Post civilizations interacting with eactother.

>>2846014
ok now dis a good thread

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>>2846014

>>2846050
>g*rman philosophers
Garbage tier.

>>2846050
This isn't Civilizations interacting with each other though. It's just some edgy philosopher talking shit on Religion.

>>2846014
I see this posted a lot (no wonder with this board being majority white).
But did European philosophers speak well of their interactions with the more civilized Arabic/Islamic world back then?

Herodotus describing the customs of Persians:

"They hold it unlawful to talk of anything which it is unlawful to do. The most disgraceful thing in the world, they think, is to tell a lie; the next worst, to owe a debt: because, among other reasons, the debtor is obliged to tell lies. If a Persian has the leprosy he is not allowed to enter into a city, or to have any dealings with the other Persians; he must, they say, have sinned against the sun. Foreigners attacked by this disorder, are forced to leave the country: even white pigeons are often driven away, as guilty of the same offense"

>>2846050
>can quote anything from history
>mentions something about muslims
>by Nietzsche
>"i-i'm a man mommy"
back to your containment board lad

>>2846014
Finally, a thread that isn't pol garbage.

>>2846129
Europeans have a tendency to be amazed at every great city they find and call it the best in the world. I don't blame them, but it'd be like me going going to Tokyo and being like "WHOA THIS IS THE BEST PLACE IN THE WORLD."

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>Soochow is a very great and noble city. The people are subjects of the Great Khan, and have paper money. They possess silk in great quantities, from which they make gold brocade and other stuffs, and they live by their manufactures and trade.

>The city is very great, as large as 60 square miles. It contains merchants of great wealth and an incalculable number of people. Indeed, if the men of this city and of the rest of the country had the spirit of soldiers they would conquer the world; but they are not soldiers at all, only accomplished traders and most skilled craftsmen. There are also in this city many great philosophers and others who do not appear to work.

>When you have left the city of Soochow and have traveled for four days through a splendid country, passing a number of towns and villages, you arrive at the most noble city of Kinsay, which is in our language "City of Heaven." I will enter into particulars about its magnificence since the city is beyond dispute the finest and noblest in the world.

>Inside the city there is a lake of some 30 miles: and all round it are beautiful palaces and mansions, of the richest and most exquisite structure that you can imagine, belonging to the nobles of the city.

>Both men and women are fair and comely (attractive).

>And for the most part clothe themselves in silk, so vast is the supply of that material, both from the whole district of Kinsay and from the imports by traders from other provinces.

Really makes you think...

>>2846050
Why did Nietzsche despise Christianity so much?

>>2846146

He met and spoke with Christians.

>>2846050
Did some Christian priest destroy Nietzsche's boypucci when he was a kid?

>>2846139
I think anybody would have been amazed.

For one, any Chinese cities population was far greater than any European city at the time.
And second, the Europe that Marco Polo knew was a collection of small nations and city-states constantly having petty squabbles with one another.

Nearly all states were involved in wars with one another. With the Holy Roman Empire having a slight boost, but they were were also locked in constant competition for power. In Asia Minor, the power of the Byzantine empire was in decline, and the power of the Turkish Ottoman Empire was increasing. In addition, Europe was still involved in its own Holy War against the "infidels" to retake their land i.e the Crusades.

The Chinese Sung dynasty, was the most splendid civilization of its time, outshining even Persia and the Ottoman Empire, and certainly out-distancing poorer, divided Europe. Kubilai Khan may have been a conqueror but he regarded himself as a civilized, ""elegant"" gentleman.

>French go to Canada
>Their settlements are shit
>The natives hate them
>The only natives that ally with them hate them too
>In it for the sweet benefits
>French women get raped by natives regularly
>Captives are common among their indian "allies"
>Indians rarely go to war with each other, so they are cucked out of their allies

French colonization of north america is truely JUST

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>>2846014
Hernan Cortes describing Tenochtitlan to King Charles V:

>This great city of Temixtitlan [Mexico] is situated in this salt lake, and from the main land to the denser parts of it, by whichever route one chooses to enter, the distance is two leagues. There are four avenues or entrances to the city, all of which are formed by artificial causeways, two spears' length in width. The city is as large as Seville or Cordova; its streets, I speak of the principal ones, are very wide and straight; some of these, and all the inferior ones, are half land and half water, and are navigated by canoes. All the streets at intervals have openings, through which the water flows, crossing from one street to another; and at these openings, some of which are very wide, there are also very wide bridges, composed of large pieces of timber, of great strength and well put together; on many of these bridges ten horses can go abreast. Foreseeing that if the inhabitants of the city should prove treacherous, they would possess great advantages from the manner in which the city is constructed, since by removing the bridges at the entrances, and abandoning the place, they could leave us to perish by famine without our being able to reach the main land, as soon as I had entered it, I made great haste to build four brigatines, which were soon finished, and were large enough to take ashore three hundred men and the horses, whenever it should become necessary.

>>2846056
>Martin Luther "muh sola scriptura"
>Nietzsche "the ubersmensch"
>Stirner "muh spooks"
>Hitler the fascist faggot
>Karl Marx the commie faggot

Germans are cancer of humanity

>>2846201
you don't have to be so edgy here anon, it's alright. no one will ridicule you or call you new for talking like a sensible person on a board for actual discussion. after all, isn't that why you're here?

>>2846199
Honestly that's pretty amazing. God fucking Spaniards had to shit everything up.

>>2846201
look another anglo using "fascist" improperly

>>2846201
don't forget
>Kant "muh autism"
>Hegel "muh dasein"
>Spengler "Muh Faust"

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>>2846201
Cry more

SOLA SCRIPTURA

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>>2846014
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_military_history#Jews_of_China

>The stele dating 1489 states that Song Dynasty founder Emperor Taizu (mistakenly referred to as Ming Taizu) went on military campaigns to “pacify the Under Heaven” during the early years of his reign. When the armies successfully gained control of China and solidified the power of the Song Dynasty, Emperor Taizu bestowed the “sinicized” Jewish soldiers with land “to settle and enjoy their occupation in the villages”. Jewish soldiers continued to serve in the Chinese military through the Southern Song Dynasty. The stele dating 1512 states “those who subdued the enemy and resisted aggression and were ‘boundlessly loyal to the country’” were successful in their endeavors. The term “boundlessly loyal to the country” refers to the famous tattoo on the back of General Yue Fei, a noted patriot and martyr. So the loyalty of the Jewish soldiers was compared to that of Yue Fei. The same source even claims that "Israelites" served in Yue Fei's armies and helped to combat the Jurchen armies invading China during that time.

>>2846623
>The same source even claims that "Israelites" served in Yue Fei's armies and helped to combat the Jurchen armies invading China during that time.

God damn even China got jewed

>>2846697
top kek

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>>2846186
>The Chinese Sung dynasty, was the most splendid civilization of its time, outshining even Persia and the Ottoman Empire, and certainly out-distancing poorer, divided Europe.

>>2846743
>not an argument

>>2846201
Karl Marx was homophobic though

My time to shine :D. On the Arabs [Dashi to the Chinese], compiled from the records of Du Huang, who was a POW in the Abbasid Caliphate following the Battle of Talas.

>The Dashi (Arabs) were originally under the rule of Anxi (Persia). The men have high noses, are dark, and bearded. The women are very fair [white] and when they go out they veil the face. Five times daily they worship Tianshen [lit. Heavenly God]. They wear silver girdles, with silver knives suspended. They do not drink wine, nor use music. Their place of worship will accommodate several hundreds of people.

>Every seventh day the King (Caliph) sits on high, and speaks to those below saying, ' Those who are killed by the enemy will be born in heaven above; those who slay the enemy will receive happiness.' Therefore they are usually valiant fighters. Their land is sandy and stony, not fit for cultivation; so they hunt and eat flesh.

>Kufa is the place of their capital. Its men and women are attractive in appearance and large in stature. Their clothing is handsome, and their carriage and demeanor leisurely and lovely. When women go outdoors, they always cover their faces, regardless of whether they are noble or base. They pray to heaven five times a day. They eat meat [ even] when practicing abstention, [for] they believe the taking of life to be meritorious

>The followers of the religion of the Dashi have a means to denote the degrees of family relations, but it is degenerated and they don’t bother about it. They don’t eat the meat of pigs, dogs, donkeys and horses, they don’t respect neither the king of the country, neither their parents, they don’t believe in supernatural powers, they perform sacrifice to heaven and to no one else. According their customs every seventh day is a holiday, on which no trade and no cash transactions are done, whereas when they drink alcohol, they are behaving in a ridiculous and undisciplined way during the whole day.

>>2847036
This is Ibn Battuta on the Kingdom of Mali.
>The negroes possess some admirable qualities. They are seldom unjust, and have a greater abhorrence of injustice than any other people. Their sultan shows no mercy to anyone who is guilty of the least act of it. There is complete security in their country. Neither traveller nor inhabitant in it has anything to fear from robbers or men of violence. They do not confiscate the property of any white man who dies in their country, even if it be uncounted wealth. On the contrary, they give it into the charge of some trustworthy person among the whites, until the rightful heir takes possession of it. They are careful to observe the hours of prayer, and assiduous in attending them in congregations, and in bringing up their children to them.

>On Fridays, if a man does not go early to the mosque, he cannot find a corner to pray in, on account of the crowd. It is a custom of theirs to send each man his boy [to the mosque] with his prayer-mat; the boy spreads it out for his master in a place befitting him [and remains on it] until he comes to the mosque. Their prayer-mats are made of the leaves of a tree resembling a date-palm, but without fruit.

>Another of their good qualities is their habit of wearing clean white garments on Fridays. Even if a man has nothing but an old worn shirt, he washes it and cleans it, and wears it to the Friday service. Yet another is their zeal for learning the Koran by heart. They put their children in chains if they show any backwardness in memorizing it, and they are not set free until they have it by heart. I visited the qadi in his house on the day of the festival. His children were chained up, so I said to him, "Will you not let them loose?" He replied, "I shall not do so until they learn the Koran by heart."

>>2847040
Ibn Fadlan on the Russians. A better version.
>I saw the Rusiyyah when they had arrived on their trading expedition and had disembarked at the River Atil. I have never seen more perfect physiques than theirs—they are like palm trees, are fair and reddish, and do not wear the qurctaq or the caftan. The man wears a cloak with which he covers one half of his body, leaving one of his arms uncovered. Every one of them carries an axe, a sword and a dagger and is never without all of that which we have mentioned.

>Their swords are of the Frankish variety, with broad, ridged blades. Each man, from the tip of his toes to his neck, is covered in dark-green lines, pictures and such like. Each woman has, on her breast, a small disc, tied around her neck, made of either iron, silver, copper or gold, in relation to her husband's financial and social worth. Each disc has a ring to which a dagger is attached, also lying on her breast. Around their necks they wear bands of gold and silver. Whenever a man's wealth reaches ten thousand dirhams, he has a band made for his wife; if it reaches twenty thousand dirhams, he has two bands made for her—for every ten thousand more, he gives another band to his wife. Sometimes one woman may wear many bands around her neck.

>>2847050
Herodotus describes a Phoenicians crew's voyage around the continent of Africa
>Libya is washed on all sides by the sea except where it joins Asia, as was first demonstrated, so far as our knowledge goes, by the Egyptian king Necho, who, after calling off the construction of the canal between the Nile and the Arabian gulf, sent out a fleet manned by a Phoenician crew with orders to sail west about and return to Egypt and the Mediterranean by way of the Straits of Gibraltar.

>The Phoenicians sailed from the Arabian gulf into the southern ocean, and every autumn put in at some convenient spot on the Libyan coast, sowed a patch of ground, and waited for next year's harvest. Then, having got in their grain, they put to sea again, and after two full years rounded the Pillars of Heracles in the course of the third, and returned to Egypt.

>These men made a statement which I do not myself believe, though others may, to the effect that as they sailed on a westerly course round the southern end of Libya, they had the sun on their right - to northward of them. This is how Libya was first discovered by sea.

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>>2847053
Here is some more of Ibn Battuta complaining.
1/5

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>>2847065
2/5

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>>2847070
3/5

>>2847075
4/5

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>>2847080
my bad

>>2847084
5/5 last one. Good job OP on creating a good thread. Thats all I have for now.

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>>2847087
Wow I'm an idiot.

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>>2846364
>Hegel "muh dasein"

>>2847050
This is literally OP's post m8

>>2846146
He met them

>>2847108
I know. I did say it was a better version. It explains things a lot more. Do you have anything to add to this thread other than being a complete asshat?

>>2847121
yeah you seem like an overly sensitive cunt for one

>>2847149
:^)

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Jewish traveler Benjamin of Tudela (1130-1173) on Persian Jewish war tribe
>There are men of Israel in the land of Persia who say that in the mountains dwell four of the tribes of Israel, namely, the tribe of Dan, the tribe of Zevulun, the tribe of Asher, and the tribe of Naphtali. They are governed by their own prince, Joseph the Levite. Among them are learned scholars. They sow and reap and go forth to war as far as the land of Cush, by way of the desert. They are in league with the Kofar-al-Turak, pagan tribesmen who worship the wind and live in the wilderness.

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Benjamin of Tudela on the Samaritans
>It is the abode of about one hundred Cutheans, who observe the Mosaic law only, and are called Samaritans. They have priests, descendants of Aaron The Priest, of blessed memory, whom they call Aaronim. These do not intermarry with any other but priestly families; but they are priests only of their own law, who offer sacrifices and burnt-offerings in their synagogue on Mount Gerizim. They do this in accordance with the words of Scripture, "Thou shalt put the blessing on Mount Gerizim," and they pretend that this is the Holy Temple.On passover and holidays they offer burnt-offerings on the altar which they have erected on Mount Gerizim, from the stones put up by the children of Israel after they had crossed the Jordan. They pretend to be of the tribe of Ephraim, and are in possession of the tomb of Joseph the righteous, the son of our father Jacob, upon whom be peace, as is proved by the following passage of Scripture, "The bones of Joseph, which the children of Israel brought up with them from Egypt, they buried in Sichem."

>>2847170
>They have priests, descendants of Aaron The Priest, of blessed memory
>Jacob, upon whom be peace

Kind of interesting how Jews and Muslims are so similar. The whole "Peace be upon him" when they say peoples names, why do they even hate each other?

>>2847191
Arab Christians do the same. I don't know about European Christians though.

>>2847198
It's probably just a Near East thing in general

>>2847050
>I saw the Rusiyyah when they had arrived on their trading expedition and had disembarked at the River Atil. I have never seen more perfect physiques than theirs—they are like palm trees, are fair and reddish, and do not wear the qurctaq or the caftan. The man wears a cloak with which he covers one half of his body, leaving one of his arms uncovered. Every one of them carries an axe, a sword and a dagger and is never without all of that which we have mentioned.

isn't this also Michael Crichton's Eaters of the Dead?

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>>2847040
>>2847050
>>2847053
>>2847065
>>2847070
>>2847075
>>2847084
>>2847089
Excellent reading anon!

>>2846201
You forgot Schopenhauer, Heidegger, Kant, Hegel, Feuerbach, Schiller, Bauer, and the other non-meme philosophers.
>Hitler
He was a politician first and foremost.

>>2847170
>>2847169
more

>>2847040
>The negroes

that word didn't exist

>>2847550
It's the closest translation from Arabic.

>>2847550
>translation

stop being dumb. the word they used was zanj and its the closest word we have in english

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Nice thread

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>>2847191
ultra-orthodox interpretations plus remembrance of blood feud

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Always makes me laugh.

>>2848990
Do you want me to break my beck?

>>2849005
Some men just want to watch the world burn.

>>2849005
Neck*

>>2847170
Jews really had beef with the Samaritans

>>2846050
Literally the most shit tier edgy middle school "philosopher" in human history

>>2846743
read a book

>>2846146
He thought that it made men weak and not search for higher truths

>>2847257
>Hegel
>Muh state is thuh greatest and worship muh Kaiser

>>2846623
There's been a long history of Jews in China

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_China

>>2847053
>Libya is washed on all sides by the sea except where it joins Asia

How big was Libya then?

In Herodotus' book three he talks about the Aethiopians(not the same place as modern Ethiopia, to me it looks like modern day Nubia, literally directly below the Sahara).

>"Where the south declines towards the setting sun lies the country called Aethiopia, the last inhabited land in that direction. There gold is obtained in great plenty, huge elephants abound, with wild trees of all sorts, and ebony; and the men are taller, handsomer, and longer lived than anywhere else."

The word Αἰθίοψ or Aithiops literally means "burnt" or "charred" face, probably skin color.

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>>2851491
Also if you've read the Little Iliad, the early Greeks too bring up the existence of the Aethiopians. Of course
>hurr durr proof that the trojan war actually happened
But he did know of their existence, as shown with the existence of Memnon, king of Aethiopis. Interestingly enough, he was also a demigod, supposedly the son of Eos, goddess of the Dawn, as was told my Hesiod.

>>2851491
>>2851541
Everybody forgets the Horn of Africa was for a long time the biggest and most lucrative sea route on the planet.

>"There are different cultures, but only one civilization, the western one" Mustafa Kemal Ataturk after his time in France

>"There are different cultures, but only one civilization, the western one" Mustafa Kemal Ataturk after his time in France
This is just Ataturk catering to the West's and westerners delusion of being superior to everybody and being the ''only civilization'' in reality, he really doesn't believe this. Also you must've had your head so far up your ass to actually think the West is the ''only civilization'' every civilization, no matter how formerly great has ended. Western Civilization won't be any different.

>>2847036
>>2847040
>>2847050
>>2847053
>>2847065

Truly amazing

>>2852836
>"There are different cultures, but only one civilization, the western one" Mustafa Kemal Ataturk after his time in France
I'm sure he would have sucked anybody's dick if it got Islam out of Turkey lmao

>>2852874
>got Islam out of Turkey lmao
And he failed. Islam is simply too resilient and strong to be defeated by Secularism and the West. The ban that he put on the Hijab has been removed, and state funding for Mosques in Turkey is back again. Islam will win in the end.

>>2852874
this was back in 1910, such views were common for people in the young turks movement desu

>>2846014
From Aristotele book of physics:


>But neither does time exist without change; for when the state of our own minds does not change at all, or we have not noticed its changing, we do not realize that time has elapsed, any more than those who are fabled to sleep among the heroes in Sardinia do when they are awakened; for they connect the earlier 'now' with the later and make them one, cutting out the interval because of their failure to notice it. So, just as, if the 'now' were not different but one and the same, there would not have been time, so too when its difference escapes our notice the interval does not seem to be time. If, then, the non-realization of the existence of time happens to us when we do not distinguish any change, but the soul seems to stay in one indivisible state, and when we perceive and distinguish we say time has elapsed, evidently time is not independent of movement and change. It is evident, then, that time is neither movement nor independent of movement.

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>>2846014
We was handsome...until Christianity came along.

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When will Ansgar be recognized ?

>>2850268
Can you please elaborate?
I Agree with you just want to know other Nietzsche hater opinions

>>2853143

>you will never be Ansgar's bodyguard, a former mercenary who became Christian
>you will never save your master by defeating a bunch of Vikings first in a brawl and then in a drinking contest so hard that they beg to be baptized because the Christian God is obviously very powerful to bestow such powers to His faithful.

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>>2846014

>>2846623
I loved that story where some famous portugese missionary was sent to China and met some weird looking asian dude that was dying to see him.
Dude was basically "yo, what's up, dude?
Glad to meet a fellow monotheist, i'm a jew.
Abraham knew what it's really about, didnt he?
Yeah, glad to have met you.
Came from some jewish villages nearby. We've been chilling around these parts for 1300 years.
You should come to our synagogue sometimes."

The missionary was like "what the fuck did i just witness? How did i meet jews in the middle of China!?"

I can post some bits from the memoirs of Jan Chryzostom Pasek, a petty Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth nobleman and soldier. It's not really a very huge culture clash since he mostly talks about other European nations.

From an expedition to Denmark (aiding the Danes against the Swedes):

>The people there are handsome too; fair are the women, even too fair of complexion; finely do they attire themselves; but town or country - all wear wooden clogs. In town when they walk over the paving stones, such a racket do they make that a body cannot hear what is said to him; ladies of a higher station though, wear the same sort of slippers as Polish women do. Yet in their affections they are not as reserved as our women. For though they show at first uncommon timidity, after but one visit and the speaking of a few heedless words, they fall passionately in love and are incapable of hiding it: father, mother, rich dowry, she is prepared to forsake all and ride off with her lover, be it to the ends of the earth.

>Their beds are set into the wall like closets, and they pile them with plenty of bedclothes. They sleep naked as their mother bore them, nor do they see any shame in undressing and dressing in each other's presence, nor heed even a guest, but by candlelight they remove all their outer garments, and finally their underclothes too, hanging everything on wooden pegs; then, naked as ever they be, bolting the door and blowing out the candle, at last they crawl into that closet and go to sleep. When we told them it was unsightly, in our country a wife would not do that in front of her husband, they said: "With us there's no disgrace, and no point being ashamed of one's own members that the Lord himself created."

>>2853454
>As for their sleeping nude, they say, "my shirt and other garments have enough of serving me during the day and covering me; by night at least one should preserve them, and besides, what need have I to take fleas and lice into my bed at night and give them leave to bite me, thereby keeping me from delicious sleep!". Our lads played various pranks on them, but they did not break their custom.

(the year being 1658)

>>2853455
>That diet of theirs is exceedingly droll, for rarely do they eat anything hot, but having cooked for the whole week various pots of food, they eat it cold, taking frequent mouthfuls even while they thresh - for their womenfolk thresh with flails like the men - scarce have they threshed one sheaf but they sit down in the straw, take some bread and, spreading it with the butter which always stands with it in a firkin, they eat it, then get up again to thresh, and so they work, by bites.

>When they kill an ox, a pig or a sheep, they waste not a single drop of blood, but draw it off into a vessel; they stir into it hulled barley or buckwheat, stuff the entrails of the beast with it and cook it in a pot; then on a huge platter they weave a garland of these entrails about the head of this same beast, and so at every meal it is placed on the table and eaten as a great delicacy. Even in gentry homes they do so; and they pestered me to death, offering it to me, until at last I said it does not befit Poles to eat it, for our dogs would turn against us, it being their dish.

The Roman Empire as described by the Weilüe, a third century Chinese historical text.

>The kingdom of Da Qin (Rome) is also called Lijian. It is west of Anxi (Parthia) and Tiaozhi (Characene and Susiana), and west of the Great Sea.

>From the city of Angu (Gerrha), on the frontier of Anxi (Parthia), you take a boat and cut directly across to Haixi (‘West of the Sea’ = Egypt). With favourable winds it takes two months; if the winds are slow, perhaps a year; if there is no wind, perhaps three years.

>The country (that you reach) is west of the sea (haixi), which is why it is called Haixi (literally: ‘West of the Sea’ = Egypt). There is a river (the Nile) flowing out of the west of this country, and then there is another great sea (the Mediterranean). The city of (Wu) Chisan (Alexandria) is in Haixi (Egypt).

>From below this country you go north to reach the city of Wudan (Tanis?). You (then) head southwest and cross a river (the Sebannitus branch of the Nile?) by boat, which takes a day. You head southwest again, and again cross a river (the Canopis branch of the Nile?) by boat, which takes another day. There are, in all, three major cities [that you come to].

>Now, if you leave the city of Angu (Gerrha) by the overland route, you go north to Haibei (‘North of the Sea’ – the lands between Babylonia and Jordan), then west to Haixi (Egypt), then turn south to go through the city of Wuchisan (Alexandria). After crossing a river, which takes a day by boat, you circle around the coast (to the region of Apollonia, the port of Cyrene). (From there, i.e. the region of Apollonia) six days is generally enough to cross the (second) great sea (the Mediterranean) to reach that country (Da Qin = Rome).

>>2853484
>This country (the Roman Empire) has more than four hundred smaller cities and towns. It extends several thousand li in all directions.13 The king has his capital (that is, the city of Rome) close to the mouth of a river (the Tiber).14 The outer walls of the city are made of stone.

>This region has pine trees, cypress, sophora, catalpa, bamboo, reeds, poplars, willows, parasol trees, and all sorts of plants.15 The people cultivate the five grains [traditionally: rice, glutinous and non-glutinous millet, wheat and beans], and they raise horses, mules, donkeys, camels and silkworms.16 (They have) a tradition of amazing conjuring. They can produce fire from their mouths, bind and then free themselves, and juggle twelve balls with extraordinary skill.17

>The ruler of this country is not permanent. When disasters result from unusual phenomena, they unceremoniously replace him, installing a virtuous man as king, and release the old king, who does not dare show resentment.18

>The common people are tall and virtuous like the Chinese, but wear hu (‘Western’) clothes. They say they originally came from China, but left it.19

>They have always wanted to communicate with China but, Anxi (Parthia), jealous of their profits, would not allow them to pass (through to China).20

>The common people can write in hu (‘Western’) script.21 They have multi-storeyed public buildings and private; (they fly) flags, beat drums, (and travel in) small carriages with white roofs, and have a postal service with relay sheds and postal stations, like in the Middle Kingdom (China).

>From Anxi (Parthia) you go around Haibei (‘North of the Sea’ – the lands between Babylonia and Jordan) to reach this country.22

>>2853486
>The people (of these countries) are connected to each other. Every 10 li (4.2 km) there is a ting (relay shed or changing place), and every 30 li (12.5 km) there is a zhi (postal station).23 There are no bandits or thieves, but there are fierce tigers and lions that kill those travelling on the route. If you are not in a group, you cannot get through.24

>This country (Rome) has installed dozens of minor kings. The king’s administrative capital (Rome) is more than 100 li (42 km) around.25 There is an official Department of Archives.

>The king has five palaces at 10 li (4.2 km) intervals. He goes out at daybreak to one of the palaces and deals with matters until sunset and then spends the night there. The next day he goes to another palace and, in five days makes a complete tour. They have appointed thirty-six leaders who discuss events frequently.26 If one leader does not show up, there is no discussion. When the king goes out for a walk, he always orders a man to follow him holding a leather bag. Anyone who has something to say throws his or her petition into the bag. When he returns to the palace, he examines them and determines which are reasonable.27

>They use glass to make the pillars and table utensils in the palaces.28 They manufacture bows and arrows.

>They divide the various branch principalities of their territory into small countries such as that of the king of Zesan (Azania?),29 the king of Lüfen (Leucos Limen),30 the king of Qielan (Wadi Sirhan),31 the king of Xiandu (Leukê Komê),32 the king of Sifu (Petra),33 (and that of) the king of Yuluo (Karak).34 There are so many other small kingdoms it is impossible to give details on each one.

>>2853487
>This country produces fine linen.1 They make gold and silver coins. One gold coin is equal to ten silver coins.2

>They have fine brocaded cloth that is said to be made from the down of ‘water-sheep’. It is called Haixi (‘Egyptian’) cloth. This country produces the six domestic animals, which are all said to come from the water.3

>It is said that they not only use sheep’s wool, but also bark from trees, or the silk from wild cocoons,4 to make brocade, mats, pile rugs, woven cloth and curtains, all of them of good quality, and with brighter colours than those made in the countries of Haidong (“East of the Sea”).5

>Furthermore, they regularly make a profit by obtaining Chinese silk, unravelling it, and making fine hu (‘Western’) silk damasks.6 That is why this country trades with Anxi (Parthia) across the middle of the sea. The seawater is bitter and unable to be drunk, which is why it is rare for those who try to make contact to reach China.

>The mountains (of this country) produce nine-coloured jewels (fluorite) of inferior quality. They change colour on different occasions from blue-green to red, yellow, white, black, green, purple, fiery red, and dark blue.7 Nowadays nine-coloured stones of the same type are found in the Yiwu Shan (a mountain range east of Hami).8

>In the third Yangjia year (CE 134), the king of Shule (Kashgar), Chen Pan [who had been made a hostage at the court of the Kushan emperor, for some period between 114 and 120, and was later placed on the throne of Kashgar by the Kushans],9 offered a blue (or green) gem and a golden girdle from Haixi (Egypt).10

>Moreover, the Xiyu Jiutu (‘Ancient Sketch of the Western Regions’) now says that both Jibin (Kapisha-Gandhāra) and Tiaozhi (Characene and Susiana) produce precious stones approaching the quality of jade.11

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>>2853490
Section 14 – Roman Dependencies

Now, (the Roman Empire) can be summed up as follows: the number of people and families cannot be given in detail. It is the biggest country west of the Bai Congling (‘White Pamir Mountains’).1 They have installed numerous minor kings so only the bigger dependencies are noted here:


http://depts.washington.edu/silkroad/texts/weilue/weilue.html#section11

See source for the rest.

>>2853475
>They do not have stoves in their houses, unless they be grand gentlemen, because the king takes a big tax from them; 100 thales per year, so they said. But they have broad hearths with as many chairs around them as people in the household; and so sitting they warm themselves. Or sometimes for better heating of the room there's a small channel, like a little trough, in the center of a room; it being filled with live coals, they puff on them from one end, causing them to glow and spread warmth.

>>2846071
This is because of Zoroastrianism in which the "motto" is "good thoughts, good words, good deeds". The main premise in the religion is that by not thinking of bad actions, they won't be made

>>2853506
>The churches there are very beautiful, having been Catholic before; the service, too, is more beautiful than that of our Polish Calvinists because you see altars and pictures in the churches. We attended some sermons, since they had prepared them in Latin especially for us and invited us to hear them, and so circumspectly did they preach, without prounouncing the slightest word contra fidem [against the faith] that you would say a Roman priest is preaching; and they were proud of this, telling us: we believe in the same thing you do, in vain do you call us apostates.

>But, as usual Father Piekarski flayed us for being present: many another attended in order to see the lovely damsels and their ways. During their German [Lutheran] service, they cover their eyes, the men with their hats, the women with their veils, and bowing, put their heads beneath the benches; at that time our boys would steal their books from them, their handkerchiefs, etc. Once, the preacher observed this, and so hard did he laugh that for laughing he could not finish the sermon. And we, watching that, had to laugh too. The Lutherans stupebant [were stunned] that we are laughing, the preacher along with us.

>Afterward, he cited the example of the soldier who asked a hermit to pray for him: the hermit knelt down to pray, meanwhile the soldier snatched the little sheep who carried the hermit's bundle and fled. At the end of this story, exclamavit: O devotionem supra devotiones! alter orat, alter furatur. [He exclaimed: O devotion of devotions! One prays, the other steals.]

>>2846186
Do you mean Yuan dynasty or Song dynasty?

>>2846014
The other day I decided to drive through the bad part of town. I probably saw 20 or so crack addicts on the ground, several burnt out cars and a child chained in the front yard, next to the corpse of another child.

This is my experience with the Irish of Chicago

>>2853522
This was under Kublai Khan, so Sung?

>>2853521
>From that time on, when the moment came to cover their heads, they first put away their books and handkerchiefs, but not without laughter did they do so, one glancing at the other. When I discoursed with them about what event they commemorated, covering their heads and shielding their eyes, since neither Christ nor the apostles ever did so, no one could reply; only one said that by this act they were remembering that the Jews had covered Christ's eyes and ordered him to prophesy. In answer to this I said: if you wish to commemorate fittingly passionem Domini, then someone should deal you all fisticuffs at the nape of the neck, while you cover up, for so it was done then; but no one would agree to this.

>In no time, the Brandenburg Elector knew about this church service and when the district supervisor of Kaniow was visiting him, he says: "For God's sake, My Lord, send warning to the Governor from me; he should forbid Polish gentlemen to frequent th echurches, for surely great numbers of them will be converted to the Lutheran faith, because, from what I hear, so fiery is their devotion that the heat consumes the handkerchiefs of Danish damsels." The Governor had a mighty good laugh over that warning.

I've kept the "supervisor of Kaniow" and "Governor" by the translator (Catherine S. Leach) but strictly he's talking about a Starosta (a royal territorial administrator) and a Voivode (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voivodes_of_the_Polish-Lithuanian_Commonwealth) respectively, the latter being the voivode of Ruthenia Stefan Czarniecki, the leader of the expedition.

>>2853528
But Kublai was the founder of the the Yuan Dynasty, which he did after spending over thirty years conquering the Song.

>>2853540
Poles have such a strange sense of humour; thank God it lost some of its impertinence.

>>2853603
>sense of humour
Here's another bit; Pasek is on business in Gdańsk (Danzig) around the time Sobieski left to relieve Vienna.

>All men of the Catholic faith were gladdened by our monarch's resolve, except the Lutherans and Calvinists, for they considered that war as their own; they beseeched God to give vitory to the Turks, saying it was to their advantage and siding with the oppressed Thokoly and all the Protestants.

> I was in Gdańsk [Danzig] at the time; and at all the church meetings they were praying to God for a Turkish victory. If they guessed from reading the newspapers that things were going well for Thokoly, that he had strangled a few Germans somewhere on a raid, forthwith they were triumphs, forthwith gratiarum actiones. "Och, Her Got! Och, liber Got!"

>They were selling pictures of Thokoly in full armor, on horseback; handbills were no sooner printed but they were sung at once by the sellers. Once, I'm walking along and one fellow is singing; I'd had a few quaffs, and I ask, What he is singing about that everyone listens so keenly? They said it was news of how Thokoly is winning out over the Emperor. The fellow singing, having heard me inquire, shows me the writing in German, "Ja, Pan [Sir], buy it, buy it!" I ask "How much?" He answers "A copper. [Groschen]" I gave it to him. A throng of peasants followed me to a tavern looking for some coin. I say to one slyboots "You'll have a zloty, my good lad, if you wipe your backside with this paper." The peasant with great relish drops down his pants and he rubbed his bare behind with those bills, then he tossed them into the [river] Motława.

>The Germans began to murmur, to grumble; I went off. The Catholics and those who watched the incident from the boats nearly burst their bellies laughing. However, when I was telling the Catholic townsmen, also some Dominican fathers and Jesuits, they told me: "Lucky for you, it didn't start an uproar, for Thokoly gets nearly divine veneration here."

>>2853664
*In case anyone is wondering, Thököly was a Lutheran rebel against the Habsburg who threw in his lot with the Ottomans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imre_Th%C3%B6k%C3%B6ly

>>2851491
>>2852809
>>2851541
It is Ethiopia, or at least, many today believe it is; even Homers talks about in the Odyssey (800 BC). Poseidon was in Ethiopia because they were having a homage/sacrifice for him there and when he gets back to the Mediterranean he gets triggered because everybody is helping Odysseus again.

>>2846201
Also remember that germans sackedrome and sent us into the dark ages
Germans must be destroyed for the good of humanity

>>2850884
I assume by Lybia they mean the entire African landmass (which as described is surrounded by water except where it meets Asia)

>>2853664
>>2853668
It's kinda silly knowing that Protestants were so petty and hated Catholics so much they wanted the Turks to win.

How were Protestants in the Ottoman empire treated anyway? I can't imagine there were too many outside of Hungary

>>2846066
early greeks fantasized about babylon, the basicly saw them as the only other civilized people around. thats pre-islamic tho

>>2853311
What did he mean by this?

>>2853540
>so fiery is their devotion that the heat consumes the handkerchiefs of Danish damsels
what did he mean by this

>>2854009
>Hey, Chang, you've seen the Brits, what do they look like? I feel like sketching shit.
>Oh, the Brits? Nothing like us man. First of all they are tall, and hairy. I mean, reeeeally hairy. Some of them have hair on their backs, and arms and even on the chest for Buddha's sake.
>Tall and hairy, got it. What else?
>Umm, long faces, I mean their noses. They are long, and weird. They are like birds with those noses.
>Cool, beaks for noses. Anything else?
>Oh, the smoke opium and tobacco non stop. I swear I've seen some of them blow smoke without even smoking anything. They've got tobacco in their systems dude.

>>2853664
>>2853918
More of Pasek's Catholic vs Protestant shenanigans in Gdańsk:

>I, having been advised to buy horses at a certain trader's in Nowe Ogrody (precincts in the direction of Oliwa), set out there late one Sunday afternoon when nearly everyone in Gdańsk goes out for a walk or a ride. On my way back from the trader's, it began to rain. The weather being fair when I left, I had not taken my cloak; so then, I stopped at an inn to wait out the rain. Those Sunday strollers were also running for shelter wherever they could find it, several of them slipped into the room where I was and sat down at some tables; they began to discourse about the war.

>I did not understand their discourse, no more than a few words here and there: later, however, the fellow I shall write about explained it to me (and there's a heavy downpour outside, water flowing in the gutters like rivers). Looking out the window, one of them says: "Ah, God grant there be streams of Catholic blood flowing in Vienna like that water." Another one says: "Our hope is in God." But one German - sitting apart from them - shrugs his shoulders, rolls his eyes to heaven, glances at me, saying nothing, only shaking his head.

>I see it but do not understand why he is doing it, nor do I understand the words the others had spoken, nor do I ask him, for I do not know the fellow and do not trust him. Until once again they speak of the king in these words: "But what did that stuffed swinge go there for? What business of his was it? May they both, king and emperor, hear the clank of shackles!"

>>2854108
>Meanwhile, that one sitting apart from them could restrain himself no longer, he being a Catholic. He was German, though not from Gdańsk, from some Prussian town; a trade broker who had dealings with the merchants. He, addressing them in Polish not in German, so I would understand, utters these words: "I thought I was sitting among Christians, but I see I'm among pagans; I thought I was among men, but I see you are beasts; is it permitted to talk such crimes? May you be hanged!" And they seize their daggers; he had but a reed cane. One of them wanted either to smite him with the flat of his dagger or perhaps slash him; he parried with his cane; the other wounded him slightly. He calls out to me: "Your Honor, they're talking against the king!" I to sword, the Germans take to their heels, but twas a bother to run off toward Gdańsk after them.

>>2853311
ah yes, northerners

>>2846133
>goes out of his way to moan about /pol/

At this point I'd take actual Hitler over you guys.

>>2853484
All the names seem incredibly different from what they're supposed to mean in that translation

>>2854111
And a bit from the Vienna campaign itself, recounting the story of his nephew who took part:

>The Germans, on the other hand, took no captives, but killed them crudelissime [with exceeding cruelty]. Even after death, they dragged their corpses about; flayed them, twisted the flayed strips into straps they might use; the third day after the battle, it was already hard to see a Turk on the battlefield with his body entire; and if any of our men was not cautious in leading a captive, and he rode among Germans, they would seize the prisoner out of his grasp and kill him.

>My nephew Stanisław Pasek was leading a Turk, some kind of important fellow, for he was handsomely attired and riding a beautiful horse; my nephew, having disarmed the captive, was leading him along on his horse, holding only the reins, when along comes a German, rides alongside the Turk, and stabs him with a dagger. The Turk only groaned; my nephew looked back, and the Turk, mouth agape, is slipping off his horse. Having stabbed him, the German rode off at once to the side. My nephew begins to scold him: "You pig, you knave! Killed my prisoner you have, and is that permitted?" The German but laughs and says: "Ja, Pan, are you Poles feeding the devil?" My nephew rails at him that you're a scoundrel, not a cavalier - to kill a captive already in our hands. But the German only rides on, laughing.

>What else was there to do? The Germans feel great rancor as the Turks robbed them of so much of their country, their provinces and fortresses; secondly, they are a natura crudeles [innately cruel] and know not how to observe knightly restraint in victoria.

>>2854147
All very interesting, got more?

>>2854147
Germans always were animals..

>>2854199
I've found a Google Books version

https://books.google.com/books?id=UXOyzpp6YJoC

A lot of it isn't that interesting or relevant to the thread though.

>>2854252
*Also I was copying my previous posts by hand from a physical copy of the same book so sorry for any typos.

>>2854123
>24/7 /pol/ threads that are the same topics everyday
>Mention it
>Get pissy
I think it warranted, if /pol/ is allowed to have /pol/ threads here anons can complain about it

Now gb2 /pol/

>>2854252
>>2854199
>>2854147
Here's an amusing, sort-of-relevant story from the memoirs about Frenchmen in Warsaw (the Queen consort was French and there were many Frenchmen in court).

>More Frenchmen there were in Warsaw than fanned Cerberus' fires, throwing money around, carrying on intrigues - mainly nocturlnal, enjoying great freedom in Warsaw and great esteem; they performed triumphal spectacles in honor of their victories, even though invented and not real; at court a Frenchman can always gain entry, while a Pole must stand neraly half the day at the door; 'tis, to be brief, a sorely exaggerated esteem.

>Among their divers privileges I must mention this one: in Warsaw they were allowed to perform in theatro publico [on the public stage] a triumphal celebration of a victory over the German [Austrian] emperor. Upon bringing the actors to the theatrum along with the music and fireworks for the celebration, a mob of people gathered to view so marvelous a spectaculum; some came on horseback, being either on their way out of Warsaw or arriving; whoever took notice, though his affair be urgent, stayed to watch this wondrous performance.

>And I too was there, for I was departing from Warsaw. Having left my lodgings, I, too stopped thus on horseback with my retainers to watch these wonders. Circa hoc spectaculum [around this spectacle] were standing people of different rank and temper. The French performed divers scenes: now armies attacked, now the foot and horse closed ranks, now one side gave up the field to another, now Germans were taken prisoner and beheaded, now a fortress was stormed and taken - in short, such things were performed at great expense and sumptuously. No sooner had the emperor's army been routed, as it were, and the enemy defeated in the field, but they bring in the emperor bound in chains, in his imperial robes but no longer wearing the imperia lcrown on his head, carrying it instead in his hands and surrendering it to the French king.

>>2854428
>We saw, of course, that the man impersonating the emperor in chains was a prominent Frenchman - he knew how to imitate his outer bearing and he stuck out his lip like the emperor. One of the Poles on horseback began to yell at the French actors: "Kill that son of a so-and-so now that you've got him; don't spare him, for if you let him go, he'll wage war after war, shed men's blood, and the world will never see peace; kill him and the French king will gain the imperium, he'll be emperor, and, God willing, he'll be king of Poland. But if you don't kill him, I'll kill him in the end."

>And if he doesn't seize his bow, insert an arrow, and now pierces Sir Emperor's side so hard that out come sthe tip on the other side; he did him in. The Poles to their bows, they take after that French mob, shooting at them, even wounding the one sitting in persona of the king; he fell from the throne under the theatrum onto his crown and then fled away with the other Frenchmen.

>>2846146
He found that belief in a healing / saving deity (Christ Jesus) effectively negated reality and nature as bad. "The religion of comfort" ; Christian morals assume what is peaceful, secure, heartwarming, sentimental, gentle, selfless etc are good morals. Nietzsche believed this was a negation of life, as life is not like this in actuality. He promoted "Yea-saying" to life, Dionysian affirmation, and a general gaiety for existence and experiences; including aspects of reality and nature that are commonly seen as dark, scary, bad, "fallen."

>>2854437
Warsaw was in an uproar then. Those who had done the shooting rode off, each going his own way; I myself immediately made off lest I be somehow mistakenly suspect, I too having been part of that throng. Having ridden half a mile beyond Warsaw in the direction of Tarczyn, I left my bow with Pan Łączyński to escape suspicion, then rode on slowly, taking only my hunting piece, for I expected them to give chase. And something of the sort did happen, for Queen Ludwika, though an imperiosus mulier [imperious termagant], to whom one could safely apply the saying coined for another monarch: Rex erat Helisabeth, verum regina Jacobus, imperiosus mulier [Elizabeth, an imperious termagant, was king, but James queen], shedding her haughtiness, fell at the king's feet, begging him to pursue them, to seize them.

The king gave the order then, for whoever could do so, to take to the highways and bring this affair to a speedy end, only sine effectu [without effect]; for whomever they overtook and asked, "From whence do you come riding? Was it not you who killed the emperor and wounded the French king?" - "Not I," and they let him be.

>>2854466
>The which query reached my ears too, only not until the following day. I stopped in to visit Pan Okuń; glad he was to see me; I'm telling him of this tragedy when a few dozen horse came riding into the village asking: "Was anyone riding through here from Warsaw?" They rode there, they enter the house: "Servus." - "Servus." My host asked them to be seated. And they ask me: "From whence is Your Honor riding?" Say I: "From Warsaw." - "When did Your Worship leave?" Say I: "After the death of the Christian emperor and the king of France." - "Did you see it happen?" - "I saw it." - "What sort of person was it who took the first shot at the emperor?" Say I: "Someone like Your Honor and myself."

>Says he, laughing: "Was it not yourself, Your Honor?" I answer: "Bows and arrows they were using there, while I came here without a quiver." Says he: "Even were it Your Honor who did it, or whoever else, you've the Lord's forgiveness for taking up the cudgels in such a mighty outrage; his Majesty the king expresses his sympathy only in the Queen's sight; in his heart he's amused by it." They then, having a hearty chortle over that coversation and making merry, drank up a barrel of my host's beer, and a second, and away they rode.

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>>2846014

>>2854105
Nail on fucking head

>>2854116
Essex

I rest my case.

>>2853359
Better one I heard recently about a guy studying Tang era christianity.

>Over a decade of painstaking research on tang era pagodas to see if any were churches
>finds one with the wrong orientation, sees statues in chapel at top and realises some of them are chinese interpretations of saints
>holy shit
>breaks this to villagers
>villagers' response is apparently 'Oh yeah some christians built that ages ago, my great grandfather told my grandfather about it.

>>2852884
The state funding was never gone admittedly, in fact it was his reform that made religion a state institution

>>2847065
>>2847070
>>2847075
>>2847084
>>2847089
10/10 readimg

also, what a prude.. god...

>>2848990
more? was interesting

>>2853311
The eternal Anglo

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>>2854437
did they just casually murder an innocent actor for the sake of banter?

>>2854735
it was a different time anon -people had different standards and morality

>>2846133
>how can I bring /pol/ into this thread

UH OH LOOKS LIKE YOU BROUGHT POL IN WITH YOUR THOUGHTS AND WORDS

IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT FOR BRINGING IT UP

IDIOT

>>2855066
>>2853513
>The main premise in the religion is that by not thinking of bad actions, they won't be made

hmmm gets me noggin joggin

>>2854548
kek

>>2846146
He was the edgy b-tard of his time. They also probably called him out on being shit, for having syphilis and whoring.

>>2855029
Basically it reads like some European gentleman having a nice stroll down on India

>>2847036
>>The followers of the religion of the Dashi have a means to denote the degrees of family relations, but it is degenerated and they don’t bother about it.

1 4 0 0

H U N D R E D

Y E A R S

>>2855099
140,000 years?

>>2854147
Have the Germans always been barbaric?

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>>2853664
fucking protestants

>>2855099
He was probably talking about family obedience.

>>2846141
>It contains merchants of great wealth and an incalculable number of people. Indeed, if the men of this city and of the rest of the country had the spirit of soldiers they would conquer the world; but they are not soldiers at all, only accomplished traders and most skilled craftsmen.
Doesn't that more or less describe China today?

>>2856062
Not really. It doesn't describe China back then either.

>>2854464
>Nietzsche believed this was a negation of life, as life is not like this in actuality.
well no shit, otherwise you wouldn't need to advocate for it and hold it up as an ideal

>>2853484
>>2853486
>>2853487
>>2853490
>>2853497

It's funny how simultaneously accurate and ridiculous this is. Does he make up things like the Seven Palaces and the Five Grains to make the place seem exotic but familiar, or is he taking it from unreliable secondhand accounts, or what?

>>2854146
The Chinese name for the Roman Empire was 大秦 or the Great Qin. Qin being the name of the founding dynasty of Imperial China, the implication was that they perceived the Roman Empire as being a Western counterpart on par with their own empire.

You also have to take into account that the pronunciations of characters in Chinese used by modern speakers is very different from those used in the third century, even though the meanings of the characters is the same. So the Tang dynasty's name for the Byzantine Empire, "Fulin" 拂菻 might have been pronounced more like "Butlim" in Middle Chinese.

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>Patrick Lafcadio Hearn (/hɜːrn/; 27 June 1850 – 26 September 1904) in Greek Πατρίkιος Λευkάδιος Χερν , known also by the Japanese name Koizumi Yakumo (小泉 八雲?), was an international writer, known best for his books about Japan, especially his collections of Japanese legends and ghost stories, such as Kwaidan: Stories and Studies of Strange Things. In the United States, Hearn is also known for his writings about the city of New Orleans based on his ten-year stay in that city.

>In 1890, Hearn went to Japan with a commission as a newspaper correspondent, which was quickly terminated. It was in Japan, however, that he found a home and his greatest inspiration. Through the goodwill of Basil Hall Chamberlain, Hearn gained a teaching position during the summer of 1890 at the Shimane Prefectural Common Middle School and Normal School in Matsue, a town in western Japan on the coast of the Sea of Japan. The Lafcadio Hearn Memorial Museum and his old residence are still two of Matsue's most popular tourist attractions. During his fifteen-month stay in Matsue, Hearn married Koizumi Setsu, the daughter of a local samurai family, with whom he had four children.[13] He became a naturalized Japanese, assuming the name Koizumi Yakumo, in 1896 after accepting a teaching position in Tokyo. After having been Greek Orthodox, Roman Catholic, and, later on, Spencerian, he became Buddhist.

Read Kakuzo Okakura's The Book of Tea, its basically a Japanese treatise on the West from 1906

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>>2854437
>he knew how to imitate his outer bearing and he stuck out his lip like the emperor.
Ah yes the House of Habsburg.

>>2854464
that logic is naturalistic fallacy, moral edition.

>>2857483
meant appeal to nature.

>>2854146
Many of them were given independently from the native name based on the countries geographical position or other attributes, like the name for Egypt referring to its position relative to the Indian Ocean/Red Sea.
We westerners are really not in a position to criticise this, having named Aotearoa "New Zealand" and Rapa Nui "Easter Island"

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>>2846050
Why do g*rmans have such a hard on for muzzies?

>>2856521
Reading about Greeks interacting with East Asian countries is pretty insane, here's one about a Greek who took part in Siamese politics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_Phaulkon
>Constantine Phaulkon, born Κωσταντής Γεράkης or Costantin Gerachi[1] (Greek: Κωνσταντῖνος Γεράkης, Konstantinos Gerakis, "γεράkι", is the word for "falcon") also known by the French simply as Monsieur Constance, the Thai noble title เจ้าพระยาวิชาเยนทร์, Chao Phraya Wichayen and the Portuguese Constantino Falcão (1647 – June 5, 1688) was a Greek adventurer, who became prime counsellor to King Narai of Ayutthaya,[2] assuming the title Chao P'raya Vichayen.[3]:59,64

>Phaulkon's closeness to the king naturally earned him the envy of some Thai members of the royal court, which would eventually prove to be his undoing. When King Narai became terminally ill, a rumor spread that Phaulkon wanted to use the designated heir, Phra Pui, as a puppet and actually become ruler himself. As unlikely as this was, it provided an excuse for Pra Phetracha, the foster brother of Narai to stage a coup d'état, the 1688 Siamese revolution. Without the king's knowledge, both Phaulkon and his followers as well as the royal heir were arrested and executed on June 5, 1688 in Lopburi. When King Narai learned what had happened, he was furious—but was too weak to take any action. Narai died several days later, virtually a prisoner in his own palace. Phetracha then proclaimed himself the new king of Siam and began a xenophobic regime which expelled almost all foreigners from the kingdom.

Any stories about the ottomans?

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Excerpt from a Victorian era English to Japanese dictionary.

>>2858340
>see numbers
>expect "eetch, knee" etc.
>get this
What?

>>2858352
>Hitotsu
>Futatsu
>Mitsu
>Yotsu
>Itsutsu
>Mutsu
>Nanatsu
>Yatsu
>Kokonatsu
Go look up kun'yomi.

>>2858365
*kokonotsu

>>2857541
Germans love invading and cruelty.

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>>2858340
>Jiggy jiggy fooney high kin serampan nai rosokoo doko?

>>2858367
Hotaru-san?

Jans Heuvelmeer, a Dutch sailor and merchant who visited Indonesia and surrounding parts of SEA on two voyages 1650-1654 and 1658-1661, on the Chinese:

>The tradesmen from Cathay were very numerous along the coasts of the East Indies. Compared to the people of Sunda, their skin was of a lighter tone, and their faces flat with narrow eyes. Their language is soft and with melody, their manners more civilised than those of the Javan people. Their religion still is of a primitive and fetishistic nature, as the missionaries of the Christian and Muhammedan faiths have not had much success with their people. In Batavia, Cathayan merchants sold many riches of their country such as were beautiful woven fabrics and finest porcelan. We came to learn that they came from a place called Huwang Tschau about 500 miles to the north, an important port of the empire of Cathay.

>>285854
also cruelty >>2854147

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Fun fact: Chess arrived in Europe through Spain. There, the chess piecess were adapted to the knights & kings theme it still has

>>2854267
>>>>>>>>reddit

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>>2858340
>CHEESE EYE
>TOKEY

Chiisai and toki, right?

>Oh my mar nanny eel oh arimas?
>Dalley

I kekked so hard. Why couldn't the British do the thingie where they teach the pronounciation without completely raping the closest grammar equivalent (romaji)?

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>>2846050
So many years and Nietzsche still triggers Christians. Hilarious

>>2846146
He was a bit of a contrarian.

>>2854630
He had never talked to the villagers about the pagoda's history?

>>2846014
>Ibn Fadlan
i think Michael Crighton wrote a novel about this guy

>>2846014
>fucking niggers
me when i visited america

>>2847089
>they didn't eat the white guy because they thought he was unripe
10/10

>>2853084
Pretty good, that bit.

>>2853664
>Protestants
>human
Pic one.

Someone needs to post this in every Protestant thread.

>>2858340
>a child
>baby san
Why is this funny to me?

>>2854123
>>2854123
>>2854123

>>2847053
So Necho sent Phoenicians to trael around the entirety of Africa? That does seem unbelievable.

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>Busbecq, a Fleming, was the ambassador and a spy of the Holy Roman Emperor at the Sublime Porte (the Turkish Sultan's court in Constantinople) from 1555-62. His letters provide important foreign accounts of the Ottoman state.

At Buda I made my first acquaintance with the Janissaries; this is the name by which the Turks call the infantry of the royal guard. The Turkish state has 12,000 of these troops when the corps is at its full strength. They are scattered through every part of the empire, either to garrison the forts against the enemy, or to protect the Christians and Jews from the violence of the mob. There is no district with any considerable amount of population, no borough or city, which has not a detachment of Janissaries to protect the Christians, Jews, and other helpless people from outrage and wrong.

A garrison of Janissaries is always stationed in the citadel of Buda. The dress of these men consists of a robe reaching down to the ankles, while, to cover their heads, they employ a cowl which, by their account, was originally a cloak sleeve, part of which contains the head, while the remainder hangs down and flaps against the neck. On their forehead is placed a silver gilt cone of considerable height, studded with stones of no great value.

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>>2861095
These Janissaries generally came to me in pairs. When they were admitted to my dining room they first made a bow, and then came quickly up to me, all but running, and touched my dress or hand, as if they intended to kiss it. After this they would thrust into my hand a nosegay of' the hyacinth or narcissus; then they would run back to the door almost as quickly as they came, taking care not to turn their backs, for this, according to their code, would be a serious breach of etiquette. After reaching the door, they would stand respectfully with their arms crossed, and their eyes bent on the ground, looking more like monks than warriors. On receiving a few small coins (which was what they wanted) they bowed again, thanked me in loud tones, and went off blessing me for my kindness. To tell you the truth, if I had not been told beforehand that they were Janissaries, I should, without hesitation, have taken them for members of some order of Turkish monks, or brethren of some Moslem college. Yet these are the famous Janissaries, whose approach inspires terror everywhere.

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>>2861104
The Turkish monarch going to war takes with him over 400 camels and nearly as many baggage mules, of which a great part are loaded with rice and other kinds of' grain. These mules and camels also serve to carry tents and armour, and likewise tools and munitions for the campaign. . . . The invading army carefully abstains from encroaching on its magazines at the outset; as they are well aware that when the season for campaigning draws to a close, they will have to retreat over districts wasted by the enemy, or scraped bare by countless hordes of men and droves of hungry animals, as if they had been devastated by locusts; accordingly they reserve their stores as much as possible for this emergency. Then the Sultan's magazines are opened, and a ration just sufficient to sustain life is daily weighed out to the Janissaries and other troops of the royal household. The rest of the army is badly off, unless they have provided some supplies at their own expense. . . . On such occasions they take out a few spoonfuls of flour and put them into water, adding some butter, and seasoning the mess with salt and spices; these ingredients are boiled, and a large bowl of gruel is thus obtained. Of this they eat once or twice a day, according to the quantity they have, without any bread, unless they have brought some biscuit with them.... Sometimes they have recourse to horseflesh; dead horses are of course plentiful in their great hosts, and such beasts as are in good condition when they die furnish a meal not to be despised by famished soldiers.

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>>2861111
From this you will see that it is the patience, self-denial and thrift of the Turkish soldier that enable him to face the most trying circumstances and come safely out of' the dangers that surround him. What a contrast to our men! Christian soldiers on a campaign refuse to put up with their ordinary food, and call for thrushes, becaficos [a small bird esteemed a dainty, as it feeds on figs and grapes], and suchlike dainty dishes! ... It makes me shudder to think of what the result of a struggle between such different systems must be; one of us must prevail and the other be destroyed, at any rate we cannot both exist ]in safety. On their side is the vast wealth of their empire, unimpaired resources, experience and practice in arms, a veteran soldiery, an uninterrupted series of victories, readiness to endure hardships, union, order, discipline, thrift and watchfulness. On ours are found an empty exchequer, luxurious habits, exhausted resources, broken spirits, a raw and insubordinate soldiery, and greedy quarrels; there is no regard for discipline, license runs riot, the men indulge in drunkenness and debauchery, and worst of all, the enemy are accustomed to victory, we to defeat. Can we doubt what the result must be? The only obstacle is Persia, whose position on his rear forces the invader to take precautions. The fear of Persia gives us a respite, but it is only for a time.

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>>2861114
No distinction is attached to birth among the Turks; the deference to be paid to a man is measured by the position he holds in the public service. There is no fighting for precedence; a man's place is marked out by the duties he discharges. In making his appointments the Sultan pays no regard to any pretensions on the score of wealth or rank, nor does he take into consideration recommendations or popularity, he considers each case on its own merits, and examines carefully into the character, ability, and disposition of the man whose promotion is in question. It is by merit that men rise in the service, a system which ensures that posts should only be assigned to the competent. Each man in Turkey carries in his own hand his ancestry and his position in life, which he may make or mar as he will. Those who receive the highest offices from the Sultan are for the most part the sons of shepherds or herdsmen, and so far from being ashamed of their parentage, they actually glory in it, and consider it a matter of boasting that they owe nothing to the accident of birth; for they do not believe that high qualities are either natural or hereditary, nor do they think that they can be handed down from father to son, but that they are partly the gift of' God, and partly the result of good training, great industry, and unwearied zeal; arguing that high qualities do not descend from a father to his son or heir, any more than a talent for music, mathematics, or the like; and that the mind does not derive its origin from the father, so that the son should necessarily be like the father in character, our emanates from heaven, and is thence infused into the human body. Among the Turks, therefore, honours, high posts, and judgeships are the rewards of great ability and good service. If a man be dishonest, or lazy, or careless, he remains at the bottom of the ladder, an object of contempt; for such qualities there are no honours in Turkey!

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>>2861118
This is the reason that they are successful in their undertakings, that they lord it over others, and are daily extending the bounds of their empire. These are not our ideas, with us there is no opening left for merit; birth is the standard for everything; the prestige of birth is the sole key to advancement in the public service.

The Life and Letters of Ogier Ghiselin de Busbecq, vol. I (London: Kegan Paul, 1881)

Great thread

>>2853299
There are no >>2853299
arguments against Nietzsche. Only autist sperging.

>>2860085
Modern (i.e. Hepburn) romaji was only developed at the very end of the 19th century.

more of these thread

>>2862184
Yep, I wondered about that. Sometimes I forget that things that seem ridiculous today could be normal centuries ago.

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>>2861124
How low we have fallen.
Ataturk was our second chance but half the country is ok with throwing that away as long as the economy is doing 'well'.

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>>2846050

Neitzeche never had the responsibility of holding power; and he railed against a social and religious system that minimizes social tension and promotes peace.

>The "Will to Power" is the glorification of conflict and bloodshed.

>>2854468
Good read. Where to find more like this? 1st person historical PoV is quite rare.

>>2863028
erdogan isnt even that bad desu.

>>2863183
The particular source (Jan Chryzostom Pasek's memoirs) I've been posting fragments of is pretty long, but it's online in its entirety:

https://books.google.com/books?id=UXOyzpp6YJoC

Pasek himself is pretty iconic because he was a petty nobleman and gave a very "ground-level" view of things, was happy to share his opinions and views on many topics, and he happened to live in an interesting period (wars with Sweden, Muscowy, the Ottoman Empire, the expedition to Denmark he took part in...)

The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was big on memoirs/diaries in general so there's quite a few of those around but few have been translated to English; I only know of this one. There are also many interesting letter collections. For example there's a huge body of correspondence between King Jan Sobieski and his wife. They were very close and he wrote her every few days while on campaign, relating events in minute detail. I've only seen one of those letters translated into English and it was an abridged version. I've half a mind to translate some of them myself but it's going very slowly.

Outside the PLC I'm not that sure about specific works (except for the obvious like Marco Polo or Laurence Sterne) but there's bound to be many similar sources.

>>2846066
>>2853948
>But did European philosophers speak well of their interactions with the more civilized Arabic/Islamic world back then?

>early greeks fantasized about babylon, the basicly saw them as the only other civilized people around. thats pre-islamic tho

>>2863183
>Good read. Where to find more like this? 1st person historical PoV is quite rare.


>>2863468
>Outside the PLC I'm not that sure about specific works (except for the obvious like Marco Polo or Laurence Sterne) but there's bound to be many similar sources.

Baburname is pretty good read. Babur, the founder of the Mughal empire, was a descendant of Timur and Genghis Khan, a strategic genius and a well-educated erudite and poet.

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>>2846014


> Cyrus pulled up his horse and bade Xenophon tell everybody that the sacrificial victims and omens were all favorable. While saying this he heard a noise running through the ranks, and asked what the noise was. Xenophon replied that the watchword was now passing along for the second time.1 And Cyrus wondered who had given it out, and asked what the watchword was. Xenophon replied “Zeus Savior and Victory.” And upon hearing this Cyrus said, “Well, I accept it, and so let it be.” After he had said these words he rode back to his own position.

>>2846146
His father was a pastor

>>2864037
So what?

>>2846761
>>2850282
Get real, Ping Long Ling.

>>2865310
Tang and Song dynasties were the high watermark of Chinese civilization and nothing has really been the same since they got MONGOL'd

>>2846171
Was he catholic?

>>2866062
Lutheran

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>>2846743
>>2865310

Yea, the white guy is right, Europe was certainly more advanced then the Sung dynasty at the time.

Just look at this medieval painting from Europe... behold and marvel!
Haha i bet you can't show me a better looking one from China!

>>2847252
Second.jpg

>>2850884
As someone has already said the word for the african continent was Libya back then. Africa was just the region where Carthage was located.

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Right side of the lion:

ASMUDR : HJU : RUNAR : ÞISAR : ÞAIR : ISKIR : AUK: ÞURLIFR : ÞURÞR : AUK : IVAR : AT : BON : HARADS : HAFA : ÞUAT : GRIKIAR : UF : HUGSAÞU : AUK : BANAÞU :
>Asmund cut these runes with Asgeir and Thorleif, Thord and Ivar, at the request of Harold the Tall, though the Greeks considered about and forbade it.

Left side of the lion:

HAKUN : VAN: ÞIR : ULFR : AUK : ASMUDR : AUK : AURN : HAFN : ÞESA : ÞIR : MEN : LAGÞU : A : UK : HARADR : HAFI : UF IABUTA : UPRARSTAR : VEGNA : GRIKIAÞIÞS : VARÞ : DALKR : NAUÞUGR : I : FIARI : LAÞUM : EGIL : VAR : I : FARU : MIÞ : RAGNARR : TIL : RUMANIU . . . . AUK : ARMENIU :
>Hakon with Ulf and Asmund and Örn conquered this port. These men and Harold Hafi imposed a heavy fine on account of the revolt of the Greek people. Dalk is detained captive in far lands. Egil is gone on an expedition with Ragnar into Romania and Armenia.

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>>2846014
I want documentaries, give me documentaries of this

Post more stuff.

>>2846186
Dude what the fuck is going on here, you are just smashing different periods together and acting like they happened at the same time

>>2856304
I'll bet you someone told him that tigers and lions will kill you on the road if you travel alone so that he'd pay them for an escort

>>2858340
watashi no hobakurafuto wa unagi de ippai desu

>>2870513
domo arigato

>>2857541
they have a high rate of neanderthal DNA, just like the Arabs and Semites.

>>2863557
What's the context of this? I know the story of The Warrio-I mean the Anabasis but what specifically did he meme by this? Were the soldiers going *cough-BULLSHIT* and Xenophon was having a giggle at Cyrus's expense or something?

>>2861111
>The rest of the army is badly off, unless they have provided some supplies at their own expense

That's interesting. The Sultan's logistical corps doesn't account for the majority of the army but only the royal guard. I imagine this feudalistic line of thinking is what doomed the Ottomans in the end, while Europe moved ahead with centralization.

>>2873729
Early Modern logistics can be interesting in general.

During the Vienna campaign at the start of the Great Turkish War the Polish king rushed to relieve Vienna with minimal provisions because the Pope promised to fund supplies via Austrian intermediaries.

After the battle no logistic support for the Poles materialised (the Pope did send the promised money but the Austrians just used it for themselves) which led to a rather desperate situation on their side. They ended up parked a few miles from the city (they couldn't even approach it without being shot at) with few supplies and while the Austrians wanted to be careful and gather their forces, Sobieski wanted to charge into Ottoman territory ASAP to be able to survive by looting; he eventually did this.

This coupled with the insulting reception Sobieski and his troops got from the autistic Emperor soon after the battle painted a grim picture. It's not really appreciated enough how close Vienna came to being Fourth Crusaded by the Poles.

>>2867699
Are these the Varangians?

>>2853758
lol

>>2863528
>strategic genius
>he literally loses a battle because some diviner tells him that his stone made it rain and will let him win, and so he attacks

Don't get me wrong, he was a smart man, learned from his experiences, but I wouldn't go as far to call him a genius. He just applied then-modern tactics and equipment in a comparably backwards region.

>>2854437
>>2854464
>>2854466
Bit rich for him to call Germans cruel when polish "nobles" just murder people for no reason

>>2847070
>they are not like the women in your country
BTFO

>>2847050
>twenty thousand dirhams
these men are pawns!

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>>2846186
>Holy Roman Empire

>>2878456
The HRE was Holy, Roman, and an Empire during Charlemagne's reign.Voltaire was nothing but a french cuck who was jealous of the Krauts.

>>2876712
Almost surely would have been, the graffiti listed there was written sometime in the 11th century.