So what really happened in Auschwitz?

>>2840550
Well, for starters, the Holocaust was a hell of a lot more than just Auschwitz.

But if you're looking into cremation capacity, you don't need to look much further than this.

https://archive.org/stream/BodyDisposalAtAuschwitzTheEndOfHolocaustDenial/BDA_djvu.txt

tl;dr, Nazis own documentation cites an ability to incinerate 4756 bodies a day come the middle of 1943. The camp started to evacuate in late december of 1944, and was fully finished in the close of January 1945. That gives roughly a year and a half of "full capacity", which gives a crematory capacity of about 2.6 million for that time period, even if they're not supplemented by outdoor burning or other body disposal methods which they did occasionally use. That's well, well higher than the 1.1-1.3 million estimate for Auschwitz's death total.

>>2840563
wew, thats a long read. I'll give that a try. looks interesting from the first few paragraphs. thanks!

And guys, if you want to join the discord, we could use more smart people: https://discord.gg/RQEKBrU

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>>2840550
>he deniers say theres no way it was 6 mil cause not enough (fast) ovens

Because deniers are blatantly dishonest. No historian or anyone has ever claimed 6 million were gassed, in fact most of the killings were done by lining them up and shooting or going through villages killing everyone they can find.

>>2840550
Holocaust denialists are such a joke.

>>2840550
A few questions to ponder OP

How plausible is it the allied governments trained and deployed thousands of staff to axis controlled territory during the last year of the war create and plant thousands of false documents, faked photographs, forged diary entries in the correct places so that they would be discovered by liberating allied personnel without their scheme being discovered and exposed over the past 70+ years?

If the Jews were evacuated "to the East" rather than being exterminated in Poland, what happened to them? Why have so many family members of those "evacuated" never heard from their loved ones again? Wouldn't they try to make some contact in the past 70+ years?

Why would Jews inflate the number of holocaust victims when reparations paid by West Germany after the war were based on the number of survivors and not the number killed?

>>2840550
6 million was executions in total not just Auschwitz. Also most executions were through "sardine-packing" not death camps. Most people who died in the camps died of typhus but the Nazis still did gas and burn people and also made them to work as slaves.

>>2840550
>all of the jews who died in the Holocaust died at Auschwitz
>all of the jews who died in the holocaust were gassed in death camps

No actual history of the Holocaust claims this because it's not fucking true.
educate yourself.

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>>2840550
The "crematoriums couldnt handle the loads" meme is just a retarded argument

order form by the manufacturers in pic related demonstrates that they could have burnt a million bodies per year

>>2842391
a million bodies over 3 years*

>>2842180
I don't know why OP thinks we would even want to be a part of their shit Discord

>>2842391
here is the translation:

TOPF To J.A. TOPF UND SÖHNE Erfurt, September 8, 1942

Department D IV

Our Mark: D IV/Prf./hes
In Matters of: Reichsführer SS, Berlin-Lichterfelde-West.
Concerning: Krematorium-Auschwitz.

Confidential! Secret!

8.9.42 Herr Obersturmführer Krone calls to say that he was
summoned to meet with Brigadeführer Kämmer and
to report on his inspection of the crematorium in Auschwitz,
whence he had returned yesterday. He could make nothing
of the facilities at Auschwitz and wanted therefore to inform
himself on how many muffles are in operation there at this
time and how many ovens with muffles we are building there
and are still to be delivered.

I told him that at this time 3 double-muffle
ovens are in operation, with a capacity of
250 per day. Further, currently under
construction are 5 triple muffle ovens


with a daily capacity of 800. Today and in the next few
days, 2 eight-muffle ovens, each with a daily capacity
of 800, will come on consignment, redirected from Mogilew.

Mr K said that this number of muffles is not yet sufficient;
we should deliver more ovens as quickly as possible.

Thus, it is appropriate that I come to Berlin Thursday
morning in order to discuss further deliveries with Mr K.
I should bring documents on Auschwitz with me, so that
the urgent calls can be finally silenced once and for all.

I have agreed to the visit for Thursday.

>>2840550
>how many jews were actually killed in Auschwitz? The deniers say theres no way it was 6 mil cause not enough (fast) ovens
Well, it shouldn't be surprising that they don't even know the death toll historians estimate because they are a bunch of retarded edgefags that never read anything (other than stormfag infopics) on the subject they try to discuss.

>>2842437
let's do the math
3 x 250
5 x 800

which comes up to 4750 per day, and assuming the unrealistic scenario where bodies are being burned 24/7/365 you could burn 1,733,750 bodies per year.

But also notice that the document states that "Mr. K" (Obersturmfuhrer Krone) said that this number would not be sufficient and they needed more.

It's also worth noting that what we now refer to as "Auschwitz" was in fact three camps:
(I) The original camp of brick buildings in the town of Auschwitz (Oświęcim) itself;
(II) The much larger camp with a brick entranceway but built mostly of wooden buildings, on the plain below Oświęcim, at Birkenau; and
(III) A work camp at Monowitz.

(I) had the iconic entrance shown in the OP, and had some small, low-capacity crematoria.
(II) was huge, and had huge crematoria capable of incinerating many bodies per day.

I went to (I) and (II) in 1989. The brick entrance to (II) was standing, and a couple of the wooden buildings were still standing as well, but were in bad shape and could only be visited by special request.

I don't know/remember so much about (III). Based on the Wikipedia article, it was primarily a work camp, and if people didn't succeed there, they were sent to (II) for destruction.

Tl;dr version: people entered through the front door and left through the chimney

>>2840563

Wow, so you're saying they cremated dead bodies? Wow, that totally implies that there was an extermination program going on, surely there can be no other explanation for cremating a dead body...

>>2840550
What's mlpol? A tankie discord?

>>2840550

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlBA2zp992c#t=3m58s

>Muh 4 million
>Uhm, I m-mean 1 million
>Muh human lampshades
>Uhm I m-mean just k-kidding onichan

Wow I wonder why would anyone ever ask for actual evidence of an intentional extermination program other than pictures of dead bodies during war time and the fact that dead bodies were cremated.

>>2842791

Thousands the bodies a day?

>>2842805

>history is set in stone and never changes as new sources of information are brought to light

Fuck off stormcunt, there's plenty of evidence, your kind just refuses to accept it.

>>2842857

>how dare you question that le ebil nazis took shower with human soaps and used human fat for candles

This is what your post looks like to me

>>2840550
I don't know about Holocaust but "death camps" is absolute meme, every work camp during a war time is a death camp because there is too many things to take care for keeping people alive and nobody will bother with it when there is a war going on and especially if you're the one losing it.

>>2842888
>I don't know about Holocaust but "death camps" is absolute meme

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extermination_camp

Here you can learn more about them. They were not work camps.

>>2842793
My Little Politics. It was when /pol/ merged with /mlp/ for April Fool's.

>>2842899
>1mln people in 5 years
How does this this contradict to what I said? Do you have any idea how work camp looks like during a war?

>>2842924
>Whereas the Auschwitz II (Auschwitz–Birkenau) and Majdanek camps were parts of a labor camp complex, the Operation Reinhard camps and the Chełmno camp were built exclusively for the quick extermination of entire communities of people (primarily Jews) within hours of their arrival. All were constructed near branch lines that linked to the Polish railway system. They had almost identical design, including staff members transferring between locations.[37][38] Selected able-bodied prisoners delivered to death camps were not immediately killed, but pressed into labor units called Sonderkommandos to help with the extermination process by removing corpses from the gas chambers and burning them. The extermination camps were physically small (only several hundred metres long and wide) and equipped with minimal housing and support installations, not meant for the railway transports.

>>2842882
Because you're a stormcunt and desperately cling to "the narrative" that only historically illiterate stormcunts believe in.

>>2842888

>no one will bother looking after prisoners because there's a war on

Ignoring that doing so is a war crime in and of itself, explain why Western Allied military prisoners fared significantly better than Allied civilian prisoners and Soviet military prisoners?

>>2842793
>tankie discord
Why would tankies deny the Holocaust? They would do that with Stalinist atrocities.

>>2842957
Again do you have any idea how work camp function during a war? You work for two-three days than bite the dust and someone else is taking care of your body to prevent potential famine, that description show head of camp knew what he was dealing with, not that there is some grand plan to exterminate people.
>>2842976
>Ignoring that doing so is a war crime in and of itself
I'm not denying it but when you're losing a war, war crimes are the least of your worries.
>explain why Western Allied military prisoners fared significantly better than Allied civilian prisoners and Soviet military prisoners
Same reason why there was so many dead Jews really, if you have limited resources for prisoners you can give everyone a little but not enough in the long run or enough to one group and let the rest starve.

>>2842805
No historian worth their salt believes the lampshade stories

as for the 4 million, I am guessing you are referring to the plaque saying that 4 million people died?

The reasoning for that stone (or plaque) is this: The soviets for whatever reason were convinced of the 4 million people (not just jews) dying at Auschwitz. They probably were using the crazy number as propaganda (notice it said "people" not "jews") because of all the red army POWs that were there.

Secondly, during nuremberg testamony was giving regarding the total number of jews which were killed in ALL concentration camps, and the nazi statistician who they questioned gave the number at 4 million for all the camps. Which the allies cited for the plaque.

If you were to go there today, you will have noticed they changed the plaque to site the more accurate numbers...this was done after the fall of the USSR.

Everything makes quite good sense if you actually research things
>>2842791
Why would the nazis say to the people manufacturing the ovens that 80,000 bodies a month is not sufficient and they needed more ovens? see: >>2842391
>>2842924
How did the nazis kill the victims in their T4 program run on the mentally ill until 1941? How did they dispose of these bodies? (I will give you a clue, it rhymes with "smoison sgas" and "smesmation") Which arises another excellent question. How did many of these ss doctors (a couple of dozen) end up working in concentration camps in Poland starting in 1942??? I wonder what they were there for?

>>2843129
shit, sorry for the reddit spacing before any stormwienie calls it out as a rebuttal to anything I wrote. It was purely unintentional

>>2843027
>do you have any idea how work camp function during a war?
Do you?
> not that there is some grand plan to exterminate people.
And yet most victims were Jews. Weird, isn't it? For some reason Jews were also most victims of Nazi massacres. And most victims of pogroms instigated by Nazis.

"Only" 56% of Soviet POWs died in German camps (highest percentage of all POWs of any army), but 87% of Polish Jews, 83% of Czech Jews, 73% of Hungarian Jews, 89% of Yugoslavian Jews, 88% of Lithuanian Jews and so on.

>>2843147
Don't forget to mention that 73% of jews arriving on trains to camps such as Auschwitz never even made it IN the camp....I wonder what happened to them? I guess those unfit for being admitted into the work camp were simply returned home, right?

>>2843129
>The reasoning for that stone (or plaque) is this: The soviets for whatever reason were convinced of the 4 million people (not just jews) dying at Auschwitz. They probably were using the crazy number as propaganda (notice it said "people" not "jews") because of all the red army POWs that were there.
They were doing it all the time. There is a Polish film made in 1944 or 1944 Majdanek - the Cemetery of Europe when they talk about 2 million people of all ethnicities killed in the camp.

>>2843157
Do you know what the name of the film is by chance?

>>2840563
5k bodies a day? Is this the power of German engineering?

>>2843170
did you not look at anything in this thread?

>>2843167
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHhh9YI_BbU

It's this. I doubt there is an English translation.

>>2843186
You're probably right, thank you for the vid

>>2843170
You are quite right anon, JA Topf and Sons were a german engineering company which designed and built the crematoria for the major concentration camps!

>>2843129
>How did the nazis kill the victims in their T4 program run on the mentally ill until 1941? How did they dispose of these bodies? (I will give you a clue, it rhymes with "smoison sgas" and "smesmation") Which arises another excellent question. How did many of these ss doctors (a couple of dozen) end up working in concentration camps in Poland starting in 1942??? I wonder what they were there for?
You mean these terrible terrible people killed everyone who was potential waste and shipped tons of doctors to test anything they please in favorable conditions to do experiments? How could they. Do you know this practice(of using POW as training bags and test subjects for doctors) isn't exclusive to Nazis and USA tried to do this as well during the same war even?
>>2843147
>And yet most victims were Jews. Weird, isn't it?
Not really, if UK start a war with EU but dictate Germans as subhumans you can be damn sure that Germans will get short end of stick dying is terrible conditions in camps or just starving somewhere, while French prisoners will enjoy wine every week. How is resource management during war so difficult to grasp? You don't feed disposable (sub)human resource, only people you see as useful. It's cruel but you don't win wars by hugs, you do your best and pray that whoever will win won't judge you for that.
>>2843150
Again when you see someone as disposable you won't bother to even feed them, no surprise they didn't even made to the camp.

>>2842464
This also requires a body to be consumed per 2 minutes in the triple which translates to a new body being loaded every 6 minutes per muffle if you have three muffles.

(60*24)/800=2

>>2843200
>you can be damn sure that Germans will get short end of stick dying is terrible conditions in camps or just starving somewhere
Which will be a genocide.

>>2843204
And how many bodies could you fit in a single oven?

Keep in mind the nazis killed 1.1 - 1.3 million in around 2 1/2 years, which by their calculations of their ovens was more than plausible (keep in mind they did add two more crematoria (both with I think around 8 - 12 more ovens each) AFTER this report was sent to Himmler

>>2843212
There were also open pits where they burned some bodies.

>>2843200
We know from testimonies and German documents they were killing the Jews. Not only starving them or working them to death but also gassing and shooting them.

>>2843212
You put more bodies in the oven and you have a greater thermal mass to boil the water out of - would take longer to process a body.

There would probably be some optimization around how many bodies per muffler gives you max burn rate.

Its just the numbers seem that the crematoria seem to burn bodies very quickly.

As someone who works in mineral processing I know i can put a steak in a 1300c refractory furnace for 5 minutes and it won't turn to ash.

Not saying it's not doable its just the burn rate does seem fast in that doc.

>>2843210
I never said it isn't, my argument is that "death camps" is a meme because every work camp during a war is prone to be very gray area where people die on masses unless your side is literally glassing the fuck out of enemy from safe distance and even then tests on humans are not that uncommon.
>>2843215
And now I'm gonna surprise you, while I know many of these testimonies turned out to be bullshit I still hold them as something believable and true because if you're running a work camp/doctor training ground having your trainee deal with bullet wounds or gas victims is a valuable experience and knowing German autism they wouldn't let that chance pass.

at first i was being a faggot denier but when i realized how many have died i didnt get angry because i knew they deserved it

This is all that /pol/ has to offer us: holocoast denial

>>2843227
I recall reading that they found 2 adults and a kid per muffler to be the optimal load. I'm afraid I don't recall the source, though.

>>2843234
I disagree. There is a difference between death camps and labor camps.

>because every work camp during a war is prone to be very gray area where people die on masses
This is true, and it wasn't different in German concentration camps. But death camps also existed. Their purpose was to kill a big amount of people right after their arrival. This is how death camps operated. Auschwitz was both a concentration camp and a death camp.

>>2843291
>But death camps also existed
This is something I just can't swallow. Why would you build a camp only to kill people there, this is not efficient way to deal with human waste. Even Stalin worked out hunger and labor camps are the way to go, japs really loved to let dead bodied rot so famine can kill their enemies, and they aren't exactly greatest minds of the war, hell USA perfected doctor training camp idea in Korea. What make Germans so different to build a camp just to kill people? Man I know they are autistic but this shit just make no sense given everything else they did unless it was some kind of famine contamination facility.

>>2843382
Those camps weren't that big. Killing people this way was more efficient than just shooting them.

>>2843382

Germans aren't efficient.

>>2843382
I just saw a documentary on TV that said the death camps only existed for the Western European Jews. Since getting rid of them by plain execution would raise a bit too much attention they were hauled to Poland into death camps. Eastern European Jews were just plain killed off by Einsatzgruppen.

Then again the same documentary also claimed Churchill knew about the holocaust but stayed silent so nazis wouldn't be able to say allies were fighting for the Jews. I mean come on.

>>2843234
>I admit they gassed hordes of arriving detainees at Aushcwitz because they didn't have work value
>but calling it and camps like it death camps is a meme because they let some people work as slave labor instead of killing them
This is the kind of stupid shit only stormweenies think makes sense.

>>2842791

>Wow, so you're saying they cremated dead bodies? Wow, that totally implies that there was an extermination program going on

If you're doing it at a rate of hundreds per day, continuously, then yeah.

>>2844495
>but calling it and camps like it death camps is a meme because they let some people work as slave labor instead of killing them
>in one camp 300k people died worked to death or on famine
>it's a work camp
>in other camp 100k people was killed
>it's a death camp
Flawless logic indeed.
>stormweenies
Oh nevermind so you're just retarded.

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>>2843382

>Why would you build a camp only to kill people there

To hide to process from people who aren't directly involved. The Nazi euthansia program had attracted significant criticism, especially from clergy. Bishop Graf von Galen, in particular, gave speeches where he denounced the Nazi party for killing innocents. None of this changed Hitler's mind about it, but it did prompt him to be more careful in preventing public exposure of killing activities.

>>2844598

The distinction is for the rate of killing, not the overall numbers of people killed. Yes, people died in the work camps, from exhaustion and malnutrition. These are things which kill a person slowly. In the death camps, people were herded into gas chambers or in some cases, simply machine gunned.

>>2844598

>all camps sprung up at the same time and we're in existence for the same amount of time

>>2844639
There is no distinctions because both "camps" are part of the same facility one is part A so called work camp while other is part B so called death camp. Why would this distinction exist for other purpose than propaganda if it's the same facility.

>>2844811

Propaganda by who?