fact that Hollywood knows it won't make any money off of movies that they feel are too complicated for the masses. Don't go looking for conspiracies when they're more obvious explanations.

>>2888775
Hey John Green

>>2878624
>blueprint for the EU

wtf, I hate the holy roman empire now.

>>2888980
>bloated, Autistic, German
checks out

>>2879053
There were several important cities, like other anons said, Wien and Frankfurt, but one time it was also Prag. Most Emeperors were crowned in Aachen, and many had a residence there. Most of them never stayed in one town for a longer time and were always on the move.

>>2888985
>HRE was technically started by Charlemagne but got later taken over by germans
>EU was supposed to be the French tool for dominating Europe but got later taken over by germans

>HRE was supposed to be the central monarchy to which all other catholic monarchies were subsidiaries
>EU is the bureaucracy to which all other european bureaucracies are subsidiaries

>>2889007
Add Worms and Bamberg to the list.

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>>2876944
Voltaire is always right

>>2889026
yes but was Australia a participant in the HREvision music competition

>>2889983
Is that an actual quote from Voltaire? I don't know too much about the guy other than he was a free thinker who wrote a load of shit.

I am interested in reading a bit more about individuals who weren't kings or princes.

Him and Nietzsche seem interesting.

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>>2890047
It is indeed. People normally relegate antisemitism in their minds to the uneducated peasants but are unaware it has been existent in a variety of men from great intellectuals to children's book authors.

>>2889983
But then, he was French, which isn't bad per se, just annoying to most people. Also, turned out his modern enlightened absolutist state turns out to be shit compared to the freedom the HRE gave you.

You guys got to realize something very important about the world that most people have forgotten. The meaning behind the term 'empire'. Now-a-days, people call lots of different things empires, even japan today has an emperor (although that's not actually his title in Japanese, its just something the west calls him). To the medieval world and to some point after that (I don't know about Voltaire time period).

Empire, in the medieval post-Rome christian world at least, always refereed to the Roman empire only, and the emperor was the highest temporal power on earth that you can have. You were not just the ruler of Rome, you were the rightful mortal secular ruler of the entire goddamn universe. I imagine the Chinese emperor was called an emperor by the west because in the Chinese worldview, their king was lord of all under heaven (weather barbarians accepted it or not), like how the christian Roman emperors were.

So with the idea of Kings and the Clergy being Gods representatives on earth, the pope was the ultimate clergyman on earth and the roman emperor was the King of Earth. And thus the 'Holy Roman Empire' held a huge amount of sway, at least for a while.

>>2890424
This is a perfectly correct answer, but you are going against one of the strongest memes of /his/ and you got no doubles.

>>2876940
Because many mainstream historians hate Christianity, and consensus decides what is important

>>2890953
You got to go back to /pol/

>>2876944
lol

It's really interesting. Here in Germany the third Reich is a common term used for NaziGermany but virtually noone knows why it's called the third

>>2892783
1st Reich == 1000 year Reich
2nd Reich == was ok, should have lasted longer.
3rd Reich == Lol, we LARPing now

>>2892783
>>2892787
the 2nd and 3rd Reich are huge memes and show just how pathetic Germans are. Napoleon at least waited until he made half of Europe his bitch before proclaimed the French Empire.

>>2893181
>Napoleon at least waited until he made half of Europe his bitch before proclaimed the French Empire.
So did the Germans pretty much. They won against Denmark, Austria and France before they proclaimed the 2nd Reich.

>>2879075
>Vine
What? Wien or Vienna man

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>>2893181
Well, the Germans are only every now and then in Versailles, and Versailles if fucking beautiful, so they fought it was a good idea to the Empire thing right there and then.
It is understandable, they had a great time with their buddies in the field, good food, good wine, lots of sex with french cuties, so yeah, they got a bit euphoric.

>>2892783
that's because they don't teach you guys any history about your own nation.

you guys should really do something about that. cultural genocide. I think the lack of history being taught is much more disastrous than the immigration problem everyone's so focused on.

>>2893805
Did you note how the picture puts the picture within the best of Germanic traditions, the princes of Germany hailing the Emperor and the battle guidons waving over him. And Bismarck right in the Center.
Best LARP ever!

>>2877142
>>2887172

Also, the HRE was considered (literally) barbarian by the Roman Empire (Byzantines).

>>2894931
Interesting shitpost

The Byzantine empire is less known and basically forgotten in the west. Was it because it was the inheritor of the Roman Empire in name only? After a king or two, the empire didn't do anything very notable, did it?

>>2893181
3rd Reich was a shit show, but it was a Reich alright.

>>2894931
A Roman Empire controled by Greeks isn't Roman anymore.

>>2895042
It is forgotten because the West mostly only learns or knows the France and England Medieval world. (At least in North America and popular culture)
Any media based on the Medieval you will never hear or see anything resembling the HRE or East Rome unless you are reading something actually aimed at history autists.
>>2895589
But a Rome ruled by Iberian's,Barbarian's or Idol Worshiping Christians is?

>>2895970
>France and England
The two pariah of the medieval world.

>>2897338

Explain.

>>2884736
A good explanation of the HRE I once read framed it as a sort of court system for its subject states. The Emperor's job was to solve conflicts and also to directly protect some of the statelets that otherwise would be left completely vulnerable to larger states like Prussia, Bavaria, Saxony, etc.

It really started to break down over time, though, and the last emperor was a real fag who cared more about being Austrian King than Holy Roman Emperor.

>>2885196
It's sad how shittily we teach history.

>>2888939
It is a gay meme, but then so is most of anything people remember from Voltaire