Romans speaking Latin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7senWR91kQA

another example, you really get a feel for how wonderful a language it was

Hmm I never saw passion of the Christ I think I am going to go watch it now. Thanks op.

>>2842085
It's actually one of my favorite historical films due to the Aramaic, Greek and Latin; also the depiction of Romans and Jews is pretty accurate.

>>2842085
man youre on his and havent seen the blockbuster that includes revived aramaic cmon

>>2842093
>Historical

>>2842162
Unless you're being really autistic about what history is, then, yes, it is history. History is based on the historical record of events, not what is necessarily what did happen. The historical record is far from perfect. Taking a secular viewpoint, saying that the Crucifixion of Christ isn't historical because we don't know if He was really God and was resurrected is like saying the second Persian invasion of Greece isn't historical because it's impossible for it to have happened in the way that the contemporary histories describe it.

>>2842070
What kind of armor are the soldiers supposed to wear? Some sort of bullshit leather segmentata?

The Latin used in Passion of the Christ is inaccurate. They use the Ecclesiastical pronunciation, but the Romans used the classical pronunciation.

>>2842070
Really mad that I can only understeand lose words without the subtitles

>>2842366
same

think if slowed it down I'd get more of it, but I'm only understanding the basic shit

>>2842324
and they would have spoken greek in the eastern part of the empire

That armor ugh.

>>2842085
Don't. It's an anti-semetic film.

>>2843039
The average Roman soldier would NOT have spoken Greek, unless they themselves were Greeks.

Also Pilate was an equestrian and not part of the aristocracy, so he would not have been raised as one. We also need to consider that he lived post-Virgil. Roman literature and culture was taking off during this period, and aristocratic Greek culture was being sidelined as unpatriotic. So for these reasons we can assume that Pilate did not in fact speak Greek.

>>2843098
Don't tripfag.

>>2842070
Classicist here, the Latin in this movie is bretty gud but with several glaring flaws to anyone who has studied the language. In short pronunciation is incorrect and leans heavily towards modern Italian and the grammar is more medieval than classical.

>>2842201
Yes I love reading historical sources about how Jesus was whipped with a cat o' nine tails while the soldiers joked about ass-fucking and sucking one's own dick

>>2842162
Of course man why would I believe in JC, becomes adored by many but then betrayed by his favourite friend, I stopped believing in Julius Caesar as soon as I hit 18, and it was the most euphoric moment of my life

>>2842070
>you were crazy to buy this desk
>I fuck you in the ass
TRVE ROMANS

>>2843474
Passion of the Christ was based on medieval Germany folk theater, overlaid with Mel Gibson's particular personal weird ideas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRTh3qqZLkQ&t=803s
It has been posted here before and it use classical Latin pronunciation. Looks pretty good.

>>2842070
>all Roman soldiers are white

Stupid eurocentrism

>>2843562
Neat!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvS8cvapdMk
Pretty good, even if they slip up a couple of times and use the soft G.

>>2843571
That's accurate though

>>2842070

they should of taked the cast and sent them on a week payed vacation in central italy before the actual shooting

thene theya wodla sena deta latini theya speka parlannoo modo altroche de sta coza e a ee aaa vafancullo...oAOA

also gesticulation, as in lots of it

>inb4 implying same population was same and spoke same way 2000 years ago - no, but the movie version is foken autistic

>>2843713
No

>>2843729

its like maybe 10% innacurate

maybe gibson just didnt bother to show us a large enough sample cause his racist

besides, most legionares in palestine were from europe and anatolia, so basicaly...

>>2842201
what evidence is there that Jesus actually existed do have any contemporary sources discussing him?. All evidence of him has been written by Christians sometimes centuries after his supposed death

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/12/18/did-historical-jesus-exist-the-traditional-evidence-doesnt-hold-up/?utm_term=.f38a24752686

You guys are forgetting the first (and for years the only) movie completely in Latin: Sebastiane. It's the story of the Roman soldier and Catholic saint Sebastian.

The movie is gay as fuck though.

>>2843562
I always think it's funny how you can tell a historical film is low budget by how clean everything is. Guess there's an art to making things dirty in *just* the right way

>>2843724
Is it possible the Italians have degenerated since the roman times?

Hollywood portrays them as intelligent, diplomatic, soft spoken people. Italians are none of these things.

If we go by Caligula (movie) they are all cocksuckers.

Which is it??

>>2843823
Think of a stereotypical American from the 1950s

Now think of the stereotypical American from today

Yes, people change

>>2843793
https://youtu.be/rlqAeSjagSs

Cave vinculum

>>2843562
Imperator by Konrad Lecki
dontmindme just writing it out for when I copy paste this thread

>>2843140
roman soldiers would have spoken latin among themselves but the language of administration was greek and most judaeans would not have spoken any latin, but the educated among them would have known greek.
the passion of the christ shows jesus conversing with pilate in latin which is almost certainly inaccurate. if they actually spoke to each other at all, they would have done it in greek, since there is a good chance that jesus spoke greek but no chance that he would've spoken latin. if pilate really didn't know greek (which i doubt, because he was a member of the administrative class) then they would have used a translator to speak to each other

>>2843777
>Despite a ton of people saying that there was an individual named Jesus of Nazareth a few decades after his death, there probably wasn't an individual named Jesus of Nazareth because 1) he wasn't a trending topic on first century Aramaic Facebook and 2) most of the people who talked about Jesus liked him A LOT.
This article is silly. It's like saying Hezekiah didn't exist because there are only biblical sources written about him.

>>2842079
That was really good until he said Caesar with a soft 'c'.

>>2843793
>>2843846
Holy shit that clip was amazing.

>>2842070

I can't believe this movie killed people

>>2844281
>I can't believe this movie killed people

How did it kill people?

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>>2843892
wow, they really loved Greece

>>2843892
Proof;

Evidence;;;;

>>2842085
>oh look jesus is stumbling, I sure hope he doesn't dramatically fall again

>>2843729
YES. Besides plane old italics and Greeks you had more celts and Germanics in the legion than Kangz and Azns, Tyrone.

>>2843966
>only biblical sources written
well if your a christfag who believes the bible is a non biased source that only speaks truth there really isnt anything to discuss is there?


but it makes perfect sense that early Christians might create an mythological figure around their new religion.His life shares many mythological themes with greek and near east mythology
it makes a lot of sense that they might create a unifying figure.

>>2843571
>>2843713
>>2843729
>>2843737
>>2844409
wasn't it common practice for the Romans to garrison a province with soldiers from another province so they wouldn't have any sympathy for the locals if there was a revolt or rebellion?

>>2844369
what kind of evidence do you expect?

administrative documents were translated from latin to greek in the eastern part of the empire even in classical times and inscriptions there are mostly bilingual.

Greek was established in the middle east since Alexander the Great, Latin came much later and didn't have the time to displace established linguae francae, nor did the romans necessarily want to impose it.

>>2844299
Facebook meming about people having heart attacks because of muh violence, such savagery.

>>2842070
While not latin, the television series Spartacus uses English with the grammatical form of Latin, one time one of my friend's uni teachers gave them as an assignment to watch Spartacus for them to see the syntaxis used in Latin language

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>>2844450
>Roman Scholar Tacitus mentions Jesus and his crucifixion by Pontius Pilate and how much he hates Christians in "Annals"
> Jewish scholar Josephus mentions Jesus's brother James being stoned.
>Physical evidence of Pontius Pilate being the military governor of Judea around the time period of Jesus's death exists

There's less evidence for Alexander the Great and yet you push this debunked Jesus myth theory just because you don't like Christians. I'm not even a Christfag and I can see that Jesus was a historical figure.

>>2845962
uhm, no

just.. no...

>>2842085
it's an amazing film except for the fact that too much of the film is about jesus getting tortured which i feel doesn't add a lot of meaning to the film and it could have been better if they focused on other aspects of the story.

>>2846333
No, he's right. Jesus was a historical person.

You're fucking reddit youtube educated cancer. Get the fuck out.

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>>2842085
It is a based film directed by St. Gibson himself.

>>2845962
>>2847126
>Tacitus AD 56 – c. AD 120
>Pontius Pilate being the military governor
>James being stoned.
Tacitus is not a contemporary source for the event and none of these points prove and existence of Jesus. Alexander the great has multiple contemporary sources coins minted during his lifetime, and over 20 cities founded in his name during his reign.This is in stark contrast to Jesus...

We have No first century secular evidence and why? why is there such a contrast between christian narrative and early Christians compared to pagans outside of christian writing there are no birth records, no trial transcripts, no death certificates; there are no expressions of interest, no heated slanders, no passing comments – nothing. In entire first century AD – there is not so much as a single reference to Jesus in any non-Christian, non-Jewish source of any kind. We do have a large number of documents from the time – the writings of poets, philosophers, historians, scientists, and government officials, we have a large collection of surviving inscriptions on stone and private letters and legal documents on papyrus. In none of this vast array of surviving writings is Jesus’ name ever mentioned.


the excuse "oh well hes from humble origins you cant expect evidence" is frankly not good enough

>>2848826
>the excuse "oh well hes from humble origins you cant expect evidence" is frankly not good enough

Uh why not? Wasn't it true that during the time Jesus wouldn't have been a very notable figure. I mean even using the Gospel as a source it's clear that setting aside the fantastical elements he wasn't very notable. He had a pretty small group of followers and offended some local bureaucrats. He was killed like a common criminal. Why would anyone go out of their way to make note of someone so uninteresting?

>>2848826

Why would contemporary poets, scientists, or historians write about this random small time preacher walking around Judea?

>>2848918
then why believe in him if there is no evidence? was Jason and the Argonauts real? was Troy real? what about Atlantis? most people would not lose sleep over these events being fictional or at least in part

>>2848928
with christian and Jewish writers discuss a man killed by the authorities supposedly rising from the dead with a growing religion around him you think contemporary people have nothing to say.... for a whole century.... nothing on this religion's rise and its foundation

>>2848975
Your talking about a religious figure my man. Most people don't need any evidence. As to why I believe he was real, I just don't see the point in making up someone like him out of whole cloth. An unimportant dude who is popularized after his death. I mean I don't see why you would go to such great lengths to say he didn't exist besides sticking it to Christfags. Which I'm not interested in. And given that there's some evidence of his existence (even if it's not contemporary) I'd say it's more disingenuous to say he definitely didn't exist rather than saying he definitely did.

>>2842070
Why are they so evil tho?

>>2842070
>leather segmentata

Disgusting

>>2848975
Troy was a real city that was conquered

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>>2849006
if you firmly believe there was a Jesus for religious reasons there was never going to be a real discussion.But i dont believe most people are in this category on this board

From a purely historical point i dont believe writing written by Christians promoting their religion counts as evidence.It makes sense they may create this mythical figure We know early Christians lied for example about being fed to lions.


i see no evidence of this figure in history.That doesn't mean im dismissing the idea that a historical figure could have existed or at least based in part but there's no evidence so far ......and we've had 2 millennia....

>>2849069
Is that something real? Like a city guard uniform or filmmakers just too cheap to get metal props?

>>2849240
we have no examples of Romans wearing just leather as protection. also why would have segmented leather ? metal doesn't bed so you segment it around your body but leather bends.

>>2849106
>but there's no evidence so far
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sources_for_the_historicity_of_Jesus

its funny because it seems like its only Americans who deny the historical Jesus, why do you people have such a grudge against Christianity
>daddy oppressed me with his Christianity ;^( wahh wahh
>muh "In God we trust" propaganda wah wahh

The existence of Jesus is as historical factual as it can be and is denied by no credible historian.

You're currently swimming in the same conspiracy theory pool as the flat earthers, you and them garner about as much respect.

And yes this comes from a guy who have never been in Church and do not know a single Christian person, never met one, don't know anyone who knows anyone who is a Christian.

>>2849327
>only Americans who deny the historical Jesus
i get that impression that you've never met a christian because their one the most christian counties on earth in fact its fanatic American Christians who still go to these historical sites trying to find evidence of the bible

The idea that a religious figure who supposedly raised from the dead and preformed miracles may be in part or based fully on myth is not such a ridiculous notion as flat earth where you would have to reject all modern physics.If you have no religious feeling then why are so threatened by his existence being questioned ?

http://www.alternet.org/belief/5-reasons-suspect-jesus-never-existed

https://www.amazon.com/Nailed-Christian-Myths-Jesus-Existed/dp/0557709911

Of the sources you've presented I find Tacitus the best so far however Tacitus was born 25 years after Jesus death furthermore he does not reveal the source of his information.If he is citing from official sources where are they? The Romans should have records of him which would have been of extreme value to later roman Christians

>>2842070
Such a shit retarded scene.

>Roman helmets are clearly fucking leather
>The armour is clearly leather too
>highly unlikely they'd be wearing segmentata armour just to execute some petty jew
>they're all insulting and mocking jesus like he's some big criminal and not just another criminal to be strung up like they do every day
>yellow rotten teeth in a time pre modern sugar and sweet foods
>fat roman soldiers

>>2842070
>>2842079
>hard V
>C as CH
>in early imperial times

>>2850170
this is the only part that triggered me

>>2848826
>>2848975
>>2849106
>>2850027

The most compelling reason why your skepticism toward Jesus' historicity is unfounded is that the Jews never denied his existence and wrote about him as though he was a historical person. The Jews hated the church and wanted to stamp out Christianity so you can bet if Jesus was only a legend the Jews would have used that to attack the church but they never did. The fact that even Christ's enemies acknowledged his existence should be very persuasive to anyone who doesn't have an ideological axe to grind.

>>2850027
>Americans

See more edgy atheist euros spouting this crap t.bh

>>2850342
best shit talk him a century later through right? every person in western academia has written about him as a historical person on the foundation of christian and Jewish teaching but what foundation is that?.... religious teaching. however Islam gives a different account of his life in fact a conflicting view so which is true?
>>2850346
>its only Americans who deny the historical Jesus
>edgy atheist euros spouting this crap

>>2846390
>It would be better if Passion of the Christ wasn't about the passion of the Christ
Maybe you should start with The Little Drummer Boy and work your way up.

>>2843724
They hired Italian actors for Romans role. The guy who whipped Jesus is an Italian playwright or something.

>>2850672
what are you rambling about? if jesus never existed the jews would have known about it and they would have used this fact to crush the church at its inception. its hilarious to me that people who deny jesus' existence try to act like theyre being rational but their entire theory depends on the existence of a conspiracy so convoluted that it would make alex jones blush.

>>2850672
I mean why waste your time and energy shit-talking this random-ass goat-fucker peasant that has done literally nothing of worth as far as you are concerned.

Of course they would only start shit talking him when christianity was starting to become big.

And it's not that reasonable to expect us having the one specific documentation about an execution among many on some random day on one of the empire's backwater provinces that has 100 like these every single god danm day, nobody really gave a major fuck about this at the time.

>>2848975
>was Troy real?
Troy turned out to be real
no one expected that one kek

>>2851302
>the point


>your head

He's complaining about there being too much "Jesus getting beaten up by Wops and yelled at by Jews" you moron, not there being too much Jesus.

>>2842070
>>2842079
shitty pronunciation, bad usages, totally unidiomatic, obviously word-for-word translation from english, butchered by italians who obviously just see it as olde italiane. 2/10.

>>2852127
are you an american? we dont even know what ancient latin sounds like

>>2852856
yes i am and yes we do. romans wrote elaborately detailed guides to correct latin pronunciation, with details that have been painstakingly cross-checked through borrowings.

>>2842324
The debate is still open - classical pronunciation is not the accepted standard. We will never know what spoken Latin was actually like

>>2851439
how would the Jews know any better than the Christians centuries later?
>>2851561
but they did later didn't they ? we had later roman emperors making pilgrims to the holy land to find artifacts. we had endless Christian scholars search for information and nothing.... it really not that hard of a stretch to think he might not of existed.

whats funny is i dont even believe this as Ive said multiple times i think the story is probably based on a historical man however i could see the argument that he could be purely mythology but you self professed non Christians are having a sperg fit at the very notion a magic wizard who raised from the dead ....may not have been real at all.....

>>2853386
sauce?

>>2854231
>but they did later didn't they ?

Yeah like 400 years later we had a couple of emperors do that, but that whole "the empire is collapsing in on itself and we're kind of screwed here" meant they couldn't do as much searching and record keeping as the crusaders, but by that point a whole millennium had passed.

Also i'm not the guy you were arguing with :^) And although it is entirely possible Christ wasn't real, just like it is entirely possible he was the incarnation of the one true god, I think we have more reasons to believe he did exists.

>>2852127
did he say Caesar's name in Ecclesiastical Latin pronunciation?

>>2842324
They're trilling their r's and I don't think they're pronouncing 'c' as 'ch'?

>>2854231
>we had later roman emperors making pilgrims to the holy land to find artifacts. we had endless Christian scholars search for information and nothing.... it really not that hard of a stretch to think he might not of existed.

Some did turn up artifacts, or at least claimed they did (obviously we can discuss all day whether they were fabricated, but they didn't find 'nothing'). You could apparently according to a nun in the 380s visit the true cross, the crown of thorns, the pillar christ was scourged at, and the lance that pierced his side. Empress Helena went around and brought back a bunch of stuff, part of the true cross included, which were later lost with the fall of the Byzantine empire.

>>2856019
>claimed they did
whats frustrating is its all "This the cup that he drank from!....and this is the chair Jesus sat on!..."

>>2853415
No. While there are still quibbles over details, we have a pretty good idea of what Latin sounded like because, among other things, the Romans themselves discussed it, not to even mention loanwords, evidence from historical/comparative linguistics, and so on. See >>2853386 or just read Vox Latina if you want all the evidence laid out for you.

>>2843846
What the fuck is this