Does Stalin even qualify as a bad guy?

But he is considered an anti-hero. He turned the Soviet Union into a global super power with an almost unmatched industrial might.

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>>2831726
Stalin enabled Judeo-Bolshevism. He was a half Jew, his fathers last name was Jughashvili, which means Son of the Jew in Georgian. He's caused way more deaths than Hitler and it's not even close.

>>2831726
>bad guy

This is children's book tier terminology

>>2831726
Savior of Russia.

>>2831744

The only reason that Stalin has a higher body count than Hitler is because Stalin killed him. If Operation Barbarossa had been successful, Hitler's total body count would have been much, much higher.

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>>2831744
Without the horrible atrocities of the Soviet Union, there would be no Nazis. He doesn't get credit for stopping what was created by Bolshevists. Germany was terrified of what they were trying to bring to Germany. I feel no sympathy.

>>2831726
>everybody in Russia would have been killed by the Nazis
>muh all Russians would have been killed

nice high school knowledge, tankie

>>2831777
Exactly. We have no proof for any of these supposed "Nazi plans"

>>2831766

And if not for Kaiser Wilhelm supporting Lenin's overthrow of the Russian government, there would be no USSR. Funny how storm-fags always manage to leave out that important little detail.

Stalin greatly aided the rise of Hitler and the Nazis, in both a political and military sense. In the early 30s, at a time when the NSDAP was gaining ground in elections Stalin ordered via the Comintern for the German communist party not to collaborate with non-communist left-wing parties like the Social Democrats. This prevented the prospect of a leftist coalition obstructing Hitler's rise to the position of Chancellor.

Then, in the spring of 1941, at a time when his generals and spies were providing him with information of an imminent German attack, Stalin refused to believe it, retaining his dogmatic conviction that Hitler would invade Britain before turning against the USSR. Such was Stalin's determination to avoid antagonizing Hitler he went as far as to throw some of those who earned him of a German attack into the gulags, and did not set up appropriate defences along the Russo-German border. It was this carelessness and lack of preparation that enabled the Germans to advance as far as they did, as well as the incompetence of the Soviet generals, which was the result of Stalin's purges. So yeah, although he defeated the Germans, he made it much harder himself, and for the Russian people.

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>>2831777

Lebensraum doesn't allow for peaceful co-existence. Millions of Russians would have killed in order to free up room for German colonies. We're talking death tolls in the double-digit millions.

>>2831802
acceptable

nordic aryans > slavs

but they are both white

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>>2831787

Nobody ever claimed that Stalin was a perfect leader, but he was a least good enough to save his country from complete extermination at the hands of a merciless foe. That certainly deserves some credit.

>>2831781

but... we do. we have mountains of evidence. what they did to the austrians for Heydrich, total cleansing of villages, which we have proof of, that sort of total industrial genocide was applied across Poland and the USSR. we have proof of what they did to captured POWs. we have proof that they destroyed historic Warsaw and St. Petersburg. we know that the hatred between two incompatible cults of personality led to operational mistakes at Stalingrad.

"we have no proof" only if your research is limited by what you find on /pol/

>>2831809
> throwing your "true" white men in the grinder in a hopeless, unwinnable, 2-front war and Britain+USA
> just so you could kill a lot of "not just as white but still white sort of" people
> killing off nationalism and native european culture for good and continuing the timeline to the present
> "acceptable"

can anyone explain to me why do so many people hate the jews?
what is the reason for it?
is it simply conspiracy theories or is there something else?

My school teachers simply said me hitler hated the jews because it was an easy scapegoat and a lucrative political option, but i find this explanation shit


redpill me guys

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>>2831766
>Germany was terrified of what they were trying to bring

Not just Germany, the whole world was. It's politically incorrect to point out now, but communism and bolshevism were inherently Jewish movements. From the front to the top to the bottom.

>>2831893

In the 1930's, anti-Semitism was popular and uncontroversial. There was no social stigma attached to begin an anti-Semite until Hitler went full-retard with it and did something so utterly revolting that many countries started actually passing laws to protect Jews from persecution.

>>2831726
isn't this sort of passive aggressive glorifying of nazidom precisely the problem?

op btfo

>>2831962

Don't get me wrong, the USSR under Stalin's leadership did many truly awful things that are impossible to justify. But having said that, it is still wrong to view Stalin as some sort of evil cartoon villain who never did anything right.

>>2831802

>Lebensraum doesn't allow for peaceful co-existence.

Of course, the population would be resettled elsewhere. It goes without saying that most of the green area on your map wasn't planned to be colonized by Germans.

>Millions of Russians would have killed in order to free up room for German colonies. We're talking death tolls in the double-digit millions.

There were no genocide plans.

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>>2831744
>Judeo-Bolshevism
My second favourite thing, after White Genocide.

>>2831893
jewish commies tried a revolution in bavaria and used machine guns in streets or something

>>2831857
>what they did to the austrians for Heydrich, total cleansing of villages
you mean the Czechs, and this had nothing to do with genocide. It was a sort of reprisal that also happened in France, Greece, etc.

>total industrial genocide was applied across Poland and the USSR.

yes, against Jews (and Gypsies to a lesser extent).

>we have proof of what they did to captured POWs

There's actually no proof that the POWs were deliberately killed (except for Jews, commissars and some other groups), the evidence rather points at the other direction.

>>2832080
And against Polish intelligentsia. Polish schools were also closed, Polish people kidnapped, Poles from territories annexed by the Reich were deported.

Poland as a country essentially stopped existing. And according to Himmler the very concept of Polish identity should be erased in the next 20 years. Same with Ukrainians and Belorussians.

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>>2831763
Stalin DOESN'T have a higher bodycount than Hitler. The highest accepted estimates for his death toll (20 million) are roughly equal to the lower estimates of allied civilian dead. Factor in the millions of allied soldiers, and the Germans whose death warrant Hitler signed by invading all of Europe, and we see that Hitler is responsible for many more dead. In half as many years as Stalin, too!

>>2832080
3 million Soviet prisoners were starved to death in Nazi concentration camps.

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>>2832080

>There's actually no proof that the POWs were deliberately killed (except for Jews, commissars and some other groups)

You yourself just listed three examples of Soviet POW's being deliberately killed. And the ones that weren't killed immediately were subjected to forced labor and inhuman conditions.

Regardless of his beliefs (which were in fact communism, no matter how much commies want to sperg out and say otherwise) his function was that of a bourgeois revolutionary.

i.e. industrialised the nation and dragged it into modernity. Generally this takes a lot of bloodshed.

>>2832102
All of Germany was starving at that time you dumb nigger. It wasn't done on purpose.

>>2832126

>Putting somebody in a prison camp and denying them food is an accident

>>2832135
>putting someone in a prison camp and running out of food was intentional

>>2832126
nope. for one soviet POWs were starving en masse as soon as the eastern front opened. second, while at the end of the war the food supply in germany was strained, they still had effectively rationed food for the civilian population so that no one starved. Hitler took special concern to make sure this didn't happen because he believed that a disgruntled populace (and jewish meddling) caused germany to lose WWI

>>2831744
That's not true, no. Stalin doesn't have any Jewish ancestry and was pretty shitty for Soviet Jews.

>>2832126
Why are you deliberately lying? Soviet casualties were much higher than Western PoWs. 57% death rate is not normal, even Gulags were less deadly.

>>2832139

And it certainly was. There is a very clear difference in the way that Soviet POW's were treated in comparison to how American or British POW's were treated by the Germans. Soviet POW's were being deliberated worked to exhaustion and starved to death. In Nazi ideology, Russians were on the same level as Jews, vermin to exterminated, nothing more, nothing less.

>>2832146
Could it be Stalin's plan was to send an endless amount of people to the eastern front (or western in his perspective) until he could bulge into German territory? Say it wasn't so. The casualties are a result of Stalin's idiotic plan, not because of how POWs were treated.

>>2832143
>feeding civilians before prisoners of war is a crime

>>2832156
>Soviet POW's were being deliberated worked to exhaustion and starved to death. In Nazi ideology, Bolsheviks were on the same level as Jews, vermin to exterminated, nothing more, nothing less.

Fix'd that for you

>>2832163
No. Soviet POWs were captured mostly at the start of German invasion.

>>2832166

It actually is. If you have a group of people imprisoned, then you are absolutely responsible for providing humane treatment. If you are unable to do this, then you are required to release the prisoners.

>>2832177
>Critical Theory logic

>feeding your own people than people who were imprisoned for killing your people is a crime

Marxist logic

>>2832156
>Soviet POW's were being deliberated worked to exhaustion and starved to death. In Nazi ideology, Russians were on the same level as Jews, vermin to exterminated, nothing more, nothing less.

Yes of course it had to do with "Le evil Nazi ideology" and not because what the communist did in Holodomor (which by the way the Germans liberated)

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>>2832197
>Holodomor
You mean the famine which struck the whole of the USSR?

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Th nazis were welcomed as liberators by many in the USSR. Was watching a documentary the other day with footage of Ukrainian women giving flowers to the Nazis because their lives were so terrible before their arrival. Hitler was right about the Jewish commies and Stalin was a piece of shit

One right doesn't right a wrong, OP. I think the Russians should thank Stalin for crushing Hitler's tiny dick into a fine paste, but curse him for bringing toils upon his people (now whether or not that toil was better in the long run is another question entirely).

>>2832209
Okay that's bullshit. Yes in some baltic countries and western Ruthenia, the germans were greeted warmly. The Ruthenians still vividly remembered the Holdomor, and the Baltics had only recently been taken over. But that tiny support quickly evaporated once the Nazis started fucking everyone up. Get your Nac Soc propaganda out of here.

>>2832192

It's actually in the Geneva conventions, which Germany was party to. Don't sign treaties if you don't intend to follow them.

>>2832197

Yes, it had everything to do with Nazi ideology. The idea that Hitler cared about Holodomor in the slightest is silly, because he was planning a much larger famine that would kill off most of the Soviet population. The deliberate starvation of Ukraine by the USSR will forever be one of history's greatest crimes, but it would have been surpassed by several magnitudes if Operation Barbarossa had succeeded.

>>2832209

This is actually true. However, all that goodwill quickly evaporated once it became clear that the Nazis were there to exterminate, not liberate.

>>2831744
Are stormfags pathological liars?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor_genocide_question

>>2832224
the tactics they use online reminds me of creationists actually.

>>2832209
They falsely believed that the Nazis will liberate them from the Soviet rule. In 1939 Western Ukrainians also welcomed the Red Army happy they were liberated from Polish "oppression". Many Ukrainians that joined the Nazis never even experienced holodomor.

>>2832174
You do realize that there was a food shortage in Germany before Germany had attacked the Soviets right?

As 1940 drew to a close, the situation for many of Europe's 525 million people was dire. With the food supply reduced by 15% by the blockade and another 15% by poor harvests, starvation and diseases such as influenza, pneumonia, tuberculosis, typhus and cholera was a threat. Former president Herbert Hoover, who had done much to alleviate the hunger of European children during World War I, wrote:

The food situation in the present war is already more desperate than at the same stage in the [First] World War. ... If this war is long continued, there is but one implacable end... the greatest famine in history.


Germany hadn't attacked the Soviets until 1941. You fucking commieboos from leddit and leftypol are truly a scourge. Go starve yourself to death.

>>2831726
Stalin was probably the greatest man who ever lived. A son of a shoemaker literally became the most powerful man in the world. Extremely well read and intelligent. Massively industrialized his country, turning it from a feudal shithole into a superpower. Saved millions of lives and the entire Slavic race, and he wasnt even Slavic. Still loved by tens of millons in the former Soviet Union. Somehow still hated by both nazis and ((())) 70 years after his murder (google Doctors Plot)

>>2832240
More leftypol shitposting

>>2831726
>his leadership saved his country from being overrun by the most terrifying, most genocidal regime in human history
Communists?

>>2832237
Why only 2% of Western POWs died in German camps and 57% of Soviet POWs?

>>2831783
>implying white nationalists don't consider the Kaiser one of the worst people in history
Do you even 1488?

>>2831929
Explain this: why would Jews, who were mostly merchants and shopkeepers at the time, support violent anti capitalism? You're a literal cretin. I would hate to see how you look like irl

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>>2832237

If it was so terrible, then Hitler should have surrender and spared his people 5 years of death and destruction. Refraining from invading the USSR also would have been a smart move. It is quite true that German civilians suffered at lot during WW2, but that was because of the stupidity and careless of their own government at the time, which chose to drag the entire country into an unwinnable war. If Hitler had simply refrained from invading other countries, all that pain and suffering would have avoided. But with all that being said, none of that compares with the horrors that Soviet civilians had to endure during the war. Entire towns were massacred by the Einsatzgruppen. The Soviets didn't even have the option to surrender, because they were facing a genocidal foe that would have killed them all to the very last man.

>>2832262
Not him but because of industrialization and factories you jackass. You think the merchants of those shopkeepers sold product that was made from thin air?

>>2832244
Wtf I hate Stalin now

>>2832276

Utterly retarded. Why would a private storeowner support state-run factories?

>>2831893
We live in a unique period in human history where Jews aren't run out. They've been hated longer than the Roman Empire existed.

Complaints have always been the same. Rootless cheap promoters of degeneracy and subverted of culture that act as parasites on their host and move on somewhere else after its destroyed.

Also even though the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is fake, it's also been scarily accurate in predicting history so far.

>>2832276
So Jews supported the government expropriation of their own usurous banks and businesses....... because of factories...... ._. Please dont have children

>>2832286
Except you are wrong. Jews weren't accused of promoting degeneracy and subverting cultures until 19th century. Before that they were accused of bloody sacrifices, coin debasement or working with enemies.

>>2832306
The Greeks disagree.

>>2832322
Source?

>>2832282
Fuck off with your Jewish "logic", shill. Rational thought and logic is just another Jewish hoax

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>>2832306
>Except you are wrong. Jews weren't accused of promoting degeneracy and subverting cultures until 19th century.

Except you're wrong.

>>2832328

Why even ask for a source? If he does give a source, it will just be from some kooky right-wing website.

>>2832333
Metropolis is from 1920s.

>>2832365
His point is people continued to falsely accuse them after the 19th century.

>>2832381
This is what I said.

>>2831726
Stalin could have done to Germans what they did to the Soviets after the end of the war, but he didn't.

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>>2832237

Okay, I looked up the quote from Herbert Hoover, and it appears that he visited Germany AFTER the war and that is the most likely origin for the quote in question. In other words, he said that in 1947, not 1940.

>>2832102

Not concentration camps, but POW camps. They were not intentionally starved.

>>2832414
They were starved and killed by the Nazis. The first gassing was tried on Soviet POWs.

>>2832414

They were most definitely starved intentionally. There is no question about it. This is obvious when you considered the conditions afforded to British or American POW's and compare them with the Hellish conditions that Soviet POW's were put through. And by the way, there is no clause in the Geneva conventions that says you are exempt from providing prisoners with humane treatment simply because it would be an inconvenience. If humane treatment is impossible, then the prisoners have to be released.

>>2832257

1) The Soviet soldiers were weakened because of the food rations in the Red Army were rather poor in 1941 and because they were often cut off from supplies for several weeks during encirclements before being eventually captured.


2) The logistical situation on the Eastern front that lead to German soldiers themselves not having suffiecient amounts of food at many occasions

3) Lack of local food stocks in the Soviet Union, which were brought back or destroyed by the Red Army

4) The fact that there was enough food to supply Western POWs doesn't mean that there was enough for millions of additional Soviets

>>2832446

1. Soviet rations are irrelevant because the POW's were held in German camps, therefore the Germans were legally responsible for providing humane treatment. They failed to do this.

2. Logistics is irrelevant. The Geneva conventions clearly state that if humane treatment cannot be provided in a specific area, then the POW's must be moved to a different location where humane treatment is possible.

3. Again, completely irrelevant. The prison camps were German, so the Germans had complete responsibility for ensuring ethical treatment of prisoners.

4. Doesn't matter. If you take prisoners without having the ability to feed them, then the responsibility is 100% yours. If humane treatment is impossible, then the POW's must be released.

>>2832435

The POWs that were gassed were likely not randomly selected but rather Jews, commissars or so called instigators

>>2832436

>And by the way, there is no clause in the Geneva conventions that says you are exempt from providing prisoners with humane treatment simply because it would be an inconvenience. If humane treatment is impossible, then the prisoners have to be released.

No, but it means that the reason for the mass starvation of POWs was not that the Nazis wanted all Russians dead. There was btw actually a significant number of POWs that were released already in 1941.

>>2832459

All your points are irrelevant for the question that was discussed: Whether POWs were intentionally starved or not.

>>2832471
>intentionally holds people in camps without food
>this is not intentionally depriving them of food

>>2832471

Starvation of POW's was deliberate and intentional. There isn't a shred of doubt about this. You say that there was a food shortage? Doesn't matter. If you unable to feed prisoners, then you must release the prisoners immediately or you are instantly held responsible.

>>2831766
>we only killed tens of millions because the bad guy killed millions!
take your retarded logic to /pol/.

>>2831787
>Stalin ordered via the Comintern for the German communist party not to collaborate with non-communist left-wing parties like the Social Democrats.
that was never going to happen. german communists never ever trusted the socdems after they used farright paramilitaries to crush their communist revolt in berlin. the socdems likewise really hated the communists.

>Then, in the spring of 1941, at a time when his generals and spies wer....
yeah i agree he did make the war a lot more awful than it had to be

>>2832466

When you take prisoners, you are responsible for providing humane living conditions. This is what the Geneva conventions say, and Germany signed this treaty. This is no clause in this treaty which allows a nation to deny food to prisoners simply because of a food shortage. America and Great Britain held up their end of the treaty. They had food rationing in their own countries, but they never used this as an excuse to starve POW's.

>>2832023
>It goes without saying that most of the green area on your map wasn't planned to be colonized by Germans.
your ignorance is showing. the WHOLE of eastern europe was designated for lebensraum i.e. removal of all natives to make way for german settlers.
>Of course, the population would be resettled elsewhere.
funny how germans exterminated populations instead of resettling them (mostly by working them to death). if they weren't exterminated, the nazis planned on making slavs into slave laborers to serve the new german settlers.

>There were no genocide plans.
it was absolutely implied in all of Hitler's eastern plans which called for a percentage of each countries population to be eliminated and another percentage designated for forced assimiliation.

>>2832478
>>intentionally holds people in camps without food
>>this is not intentionally depriving them of food

No, because they did not intentionally bring about the "without food" point

>>2832481

>Starvation of POW's was deliberate and intentional.

You have failed to prove this. There was a breach of legal norms, but this does not say anything about the intentions. Practically, it would have been very unwise to release millions of men, especially considering the partisan danger. Needless to say, the Allies didn't just release POWs either when there wasn't enough food.

>>2832466
Hitler called slavs subhuman back in the 20s in mein kampf. I never could understand why "white nationalists" would lionize a guy who wanted the largest Euro subgroup eradicated. Or do you also not see slavs as european?

>>2832535

You still haven't grasped that noone even argued that the treatment of Soviet POWs conformed with the Geneva Convention.

>>2832197
>"Le evil Nazi ideology"
just because its commonplace to say nazi ideology was inhumane DOES NOT make it false. have you actually read up on nazi ideology?

>>2832549
>Hitler called slavs subhuman back in the 20s in mein kampf.

I don't think they were explicitely called subhuman, he implied their racial inferiority however. This does not necessarily mean eradication, though.

>>2832209
>one scene from a documentary that might well have been propaganda footage staged by the nazis
>Im REDPILLD guiz XDD

>>2832542

The treatment itself is proof. You are not even denying that that the inhumane treatment occurred. You are simply trying to imply that it should be excused because of a "food shortage." Complete nonsense. There was food rationing in everything country that during WW2. This was not something unique to Germany, and it certainly does not excuse their monstrous treatment of Soviet POW's and Soviet civilians.

>>2832563
What's the fucking difference?

>>2832551

So then you have admitted that the German army starved Soviet POW's. Don't reply, because I know what you will say. You will try to insist that this was an "accident." Bullshit. There is no "accident" in international law. If you take prisoners are responsible for providing humane treatment, period. Claiming that this was an accident does not absolve you of responsibility. Quite the opposite.

>>2832099

Except that's bullshit and most estimates estimate much more

>>2832208

Hurrhurrhurrr not genocide11111

>>2832561

During this time period, Americans regarded the Japanese as being racially inferior. Despite this, the Americans never stooped so low as to intentionally starve Japanese POW's such as the Germans did to Soviet POW's. Japanese POW's held in the US were treated in accordance with Geneva convention. This is especially notable because the USA knew all too well that Japan would not reciprocate this honorable behavior towards American POW's. With this in mind, I cannot imagine any valid excuse for how Soviet POW's were treated by Nazi Germany. The only explanation is deliberate genocide by Nazi Germany against the Russian period. And we know from the Third Reich's own documents that this is true.

>>2832240

Really made me think

>>2831726

He was faced with a Broken country.

The Jews.

>>2832551
>can't think of any more arguments so falls back on whataboutism

>>2832301

>._.

Your Reddit is showing

>>2832343

"Everything I don't like is a kooky right wing site!"

>>2832644
>oh no i better attack him because i actually don't have any valid sources

>>2832642
who cares if he is? what matters is that he showed that your logic is retarded

>>2832563
Weird how the ''master race'' ended up being BTFO by a bunch of racial inferiors. Doesnt that in and of itself utterly discredit Hitlerism?

>>2832642
How do you know that that is reddit? Familiar with the place yourself?

>>2832640
>whataboutism

I see no whataboutism there. Do you know the meaning of that word?

>>2832566
>>2832579

I'm arguing that the starvation occured because of adverse conditions (which are not comparable to the situation on the Western front), not because of a plan to starve the POWs. Your referals to international law are straw men since I never argued in that direction. Other question: Would you say that German POWs that starved to death in the hands of the Soviets or the Western Allies were intentionally killed? Y/N

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>>2832653

The entire "Soviet human waves" meme was created by German commanders after the war who needed a way to explain why they were beaten by an "interior" foe. To be more specific, Friedrich von Mellenthin wrote an auto-biographical book which heavily promoted the "Clean Wehrmacht" myth while simultaneously slandering Russian soldiers as primitives who were successful only by sheer numbers. His book was widely read by western tank commanders, and it was accepted as factually true up until the late 1990's when the fall of the USSR allowed historians to access genuine Soviet war documents for the first time.

>>2832674

"Adverse conditions" are irrelevant. There is no clause in Geneva conventions stating that POW's may be denied access to food in "adverse conditions." You are admitting that Germany blatantly broke the treaty that they signed. You insist that this was an accident, but it does not matter. There is no "accident" in international law. Once you have taken prisoners, you are responsible for providing them adequate nourishment, regardless of "adverse conditions."

>>2832674
>whataboutism
i made a mistakes i thought you said german pows in soviet hands...

>>2832678
It doesn't even make sense from a logical POV. If you just retartedly send wave after wave of troops to their death you could never win a single battle

>>2831726
No, also you have to keep in mind most of the negative perception of him comes from western imperialist propaganda written up by the CIA during the Red Scare.

>>2832688

>but it does not matter.

It matters for the question "Was the unlawful treatment of Soviet POWs caused by an intentional plan to murder them or by the conditions?". I already told you five times that I didn't claim that it was conform with the conventions.

>>2832678
>successful only by sheer numbers.

That is true, more or less. The Soviets won by numbers, they sustained far greater casualties than the Germans, who were tactically superior for most of the war.

>>2831726
None of the brutality that stalin ordered was necessary to defeat an enemy nation that was simultaneously at war with the two other strongest empires on earth at that time. Much of the horror that he inflicted on his own citizens was due to his own paranoia.

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>>2832743

"By the conditions" is not a valid excuse because once you take prisoners, you are 100% responsible for "the conditions." The guards at these concentration camps had plenty to eat, so don't tell me that they couldn't deliver food.

>>2831726
If not for him, russia wouldn't have as ineffectice and under staffed officer corps at the beginning of the war.

>>2832756

There are many aspects of Stalin that I will never defend. But despite his many flaws (and paranoia was certainly one of them) he managed to save his country from complete annihilation. That deserves some credit.

>>2832752
5 countries couldn't beat the motherland.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stalingrad

>>2832224
>>2832234

Why do you anti white leftists believe any lies pedalled by leftypol?

WARNING: Ultimate Redpill contained herein. Do not follow this link if you don't want to have your entire worldview turned upside down without your consent. Last Warning!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctors%27_plot

Just weeks before his death, Stalin claimed Jews were trying to poison him.

After his death, the case was dropped and all relevant documents mysteriously disappeared.

Why did this happen? I don't understand. Why did they kill the one man who saved them from certain extermination? I'm very far left and consider myself a proud Stalinist. But I feel Stalins death raises some serious questions about some really serious issues.

>>2832759
"the conditions" as in >>2832446


>The guards at these concentration camps had plenty to eat, so don't tell me that they couldn't deliver food.

The prisoner to guard ratio was very high, especially at provisional camps close to the front. That said, in late 1941/early 1942 many German units at the front could not be adequately supplied with food (winter transport crisis).

>>2832783

I can't think of any person who did more to get white people killed than Hitler. What did he do with his armies? Attacked the French. Attacked the British. Attacked Norway. The Netherlands. Belgium. Poland. Russia. Czechoslovakia. United States. Canada. What the fuck was his problem? Why did he hate white people so much?

>>2832809

More irrelevant bullshit. The guards had food, and that means that it was possible to have food delivered. So why didn't they? Because they weren't even trying to keep the POW's alive in the first place.

No anti-hero, just hero.

>>2832824
>More irrelevant bullshit. The guards had food, and that means that it was possible to have food delivered.


>x amount of food could be delivered
>that means 100x could have been delivered as well

>>2832791
Both lefties and stormfags must be really confused by this. Both narratives are undermined completely

>>2832209
This is quite true. There were proposals of a Ukrainian liberation army of 100,000 to fight alongside the nazis against the soviets.

It all went away when Hitler declared them subhumans and told the German army they had to live off the land and take all their food from the Ukrainians leaving them to starve to death.

>>2832220
Germany signed all Geneva conventions and like treaties, it is Japan you are thinking of.
>>2832224
they twist truth to fit their beliefs

>>2832791
What segment of the population did Stalin NOT accuse of plotting against him while he was in power?

Perhaps the reason the case was dropped after his death is because it wasn't based in reality?

>>2831726
his leadership was terrible.
his tactics were simply 'all out attack' regardless of the hideous rate of casualties.
Once he began to realise how utterly shit he was, he had his military experts take a more direct role.
It was then that people that knew what they were doing made him look good - e.g Zhukov organising the pincer movement at Stalingrad

>>2832576
Well, he considered the German people inferior to Chinese. So it matters a bit she considering his opinions.

>>2832724
I grew up in a neighborhood full of Ukrainian immigrants. Dislike of the Soviet Union was very grassroots and personal there.

>>2832766
It was more despite his leadership than because of it. He made the problem much worse.

>>2831726
Does Hitler even qualify as a bad guy?

Yeah, he did lots of uncomfortable things. But at the end of the day, his leadership saved his country from being overrun by the most terrifying, most genocidal ideology in human history. If not for him, everybody in Europe would have been starved by the soviets. Yes, he killed thousands of innocent people, but in doing that, he saved millions. To borrow a literary term, Hitler should at least be considered an anti-hero in the context of history.

>>2832946

>We can ignore international law and treaties that we signed just because of mere inconvenience

>>2831744
Stalin was a full-blooded Georgian and oversaw persecution of many Jews, but okay Mr. Stormfag.

>>2833358

The same Chinese who were being massacred by his Japanese allies?

>>2831766
>>2831929
Nice meme. The revolutionaries in Germany weren't ruthless mass murderers like the Leninists and Bolsheviks.

>>2832946

Yes.

>>2832197
The Holodomor affected all of the USSR, and happened nearly a decade before Hitler invaded.

Communists are the most evil and broken people in world history.

Stalin was a capitalistic plot to install judeo-bolsheivik regimes in order to discredit and ruin communism. If it wasn't for Soviets then syndicalism never would have died out and we could live in true peace

>>2833559
>dood true communism has never been practiced xD

>>2833571
>Marxist-Leninism and syndicalism are the same thing

Leftists are pathetic

>>2833520
This

>>2832606
Nope, read any account of Stalin published after '91

>>2833571
>dood it doesn't matter if Stalin didn't fit the definition of communist or socialist cause he was the epitome of socialism cause US propaganda and Mises.org told me so xD

>>2834260
He identified as a Communist, was a Communist, and has been the leading figurehead of Communism in the 20th century

I can't remember her name but there was this really young girl who had her picture taken with Stalin and grew very famous in Soviet Union because of that.
An year went on, any she became irrelevant again, Stalin ordered her parents to be murdered for being "spies".
He was an evil son of a bitch without any doubt.

>>2834260
Stalin had a picture perfect Dictatorship of the Proletariat, a seemingly necessary step on the transition to a devolved Communist collective without borders or a government. Which is retarded and irresponsible, by the way.

>>2832752
>The Soviets won by numbers, they sustained far greater casualties than the Germans, who were tactically superior
Soviet casualties are absolutely bloated by the disastrous first 3 months of war and then further POW deaths.
Ratio for the rest of the war is far more reasonable. Especially if you consider that Germans were actually well dug in during their their retreat. Penetrating good defense rarely comes cheap.
While a nation with lesser manpower would not be able to do what gommies did, it wasn't just down to manpower.

>>2831726
>If not for him, everybody in Russia would have been killed by the Nazis
Ridiculous, that wouldn't be possible even if the Nazis wanted to do that.

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Nah, he was a good guy.
Killed more commies than Hitler.

>>2833246
>just a coincidence that literally every nation and patriotic national leader in history ended up clashing with Jewry, even an anti anti semite like Uncle Joe

>>2831726
>>>/pol/

>>2835616
>even an anti anti semite like Uncle Joe
Stalin was not pro-jewish. he was by most accounts an anti-semitic of sorts, but from the early 40s onward he did become more blatantly anti-semitic with his execution of jewish intellectuals and even more clearly in the doctor's plot he planned to implement before his death, which many have predicted would have led to a huge purge of jews (either through execution, gulag or dismissal) from all aspects of soviet society.

>>2834286
>he was a communist because he was a communist
great argument

>>2831726
>saved his country from being overrun by the most terrifying, most genocidal regime in human history

Mao's China?

>>2833559
>le joos are behind everything, so i invent a story to bend all the facts that make the joos responsible for every failure of my ideology in history
not sure if youre false flag or you have down syndrome

>>2835891
Why did such a kind hearted man as Stalin, who was in principle anti racist, turn against the Jews? He didnt want to do this, but for whatever reason he felt he had to

>>2833469
your post would be funny if it were true. communist regimes lasted many decades after stalin, you know that right? never during that time did soviets starve or genocide millions like the nazis did, however bad their governments were. Meanwhile Hitler managed to get tens of millions of people killed with his ideology in less than four years.

>>2833247
stalin fucked up but at least he was reflective enough to realize that he was out of his depth. hitler continued to make awful decisions over the heads of his generals to the very end.

>>2835616
>correlation implies causation
>my insinuations are true because i already have predetermined the joos are guilty for everything wrong in my life, including the fact that i will never be a chad living in my nationalist utopia where i get to take revenge on all my perceived enemies.

>>2835962
>Why did such a kind hearted man as Stalin, who was in principle anti racist, turn against the Jews?
Did you read my post, /pol/cuck? Who ever said stalin was anti-racist? Yes his ideology promoted equality of all sorts but the man himself was paranoid and prejudiced to a huge degree. By your logic Stalins also "for whatever reason" was also right to coordinate mass deportations of crimean tatars, cossacks, chechens, germans, koreans, jews and a bunch of other ethnic groups before, during and after the war. You wouldn't understand this though; /pol/cucks aren't known for understanding nuance

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>>2831726
You do realise Russia was victorious IN SPITE of Stalin not BECAUSE of him. So even your flimsy justification of his murder, subjugation, and oppression of the Russian and Soviet-bloc peoples falls apart with any real investigation. I mean shit, man, you can learn this shit fron wikipedia no less. 4/10 bait, i replied

>>2831726
Stalin is one of the most evil people who has ever walked the earth.

Evil is unspectacular and always human
And shares our bed and eats at our own table.

>t. W.H. AUDEN, Herman Melville

Apathy and evil. The two work hand in hand. They are the same, really.... Evil wills it. Apathy allows it. Evil hates the innocent and the defenseless most of all. Apathy doesn't care as long as it's not personally inconvenienced.

>t. JAKE THOENE, Shaiton's Fire

One may smile, and smile, and be a villain!

>t. WILLIAM SHAKESPEARE, Hamlet

“I live in the Managerial Age, in a world of "Admin." The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" that Dickens loved to paint. It is not done even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."

>t C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters

>>2831726
>he killed thousands of innocent people
>thousands
OH BOY TANKIE MASS-MURDER DENIAL THREAD
HERE COME THE "BUT NAZIS WERE LITERALLY NAZIS" APOLOGISTS

>>2836254
there's no rule saying you can't acknowledge that stalin did awful things and that the nazis did and would do even more awful things.

>>2836254

I'm not denying anything. Stalin was a mass-murdering tyrant. There is no question about that. But he still ultimately saved Russia from an even greater mass genocide. Could somebody else have done it better? Maybe, or maybe not.

>>2835986
Lmao

>>2831726
One good deed doesn't negate the bad

You can be a hero and a villain at the same time

first define, what is a bad guy

>>2835981
Those ethnic groups by and large supported the Germans. Very few died during deportation. Alternative would have been pogroms by pissed Slavs, killing far more innocents. Just further shows you Stalins benovelonce and eternall kindness, still living on in the hearts of hundreds of millions of people

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>>2831744
Myth. His politburo barely had any Jews in it, pic related

>He was a half Jew,

No he wasnt

>his fathers last name was Jughashvili, which means Son of the Jew in Georgian.

Lol, no it doesn't. "Dzhuga" refers to the mountain clans and nearby river in the region he was born in.

>If you combine ALL of Stalin's deaths vs. JUST the holocaust, you get more yes. If you include ALL of Stalin's deaths vs. ALL of Hitler's deaths, you get much more for Hitler.

Why are /pol/tards so dumb

>>2832783
Prove to me that Stalin's last name means son of a Jew in Georgian

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>>2832209
Then the Germans started massacring even more people than the Soviets which is why the number of anti-German resistance fighters in 1944 was far above the number of German collaborator militia

P.S., Hitler was a cuck just like you

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>>2832209
>Leaves out that Polish Ukrainians welcomed the Soviets as liberators in 1939

really makes me think

>>2836403
>Those ethnic groups by and large supported the Germans.
Proof? And even if they did collective punishment is retarded. It also doesn't explain the fact why many other ethnic groups were deported BEFORE the world war.

> Very few died during deportation.
false. anyway many died because they couldn't adjust to drastic change of living in central asia.

>Alternative would have been pogroms by pissed Slavs, killing far more innocents.
you think the soviets would have tolerated that? also many of these ethnic groups live separate or far away from russian slavs.

Stalin did not always have good intentions. But that doesn't matter to you because your trying to find an excuse to push your "muh eturnal joo" narrative

>>2832791
>hurrr why was it dropped?

Because it was BS and yet another fantasy used to repress people. People were arrested in the 1930s and sent off to Siberia on charges of putting nails in butter at restaurants.

You only choose to believe the Doctors Plot is real despite every evidence to the contrary simply because it confirms you hysteria over Jews

>>2836669

To add on to this, lot's of stuff was dropped the moment Stalin died. That Gulag system fell apart almost as soon as Stalin was buried. Khrushchev had the entire system dismantled, and thousands of political prisoners were released. The entire Soviet media was also liberalized greatly during the Khruschev era, which unfortunately was undone by Brezhnev. Beyond that, Stalin had pet projects in the Soviet military that were canned as soon as he died, the most obvious being the Stalingrad-class battlecruiser project which was painfully out of place in a post-WW2 navy.

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>>2836657

Yea, they were nice enough to liberate my illiterate proletariat Polish grandfather right into a Siberian Coal Mine at the earliest opportunity.

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>>2834257
>1991
>40 years after Stalin
>1991
>literally when academia is full of marxists
>implying any of them would make /theirguy/ look bad

>>2835964
>never did Soviets starve or genocide millions, except their own
ftfy

>>2837057
I don't know where this idea comes from that modern academia whitewashes Stalin.

It's literally the opposite. Once the Kremlin archives opened up the full extent of stalinist terror came to light and a flurry of biographies were written that highlighted it.

The most popular book on Stalin today is probably Court of the Red Tsar by Simon (((Montefiorre))) who goes out of his way to showcase Stalin doing crazy shit all the time (with citations of course).

The only pro-Stalinist revisionism I see produced in any large number comes from "based" Putin's russia.

>>2831726
Is this a fucking joke? How can someone be this fucking uneducated? Is this an example of a product straight out of today's educational system?

>Nazis were the "most terrifying, most genocidal regime"

Let's assume for a second that the 6 gorillion was true. So then I assume that's what you go by when it comes to classifying Hitler as the "most genocidal". That was, supposedly, 6 million Jews that were murdered within a time span of 6 years. Now let's look at Stalin.. the man genocided 7 to 10 million Ukrainians within the time span of a fucking year.

>he killed thousands
No, he killed tens of millions. Beyond what I've listed above he also actively persecuted Christians in attempts of imposing "Scientific Atheism". The Christian victims of the Soviet regime range from 12 to 20 million.

>>2831726
>Does Stalin even qualify as a bad guy?
>triggered
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Operation_of_the_NKVD
My mothers & her family barely escaped death because of this fuck.

If I could, I would beat you like a bad stepchild.

>>2838199

So? Better than being gassed at Auschwitz. You need to look at the big picture and not focus so much on one incident.

>>2837057
Academy was its Marxist from the 1950s-1970s. On decline ever since.

The current glut of scholars, as well as rising tuition prices, means university faculty are more right-wing than ever.

>>2838199
Poles shouldn't exist.

>create a country just for Jews in Russia
>make antisemitism punishable by death
Leftypol retards actually believe Stalin wasn't a Jewish p

>>2831726
>Does Stalin even qualify as a bad guy?

yes he does commie faggot

>>2831726
What a good guy, saved a country from genocide carrying genocide himself. Also
>thousands
Are you this brainwashed?

>>2838188
>Hitler dubs
It's interesting how you either are skeptic of the six million claim or assume it is not true therefore not finding the testimonies, demographic studies and documents supporting that number reliable yet you don't seem to have the same skepticism for the tens of millions figures attributed to Stalin as if such estimations were made by some other superior method or as if testimonies, documents and demographic studies used or estimations on Soviets are reliable proof but not the ones used for estimations on nazis.
You also neglect to mention the other millions killed by nazi regime (Poles and Soviet POWs among others).

Both regimes were genocidal. Both /pol/ and /leftypol/'s propaganda spewers should leave.

>>2838852
If antisemitism was punishable by death, Stalin would be first to hang. He and his cronies deliberately imposed obstacles to make it harder for Jews to serve in the government, purged most Jews from high office, and told the newspapers to refer to prominent Jews by their (((traditional Yiddish name))) like Bronshtein or Cohen if they were better known by a Russian name. At the end of his life, Stalin became increasingly antisemitic and was convinced that Jewish doctors were trying to kill him and other Soviet officials.

The Soviet Union was anything but "just for Jews".

Stalin defeated the nazis so I don't think he's a bad guy

>>2838188
the holocaust proper began in 1941 and ended in 1945, around 4 to 5 years, during which time the rate of killing varied from period to period, so you're characterization is warped. more importantly, the Nazis were responsible for a European war that killed tens of millions of people, during which millions starved in Eastern Europe as a direct result of Nazi policies.

>the man genocided 7 to 10 million Ukrainians within the time span of a fucking year.
the range is anywhere from 2.5 to 12 million and you purposely chose the higher figure because you want to make Stalin look as bad as possible. Timothy Snyder estimates that 5 million in all died in the famine, including Ukrainians.

>No, he killed tens of millions.
I like how you emphasize that the victims were "christian", as though the Soviet only killed and directed their killing at Christians, which is absolutely false.
Stalinism maybe resulted in 10 to 20 million dead, which is not the same as "tens of millions," which implies a death toll of 30 million and above.

>>2837079
nice strawman, /pol/ack. It's well known that there were no mass starvations akin to the stalinist era in the Eastern bloc after world war two. that's fact. Yes their governments were authoritarian and shitty by many standards, but that's not the point here.

>>2837057
>The numbers after the Soviets released their records and were no longer a political antagonist are less accurate than the numbers we published while at a propoganda war

Don't post retarded opinions please

>>2833500
>stalin persecuted jews
Who is Beria, and why are you lefty niggers so poor at history? Jews killing other jews that are perceived as a threat are not persecutors, they are just displaying their genes.

>>2833520
(((communists)))

>>2832224
Typical lefty... airbrushing history till it paints the narrative they so desire.

>>2842475
Beria was a Georgian. He wasn't a Jew.

>>2832240
>stalin the great
He was a petty criminal, on the streets of Tbilisi, cruised the streets of Moscow looking for 12 year old girls, he was a worthless piece of shit.

>>2842475
beria wasn't jewish

why are /pol/estinians so dumb

>>2831816
No it doesn't. While Hitler seized more control over the military as the war progressed Stalin relinquished control to his generals. The Soviets lost nearly every battle and suffered extreme losses while he was in control. Have you heard a Stalin speech? It sounds like a high school student forced to speak in front of the class. The dumbass couldn't even accept that a German invasion occurred and his people paid the price for it. Not that he cared about his people anyways.

>>2842703
Yet Stalin defeated Hitler, despite presiding over a smaller and much less industrialized population.

Guess his strategy worked.

>>2831744
http://semiticcontroversies.blogspot.com.ar/2009/02/was-josef-stalin-jewish.html

>>2842703

Stalin intentionally dumbed down his manner of speaking when speaking in public. He liked to present himself as a country bumpkin. It was part of his "man of the people" image that he liked to project, and beyond that it was a mask to hide his true nature as a ruthless manipulator. When Stalin was first appointed to the position of General Secretary, this position was a purely administrative and disciplinary role. It was only through Stalin's deliberate scheming that the position became that of the de-facto dictator of the USSR. Stalin thoroughly enjoyed the advantages of being under-estimated, and he deliberately cultivated them. This was also how he was able to get American President Franklin D. Roosevelt to trust him. Stalin constantly played the role of a dumb, but well-intentioned buffoon around Roosevelt and FDR fell for it completely.

sometimes you guys are kind of silly

>>2843757
I think only a sociopath would be inclined to have others underestimate themselves. Usually people want to boast and showoff.

>>2831744
Stalin didn't cause many more deaths than Hitler. Hitler started World War 2, so all the casualties of the European theater can be attributed to him.

>>2831726
I wonder if this is a bait thread or just made by someone who never liked history anyway.

>saved his country from being overrun by the most terrifying, most genocidal regime in human history

This has to be fucking bait. Unless he somehow meant Red China although I still think USSR was no 1 worst regime.

>>2842703
Fuck you retard. Stalin's speeches are legendary. Unlike Hitler, he didn't make a hysterical fool out of himself. He was calm, composed, and always highly intelligent

He gave this speech while the Germans were 20km away from Moscow. They could see the Kremlin in their binoculars.

The speech itself is widely credited for boosting Soviet morale and helping Stalin clinch his first victory in the war - the battle of Moscow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IGbjPqFFvA

>>2843870
He isn't wrong. Hitler killed much more people in Eastern Europe than Stalin.

>>2843991
Even when we take all victims Hitler didn't kill more people than Stalin.

>>2844002
He clearly did. Sorry, but 60 million people killed by Stalin is a myth. Even 20 million is too much.

>>2832119
>industrialising and modernising a nation requires blood shed

Why the was the Industrial revolution of Brittain relatively smooth?

>>2844002
Literally every death in Europe between 1939 and 1945 can be attributed to Hitler's decision to wage total war on everyone on the continent. That's some 30 million or more dead

>>2844022
>Even 20 million is too much
Not the anon you were talking to but how did you conclude that?

>>2844078
Do you consider workers dying in their 20s after a life of working 14+ hours per day every day since their childhood to be "relatively smooth"?

>>2844126

Estimates for deaths occurring inside the Gulag system vary, but the general range seems to be from 2 million to 3 million deaths, occurring between 1929 and 1953. While the tragedy of the Gulags should never be minimized, they simply didn't kill as many people as the Operation Reinhard camps did. The Reinhard camps killed at least 3 million people in a span of just 6 years. Combine this with deaths which occurred in other concentration camps and the death toll exceeds 12 million. All this occurred in just the period of 1939 - 1945.

>>2831726
If Russia didn't industrialise as fast then Germany wouldn't be so scared of commies
If the nazis didn't come to power then Poland might make a new KANGdom

>>2844219
>If Russia didn't industrialise as fast then Germany wouldn't be so scared of commies
Hmmm, so that's why Hitler thought that Russia would crumpled in Barbarossa? Nope, he severely underestimated the industrial capacity of the Soviet Union. Besides that the Nazis were already rabidly anti-communist, as demonstrated by their annihilation of the German communist party.

>>2844209
This. All those huge numbers came from wrong estimates. Less people died in Soviet labor camps than we thought.

>>2844235
Yes but people only tolerate the nazis because they think the communists are ready for war

>>2842758
I guess you didn't read the post. People like Zhukov and Vasilevsky won the war, Stalin was a terrible commander.

>>2832262
They wanted to literally enslave all non-Jews so they wouldn't have to work as merchants and shopkeepers. Some Jewish Bolsheviks admitted this openly.

>>2844279
Please, stormfag, be our guest and post sources of "jewish bolsheviks" admitting to wanting to "literally enslave all non-Jews".

>>2844258
i'd need a source on that. otherwise it's mere speculation. your assertion is also belied by the fact that the UK and the USA allied with Stalin the year Hitler launched Barbarossa and Roosevelt provided lend-lease before such the alliance became official.

>>2844126
Holodomor killed 10-12 millions on highest estimates, gulags killed at worst 4-5, you could add another 3 millions from great purge (and there's some overlap with gulags anyway).
At highest estimates Stalin barely hits 20 million corpses.

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>>2844248

There are ways to get Stalin's death toll higher. The 2-3 million figure is just for the Gulag system. There were plenty of cases where supposed enemies of the state were simply shot instead of being imprisoned in Gulags. The overall death toll for the entire Stalinist period is, at minimum, 15 million with the true number being higher than that. This is coming from Robert Conquest's book "The Great Terror." I do however agree with the assessment that Hitler ultimately killed more people, and would have killed FAR more people had he not been stopped.

>>2844342
The Great Terror is a very old book. In 1990s some Soviet archives were opened so now we know that those early numbers were exaggerated. It's true that many historians consider these documents and statistics incomplete, but it's rather hard to believe that 20 million people died in Soviet labor camps when secret NKVD statistics show that "only" 1.5 million or so died.

It's similar with deportations. Official statistics show that 360.000 Poles were deported to Kazakhstan and Siberia. Cold War estimates ranged from 500.000 to 2 million. So even if these documents are incomplete it's very unlikely that more than 500.000 people were deported.

>>2844209
There's also the Holodomor, the Great Purge, the deaths from deportations among other atrocities. Besides, people who made a census that reflected a lower population than Stalin expected were killed, Soviet statistics are dubious.

>>2832119
>Regardless of his beliefs (which were in fact communism, no matter how much commies want to sperg out and say otherwise)
>"Joseph – who exactly are you now?" "Do you remember the tsar? Well, I'm like a tsar"
Does that sound like someone who gives a fuck about communism?

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>>2844384

Robert Conquest went back and revised "The Great Terror" in response to the Soviet Archives being opened up, producing a new edition called "The Great Terror: A Reassessment." The 15 million figure comes from this version, whereas the original version estimated 20 - 30 million.

>>2844416

Why do communists insist on being judged purely on rhetoric rather than shit they actually did?

>>2844404
They were killed to prevent the less than impressive numbers from leaking out and said statistics were never published.
Internal soviet documents are a separate subject from something they openly published and can be trusted. There's a ton of dirt there that they didn't even try to hide because nobody was going to see it until it didn't matter .

>>2843974
that video just backs up what the anon you're responding to said about him being like a child in front of a classroom reading from a page
he even trips over his words at around the 3 minute mark

Hitler was undeniably a better speaker, that isn't up for debate at all

>>2831893
Jews being relatively very successful + Jews generally keeping to themselves + Jews spread all over the world + Normal fear and hatred of the different

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>>2843974
>tankie uploader
>over 1 million views
>only 58 comments from years ago
kek at least he's following in papa stalin's footsteps

>>2844493
It's the exact opposite though, you're labeling him as a communist based on rhetoric rather than the shit he did.

Stalin's speeches are some of the greatest things ever conceived.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nMDjKtTigQ

Here is his final speech in 1952, shortly before his murder, where he defends nationalism against globalism:

>Earlier, the bourgeoisie, as the heads of nations, were for the rights and independence of nations and put that "above all." Now there is no trace left of this "national principle." Now the bourgeoisie sell the rights and independence of their nations for dollars. The banner of national independence and national sovereignty has been thrown overboard. Without doubt, you, the representatives of the communist and democratic parties must raise this banner and carry it forward if you want to be patriots of your countries, if you want to be the leading powers of the nations. There is nobody else to raise it. (Stormy applause.)

Victory speech 1945: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt0SACqvubg

"Oh shit" speech in July, right when the Germans were steamrolling through Western Russia. You can tell he's extremely stressed and nervous. The entire fate of his people depended on his decisions:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSTQ7HTHMvo

>>2844559

He didn't trip up once, you don't even speak Russian so you wouldn't be able to tell anyway.

Hitler was a pathetic public speaker, squirming and screaming like a hysterical bitch. Just more evidence he was an effeminate homosexual.

>>2844589
He realized it will be impossible to defeat unified Western World. It was also the reason why he was pushing for unified but neutral Germany.
NATO was formed in 1949 and there were talks about creating EDC.

Stalin was a totalitarian dictator dreaming of conquering the whole Europe (and later the world).

>>2844602
t.Ivan Stalinonovich Stalinovsky

>>2844457
Snyder estimates that 9-10 million died under Stalin's rule.

I would say that 20 million is easily possible if we include pre-Stalin years (1917-1953 period).

>>2844616

Stalin tried to have good relations with the West and in part his ambitions helped bring about the UN. FDR was very fond of Stalin, one of the main reasons FDR was poisoned by the British

>>2831726
He killed tens of millions of people, far more than the Nazi's.

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>>2844732
>countless people in the thread have shown that hitler killed more than the nazis
>maybe if i keep repeating it people will believe it's true! hahaha, hitler was epic they're forcing me to lie for him because they're refusing to see how aesthetic the nazis were XDD
sad!

>>2844762
than stalin*

>>2844002
He did.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2011/03/10/hitler-vs-stalin-who-killed-more/

>>2844795
Snyder is a fraud

>>2844720
Like in Greece, or in Korea, or during Berlin blockade.

Or when this happened:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_territorial_claims_against_Turkey

Or when they rigged elections in East European countries, or when they staged a coup in Czechoslovakia in 1948.

Yes, they were our greatest ally.

>>2844812
Bloodlands' bibliography is really impressive. He definitely isn't a fraud.

>>2844602
Apparently Stalin wasn't very good at speaking Russian either because by all accounts he had an incredibly thick Georgian accent.

>>2844638

I haven't read Bloodlands yet but I'm definitely planning to. I will accept Timothy D. Snyder as a legitimate source.

>>2844834

You should read this instead

https://www.amazon.com/Blood-Lies-Evidence-Accusation-Bloodlands/dp/0692200991

BLOOD LIES: The Evidence that Every Accusation against Joseph Stalin and the Soviet Union in Timothy Snyder's "Bloodlands Is False

It has a much more impressive bibliography than Bloodlands itself

>>2837089
This guy fucks

>>2833510

Fortunately, they never gained the opportunity to do so.

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>>2831726

Meh, the West wouldn't be in such a dire situation should Germany have won.

>>2831726
>most genocidal regime in human history.

Where did you learn that from? History channel?

>>2844847

Okay, how plausible does it sound that every single accusation in Bloodlands is innacurate? Is the author, Furr Grover, attempting to suggest that nobody was unjustly killed within USSR? Looking at his other books, he also accuses Nikita Khrushchev of lying. He argues that Nikita Khrushchev's famous February 1956 denouncement of Stalin was, in fact, based on lies and not a single accusation by Khrushchev was accurate. Again, how plausible does that sound? That Khrushchev completely made everything up? Why would he do that? The most bizarre claim by this "Furr Grover" is that Katyn Forest Massacre was committed not by the NKVD, but rather that it was a hoax perpetrated by the Nazis, which is flatly absurd. Mikhail Gorbachev himself admitted that the NKVD was responsible, and in 2010 the Russian government passed a declaration stating that Stalin was directly responsible for the Katyn Forest Massacre.

>>2844812
>anyone who disagrees with me is a fraud

>>2845046

Furr goes through literally every single citation and footnote. He finds that most are obscure Polish and Ukrainian nationalist sources. When he found them after a lot of work, many of the claims Snyder made were not supported by the sources.

Kruschev made it up because it served the class interests of the nomenklatura. Stalin was the only thing that forced them to care about the Soviet working class.

Gorbachev and Kruschev are not good sources, nor are Ukrainian and Polish fascists

>>2831726
Stalin's regime was much more cruel and deadly than Hitler's. Many countries were occupied by Germany and had nothing wrong with it.
Ofc, his was Georgian with Jewish roots and was doing all for Jews. He killed Kirov and later other top Russian communists by "Leningrad case".

>>2845125
>>2844988
you know the drill
>>>>/pol/

>>2844762
Why do you leftytpol SJWs so tupid that you actually believe that Stalin killed less people?

>>2845201
Why do you SJW retards want a leftist safespace?

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>>2845102

>Gorbachev and Kruschev are not good sources, but Stalin is

>>2845239

There is simply no way that Stalin somehow killed more people. At least 12 million people died in the German camps, in a span of just 6 years. And this does not even include deaths that occurred by Einsatzgruppen death squads.

>>2845271
>post no proof whatsoever to back up your bullshit
I await your leftist SJW blog post defended Stalin and BLM

>>2831726
The Gulag Archipelago.
just read some books befor you start tolkin boolshits

>>2845354

Nobody in this thread has denied the existence of the Gulags or the tragedy that they represent.

>>2845125
Would you name one country that had nothing wrong with being occupied by Germany?
Also, would you cite the evidente on Stalin being jewish?http://semiticcontroversies.blogspot.com.ar/2009/02/was-josef-stalin-jewish.html

>>2844497
Those statistics obviously weren't secret to everyone, certainly not for the people ho were meant to read them. Also, what makes you think there was a point in time where they thought the disclosure of those archives wouldn't matter?

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>>2845354
>Natalya Reshetovskaya, Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's first wife, wrote in her memoirs that "The Gulag Archipelago" was based on "campfire folklore" as opposed to objective facts. She wrote that she was perplexed that the Western media had accepted The Gulag Archipelago as "the solemn, ultimate truth", saying its significance had been "overestimated and wrongly appraised". She said her husband did not regard the work as "historical research, or scientific research", and "The Gulag Archipelago" was a collection of "camp folklore", containing "raw material" which her husband was planning to use in his future productions.

>>2845488
Better provide full bio of all his granpas and grandmas or at least their names. He was hiding information even after becoming dictator.

>>2845239
>>2845245
It's a joke, retard. I can't make you leave this board. But I am allowed to point out that you're stormfag drivel is shitting up this board.

>you actually believe that Stalin killed less people?
When did I ever say that? Did you fail at reading comprehension?

>>2845564
>being a stormfag is bad
>but being an SJW like you is okay
kill yourself, leftypol shill

Stalin was great, only butthurt anti-communists hate him because they can't stomach how he made socialism powerful and smashed fascism

>>2845530
>bait
If he hid it so well how did anyone come to know it? Oh, that's right, because you're willing to believe any rumor that supports your childish worldview.

>>2845572
>wahhh everything I don't like is leftypol
By admitting you're a stormfag you're also admitting that you don't care about facts or history except when you twist them to fit your ideological narrative. If you're willing to live like that it's fine with me, but stop spreading your cancer to this board.

>>2845594
You're responding to a recurrent /pol/ shitposter. You can recognize him because he starts sperging about some SJW and anti-white fantasies even if the discussion is completely unrelated, and always posts the same pics.

>>2845594
>but stop spreading your cancer to this board.
not your safspace, you SJW faggot

>>2845605
you leftists have such a persecution complex

>>2831929
>mmuh soviets
>must mean russians were behind it

soviet (n.)
From Russian sovet "governing council," literally "council," from Old Russian suvetu "assembly," from su "with" (from *su(n)- "with, together," from PIE *ksun- "with") + vetu "counsel." The whole is a loan-translation of Greek symboulion "council of advisers." As an adjective from 1918.

>>2845594
>>2845605
Why do you SJWs believe that /his/ is their safespace?

>>2845582
Man with surname "Son of Jew" hiding his ancestors - 99% Jew. There arent any counter-proofs.

>>2845614
>criticizes others of playing the victim
>meanwhile he's claims of being persecuted by imaginary sjws and commies on a fucking hawaiian coconut water distillery forum
lmao

>not your safspace, you SJW faggot
nice one. maybe try to squeeze in a few more buzzwords next time, /pol/drone? since you're reading my posts so literally, i'll spell it out for you in plain english: i have no power to control what you do or say here or whether you stay or leave. i don't care, but i'd rather this be a "safespace" that values facts than a /pol/ shithole that has no basis in fact.

>>2845702
>WAAAH I ONLY WANT MY LEFTIST SJW SHIT TO BE ALLOWED HERE
>>>/leftypol/

>>2845530
>Proving that Stalin is not a jew
Lol, I think the burden of proof is on those who claim he had jewish roots.

>>2845662
Google Translate tells me that 'jew' in Georgian is 'ebraeli'.

this board has gone to shit because all those sjws

>waah lets ignore history and replace it with emotions and how EVIL figures were
>anyone that tries to logically explain his opinion should be labeled a stormfag or commie
>good and evil
fucking summerfags

>>2845719
>so delusional he thinks lefties are attacking him
have you taken your meds today?

>>2845887
>says the faggot who is probably on estrogen

>>2831726
oh yeah he "saved" the russians from the nazi and killed them himself instead

>>2845905
boy, you're really obsessed about faggots and trannies, aren't you? someone must have touched you as a kid. pretty degenerate for a /pol/ack if you ask me

>>2845977
>pretty degenerate for a /pol/ack if you ask me
nobody cares what you SJWs think

>>2845984
good. so you agree you're degenerate. what a specimen you are!

>>2844333
What about people killed by the regime unofficially? Soviet stats are dubious.

>>2844497
Dude, they shot people because of an unfavorable census, they erased people from pictures. The latter alone makes stats extremely dubious.

>>2844002
Only if you rely on Cold War era "60 gorillion" estimations made based on population projections rather than actual data.

I don't believe any credible historian these days believes Stalin's body, famine included, is above 22 million.

>>2845239
>leftypol
>sjws

>>2846109
Some of those statistics are already over two times the official numbers where official numbers exist.

>>2844895
They never intended to do so, as far as we know.

>>2844988
Fake quote. No evidence it exists

It really tingles my neurons that almost every quote or fact posted by /pol/ (this, Dzhugashvili
means "son of a jew", beria was jewish, etc.) is completely fake

>>2846891
They did. Read more

>>2846937
I've never encountered a group of people so willing to lie about anything and everything.

>>2832099
Commissar came, shot a man for not working hard enough, it's German fault.

>>2846993
Rosa Luxemburg was democratic as all hell and a vocal critic of the Bolsheviks

>>2847212
woops, I misunderstood your post

>>2832633
That is well and fine and all, but then look at how German POW's were treated by Russians.

>>2846937
>>2847006
>this is what leftypol shills actually believes
You subhumans are so ignorant

>>2845662
How then do you explain his lifelong distrust of Jews?