Why do pseuds dislike music

Being daft is quite common amongst humans

>>2825014
internet autism has two concrete symptoms that apply to most all cases:

1. hatred of anything that requires imagination and intuition, which is why they're all NEETs

and

2. the belief that being depressive and anti-social are signs of intelligence rather than symptoms of brain damage

intelligent people dont brag about how smart they are on the internet except to troll pseud brainlet aspies

>>2825411
This.Also the people who claim to dislike music probably just listen to mongoloid kpoop

>some people will live their entire lives without listening to Beethoven's music
>they won't even know what music is (was) capable of
>they will live their entire lives thinking that music is some sound that is played in the background at parties
>they will never know what they missed

>>2825014
Music is the lowliest of art forms

>>2825450
And weeb music.

>>2825498
>he hasn't listened to the cantatas of Bach, the madrigals of Gesualdo or the sonatas of Beethoven

@2825498
Turbo pleb. No (You) for you.

>>2825498
lol

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>>2825014
All the physicists I know love music more then life plus most philosophers love music unless they're neets like Kant

>>2825498
Music is the only good art form besides paintings

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>>2825690
>what is architecture

>>2825859
>what is [my favourite art form]

because it doesn't really do anything to the world at large

>b-but muh rock
counter-culture was brought by the drugs and sex rather than the music (rock came as a result)

>>2825883
t.pseud

>>2825873
When your post can counter your own argument you know you've got a shitty argument.

>>2825883
though don't think I'm bullying music alone

all art is worthless (except maybe architecture for "you kinda need to have a house" reasons).

>>2825859
Yeah but architecture is objectivly the greatest thing ever regardless if it's art or not

>>2825883
Na rock very much started the decadence into drugs I think lsd market went up like 400% in 1967 after the release of the Sgt. Peppers

>>2825927
Nice hot take faggot

>>2825859
That's more for utility than art.

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>>2826571
>utility
A skyscraper is for utility. These are massive extravagant Churches built for aesthetic reasons.

>>2825014
Because the people on this board don't know what they want

>>2825883
One point for music then I guess, the world is good as it is. Also, "rock" isn't music/art.

>>2826984
He's denying the fact that 70s funk and other rock movements did play a huge vital role in shaping the society of american culture (and world culture) but not in a good way

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>>2825469
Truly I pity them, but they might not even be able to comprehend it.
>>2825498
Music is the only art that makes life worth living.

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>>2825681
>mfw the tweets real

>>2827218
Looks Slavic

>>2826571
"Architecture is frozen music."
-Goethe

>>2825014
But they don't? They jack off to classical music and how they're above plebs listening to popular shit like quite a lot of people ITT.

>>2827246
Classical is technically popular I guess he's saying all music there are some philosophers who hate all art ecpecially music.Those people will always be more pedantic and insufferable then people who listen to exclusively classical

>>2827280
>listening to anything other than classical
Ok pleb

>>2827280

>there are some philosophers who hate all art ecpecially music

Because music in ancient times was often associated with depraved behavior. Granted, when they said music, they didn't mean a hymn, or a dirge, or anything of that kind. They meant party music that you would hear from bards and so on.

And if you want to get a sense of why philosophers hated fiction and music like that, read Augustine. He gives a very good explanation. He talks about how he would ignore his realm problems and go watch plays as a kid. These would absolve him of his unresolved real life emotions, and make him feel better, even though nothing was solved.

Basically, they thought this was a cowardly way to hide away from your real problems. And then Christianity came along and it seemed doubly irreverent, because people were trying to create things in the same way as God does. There's a reason fiction took so long to take off, and why the novel is such a recent invention.

For the record, not everyone thought this way. Aristotle, for example, saw plays and any kind of artistic enterprise as a good thing, done within moderation. I mean the guy even wrote a how-to on screenwriting, so...

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>>2827303

>the world has advanced beyond anyone's reckoning but only music from 300 years ago is good

>being this much of a delusional faggot

>>2827316
Of course with classical I mean what is commonly known as such so romanticism, baroque, etc are also included

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>>2827303
>not listening to fractol chord glistened Austrian throat humming with automatic synth wave progression finely tuned with symphonic fuck choir
Step away plëb and into the lake of fire you go!

>>2827334
Shut the fuck I am superior to you and everybody on this board including this fag >>2827316
, show some respect you worthless tadpole

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>>2827336

>>2827336
Fuck off mongoloid the only thing you even resemble equality to is an outcasted plankton waiting to be eaten by something too fierce for your comprehension

>>2827336
Kyself

>>2825498
Im pretty sure funneling paint into your colon and then shitting it out onto a canvas is worse.

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>>2827336

>>2827316
Classical music didn't stop 300 years ago you know...

Try listening to Terry Riley, you might like it.

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>tfw you find out plebersins hate Germans on this board

>>2827356

Orchestral doesn't mean classical.

Are there any pieces of music for deaf people?

>>2827398
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTEFKFiXSx4

>>2827316
>the world has advanced beyond anyone's reckoning but only music from 300 years ago is good
As Sprengler said: Western culture peaked int the end of the 18th century.
Technological progress will still continue, but as people are coming more and more stupid, it will stall too.

Music is sinful and listening to it should be a criminal offence

>>2827849
omg why

>>2827868
Music distracts you from God

>>2827920
Bach's music makes you think about God, and no major institution denies it
What about that?
What about hymns and masses? Music can be ridicolously religious.

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>visit Morocco in Christmas
>discover that due to the Islamic influence music is regarded as an inferior art by everyone in North Africa and the Middle East

>tfw Mohammed was probably surrounded by hack party musicians who only played music for drunk people
>tfw had Mohammed listened to a highly geometrical, analytical and contemplative composer such as Bach we would know also have another millenary music tradition

>tfw of all prople Luther (that vulgar peasant) was the best thing happened to music in history

Eh.

>>2827849
>>2827920

t. Ajatollah Chomeini

>>2827920
The right kind of music elevates you to God. Listen to orthodox chant or Bach's cantatas. He'll even Bach's purely instrumental works direct you to the divine.

>>2828213
no they direct you to bach noone else

>>2828785
Don't go raping everything you see in France Mehmet.

>>2828785
All Baroque and Renaissance music has that aim, you fucktard.
Go listen to Palestrina, Gesualdo and Monteverdi.

>>2828785
Mediocre and ordinary people see mediocrity in everything.

>>2828816
>Gesualdo
Fucking incredible music

>>2827336
>people falling for this bait

>>2827849
>>2827920
>what are orthodox chants
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feu2owd0MsY

>>2827920
Listen to new order

>>2827833
Ahh yes, the enlightened 18th century serf, truly a paragon of cognition.

>>2829094
an inferior form of choral music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erXhcAfomJM

>>2825014
Probably because the majority of music nowadays is legit trash.

I mean not everyone can be moved or touched by the trash messages that today's popular music attempts to convey. I mean today's music is targeted at kids and adults who think like kids. Which isn't that surprising, I mean I have my personal escapes that I desire. I still like video games etc etc.

>>2829153
>L€ EBYN RONG GENRATION MAYMAY

>>2829153
>the majority of music nowadays is trash
>nowadays
SOMEBODY ONCE TOLD ME

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>>2829153

>>2827833
Speglers a hack

>>2829182
I fucking hate Queen. Freddy had a bretty gud voice tho.

>>2829172
>LE LOOKING FOR AN EXCUSE TO GREEN TEXT ANYTHING BECAUSE I NEED TO CRITICIZE SOMETHING TO VALIDATE MY EXISTENCE MEE MEE

Lol stfu you aspiring life timer of green texting

I was born in a alleged good era of music, only it was only good in relation to the shit you guys were born into. Everything nowadays for the most part sounds like it was inspired by either codeine consumption, or diva glamour.

>>2827398
They listen to bassy music with their subwoofers on max volume to feel the vibrations. Alternatively if they have hearing aids they listen to normal music.

t. Went to college at a school with a large deaf population

>>2829142
>t.westerner

>>2829182
It's almost like Volga River Boatmen was a folk song and intentionally monotonous so people could sing as they work or something.

>>2829205
>£€ WRONG ĐENEREYŠAN pt. 2, don't thread on me

kek

>>2829205
>LARPing as an elderlyfag

Made me reply.

>>2829196
Fuck you

>>2829218
slavs aren't white you jew

>>2829219
cleary a sign of the degeneracy in quality of the 19th century music.

I mean not everyone can be moved or touched by the trash messages that 19th century's popular music attempts to convey. I mean 19th century's music is targeted at kids and adults who think like kids.

Everything 19th century for the most part sounds like it was inspired by either ergot consumption, or low nobility glamour.

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>>2829220
You have successfully reached a level of memeing that I don't understand, congratulations life-timer.

>>2829221

>LE PRETEND TO KNOW WHO'S ON THE OTHER END TO SAVE FACE MAN

XD!!111!

I may not be the best memer, but I know the ropes kiddos

>>2829244
Just fresh outta reddit arn't ya

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>>2829232
>slavs aren't white
Divide et impera

>>2829232
I know it sucks but Slavs are white

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>>2829249
>>2829244

oh right, it's a music thread... here's some degenerate modern (((music)))

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muazDaCm6vE

>>2829254
>>2829263

don't you impose your patriarchal ethnicities on me!

>>2829249
>LE ACCUSE THE POSTER OF BEING FROM REDDIT

Lol anon, just stop. Pls bby. For both'a us.

>>2829270
;)

>>2829267
This has never been considered popular music though, has it? A hidden gem will always be a hidden gem anon. With that said, not sure if I'll listen to that ever again lol...it's not bad, just doesn't move me all that much.

But yeah, everything from today's Hip Hop to rock to pop music in general has gotten even more pointless in terms of lyrical content. But this shit goes in cycles it looks like. Disco was pointless, 80's pop was pointless, 90's was depressing but had some attempts at conveying a thoughtful message, 00's was the my person introduction into the codeine music, where some brain dead choice of chorus was repeated over and over, 10's+ this actually grew to dominate everything, not just Hip Hop, so now everything sounds codeine influenced.....Probably because it's the easiest music to make as it's drugged out, thoughtless message, really takes little to no effort of thought to produce.

Honestly, today's general foundation resembles disco and 80's pop imho. You had the hot pink and florescent colors artists would attempt to utilize in their image just a few years ago, along with their attempt to reintroduce 80's pop lyrical content, which is message-less....you had Bieber clones all over youtube for a minute, because youth exploitation sells like crack.

But yeah that's not to say there won't be hidden gems. It's just their buried in more bullshit as compared to my perceivable past.

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>>2827360
>2017
>hating Germans

>>2829379
pfft, you silly sack of misery, there has never been more music produced and never in a more free and monetary independent manner.In absolute numbers, we're at an all highe regarding quality music created and it's only getting better.

Your being a plëbe doesn't excuse you of anything DX::D.dd.DDDD:D

>>2829421
>we're at an all highe regarding quality music created and it's only getting better.
Lol what

>>2829427
Imagine you have a few dozen composers, all having a go in a city of size, some relying on their merit and some merely on their connections to the local bishop or major who can actually fund their music.

Now imagine every single kid with a laptop being able to create productionally qualitative music.
Even if only 1% is not shit, it's still thousands upon thousands of dirty little shits making some nice sound.

>>2829421
I don't doubt that at all anon, calm those titties bro.

I'm saying, relative to OP's question and the fact popular music is usually harder pushed and has more financial backing for marketing than independent gem's...there's more perceivable trash right now. Which is probably why OP sees more people who don't appreciate music that much.

Good music is like good anything though, you really have to dig for it. Which now that I think about it, could mean music is better now given the age of information we're in. But yeah I was speaking of marketed music that is more often pushed today. There's more garbage than not. Again though, stupid shit sells more. Like I said, I can't shake video games.

>>2829438
Except in reality it's the other way around. The quality of the recording and reproduction of today is better, that's about it.

>>2829498
Granted that if all these kids with laptops had the same musical training as Bach and Beethoven, then yes, it would be interesting. But they're just musical illiterates playing with sounds.

>>2829515
Due to the nature of public schooling and state funded art, the number of funded, university schooled composers has only increased.

But of course, it's (((modern degeneracy))) to plœbs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDN7OKRLMUk

>>2829542
That's literally a guy playing violin in a classical style while two people talk.

>>2829515
I think music is more greatly influenced by the imagery you're surrounded with as opposed to the type of training. Like in our current society, if you expect another Bethoven, I think it would probably come from an individual who would be classified as a recluse. Someone who can get their influence as naturally as possible. As opposed to letting the aura of consumerism and arrogance influence the motivation to create music.

Young musicians of today imo are just flooded with garbage imagery, which ultimately dictates what they're going to produce.

At the same time, I really can't stand the Nirvana types, that make music with the sole purpose of condemning pop, like that's the message, just a track dedicated to condemning everything popular...in an attempt to be popular lol.

Anyway, music is fucking strange if you think about it. I can say I hate depressing music, because I do, but if I hear a depressing song while in a down mood, I can enjoy it. The power of music.

>>2825469
This is a sad vision, anon.

>>2829555
It's a section from an opera by a very acclaimed modernist composer, you dirty plэbe.

>>2829561
Very true. But this recluse wouldn't be able to make music if he didn't know how to play an instrument (or more) and how to write a score. That's what I meant with musical training. The technical part.

Technique isn't opposed to expressivity or creativity btw, as some people think. It in fact enlarges your expressive and creative capabilities. Many composers (Stravinsky for instance) would say that the they were often inspired by the technique of the instrument.

>>2829572
>acclaimed
And is that supposed to mean something to me?
The part that is musical per se is good insofar as it utilizes classical techniques. Then there are two people talking. That's all there is.

>>2829580
I see what you're saying. I agree completely, training could/does have influence. Just have to avoid the tugs from the meaningless imagery of influence, which isn't easy in life in general.

But yeah, all this is kinda getting me in the mood to dig through youtube lol.

>>2829593
Agreed. The landscape of modern urban life, let alone media and entertainment is a antithetical to beauty and art. It creates people like >>2829421

>>2829592
>i dig dem string man
>but it's just a dude screamign lol
>like, why do people even like dis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gyBa4jhIJ0


XD

>>2829605
I think he was just upset I didn't like the music he posted lol

Which shouldn't be a problem, cause the instrumentals I would suggest, he'd probably not like either. It's whatever tho

>>2829612
>Carl Orff
Shit music

>>2829612
You're hysterical anon.

>>2829628
cleary a sign of the degeneracy in quality of the 1930s music.

I mean not everyone can be moved or touched by the trash messages that 1930s popular music attempts to convey. I mean 1930s music is targeted at kids and adults who think like kids.

Everything 1930s for the most part sounds like it was inspired by either alcohol consumption, or nuveau riche glamour.

>>2829637
I was serious though

>>2829649
Well it's unfortunate, because I am clearly not.

>>2829651
I noticed, yes

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>>2829605
I've just joined my local conservatory (I'm doing composition and piano performance), and you're completely right.
Having lived my entire life in a pastoral-like rural village, I can easily access to feelings such as pure joy and bliss, and people will call me an hypocrite for it. You know what? I get them.

I just need to talk with them for more than 5 seconds to understand that most of them do not really have the mindset, nor the surrounding necessary to be in such a mood: to them it comes out as fake, since none of their happy moments are trascendental in themselves
The influences you'll find in a big coty will just dull this part of you. I can still be happy in Milan, but this happiness is always "degraded" by the context in which it takes place, and the images and situations that are inherent to said context: how many people can nowadays compose the Ode to Joy without lying to themselves? And since this would be a lie from their point of view, why should I expect them to do so?

The only way is to give them advices every once in a while, while going on your path, keeping your imagery "clean": no one should adopt their struggle (where they is the modern man, living in the modern world),for their struggle is meaningless and entirely manifactured by external forces, who were obviously not thinking about the artist's condition when they were establishing this system and global aesthetic. My impression is that to reach the peaks of Beauty (which is not everything there is in music, I know) of classical music one has to be ruthless, critical and spoiled, when it comes to the contects he subject himself to. There is no place for guilty pleasures, things that you are supposed to at least tolerate in order to avoid getting called uptight: who will disparage you for avoiding like the plague every piece of entertainment that is anything short of a masterpiece are most likely not living your experience, and their criteria of excellence are different than yours.

>>2825411
>intelligent people dont brag about how smart they are
How'd you know?

>>2826984
>Also, "rock" isn't music/art.
Wrong

>>2829267
You're trash

>>2830780
>Wrong
Wrong

>>2825469
What if I don't really like classical music that much?

>>2830921
Listen to The Clash

>>2830921
Give it a try, ffs.
What if I now say that I don't like Dante, even if I only listened to half of the Inferno audiobook? That sentence should be debated, since I would risk to miss to one of the best regarded poems in existence, over a span of 800 years.
In the same way you should really try to understand fully these composers: at worst you'll have good arguments against them, at best (and this is the most likely scenario) you will elevate them as a ulterior raison d'etre

>>2830921
Give it time anon, you'll get into it eventually, just keep listening

>>2825681
Are you implying scientists and philosophers are pseuds?

>>2830936
>>2830949
>>2830957


I suppose I was being disingenuous.

It's not so much that I don't enjoy classical music, or that I don't appreciate it, but rather, for whatever reason, it's not really "listenable" to me. I seldom find situations where I say to myself "damn, I could really go for some classical music," and only occasionally do I find myself hearing classical music in my head.

However, at the same time, I'm never disappointed with classical music and whenever I hear it it's a great experience. I just have absolutely no desire to explore more of it, and I'm not really sure why.

>>2830970
No just philosophers at least 75% of them

>>2830973
Because it's over 100 years ago you have no connection to it it's understandable but when aristocrats first heard Beethovens music they were on their knees completely blown away from the sheer awe.

>>2830973
You described exactly how i feel about classical music.

What kind of music do you like/prefer? i need to explore some new stuff

>>2830973
Here's how I started listening to classical music. Don't laugh. I was a headbanger, a heavy metal fan. I was constantly looking for the heaviest genre. Then one day my guitar teacher said to me, do you want to listen to something really heavy? He put on a Beethoven record. I'll never forget. It was comic and awkward in the beginning, but then I got it. This shit is heavy. The double basses, the trombones. No electric guitar could compare. Then he put Tchaikovsky's 1812 overture. I was blown away. Been blown away ever since.

Classical composers were the rock stars of their day. Mozart, Paganini, Liszt... yeah, Liszt was the Beatles before there were the Beatles. There's even a word for it. Lisztomania.
>Lisztomania or Liszt fever was the intense fan frenzy directed toward Hungarian composer Franz Liszt during his performances.
Also, for someone who played the electric guitar and was into shredding like me, I quickly realized that the violinists were the ones having all the fun. The electric guitar is a "slow" instrument in comparison.

Scene from the movie crossroads where they play Paganini's capriccio n 5
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z071pmsu-ZU
And the same capriccio played on the violin
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HLgBejh5TLA

So yeah. Kind of fickle and non-intellectual reasons to like classical music, but that's me.

>>2831057
I like hip hop. Don't stop reading there, hip hop can be some really nice, intellectually stimulating stuff.

I don't really like the mainstream stuff so I stick with the lesser-known or alternative artists. I'd suggest MF DOOM, Quasimoto, Madlib's instrumental work, I like Flying Lotus/Captain Murphy, Death Grips is(are?) cool too. The sampling and lyricism for all of these artists are imo the best of the best, but some of these songs can be a bit jarring at times.

If you want stuff that's easier to digest you could try Isaiah Rashad, Vince Staples, Earl Sweatshirt, or Oddisee. Knxwledge's instrumental work is quite nice. The lyrics are still good and the beats are still good, but are somewhat less intense.

Again, don't knock it till you try it. I'm positive that there's at least one artist here that you'll like.

>>2831062
That violin work is absolutely stunning.

>>2831108
Thanks. I'll save those recommendations and will give them a shot

Beethoven proves that: passion < raw talent

Mozart was better

>>2831170
Your opinion is wrong desu

>>2831108
First time ever listening to this.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YP2B5AYHZNA
I can tell there's quality in it. I hear a bass, a piano. And there's the mixing(?) I don't know how you would call you it? You can tell there's effort and intelligence put into that. Very unlike the garbage that you usually hear on the media.

>>2825411
>the belief that being depressive and anti-social are signs of intelligence rather than symptoms of brain damage
Ahahahahhahaha, thats a good observation that applies to a LOT more people than just neets, a lot of girls for example deliberately put themselves in idiotic situations so that they can claim this.

>>2830973
>It's not so much that I don't enjoy classical music, or that I don't appreciate it, but rather, for whatever reason, it's not really "listenable" to me. I seldom find situations where I say to myself "damn, I could really go for some classical music," and only occasionally do I find m

Because classical music is not easy to listen, just like Dante is not easy to read. Put some effort into it, pick a Beethoven sonata (I'm sure you'll love the Appassionata sonata, the 23rd one; also listen to the 17th, Tempest, and the 32nd), sit down and really listen to it in its entirety, focusinf your attention only on the music itself, almost in a meditative state. It will be hard the first time, you will miss so many things, since you're atention span has no tolerance for classical music yet, but eventually, not so far from now (in fact it could take only a day) you will get it. You will find a single musical moment that really speaks to you, and from there you'll keep building your appreciation for this high art: it takes only one hint of the greatness of this music, only one, to get caught by it. It will sound to you so incomparably superior to everything you've listened so far, it will show you a maturity and intelligence that simply can't be found anywhere else.
Also reading on it will help immensely, since you'll have a first interprtation with which you can actively analyze this music.

Do it, you owe it to yourself.

>>2830973
I'd also recommend Ravel, specifically le Tombeau de Couperin. Debussy and Stravinsky are also good, but I wouldn't recommend starting with Firebird.

>>2831309
This, Ravel is very close to the modern sensibilities: at this point I'm sure the Toccata will sound forever modern.

>>2827920
t. Oliver Cromwell

Man, I just love Tobacco.

I like some of his piano pieces but to be honest his symphony is pretty generic early romance and there are a lot of composers that get a lot less attention who imo are more deserving of it.

not sure where the beethoven meme comes from.

>>2830395
>composition
Me too. What kind of stuff have you written?

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>>2831289
>appassionata
>that fucking coda
Like the apocalypse in musical form.

>>2832575
>his symphony is pretty generic early romance
Are you pulling my leg? Really, even a cursory listen to Eroica or the Fifth should be enough to utterly disprove that.

>>2831108
>>2831134
So right now i'm listening to MF DOOM and i gotta say, it's good. You got that nice flow with Lyrics to think about as far as i can tell after only a few songs.

Again, thanks Anon

Eh, for some reason the very act of historical analysis towards classical music, I find them to be at odds with the idea of 'classicism' itself. I mean, isn't the meaning of 'classical' there refers to their timeless quality? What do you think, /his/? If it's timeless then surely we can find something that still feels fresh, contemporary, from them. This kinda goes against historicism in general. Welp, don't know what I'm blabbering about though, haha.

>>2831289
>you will miss so many things, since you're attention span has no tolerance for classical music yet
Like most music one picks up more things about what makes it work with further listening, your point would be the same without the tip

>>2831170
Listen to Satie he's a Frenchie but still

>>2825014
No 5 is unironically is one of the greatest things humanity has produced.And you guys hate Germans,heathans all of you

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>>2835771
Beethoven was Dutch though.

>>2835786
His father was Belgian/Dutch
But his mother came from a long line of germs

>>2835771
Which is ironic because hitler hated Beethoven but he loved Wagner

>>2835840
Lol never go full germ

>>2835843
No? Hitler loved both Beethoven and Wagner, it was Brahms he didn't care for.

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>>2835857
>no one ever loves brahms
>Nietzsche too was indiferent towards him
Why is that?

>>2835875
I don't know. I feel bad for Brahms, he never thought he was any good even though he was :(

Music is a lot like love, it's all a feeling
And it fills the room, from the floor to the ceiling
I see miracles all around me
Stop and look around, it's all astounding
Water, fire, air and dirt
Fucking magnets, how do they work?
And I don't wanna talk to a scientist
Y'all motherfuckers lying, and getting me pissed
Solar eclipse, and vicious weather
Fifteen thousand Juggalos together
And I love my mom for giving me this
Time on this planet, taking nothing for granted
I seen a caterpillar turn into a butterfly
Miracles ain't nothing to lie
Shaggy's little boys look just like Shaggy
And my little boy looks just like daddy
Miracles each and every where you look
And nobody has to stay where they put
This world is yours for you to explore
There's nothing but miracles beyond your door
The Dark Carnival is your invitation
To witness that without explanation
Take a look at this fine creation
And enjoy it better with appreciation
Crows, ghosts, the midnight coast
The wonders of the world, mysteries the most
Just open your mind, and it ain't no way
To ignore the miracles of every day

What I've got you've got to give it to your mama
What I've got you've got to give it to your pappa
What I've got you've got to give it to your daughter
You do a little dance and then you drink a little water
What I've got you've got to get it put it in you
What I've got you've got to get it put it in you
What I've got you've got to get it put it in you
Reeling with the feeling don't stop continue

>>2835925
I have the same feeling anon ;_; that's why I ask
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NijYtozUHaw

>>2827336
>having this much autism

>>2825411
>neets hate art
lel go to /lit/ or /mu/

>>2837195
/mu/ likes shit music and lit likes shit books

>>2837263
>/mu/ likes shit music
Yes
> lit likes shit books
No

>>2835857
No he didn't, he didn't like Beethoven because while being mostly German on his mothers side his father had Belgian and some Slavic blood

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>>2827334
>2017
>not listening to anarcho tribalism
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0l9kzS_B7gg

>>2837273
Last time I was there they were talking about shitty novels

>>2837280
Source or stfu

>>2837301
Look it up you spastic autistic shithead

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Reminder for the filthy leftists
:^)>

>>2837305
Unsourced bs then? Got it.

>>2837339
Read metropolitics by Peter Viereck
You unaware plębcuck

>>2837359
Heh it wasn't so hard now was it?

>>2837364
It's hard for you because you've proven that you're shit eating unaware nubbit on an underwater turtle nurturing forum.Shame on you

>>2837313
Based.

>>2837374
Lol ur looking the mirror?

>>2837381
No you do you fat puss

>>2837385
U mad? I'd be mad too if I couldn't see my dick in years.

>>2837381
Your mothers titties get mirrored

>>2825498
t. sperg autist NEET virgin

>>2837392
You have to be 18 to post here you eurofat.

>>2837295
>2017
>not listening to anarcho autisticism

>>2825883
>implying rock didn't single handedly boost drug sales worldwide.

>>2825411
>intelligent people dont brag about how smart they are on the internet except to troll pseud brainlet aspies

So reddit is one massive troll?

>>2837789
Yeah except they don't know it themselves

>>2825469
>>2827015
Stop being fucking plebs

Beethoven was a classical era composer and his music is the highest example of what common era tonality could be. it does not mean that that is all music can be.

say what you will about modern theory but set analysis is extremely useful and I believe we have yet to listen to a true master of this and other modern techniques, just as beethoven was a master of classical, brahms of romantic, bach of baroque/early classical, stravinsky of modernism etc.

either way none of them thought of themselves that way

>>2833259
Weird post, but I'll clarify for you - the term "classical" is referring to the fact that the music and the processes behind it reached a level of sophistication and similarity of structure that were direct parallels to the techniques and forms of classical (Greek and Roman) works of literature, theater etc.

For contrast, the music of the Greeks and the Romans was only relatively sophisticated. Music would take much longer than other art forms to evolve.

>>2825498
correct

>>2827218
I

>>2839273
Incorrect

>>2827303
in its basic state, classical music is a craft, not an art
opera is art

>>2839330
Define art

>>2839335
A texture that is created, not used, to evoke emotion.
Tones evoke natural reactions within humans on account of their association with human noises. It would be inaccurate to call a pure black mural art on the basis that it evokes the feelings humans receive on seeing the night sky. In the same way, paintings or photos of existing landscapes are not art. The emotion or awe you feel upon hearing basic music does not qualify it as art.

Literature and architecture are the highest arts

Music is a waste of time. Contributes nothing productive and the manpower/capital/resources wasted on it could instead be put to better use.

>>2839366
>Tones evoke natural reactions within humans on account of their association with human noises
I don't understand this, what human noises sound like melodies?

>>2839397
The notes themselves serve as allusions to the human voice and consequently to human emotions. Melody is only the manner in which they are arranged. It's a composition -- a craft.

>>2839366
>A texture that is created, not used, to evoke emotion.

This is a very arbitrary and controverse definition of art, and does not account for the fact that in the Western canon only the XIX century music had its focus on emotions: pure, mostly impersonal aesthetic value has been taken seriously until the Romantic period.

>Tones evoke natural reactions within humans on account of their association with human noises.
Words evoke natural reactions too, and so do nice shapes: how does literature and architecture overcome this paradigm?

>It would be inaccurate to call a pure black mural art on the basis that it evokes the feelings humans receive on seeing the night sky.
Why? You could call it bad art, using criterias that you have examined, but that's it.

>The emotion or awe you feel upon hearing basic music does not qualify it as art.
Do you think that the best regarded classical music is regarded that way SOLELY due to the emotions they can imply? You're not devaluing music, rather you're devaluing music appreciation: you're mistaking the subject for the object.


By the way I've adopted your line of reasoning just for debate's sake, but I also disagree with the stances that are the core of what you're saying: the worthlessness of emotion, and the rational approach to art. So, I should ask you about these principles too: why are emotions related to art worthless (so worthless in fact, that, in your opinion, they by themselves discard the validity of entire medium)? And why literature and architecture are not touched by these considerations, considering that they both evoke extremely strong emotions in humans too?

>>2839459
>It's a composition -- a craft.

I kind of believe this but I have a different idea of what constitutes art, and consequently a different ranking of the arts. It's interesting to see a different opinion but the same conclusion about music.

>>2839459
Literature and architecture are a craft too, though.

>>2837300
Like?

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>>2839367

>>2825498
Na vidye is

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>>2826984
>Also, "rock" isn't music/art.
No music is inherently art, saying [genre] isn't art is a worthless statement
Many great works have been produced in rock music

>>2825014
I can only speak for myself.
I rather enjoy music. But I am wary of its use in all media not cued by myself.

Music has a direct track to your emotions. Which means that others, via the music they present to you, can manipulate your emotions.

People are emotional creatures - emotion has more to do with our thinking and decision making process than most people care to admit. Thus, we should always be suspicious of any form of emotional manipulation. Especially through music.

Now if it's just your MP3s cued up to cheer you up, no problem. Just be aware of what you are reading or watching while listening to your music. Your mood will affect your judgment of whatever information you take in.

And fyi - those who claim some sort of immunity are usually the MOST influenced. Denial leaves you completely vulnerable. Total denial leaves you with a huge mental blind spot - you can't see that you're being manipulated. Which leaves you completely open to manipulation.

>>2826984
>what is art?
Damned near anything could be art. Including rock music.

>>2839783
Agree https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XM9erS90gTE

>>2839512
I'm not sure if you'd define a single tone as music, but I wouldn't. What I had meant to say is that the value of a tone is in its direct allusion to an emotion. The tone itself is an emotion transposed into a context in which it can be recognized.

Language of human contrivance is a world in which things that are capable of evoking emotion can occur. The natural reaction to a word is not the goal for which the word was put into place in a linguistic composition. The difference I see is that between assembling a matrix of existing emotions to stress, relieve, rejoice, and despair listeners (obviously leaving things out, but it sounds nice) -- between that, and synthesizing an emotion out of ideas and essences, represented by these artificial words, which, from an omniscient or otherwise grand perspective, can be likened to the deliberate recreation of the procedure by which awe-inspiring natural objects are created, in an entirely new way.

>Do you think that the best regarded classical music is regarded that way SOLELY due to the emotions they can imply? You're not devaluing music, rather you're devaluing music appreciation: you're mistaking the subject for the object.
I think that music is appreciated as composition. I take issue when, despite possessing no subject, it is posited as something artistic.

>Why? You could call it bad art, using criterias that you have examined, but that's it.
Using the criteria that I set forth, it is not art, as it, rather than creating a texture, uses an established texture to evoke emotion.

>Architecture
I'd rather not argue about this, because I don't know much about architecture; so I'll concede this point

>>2839576
No, grammar and engineering are crafts

>>2839563
I think that regardless of whether or not you see the act of composition as art

>>2839802
>No, grammar and engineering are crafts
Then equivalently virtuosity would be what you consider art in music I presume?

>>2839783
The scariest thing about music is that people think it ONLY effects your emotions

>>2839765
Lol isn't scaruffi a pedo fuck who's extremely jealous of the Beatles and makes uninformed political statements

>>2839783
Good post son

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>>2825014
The only philosopher I can think of that doesent like music is Kant while he was a genius in many respects he was ultimately wrong about art culture and very dismissive of key archetypal issues

>>2839925
Lol for a person who wrote books on rationality he sure showed his Prussian irrational autism here.

>>2839802
>What I had meant to say is that the value of a tone is in its direct allusion to an emotion.

Again, this may be true for Schumann, while being false for Handel or Boulez. Music is not inherently about emotions, although they can still inspire them. Impersonal music has been the standard for 800 years, with only one exception, which lasted about 100 years.
With this logic philosophy would be the only kind of literature that could be regarded as art.


Even then, most of the Romantic music that is still relevant, is studied mostly for their theoric and aesthetic elements, rather than their emotional appeal.

>The natural reaction to a word is not the goal for which the word was put into place in a linguistic composition.
The word may be there to evoke a concept, but that concept will subsequently appreciated in an emotional way, and will still be distorted by those feelings that were attached to the concepts themselves.

>The difference I see is that between assembling a matrix of existing emotions to stress, relieve, rejoice, and despair listeners
And I could say that literature is basically a giant wordplay. You could answer by saying ''no, it's much more than that, and such a statement just proves that you have no cognition of how literature works'', and you wuold be right: the same can be said about the reduction you're imposing on music.

>I think that music is appreciated as composition. I take issue when, despite possessing no subject, it is posited as something artistic.
You're speculating on a lack of subject, and you're discrediting subjects as simple as aesthetics. Also music that includes vocals, dances and programs can deal and treat a specific subject, therefore it seems like you have a problem only with instrumental music.

>Using the criteria that I set forth, it is not art, as it, rather than creating a texture, uses an established texture to evoke emotion.
I'm questioning your criterias, since they seem rather inconsistent.

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>>2839783
From Plato to this >>2839792 guy, there will always be philosophers who'd argue for controlling arts. Supposedly because art is 'dangerous', art is 'illogical', and so forth. This kind of 'traditional' philosophy is the gateway of all kinds of demystifying (disenchanment) effects. After it, science will come in and tries to 'dissect' everything in their lab, trying to grasp something that has never been theirs, and has already been turned into no more than a glorified corpse.

>>2839954
*coughes* wipes nose with shirt*

>>2827398
John cage

>>2839888
This.

>>2825014
Pseuds dislike """rock""" music.

>>2838760
Seems like the only pleb here is you.

>>2838760
It is fair to have a preference when it comes o styles, musical philosophies and genres.

>>2839802
>>2839563
I didn't mean to write anything in response to you. I forgot to delete what I had written

>>2839841
In my opinion, music that incorporates language is art, regardless of its quality or the genuineness of its intention. Intention determines whether or not a skilled writer is creating art.

>>2839936
Aesthetics can be used to describe or classify art, but neither developing an existing aesthetic nor creating with the intention establishing a new one constitutes art. Music is not art unless it sets out to be art.

>The word may be there to evoke a concept, but that concept will subsequently appreciated in an emotional way, and will still be distorted by those feelings that were attached to the concepts themselves.
The immediate reaction a reader has to words does nothing to alter the meaning of any sentence, so there's no reason to bring it up. You may as well be claiming that the quality of musical composition is subject to the opinions of a listener.

>And I could say that literature is basically a giant wordplay. You could answer by saying ''no, it's much more than that, and such a statement just proves that you have no cognition of how literature works'', and you wuold be right: the same can be said about the reduction you're imposing on music.
As tones, being physical, have nothing behind the immediate emotional reaction they provoke, they are not equal to words. Composition, regardless of how unique it is, does not make an independent entity out of sound, nor does it make it artistic.

>I'm questioning your criterias, since they seem rather inconsistent.
But my claim was consistent with the initial criteria that I set forth

>>2840249
>In my opinion, music that incorporates language is art, regardless of its quality or the genuineness of its intention. Intention determines whether or not a skilled writer is creating art.
So you're clueless of musical substance and trying to define every medium with the same ambiguous, broad brush

>>2840301
I'm telling you where music fits into the broad, unambiguous term that is "art". Musical substance has no artistic merit. Music is not an artistic medium; it can be an exercise in craftsmanship, a source of entertainment, or a component within an piece of art.

>>2827334
>2017
>not listening to velvet underground constantly

>>2840301
He sounds like a Hegelian or a phenomenologist.

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>>2840436
Lou Beet here. Keep sucking on my ding-dong.

>>2840343
>unambiguous term that is "art"
wew
You're good at sounding like you know what you're talking about though, I'll give you that

>>2840249
>but neither developing an existing aesthetic nor creating with the intention establishing a new one constitutes art. Music
Why not?

>Music is not art unless it sets out to be art.
Why isn't developing a new way of concieving beauty, for example (which was the focus of the common practice period), not Art? Would a poem that shares with said music the same goals would be mere ''craft'' too?

>The immediate reaction a reader has to words does nothing to alter the meaning of any sentence
It does in fiction. Through careful planning you can load the meaning and emotional relevance of extremely simple sentences. When people read ''Jesus wept.'' they do not just think about Jesus crying and move on.
To escape emotions you have to take in consideration only certain niches of fiction, or move to philosophy altogether.

>You may as well be claiming that the quality of musical composition is subject to the opinions of a listener.
Ultimate every form of judgement is subject to the opinion of the listener when it comes to art. Music appreciation is as objective as literary appreciation, in fact I'd say that it is more objective, for its constituents and foundational notions are way more clear and defined than the ones of literature (words and grammar).

>As tones, being physical, have nothing behind the immediate emotional reaction they provoke, they are not equal to words.
Tones can be accessed through memory, exactly like you can access words through memory, therefore the mental component is present there too, especially if you know how to read a score and trascribe it. Most trained musicians you'll meet in your life approach music mostly through reading, rather than listening, therefore the essence of compositions is not to be found in its performance.

>But my claim was consistent with the initial criteria that I set forth
You think that literature is true art, yet this is in contradiction with your initial criteria.

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>>2840554
Stfu Faggot I invented you suck my silk ballies

>>2825014
Edm ruined music

>>2840601
You're arguing with a pseud

>>2825469
>2017
>not listening to the Beatles

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>>2841214
>The Beatles

>>2841325
>scaruffi
>not a disgusting ped

>>2840787
Fuck off it did
I'm sure EDM is the reason why you don't patronise the music that you like

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>>2829379
>Disco was pointless
You listened to bad disco.

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ONETWOTHREEFOUR

>>2841549
This and the bee gees as well as Gary Numan
Punk was a mistake

>>2825014
Because they haven't listened to good music

>>2841863
Gery Numan isn't disco lad, and punk gave us post punk

>>2829572
Einstein on the Beach sucks. You should listen to Akhenaten and Satyagraha instead. Those have better music and also have characters and plot that retell historical events. Einstein is plotless and repetitive. A waste.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XENvMGyy4J8

>>2842089
Gary's later stuff is and while post punk is amazing I think the genre title isn't really punky at all I've always hated post" as a category for any music .Regular punk never had more then 2 hours of great music 90% of it is utter talentless shit laddy

>>2841214
>the Beatles
Gotta be 18 to post on this site kiddo.

>>2842420
You're 12 if you think the Beatles didn't influence everything including your moms tits to get peckered up kid laddy

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>music can't be ar-

>>2842474
>caring about popular music

I guess Stephen King was a genius because he influenced lots of minor, forgettable authors.

>>2842474
LOL Justin Bieber is a genius he influenced a lot of preteen girls and homosexuals.

>>2843912
>what is nuance"

>>2842807
D A L E

>>2825514
Kpop?

>>2835875
Wagner is unironically better

>>2844684
Mahler is everything Wagner wishes he could be.

>>2842474
Look, every teenager goes through their Beatles phase. That's fine and all but again this an 18+ site sport so 14-year-olds like yourselves are asking for a ban.

>>2845146
I'm 18+ son I used to think the Beatles were overrated (they're not) them and the animals are the only good bands you have no idea what you're talking about kiddo

>>2845146
t.12 yr old

>>2845131
Lol Mahler is a fly in Wagner´s shit son.

>>2845170
Wagner is your typical G*rman: autistic, soulless, incapable of expressing real emotion so he disguises it with bombast and length. Just like Bruckner.

>>2845182
Fair assessment imo, even if a little tainted by /int/posting

>>2845182
Mahler sure didn´t think so.
>Gustav Mahler was also present in 1883 and he wrote to a friend; "I can hardly describe my present state to you. When I came out of the Festspielhaus, completely spellbound, I understood that the greatest and most painful revelation had just been made to me, and that I would carry it unspoiled for the rest of my life."[32]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parsifal

>>2845191
Seriously, give me The Magic Flute over Tristan Und Isolde any day.

>>2845196
Beethoven also thought Cherubini was the best of his contemporaries but Cherubini's shit.

>>2845204
Beethoven didn´t spend the rest of his life trying to imitate Cherubini.
Mahler spent the rest of his life trying to imitate Wagner, never quite matching the master. He was a master of orchestration special effects though, hence why more shallow people like him best.

I'm Henry the eighth I am,
Henry the eighth I am I am,
I got married to the widow next door,
She's been married seven times before,
And everyone was a Henry (Henry),
She wouldn't have a Willie or a Sam (no sam)
I'm her eighth old man, I'm Henry,
Henry the eighth I am

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>>2845219
>this is what G*rmans believe

>>2845204
No Beethoven literally thought he was the best human alive (not far off In those times) read swaffords books

>>2845182
Mahler is a poor mans Debussy

>>2845247
Stick to listening to best of classical music youtube videos kiddo.

>>2845219
>Mahler spent the rest of his life trying to imitate Wagner
That's really unfair, especially considering that Mahler never actually tried to emulate Wagner's style, but only his goals (which is reasonable). If anything Mozart was a more evident influence on Mahler's actual compositional style, even he admitted it.

>>2845182
>Wagner is your typical G*rman: autistic, soulless, incapable of expressing real emotion
This is not true at all. If anything Wagner was overly sensitive and romantic in nature.
autistic, soulles, incapable of expressing his real emotion? the guy would tell everyone to shut up, read to everyone a book and weep while doing so: he was NOT emotionally stunted, and he als was some sort of social virtuoso, since he managed to charm virtually every major figure he met in his life, even the ones he defrauded.
He surely was an opportunist, but this is due to his allegiance to Schopenhauer's philosophy, which led him to believe that in his life his art and talent had a priority on EVERYTHING, including ethics and morality (and this was not n uncommon stance among the German artists of the second half of the 19th century: from the '60s Schopenhauer became the ''official'' artist's pilosopher in Europe).
Your biographical analysis of Wagner is fallacious: you should re-read the texts you have read about him, since your wrong interpretation is actively making you misinterpret his music.

>>2835875
Brahms is a musician's musician. To be understood requires lots of attention, unless you're reading his scores (in that case you'll immediatly notice that his music is perfect, considering every possible criteria that was in use in the Romantic, Classic and Baroque period). In a wold in which everyone is musically literate, Brahms would be as revered by the general population as Beethoven and Mozart
.
>>2835786
Considering his life, you may as well declare him as Austrian, or even better, European.

>>2845261
lmao I can tell you're a /pol/ babby who unironically thinks that forcing himself to sit through Wagner's schlock makes him more 'redpilled.' You don't know shit about music.

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>>2845131

>>2825014
Because it's easy to dislike the good things in life

I like classical music but I cant explain why.

Why do some people insist on focussing all attention to the classical music because "it's intellectual", or am I just doing it wrong?

I listen to it exactly as I would listen to any other genre

>>2845250
Not true. He certainly thought he was the best musician alive, and that is talent deserved respect, but that's still far from what you're proposing. Read Solomon's ''Beethoven'', and you'll discover that in his privacy he was way less narcissist that one might think: hell, in his later years he decided to write most of his major works for the general, poor population (the Missa Solemnis and the symphonies, especially the 9th, are composed for everyone, not only for educated musicians and aristocrats), since he mantained the beliefs in education and human betterment through the high arts. He thought that he was the greatest musical genius in Europe, while still believing in the dignity of his fellow man.

I'm not saying that he was a well-adjusted, modest person, but you're description still remains inaccurate.

>>2845272
Not everyone has a large enough attention span to enjoy it. That´s ok anon. But perhaps classical music is not for you.

>>2835786
He was literally A Germ down to his last cell.

>>2845292
Being long isn't good. Don Giovanni's almost 3 hours, but guess what, it's actually good, so I can sit through it no problem.

>>2845287
I hear he was good friends with Napoleon but after he became """authoritarian"" Beethoven wouldn't go to his parties or speak to him

>>2845287
By best human alive I meant best musician which he rightly thought in a lot of ways

>>2845286
You don't have the confidence to utilize your reason.

>>2845286
>I like classical music but I cant explain why.
Because the best classical music is 10 steps above every other kind of music created by humanity.

>Why do some people insist on focussing all attention to the classical music because "it's intellectual", or am I just doing it wrong?
I've literally never heard anyone saying it, and in general such a person would be mocked for saying it by most classical music fans and musicians. You're probably doing it wrong.
How do you appreciate music? Can you describe the process?

>I listen to it exactly as I would listen to any other genre
First of all, you should give more attention to classical music than, let's say, post-rock music. It's just more dense, so this should be always considered as a prerequisite for classical music appreciation.
Secondly, every genre starts from their own premises (you'll never listen for counterpoint in a gangsta rap song) and in classical music every major composer is basically a genre by itself (which means that listening to Schumann requires a different mindset than the one required to listen to Palestrina)

Your ''blind'' approach will reveal itself as fruitless in the long run: it's always more useful to read some biographical notes, the intentions of the composer, and the period and context in which the music was written: it will help immensely.

>>2845298
You may want to start with Mozart´s Eine kleine Nachtmusik, and Vivaldi´s four seasons. Then slowly progress towards maybe a Haydn symphony. But just the first movement! Otherwise it might get a little "boring" near the end for you. Continue like this for a while and you will get there someday ;)

>>2839888
What else does it manipulate?

>>2845312
>gets BTFO
>starts shitposting
Typical.

>>2845301
He never befriended Napoleon, although he respected him until he proclaimed himself Emperor. After that he despised him as a human being, while still respecting the greatness that originated from his modest origin.

>>2845304
Too bad that he only managed to witness Schubert's lieders, and not his sonatas, chamber and orchestral works. I'm sure he would have considered him as a full peer, had he ever discovered his prodigious repertoire.

>>2845317
But it´s worth the effort anon. I promise you ;)

You can turn on Justin Bieber or the Beatles between movements if you like. Although I wouldn´t recommend it.

>>2845325
xDDD

Whats a pseud?

>>2845355
A pseud is someone who pretends to find intellectual stimulation through something as meaningless as music rather than developing their brainpower enough to analyze literature or philosophy.

>>2827224
It really does tbqh

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>>2839925
Lmfao Prussians are autistic

>>2839897
Yeah he's also a shit critic

>>2825014
>German
>"white"

>>2837313
nice

>>2841515
t.garbage bin

>>2845324
Liszt did everything better then Beethoven

>>2831170
Vivaldi spits on them

>>2830936
Armenians are good at making music

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>>2845799

>>2845804 and yours too >>2845810

>>2845568
>white
>white

>>2845810
Truth hurts

>>2825014
I only hate Pop and Hip-Hop.

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>>2845799

>>2845389
>>2846011
t.psueds

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>>2846184

>>2825498
music=painting/sculpture=literature>architecture>games>movies>plays
speaking in terms of purity. games, movies, plays are combinations of the first three and are thus diluted. But games have interaction (making them the pinnacle medium so far for horror and action works) and movies have editing and camerawork (making them better versions of plays)

>>2846399
You're clueless
Music>literature>painting/esculpture>movies=plays>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>games

>>2846399
This would be true in a world in which games are much more advanced than they are now.
At the moment games have still no great masterpieces. At best they're intelligent, but there's still no 9th Symphony, David or Divine Commedy in the medium, which means that at the moment it is reasonable to say

music=painting/sculpture=literatue>architecture>movies>plays>>>>>>>>>>>games

I'm too tired to debate the fact that you consider architecture, movies and plays as minor arts.

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>>2846546
>At the moment games have still no great masterpieces
Wrong.

>>2846629
Do you really think that this is as validating to its genre as much as Shakespeare is validating to literature?
The fact that you're hailing MGS as a masterpiece should show you that you're placing extremely low standards on this medium.

>>2846629
please be bait

>>2846637
>Shakespeare
>dude iambic pentameter lmao
>dude long drawn out speeches lmao
>dude I'm going to kill myself lmao

Meanwhile MGS deals with complex, adult themes that are both poignant and timely.

>>2846337
t.philistine pseud

>>2845204
Not even a SJW but did anyone else felt uncomfortable by the sexism in the magic flute?
>tfw the queen of the night only wanted to help

>>2846737
Most of those older stories will probably seem weird to modern sensibilities.

>Cosi Fan Tutte
>women cheat on their fiancees but it's supposed to be ok because 'lol women are just like that'

>Marriage of Figaro
>towards the end Figaro straight up lectures the audience that women are liars and cheaters and you should never trust one

>Tristan Und Isolde
>Tristan killed Isolde's husband and kidnaps her but she falls in love with him anyways

>>2845808
Unironically true

bump
shit op
occasionally good content

>>2846629
Good choice

>>2848351
Fuck you