Can video games be art?

Bioshock

>>2841685
Yeah but video game writing is garbage

>>2841685
Bloodborne

Deadly Premonition

>>2841724
>>2841711
>>2841689
Can you tell me why you consider those art?

>>2841711
Alway thought the souls games did a neat thing of making the gameplay a part of the story. The tone of "it's hard and hopeless, but you gotta push through it" is reinforced by all the gameplay

The original Deus Ex made me think a lot about a variety of subjects I normally never would, and that is one of the most commonly cited purposes of art, so I suppose it was.

>>2841685
Unironically Gta IV

There's nothing that truly disqualifies them as art and there is a lot of precedent set by historical examples of art production that have parallels in video game production.

>>2841685
It can be art just not art that I like.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art
>Art is a diverse range of human activities in creating visual, auditory or performing artifacts (artworks), expressing the author's imaginative or technical skill, intended to be appreciated for their beauty or emotional power
Sounds like art to me

>>2841769
That's a pretty bad definition of art honestly.

>>2841773
I agree, but I think under most definitions video games can still be classified as art.

>>2841724
true avant garde art

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A lot of video games are just supposed to give you a challenge, not what I would consider art. Others though definitely are.

>>2841685
aoe II custom map maker is artwork

>>2841685
M O R R O W I N D

>>2841685
Art is completely subjective, so yes. Note that because they can be art, doesn't mean video games necessarily ARE art.

Spec Ops:The Line.
A lot of the more narrative driven walking simulators I guess.

Sure. As an example, although it's a bit overused, Photopia. It's pretty crude but if a short story is an art then this can be one as well. Also older titles like Trinity and A Mind Forever Voyaging.

Yeah I do.
A lot of video games are mass produced rubbish, modern day circuses for the masses, but a lot of commissioned art is exactly the same way endless pieces of rubbish made cheaply so some lower middle-class family can have a nice, meaningless picture hanging in their bedroom.

Art is entirely meaningless term and just about anything can be art.
When autistic snobs say "videogames can't be art" they usually mean "high culture" but even that is pretty muddy since low culture elements often make their way into high culture

>>2841685
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7VJ4lP-05A

Still, >>>/v/

>>2843277
>just about anything can be art
That's wrong. Anyone who claims art is subjective doesn't know shit about art.

Dwarf fortress is art because of it's scope.

>>2843666
Then why is shit smeared piss canvas with menstrual blood splatters art?

>>2841685
art is subjective, anything can be art

>>2841748
The story was great, i don't know why people hate it (i know the driving fucking sucked)

>>2843666
Of course art is subjective you idiot, anything can be art as long as people see it as art. A fucking toilet seat on a stool can be art.

I wish they will never be art, because then the amount of annoying hipsters making dumb walking simulators would only magnify.

what does this have to do with history or humanities?

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>>2841685
>ITT retards thinking Art is objective.

>Anything can be art if you think it is! Just close your eyes and wish really hard!

There are 5 games that I would consider art
>Dwarf Fortress
>Dishonored
>Fallout New Vegas
>Oblivion and Morrowind
The rest are in that limbo where most television and movies hang where I guess you can call them art but in all actuality they're not really artistic in any sense of the word.
That doesn't mean these are my favorite games or anything, in fact I play Skyrim much more than Oblivion or Morrowind, but they are more artistic than that game.

>>2841685
Red Dead Redemption
Last of Us

everything else is for edgy teenagers

>>2844010
As an addendum, Red Dead Redemption also is art

>>2841685
Vidya can contain art. Storytelling is now one of the most important elements in vidya these days. Starcraft 1, for example, had some of the best plot I've ever seen, whereas SC2 was a fucking huge disappointment.
>>2841689

>Video games can be art?
Yes
>Example
Valiant Hearts

Why the fuck is this for us to answer?

Anyway, yes.

>>2843715
>i don't know why people hate it
Maybe in /v/, but most of people think it was better than Gta V.

Legend of zelda : majora's mask

yes, just look at abzu and journey.

>>2841689
Bioshock may be the worst written videogame ever made.
But bioshock ifninite was spectacular

Also its all art, no different than what kindergartners do in class or what Beethoven composed.

&humanities was a mistake.

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Yes

>>2844010
>Fallout NV
>not Fallout 1 or 2
Check out this pleb

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yes.

>>2841685
Art is not defined by its medium, if you manage to make your audience reflect on some element of the human experience in a creative fashion by farting in morse code its, by definition, art. Nevertheless, videogames in particular tend
to demand a lot of investment from their audience so they opt for spectacle over message, (not to mention the amount of resources it takes to make a videogame make it hard to experiment) so while they can a vehicle for art, nearly all videogames aend up as vain entertainment for children and adults with poor emotional development. Theres a couple of themthat manage to intertwine all the elements of the medium (audio, visuals, gameplay, story, etc) to communicate something of value and those are metal gear solid and braid.

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>>2841685

No, interactive things are not art because everyone will have a different experience that makes it impossible to truly objectively judge it for what it is.

>>2845757
Why's the writer so obsessed with abortions

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I feel like I might have the wrong perspective on video games, because it seems like most actual productive adults think they're hot garbage.

>>2845780
So nothing is art then.

I don't think there are really any video games comparable to the great works of music, literature, sculpture or painting, but sure they're 'art'.

>>2845813
>most actual productive adults think they're hot garbage
Most actual productive adults think all art is hot garbage except when it makes them money.

By the way, the average age of game players is 31 and has been around there for a very long time.

More like a public control of the people by the Elites.

The Stanley Parable

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>>2841685

watch this documentary

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>>2845995
Please stop posting.

>>2843715
The legitimately serious tone was bogged down by slow developments.

All the same, the acting for Niko is one of the most sincere and emotionally resonant performances of the last decade.

>itt: people confuse the word "art" with "good"

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If music, imagery, writing, and acting are considered artistic disciplines, then there is no reason for video games to be dismissed as such since they implement all of them together.

The debate is where does a game cross the line from entertainment to art, Something which is easily accepted in regards to movies.

>>2846138
Why would anyone ever call something bad art?

>>2841685
From OP's pic I can mention that moment in Red Dead Redemption where you are fleeing to Mexico and that beautiful song starts playing.

>>2845990
Was gonna mention this one myself. Shit really made me think about videogames.

>>2843666
Art doesn't denote a mind-independent natural kind in the universe so of course it's subjective you retard.

There's no such thing as art. It's a recent meme.

>>2841748
Absolutely. Of every single video game I've played, GTA IV stuck with me the most. Characters, plot, and pretty much everything that doesn't involve driving was brilliantly executed.

art doesnt mean fine art.
the creative efforts that go into it make it art the same way it makes movies art. That doesn't mean they're particularly good art though. Most video games have really awful writing because writing isn't a priority, gameplay is.

>>2848251
>Most video games have really awful writing because writing isn't a priority, gameplay is.
Which actually makes the writing in most of them good, because games don't NEED better writing - better writing actually weighs them down negatively, in most cases.

>>2841685
The fact that there is a fucking toilet laying on it's side in an art gallery somewhere is proof that anything can be "art".

Art is subjective. To some, it absolutely is art. To others, it can never be art due to it's very nature.

But objectively speaking, if it's art to someone, then logically, it is art. Because you will never ...and I mean never, be able to get everyone to agree on the validity of art.

>>2841748
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNt2fTJ7gZg

>>2848479
shifting focus on writing at the expense of gameplay is usually recipe for disaster, yeah.

I just mean that a lot of games bring as a cool idea with a few set pieces, and a writer is expected to connect them and have them make sense. You're right that they generally only have as much writing as they need but I don't think that's always a good thing.

>>2848504
It's bad for RPGs, not so important in other genres like action or RTS. For example the story in Devil May Cry is not great but absolutely works in favor of taking the player through a wildly imaginative world, which is kind of all story's function is in games anyway, a justification to be able to do this.

>>2841685
Art is an expression, mainly creative expression.

Not all video games are creative expressions. Games like endless mario/zelda/pokemon/sports/etc are not art. Those are purely commercial products means to make others buy and get you addicted.

Real creative works are ones like Yume Nikki, Persona 5, Bloodborne, Katamari, Touhou, etc

These games fall deep into creative work more so than pure cash grab.

>>2848522
I think campiness is a quality of it's own.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ87NTbhS_M

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>>2841685
I'd argue that they have the potential to be the most expressive art, but that reaching that potential is equally difficult.

That aside though, I think that video games serve a greater purpose as a means of stimulating one's interest in a subject. Through playing a direct role in the progress of the game, the player may garner an interest in that which they may not have otherwise.

Shadow of the Colossus.
I'd also consider firsts of a genre art like DOOM or Guitar Hero, because creation of a genre usually implies quite a bit of creativity.

I also really love Mirror's Edge.

>>2841685
Yes. It's a creative medium, of course it can be art.

But in the same way most blockbuster movies aren't art, most video games aren't art either. Commercialization can make the focus shift from art to bottom lines. Games that can overcome this and still at least deliver fantastic writing and other creative facets are amazing in my book. To this day, I unironically believe that Metal Gear Rising is one of the most well-written games I've played within the past few years.

Also this anon gets it right: >>2843197 The Line is art that exists to critique and point out the hypocrisies of the very medium it exists in, and presents itself like a typical military shooter to really sell it. It's genius.

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