Opium wars

>>2838226
>implying it was about tea

Tea was just a proxy for a much larger issues: trade, monopolies, access to the Chinese market, economic sovereignty and show of power

>>2838253
True that

>>2838213
The Opium wars is the first time Britain really claimed world dominance, and the first time that Chinese dominance in the east was overthrown. It fucked up China's reputation and standing badly, so much so that Japan started to lean towards the west instead of China - Thus partly triggering their Meiji restoration and their rapid industrialization

>>2838336
So basically the first time chinese lost?

>>2838358
no China lost plenty of times

but the victors of those times just went "we China nao!" Opium wars was the first time they lost and that didn't happen (though I feel Japan's endgame would've been along those lines).

>>2838213
The biggest effect of the Opium war is the communist China we see today.

>>2838710
Wut

>>2838253
>Opium Wars
>Not about Opium

/his/torical revisionism is a beautiful thing

>>2839409
Opium epidemic led to Opium war, which led to century of humiliation and loss of Qing legitimacy in the eyes of people. This led to Qing's demise, the rise of Republic and Communists. Communist won out and uses the century of humiliation as a propaganda tool to create a defensive national goal, MAKE CHINA GREAT AGAIN.

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>>2838213
I have actually read a bunch of British primary sources on the conflict.

Anything specifically you want to know?

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>>2839486

>>2839486
I would like to know of any sources you know that describe Chinese use of bows and matchlocks, or combats between Chinese archers and musketeers.

>>2838213
le ebil white male oppressing minorities

>>2838213
the only time first worlders could claim control of drug trafficking
now they're butthurt and keep it illegal

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how much did heroin influence the Vietnam War? They brought it home in bodybags.

>>2839515
It is mentioned occasionally, especially when they faced 'tartar' or manchu troops.

That said there wasn't that much combat to speak off. The Chinese usually legged it after the British poured one or two volleys into them.

>>2839456
Qing dynasty being fucktarded was the main cause + Soviet Union, anon.

>>2839642
Why was Qing retarded, just asking.

>>2839680
I ask myself that each day

So do Chinese

>>2839682
So its a baseless claim?

Most countries made little effort to ban opium until after ww1 including places where it was grown like Turkey. Why was China so susceptible to it?

>>2839486
How well equipped and trained were the Chinese?

How did the British defeat the world's largest empire, and what had historically been the most powerful empire in history, with 20,000 men and some boats?

>>2838336
chinese are still so butt blasted that their identity is based on this event

also, arguably triggered the whole civil war

Bongs being dastardly bongs, not that much

that being said, it also explains why japan and Britain saw eye to eye with each other

>>2839486
How did the Opium Wars affect Sino-Japanese relations?

What is the relation between the Opium Wars and the Chinese Civil War?

How was the war perceived in London?

>>2840139
>How was the war perceived in London?

would the average Brit even know they were at war?

>>2840139
1. Japan decided to rapidly modernise, and now wanted to become the dominant power in east asia through military force once again, this time with modernization

2. Opium war destroyed the chinese tradition of empires/dynasties, forever since then the chinese people would never look favourably at it again. It also argueably was the last straw on the camels back, leading to the peasants supporting communists and such. This support obviously led to the roots of both the communist and nationalist camps.

3. It was perceived like any other war done in the name of british trade: we din do nuffins dey chinese be discriminatin agains us

to quote napoleon:

“If I were an Englishman, I should esteem the man who advised a war with China to be the greatest living enemy of my country. You would be beaten in the end, and perhaps a revolution in India would follow.”

while china would obviously not win that confrontation, this event will forever be in the minds of china's populace. The brits can be rest assured that they will take much delight in cooperating with the EU to carve the UK up

>>2840118
The Chinese military was extremely pathetic at this point in history.

Two thirds of their army was equipped with weapons such as bows, spears, bamboo poles and the like. The other third had had an array of matchlocks of a 17th century style.

Junks were not the greatest sailors, notably smaller than the British ships and they carried around 6 to 12 cannons of a relatively low caliber. The balls just bounced off steel steamships such as the nemesis.

The artillery was relatively numerous and while some pieces were cast very skillfully they were almost all 17th century models.

Morale, discipline and skill was very poor all around. A British company could march up to a Chinese formation ten times their size and the Chinese would flee. One of the more successful actions was actually a Chinese militia numbering 3000 who caught a Madras/Bengal company with wet flintlocks. They managed to kill and wound close to a dozen. This actually represents a large part of the overal casualties of the British.

Gunnery was also quite poor and you regularly see ships engaging fortresses with 0 losses outside of some damage to the rigging.

Essentially an untrained army with nonexistent moral and 17th century equipment faced the forces of a very disciplined army that had partially industrial weapons.

>>2840139
Some were against it both on the basis of considering it wrong to smuggle opium and that war should not be brought to China. Others fully endorsed the opium trade and others were not for the opium trade but thought the insult to the UK should be avenged with military action.

The Japanese did hear about the war but not always from the most trustworthy of sources. At any rate it made them realize that the foreign barbarians just forced their mighty neighbor into submission and that something similar might happen to them.
>>2840151
Newspapers

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>>2840193

>>2839686
No

>>2840129
>buttblasted that their identity is based on this event

Umm I'm pretty sure their identity before and after the Opium Wars was pretty similar... Chinese.

>>2840193
>Morale, discipline and skill was very poor all around. A British company could march up to a Chinese formation ten times their size and the Chinese would flee.

Why was this?

>>2840289
Poor morale.

Many battles were preceded by British artillery pounding the Chinese positions to shit. In battles where this didn't happen the British musket fire was simply much more effective than what the Chinese could shoot back. In melee range even when they possessed better weapons than bayonets (see >>2840203) they simply didn't dare to close and attack.

>>2840289
99.83% of the Qing armies and banner groups were high as a kite on opium.

>>2840289
Qing dynasty was in a shithouse, the manchus would not see reason and modernise their armies, wanting a revival of the old arts (bows and arrows)
the middle to late stages of the Qing were incredibly bad

>>2840303
No, I mean why was morale poor? What was wrong with the Chinese army? At the level where they'll route from a force 1/10 their size and won't even close in to attack borderline unarmed men I question why they even have an army.

>>2840314
>your bosses are shitty LARPing archers that give you crappy firearms
>your pay is shit
>you are fighting a technologically superior foe
>the country you are fighting for isn't really yours

>>2840314
> >>2840306
This is actually true

>>2840314
Soldiers were one of the lower classes in society and didn't get much respect.

Most were parttime soldiers

Most hated the Manchu's

Their training was essentially larping

Their officer training consisted of writing essays

>>2840386

The Green Banner were supposed to be full time professional soldiers.

They were also given land and supposed to farm, because Green Banners were used as border guards along the frontier, so they could sustain themselves.

Then because the frontier was so much trouble to get to and from, the garrisons brought their wife and kids, and the "profession" of soldiering became hereditary.

Then because there was nothing to fight for 100 years, the hereditary soldiers became hereditary farmers who collected (shitty pay) from the government for the nominal responsibility of soldiering.

It's like what happened to the Turkish Jannissaries, but 100 times worse.

>>2840520
It also happened to the Ming dynasty.

The whole idea of making your soldiers one of the lowest classes AND expecting them to feed themselves with farming seems like a recipe for disaster.

>>2840306
Very true.

>>2840607
It was quite amazing

We need a late Qing Empire thread. Post-Opium Wars.

I'll make it

>>2840306
Well are you sure it was that percentage, you can't really smoke opium while fighting a battle.

On a sidenote, some English officers smoked it to in China

>>2840172
>>2840193
thanks anons