'Blood Lies' by Grover Furr

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>>2859732
Tankie bullshit

>>2859732

Stalin was gud boi. Dindu nuffin.

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>>2859735
t. Kulak Kulakovich

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>>2859749
t. Middle class white American college kid who has never stepped in eastern europe

>>2859735
>>2859741
But what are some examples of poor attempts at debunking by the author?

>>2859749
Hmm, this sounds dubious.

>>2859779
>Borsht
>Butchered the name of your national dish like that
Shame

I think the most important and relevant part of Grover's book is what if he turned into an anaconda?

>>2859735
Good meme. I know there's also one for Germany and Japan. The terrible trio of WWII.

>>2859779
>Middle class white American college kid
Why americans use this as an insult?
Also not the guy you responded too but I live in europe and travel a lot to est europe and russia a lot of people there miss communism (there are statistic online too) and it's kind of sad listen to their stories when communism fell and everyone lose everything and how their countries became popular for sexual turism. My father told me stories of how you could go to ex communist contries and fuck girls just by giving them jeans. Say what you want about communism and sure communist made errors in history but no communist ever wished this for his country. There was a sense of community, of fighting for a greater cause, every child wanted to be a cosmonaut, there was respect for the fellow men more than any other society. Then capitalism came and it wasn't about being a cosmonaut, but opening a coffe and making money. Yeah there are horror stories from that period but because we took the horror stories off shore doesn't mean they don't exist anymore

What do you call yourself if you believe that Stalin killed all or most of the people claimed, but also that it was not in any sense wrong?

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>>2860242
Of course they miss communism in Russia. If you're not from that region you need to read this book to understand their mentality. Russia has been poor for a long long time. The communist state existed for They know they're poor so they want to be feared which they think is equal to respect. Strong leaders provide just that and many feel nostalgia for old communist times and their leaders even though they were murdering their own people. Additionaly there's the whole myth of the Great Patriotic War which is all that. A myth. But of course when you have to choose between two monsters the one that speaks your language is the prefered option. Being so institutionalized that you have mausoleums dedicated to people who were killing you is inconceivable to anyone who doesn't understand it.

>>2860258
Sociopathic tankie?

>>2860153
What did he mean by this?

>>2859779
I'm not a commie, but I always find this line of insult kinda strange. Because if someone from eastern Europe said they lament the downfall of communism (not unheard of among East Germans for instance) you'd use his background as an insult to invalidate his beliefs in the exact opposite fashion.

>>2860279
>claims they just want to be feared again

Really dude? Most of that post was lamenting the fact they lost their way of life and wound up basically being the playground of the wealthy following the collapse of communism.

>>2860376
It's apparently called snek-posting.

>>2840685

>>2860457
Yeah Yeltsin was America's bitch. Putin is more of an autocratic master which is what they're accustomed to.

>>2860242
>Why americans use this as an insult?
Because there is an extremely powerful campaign of subversion being waged against the intellectual class by wealthy plutocrats who stand to profit handsomely from a more ignorant population, so you get right-wingers in America who are completely disdainful of the idea of education and furthering yourself and think that man's sole duty is submission to some kind of hierarchy, be it prison, police, military, or corporate

>>2860533
This nigga knows

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>>2860533

>>2860533
W O K E as fuck

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>>2860279
oh fuck off with the "killing their own people" shit. maybe they deserved it

keep drinking the bourgie cold war propaganda kool-aid

It's a moot point. I've never read the book so I don't care whether or not the claims in it were false.

>>2860279
>listen to my crude pop-psychology generalization about the psychological make up of tens of millions of people. trust me dude lol

>>2861808
>maybe they deserved it

I seriously hope you don't really think that comrade. The only victims of communism who deserved death were communist criminals themselves like Beria or Yagoda.

>>2860533
this

>>2861834
So if you hate the murderers of your people....they win?

>>2860533
>>2860543
>>2860566
>>2860634
>>2861838
>>>/leftypol/

>>2860533
This

>>2860242
They don't miss communism, they miss muh nukes muh geopolitic powah.

> horror stories
Oh, fuck you. Sometimes I wish you spoiled fags get real communism on the West. Cambodia style would be a good lesson.

>>2860467
Ah, I see, thanks. Bad meme imo desu.

>>2860533
>>2860566
>>2860634
>>2863553
Stop samefaging

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>>2860533

Leftists aren't the ones defending Stalin these days.

It's your beloved stroonk russian nationalists

>>2860279
(((nobel prize)))

>>2860258
>all or most of the people claimed
claimed by whom? the i've seen people argue for everything between 20 to 120 million. you don't have to be a genius to understand that it's basically a smear campaign to discredit communism as a viable alternative to capitalism.
also the same people who accuse stalin of starving people to death and shit never speak up about how the massive wealth gap between the 1st and 3rd world cause millions of death every year.
it's
all
shit

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>>2860533

>>2860533
This

>>2861837
sounds like there is a "u" in "gulag" there comrade

>>2863541
not an argument

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>>2860176
Here's the Jap one. I don't have the German.

>>2860533
Not everything is a conspiracy you paranoid fuck. A lot of right wingers are disdainful of academia because humanities classes tend to be commie propaganda machines. I did STEM and history classes so I didn't have to listen to it too much, but I had a friend in Literature who completely fell for the commie professor meme.

>>2863969
you see. i don't believe you. i don't believe you're lying or anything i just don't think you could differentiate between communism and GOMMUNISM.
you have fucking fox news calling bernie sanders a commie and people repeating it like dogs on command.

>>2864018
>i don't believe you
Don't believe what, my entire post? At least give a good argument as to why you don't. Also, I've read Engels and Marx so I think I have a pretty good grasp of what communism is. Not everyone is as susceptible to having their ideals changed by a book as I imagine you are.

>>2864041
>humanities classes tend to be commie propaganda machines
this. i think it's liberal drivel without an ounce of class consciousness and maybe even propaganda in a way but i don't believe it's communism.

>>2864057
I'm not sure what your personal experiences in university were, but I had a few professors who explicitly endorsed communism. They don't actually hide it most of the time.

>>2864094
>your personal experiences in university were
not really relevant as im not a burger
>explicitly endorsed communism
really? what did they say?

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>>2859749

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>>2864094

>go into class the day after Chavez dies
>teacher casually mentions it
>spends the entire fucking class going full dindu mode on Chavez and sucking his dead dick
>mfw it was a fucking french class elective.

>>2863969
>Not everything is a conspiracy you paranoid fuck.
Jesus, for the love of God, please tell the right-wingers

>I had a friend in Literature who completely fell for the commie professor meme.
And I was taught British Literature by a retired U.S. Army Colonel who was decorated for valor in combat.

>>2863949
It wasn't supposed to be one.

>>2863553
>>2863931
>>2863932
Oh, yeah, You too should go to /leftypol/ imo.

I'd like to hear the input of people who have read the book.

>>2860258
Imbecile

>>2863587
You are the same gusano from the other thread

Since when did /his/ started accepting communist revisionism?

>>2868103
Never.

>>2868103
It was never forbidden as far as I know, and in my opinion that's not bad. Revisionism should be allowed because if it's faulty it will reveal itself thus and there won't be a reason for someone to go "oh, if they don't let you investigate history, that means the official version is false".
So if you've read the book and can point some specific lies, please do so.

Is Grover Furr the one who argued that Stalin didn't really invade Poland because it ceased to exist when Germany captured Warsaw?

>>2868220
If he said that, he's brainwashed. What kind of stupid logic is that?

>>2868103
Btw, there's obviously no written rule saying that commie revisionism is not allowed so I might have sounded like a sarcastic commie. Therefore I'll clarify that I meant that to my knowledge, there was never an effort to delete commie revisionist posts.
I'm not a commie, I just want to read some debunked claims in case I argue with a tankie and he references that book.

>>2861808
Man you're brainwashed.

Dumb commie thread sage

>>2860533
only the leftist part of the intellectual class tho

>>2860242
Because there's a (not entirely untrue) stereotype of white hipsters in college being leftist contrarians who think they have everything figured out and that communism is the way forward.
-t. White middle class American college kid posting from the dining hall

>>2859732
Timothy Snyder is the textbook American cuckold. He also shills and signals against Putin and Russia so hard he basically became a political activist.

>>2870957
But what it ignores are all the blue-collar morons calling in to talk radio shows who also think that they have the world figured out, which they display by coming up with clever puns for the first lady's name and bragging about how far they can punt a liberal, who blindly support their boss's agenda because loyalty is more important to them than independent thought.

The difference is that the left doesn't have this entire cottage industry of plutocrat-funded grifters promoting itself and systematically calling out the worst excesses of the other's behavior.

t. guy in the workforce who has met some dumb ass motherfuckers who have no business running their mouth about politics

>>2870810
By making this thread, I'm inviting people to point out what's wrong with the book, you retard.

>>2871027
That's what redneck/tradie stereotypes are for
-t. I worked manual labor and met a bunch of stereotypical rednecks/tradesmen before I went to college

>>2871373
True, but I knew some which were friggin smart as hell, totally competent at their job, and defied the stereotype of a southerner being a slack-jawed moron who taps his sister in his double-wide trailer.

But those were the kind whose opinions went ignored because they weren't flashy enough and didn't devote enough time to shameless self-promotion and hero-worship.

>>2860533
Anti-intellectualism is as legitimate as anti-clericalism was in the XIXth century.

It's not about being "disdainful" of education and intelligence. It's about rejecting the political and cultural power of the intelligentsia as a caste.

>>2871753
Tee bee aytch, academia is a prime example of how some level of hierarchy is necessary for society to function.

>hey, how come your opinion about vaccines gets so much more air time in the (((mainstream media))) than mine
>because I spent more than a decade getting my PHD

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>>2871753
>It's about rejecting the political and cultural power of the intelligentsia as a caste.
No, it's an alliance of the nobility with the proletariat through relentless stoking of anti-urban and anti-immigration sensibilities (in other words, by appealing to the lowest common denominators) to unite against the professional and intellectual classes.

It's the same thing that happened in the late Roman Republic, and lead to the break down of the democratic process as more and more conservatives came to dominate the public government and make reform effectively impossible.

>>2871753
I'd give your position some merit if anti intellectualism only targeted social sciences.

>>2871770
If there is a "nobility" in the Western world, then it's the great fortunes that fund the NGOs and foundations that are one of the basis of the political power of the intelligentsia.

>>2871791
>he thinks foundations or NGOs have political power compared to media conglomerates or lobbyists

>>2871798
You consider yourself smart, but your view on politics is binary and manichaeistic.

NGOs and foundations compete for political power between themselves and with media conglomerates, lobbyists and other powers.

>>2871807
>your view on politics is binary and manichaeistic

I consider this to be a good thing.

A person needs to have a clear conception of good and evil to function. Moral relativism and contrarianism are just attention whoring cancer.

>>2859732
Come and debate us in a General History Server :

https://discord.gg/NYdGns

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>>2871820
top-tier response, m8

>>2871820
((nuance))

>>2871895
>my vision is blurry but at least I can see the subtle nuance and "shades of grey"