Heartland Theory + Russia

>>2836856
Mongols are an exception

>>2836865
Russians arent intelligent enough to be nihilistic back then.
When Napoleon invaded they burnt half their fertile land cause they don't give a fuck.
When Hitler invaded they used human wave tactics because they wanted to die.

>>2836939
Didn't they poison their own water supplies during Nazi occupation?

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>>2836939
>human wave tactics
another bad stormfag meme

russians are superior to germans, too bad hitler thought the other way

>>2836963
is that why their losses were dramatically higher even while winning the war?

>>2836993
The kill-death ratio were essentially identical (1.3 to 1.5) following Barbarossa which is when no one on the Russian side had a clue what the fuck they were doing because Joseph Stalin was being a complete autistic maniac with the army

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>>2837033
>The kill-death ratio were essentially identical (1.3 to 1.5) following Barbarossa

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>>2837058
>implying there is any huge difference in those numbers
>implying 1944 and 1945 arent wrong

>>2836865
Even they never took Novgorod which they really wanted to loot.
Mongol were smart enough to realize that invading deep into Russia is an awful fucking idea.

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>>2836939
Oh, look, it's a human wave tactics meme again.

>>2837058
> counting 4mlns starved-to-death POVs as a military loss
> JUST LOOK AT THIS K/D RATIO

>>2836856
the mongols faired so well in all ventures they sort of blew themselves out in their own heartland its quite a tragic irony really

take their breadbasket with a geopolitically stable great game platform and russia will never be seen again, moscow disintergrates into a post anarcho wasteland and st petersberg rises again with the nordic states :-D

>>2837058
Fake numbers you got there on your memegraph, actual losses are:
Soviet Union+allies - 7 051 000 KIA
5 280 000 POW

AXIS - 4 482 000 KIA
5 453 500 POW

Even if you dont count POWs and just KIA (not KIPOW camp) you get that 1,5 to 1, if you count POW because they are casualty as well that is even better because you can use POWs for slave labour, number is 1,3 to 1

>>2836944

I forget their name, but around the steppes of russia there was one group of people that really hated communists more than fascists and threw dead animals into whatever sources of fresh water they could.

This lead to quite a few people dying of thirst as they retreated east away from the kraut invaders.

>>2838306
Basmachi were destroyed in 30´s and were more close to China than Europe

>>2836963
they did use suicidal wave tactics...
>>2836856
It's probably a reoccuring theme because of how fucking big Russia is. It would be a lot different today if someone invaded them by using drones, long-range missiles, etc, but back then the only way you can bring an opposing regime to heels was to occupy its capital, to decisively defeat their largest army or to bring down their leaders. All things that took long to do if you had to trek 600,000 men through scorching heat or 2,000,000 men along the entire front.

>>2838428
>they did use suicidal wave tactics...
[citation needed]

>>2836856
Mongols didn't invade Russia. There was no "Russia" back then. Mongols invaded various Rus kingdoms that constantly fought each other and, as a result, couldn't get their shit together to fight a common enemy.

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>>2838434
this entire book, start by reading something and you'll see. There's also the russian saying "Hac мнoгo" which they justified in suicide and lack of self-preservation.

In fact, read up on any fucking battle of the war, faggot.

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>>2838535

>>2838535
You first autist, if you actualy think that anyone that isnt from a fucking Africa would attack in a "human wave" or even do it and achieve something. I have seen Ukrainian veteran talking about drunken Volkturm in Prussia attacking without weapons and being shooten in the back by Feldpolizei, so much about "the book". There is also German saying "we cant win a war so we have to made up memestories about our soldiers to justify our failure." Learn something about basic infantry tactics and then talk about war, watching Enemy at the gates does not make you Eastern Front expert.

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>>2838800
if you think"i have seen Ukrainian veteran..." is proof then you're dumber than i thought. Stop denying the shitty strategy soviets employed in battle. From 1920 to 1950s the soviet strategy was still to churn out as much cannon fodder to throw at the enemy until they overran the positions. The sole reason they won the war in the first place was because of the orders that they couldn't step back or retreat lest they face comissars. In some cases the russians said the SMERSH/NKVD officers fought like lions when they fought against retreating russians. No one liked them, not the germans, not the rusians, not even themselves. Russian human wave tactics was not only on the field, they mobilized entire populations to working camps, sometimes emptying entire provinces to become human surplus in the production field.

Soviet strategy was the lowest of the entire world at the time, even italians (despite faring worse) cared more for their soldiers and civiliand than the soviets did.

>>2838800
- In the very early months, the fight was exceptionally desperate and the Red Army often found themselves with no alternative, as they lacked heavy support, and in some cases even enough rifles. Massed charges happened, and there are even accounts of Soviet soldiers charging with their arms linked in solidarity (or to ensure no one chickens out if you are cynical) as they lacked rifles. Wasting trained soldiers on this makes little long term sense though, and it wasn't utilized in latter phases of the war.
The second, and more common use at least through Stalingrad, were the citizen levies (Narodnoe Opolcheniye). There weren't soldiers, but civilians pressed into service and thrown against the Germans to buy time. Some were armed, some weren't. In some cases they were forced at gun point. Most members of the Opolcheniye had no training, and survival rates were low, to say the least. those that did you be absorbed into the Red Army eventually. To quote from an instance outside Leningrad:

>>2838889
>>2838800
"Altogether over 135,000 Leningraders, factory workers as well as professors, had volunteered, or been forced to volunteer. They had no training, no medical assistance, no uniforms, no transport and no supply system. More than half lacked rifles, and yet they were still ordered into counter-attacks against panzer divisions. Most fled in terror of the tanks, against which they had no defence at all. This massive loss of life–perhaps some 70,000–was tragically futile, and it is far from certain that their sacrifice even delayed the Germans at all on the line of the River Luga."
The final type we see is with the shtrafniki - soldiers put into punishment battalions. They were soldiers who had committed crimes, or political prisoners of the gulags, or kulaks, and other undesirable elements, who were atoning for their crimes (real or imagined) with service in the worst position in the army - in many cases the alternative was a death sentence anyways. Service would be for about three months, and if you survived, you would return to a normal unit. But survival wasn't easy. These units would be used for such wonderful roles as human mine-clearers, or in the parlance of your era - "Forlorn hopes". Some units would have 100 percent mortality rates, although the overall survival rate wasn't quite that high! Close to 500,000 soldiers would service in the Shtrafbat by war's end.

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>>2836865

>>2838800
now go fucking read a book instead of getting your info from Hearts of Iron games you absolute autistic dumbass

>>2838017
>> counting 4mlns starved-to-death POVs as a military loss

they can't keep getting away with it

>>2838428
>they did use suicidal wave tactics
you got into memhistory
it could be countered by absorbing the real one, not from media

>>2838827
>>2838889
>>2838890
cant believe people got into this
using emotion-oriented words like "throw cannon fodder" instead of "deploy" for every move that any other army did to make ot look different.

You even got into "human wave tactics" and "fights with commissars in backlines" myths. Do you even understand what those barrier-troops were doing there? Do you really think they shot and fought retreating soldiers?
ffs my dear people.

There is interesting infos about how german and russian battle tactics chnged during the war, how they adapt ot each other and learn mistakes, and you now here with this humanwave absurd

>>2838904
>>2838827
Stop getting you info from Nazi propaganda you kike-loving Hitlerite nigger, iam fascist.

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>>2839214
because actualy thinking about shit you write is too hard for Stormfags

>>2839136
>not from media
i don't watch films or play games on ww2(?) i know it's hard for you to conceive people reading up on things
>>2839214
pathetically stupid points and wrong.
>>2839564
>you kike-loving Hitlerite nigger, iam fascist.
i should have known you're a meme

>>2839580
Try to link some actual books that talks about "human wave tactics"
>inb4 Degrelle

>>2839587
*talk

>>2839587
>>2838538
too bad you're illiterate

>>2836963
>russians are superior to germans
Which is probably why they died in the millions and literally drowned their opponents in dead bodies until they ran out of ammo.

>>2839609
Which is probably why wars arent call of duty team deathmatch, loss ratio is 1,3 and Red army ended war in Berlin

>>2839607
nice argument kike

>>2839618
The point is that the Russians fought by throwing their expendable population at the enemy. Occasionally the soldiers were told to pick up rifles from the dead, only being given ammo.
And if America hadn't supported Russia with lend-lease they would have almost certainly lost, just like they did in WW1 by the way.

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>>2839635
being able to do this with around 2-3 to one numerical superiority realy makes you think
Zhukov clone armies amirite

>>2838827
>Soviet strategy was the lowest of the entire world at the time, even italians (despite faring worse) cared more for their soldiers and civiliand than the soviets did.
This.

No surprise there, as this is what Communism does to people.

>>2839670
One side cares about lives of their soldiers
The other side wins the war

>>2839690
>One side cares about lifes of their soldiers
>The other side wins the war
I'm certain the millions of men who died in dumb human waves charges would have been a bit happier if their commanders and commie leaders would have used their head and actually used some strategy rather than sending them to certain death.

>>2839701
Learn a difference between tactic and strategy and then come back with you human wave meme

>>2839701
Also i would like to know how is "human wave tactic" supposed to be effective, also why dont all armies use it when le best army in le human history got defeated by it.

>>2839720
>why dont all armies use it
Because not all armies are ran by dumb Commies with more men than brains.

>>2839733
TIL 1 300 000 soldiers are more than 1 500 000
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Moscow
Still i wonder how are they supposed to be effective when you can use normal unsupported infantry tactic where some soldiers run from cover to cover while other lay on the ground and shoot at the enemy