Iranian/Iranic people thread (pre-Islam)

>>2821774
yeah it sucks that those nomads all had oral traditions

shame they didn't write shit down

>>2821789
fucking uncivilised steppeniggers

the chinks wrote their shit down as did the kikes as did the mediterranefags, why couldnt the horsearchfuckers do the same

>>2821828
Writing is for cucks.

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>>2821774
>Zoroastrianism
>famous historical figures

Greetings, Bratar

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>>2821774
>tfw no Iranian warrior goddess gf

Why are Kurds objectively the worst Iranian people?

>>2821867
Because they're not an Iranian people.

They're filthy fucking Sunni WE DINDU NUFFINS.

t. Iranian

>>2821833
There were Franks who were Zoroastrians?

>tfw we don't live in a time where Germanics were tamed by based Zoroastrianism permanently instead of Christanity

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Post yfw most Iranian people got TURK'D

Tajik here. I actually have a question, but I know a little so ask me if you have something you want to know.

Same question as this thread >>2818007

What's the difference between Tajik and Persian? One anon said it was like that of Bavarian and Prussian, however there is no overall term such as "German." I've found some sources that disagree, and some that agree.

What I do know is that Tajik is a more contemporary/post soviet term, and I know that racially I am the same as Persians hailing from Iran (apparently the only actual Persians, though as said some disagree.)

This is all very confusing so if somebody could provide a proper, easy to understand explanation I would be very greatful.

>>2821911
Would "Iranic" or "Indo-Iranic" be the "Germany" I was talking about? Help me find the term

>>2821880
Most likely wrong

But Mithraism was very developed in Northern Gauls especially around the Limes Germanicus and Chilperic(a frankish king) was buried with the head of a golden bull which is a symbol of Mithraism so there is a possiblity

>>2821880
Certain Arab explorers tend to refer to pagans as Zoroastrian, most notably the Vikings and Russian Slavs.

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So anyone have a idea why just the Azeri people went from Iranian to Turkish LARPers in Persia? Because evidence from different Arab/Persian historians suggest they still spoke their own Iranian language way into the Islamic era, which later gradually changed with the Timurid/Safavid era.

Was the Turkification that heavily concentrated in their region compared to the rest of Iran?

>>2821910
At least bait better if you are going to shit post in my thread.

>>2821911
Tajiks are basically Persians who colonized out into places in Central Asia. Think of them as being closer in equivalent to the British (Persians) with British-American colonists (Americans).

>>2821940
Their language was Turkified due to Turkic dynasties having a stronger cultural grasp on parts of Anatolia and Iranian lands where Azeri populations were most dense. The whole thinking they are Turkish ethnically/culturally is mainly due to Ottoman and especially Russian propaganda.

>>2821877
But they are Iranian you fucking retard. They are racially Iranic.

>>2821880
>>2821833
Zoroastrian is a catch all term that Arabs used for pagans

>>2821940
>Azeris are racially T*rkic
I cant wait for this fucking meme to die already

>>2821958
When did this colonization occur? Thank you, interesting stuff

>>2821973
No idea, but the Samanids are generally attested as the earliest fore-bearers of Tajik-Persians.

>>2821970
Too bad that one Azeri that discovered their ancient Azari language was killed by the Iranian government for "anti-islamic" reasons. I doubt it would do much difference but it might have persuaded atleast a bunch of them to not buy into Baku/Istanbul propaganda.

>>2821990
Last question. Would it be incorrect to refer to myself as Persian in 2017? Not like anyone would know if I was we wuzzing or not (everyone assumes you're Arab over here) but I'd still like to know for truth's sake.

>>2822009
Not really, seems pretty common sense to me. Tajiks like Persians in Iran share the same culture, language, history, and ethnicity. You are as Persian as Persians in Iran.

>>2821960
>>2821970
>Racially a language

Nice meme

>>2822009
Yes it would be incorrect. Modern Tajiks are mixed with non-Persians

>>2822018
"Turkic" is also a meme, friend. If you want to discuss it further, go make your own Turkic thread.

>>2822015
Thanks
>>2822030
If you're talking about those mongoloid-mixed ones, that's a different type of tajik which I forgot the name. Racially I am the same as any Iranian.
------
Just FYI my dad has provided me with a first-hand account of his escape to Paris two weeks before the 40th army invaded Afghanistan in '79. Life under communism as part of the 1% sucked he said. Ask if you want to know more

>>2822030
>>2822047
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pamiris found it

>>2821789
The Abrahamic religions are literally the only Western religions that didn't use oral tradition. All of the European pagan faiths were oral tradition, they just had their stories recorded indirectly though the works of playwrights and philosophers of the time. There was no Greek or Roman bible, and our modern understanding of their religious beliefs is about as accurate as trying to understand Judaism by watching a movie about Moses.

>>2821774
I've recently been very interested in trying to learn more about Iran's history and people. I didn't really realize how diverse a nation it actually is. The Parthians are my personal favorite because I find the blend of Persian and Hellenistic cultures appealing.

>>2821911
You are the same ethnicity as the Persians of Iran, but normies don't usually understand that so the term Tajik has come to mean someone from Tajikistan/Afghanistan and are seen as a separate ethnicity.

>>2822077
The Parthians (or more accurately the Parnis of Parthia) were interesting but the whole following of Greek culture is what made their reign so volatile and why they latter abandon it to return to emulating the Medes and Achaemenids before them.

Definitely interesting either way..

>>2822018
>hurr durr
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_peoples

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkic_peoples

>>2821774
I was reading about the Anabasis (Xenophon's march out of Persia) and I noticed there doesn't seem to be much information on casualties on the part of non-Greeks. I get that the only real text we have of the event is Xenophon's account, but I'd expect there to be some estimates. Does anyone have some insight or a link that addresses this?

>>2821774
Here, I'll speed this thread up to it's inevitable direction.

WE WUZ MASTER RACE N SHIT
WE INVENTED CIVILIZATION FROM CHINA TO INDIA TO YURUP N SHIET
WHY WE STAYED AS BARBARIANS N SHIET I DUNNO N SHIET

>>2821935
B-but zoroastrians were monotheistic. Why they do that?

tfw Persian girls will never do porn

>>2822282
Literally no reason to shit up my thread by doing this crap.

>>2821854
I know that feel.

>>2821774
PERSIA BTFO BY OTTOMAN
get rekt faggots

Well, I was hearing the Civ 5 leader Darius a few days ago. It's based on the Imperial dialect, and as a speaker (it's not Persian), most of it is the same as current speech. I just thought you might be interested.

WE WUZ WHITE N SHEEEEEIT

>>2822869
This turkic>iranians.
Een when the ruling safavids were turkic too.

>>2824433

The ruling Ottoman Dynasty were Balkan/Greek converts, only 3 out of 36 Ottoman Sultans had a Turkish mother.

So in that case Greeks > T*rks

>>2824407

Nobody claims that, Abdullah.

>>2821965
Zoroastrianism is monotheistic and was founded by the prophet Zoroaster between the 10th and 5th century BCE. So you're really just talking out your ass.

>>2824433
Safavids weren't a Turkish. The dynasty was a mixture of Pontic Greek, Armenian, Persian, Kurdish, and Iranian Azeris descended from an attested Persian-Kurdish Sufist ancestor.

WE

>>2824433
>Safavids were turkic
No they weren't, Memet.

>>2825473
Everything you are saying and the articles in your image are both factually untrue.

>>2825473
So by that logic Gilan should be filled with blonde and blue eyed aryans, considering neither the Arabs, Turks or Mongols could conquer their region cause of the Daylamite Warlords kicking their shit every time they tried.

And the fact that Vikings from Rus would annualy raid their coastal villages along the Caspian sea and add even more "whiteness" to their women.

>>2825500
>Everything you are saying and the articles in your image are both factually untrue.

that really disproved my argument

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>>2825473
>>2825504
>Iran isn't white anymore
Define whiteness objectively.
>Arabs came in
Arabs had never had any meaningful impact on Iranian populations as genetics have shown modern Iranians do not diverge from their ancestors at all from the Iron Age. A few hundred thousand Arabs didn't put a dent in a gene pool of tens of millions of Iranians at the time of the fall of the Sassanid Empire.
>turks took sloppy seconds
Also untrue. In fact it was the opposite considering modern Turks in the Near East are genetically and ethnically to Greeks, Armenians, and Iranians or Anatolian people then their own ancestors due to sedentary populations assimilating them.

You are a liar and a shitposter.

>>2825622
Modern day Parsis are literally hugely admixed with Indians, they are more mixed then any other Iranian ethnic group save maybe the Kurds. I don't knock on them but most Persians in Iran are a LOT less mixed then they are. And the reason for this is because the deal the Parsees/Parsis made in India was that they can only intermarry with themselves or Indians and can't force in-laws who aren't Zoroastrians to convert.

>>2825632
Oh. My mistake then.

>>2825635
Basically if you want to see what ancient Iranians look like, go to Tajikistan or Iran. Parsis are cool but even religiously if Iran was ever to stop being Muslim they are more likely to switch to Christianity which is the fastest growing religion in Iran after Islam.

>>2825645
What about Zoroastrianism?

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>>2825520
PERSIANS WERE WHITE AND ARYAN SHUT UP

>>2825655
Zoroastrianism can't compare to Christian converts in Iran and its too ceremonial and alienated from modern Iranians sadly.

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>>2825520
>muh persia was white
http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php/46829-Iron-Age-Iranians-are-close-to-modern-day-Iranians-and-Neolithic-Iranians-were-close-Sardinians
http://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2016/07/13/science.aaf7943.full

>We sequenced Early Neolithic genomes from the Zagros region of Iran (eastern Fertile Crescent), where some of the earliest evidence for farming is found, and identify a previously uncharacterized population that is neither ancestral to the first European farmers nor has contributed significantly to the ancestry of modern Europeans.

Funny enough, those "blonde haired, light eyed" nomadic Iranians did shit compared to those "shitskinned Persians.

>>2825664
Meant
>>2825473

>>2825661
*sigh*
Zoroastrism is the original and Abrahamic religions are the copies. Fucking normies.

>>2825664
>>2825520
I like how people always make this claim that Arabs and Turks "diluted" Iranian genetics even though it never happened. Either way though, Iranians today are the same people as they were thousands of years ago. There is literally no "WE WUZ SHAHS n SHIET" ism with Iranians.

>>2821828
The Phoenicians gave the alphabet to Greece and Europe, WHERE ARE THEIR GREAT HISTORIES? WHERE ARE THEIR GREAT STORIES?

Some people are different, and didn't value putting their secrets onto a medium that the whole world could read. The Sumerians mainly wrote about accounting and maths.

>>2825680
This is why:

CARTHAGO DELENDA EST

>>2825500
Just checked his link about the rig veda and it's true


5 O'er Sire and Mother they have roared in unison bright with the verse of praise, burning up riteless men,Blowing away with supernatural might from earth and from the heavens the swarthy skin which Indra hates.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/rv09073.htm

>>2824407
>WE WUZ PERSIAN ARYANS NIGGA, DEM FEW THOUSAND INVADING AY-RABS CHANGED THE GENETICS OF MILLIONS OF US BLONDE HAIR BLUE EYED PERSIANS INTO SAND NIGGERS NIGGA
>>2825224
Literally how?

>>2826345
I was never talking about the Rig Veda. Context in my post was rebutting that shitposter's claim about Iranian genetics and race being altered by Arabs and Turks, which has never happened.

>>2821911
Tajik IIRC basically referred to the city-dwelling people of central asia who generally spoke a more Iranian language with Turkish bits, compared to the nomads who surrounded them who spoke a more Turkish language with Iranian bits. I don't believe that the groups were that ethnically distinct from one another.

I think a good comparison would be that Tajiks in Tajikistan are like the Scottish settlers in the Americas, while Persians are the English.

If you want to consider yourself as essentially Persian I don't think that's terribly off-base. Especially if you're from Afghanistan and not Tajikistan proper, given that Afghanistan spent a lot more time as a part of the same state as Persia than did what is now Tajikistan.

>>2824651
What? No i'm not you fucking retard. Can you even read? Arab muslims used the term Zoroastrian to refer to pagans. Youre so fucking stupid it hurts, this has to be the worst post I've seen in some time.

>>2822307
Do you not know what pagan means?

>>2825675
you are autistic

>>2825473

The painting beneath the Pashtun is fucking Etruscan.

That being said I never agree with the notion of all of an ethnic group looking uniform and monolithic with blue eyes and blonde hair, or all dark eyed and dark haired. Unless you are dealing with a people with a great degree of genetic isolation they have dealt with migrations and intermingling with pre-migratory populaces the world over. In Europe it was pre-Indo-Euroops, in Iran the same deal.

Not even the relatively isolated Danes and Scandinavians are all uniformly 100% blonde and blue eyed so why would the Iranians who came into a plateau that other peoples had dwelt in beforehand?

>>2826532
There isn't really anything more Turkish about Tajik-Persians then Iranian-Persians.

Alevi Zaza here


Alevism is the best religion for Iranian people; it blends shamanism, Zoroastrianism, Buddhism, Christianity and Islam.

It was conceived by the interaction of Sufi mystics with irano-turkics of central Asia and developed over time through the Iranian plateau into Anatolia

>>2821789

>what is the Shahnameh

>>2825645
>the fastest growing religion in Iran after Islam
nigga why the fuck does islam need to grow. iran is already 98% muslim

>>2826955
>it takes a Muslim poet with an Arabic name to compile pre-Islamic Iranian myth, legend, and folk culture in an alien script 500 years after the fall of any autonomous Persia

wew

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>>2827084
Persians have always used alien scripts, like. Old Persian Cuneiform (Achaemenid era) was derived from Cuneiform script which was created by the Sumerians. And Middle Persian Pahlavi script (Sassanid era) was derived from Aramaic.

What do many Persian chauvinists and ignorant Westerners need to understand is that Iranian history culture is deeply tied with that of its neighbors, especially those in the West of Iranians in Mesopotamia and the Levant.

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>>2827084
Also Iranians have been Muslim longer than they have been Zoroastrian. This "Islam is un-Iranian" meme needs to end, from both Eurocentric Westerners and Westeen-struck Iranians.

Iran adopted, developed and expanded Islam the same way the Romans did for Christianity. The Middle East was doing great before the Mongol hordes entered and genocided Iran's population by 90%, setting back Iranian civilization for centuries. They are more to blame for the backwardness of the region than Islam as religions are only as backwards as their followers as can be seen by the evolution of Christian societies in Europe versus those in Africa.

>>2827115
>Old Persian Cuneiform (Achaemenid era)
I thought that Aramaic was already becoming the lingua franca of the near east during the neo-assyrian empire

>>2827084
technically the arabic firdaus is from the old persian word for paradise, so its debatable whether or not its an 'arabic' name

>>2827084
>Ferdowsi
>Muslim

>>2827175
It did, that guy is an idiot. Old Persian written language was heavily influenced by Elamite and Imperial Aramic due to the influence of the Neo-Babylonians and Neo-Assyarian Empires had on Elam and the Medes as well as themselves being vassals to them in the past.

>>2827142
Stop shitposting in my thread.

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>>2827142
>>2827084

>>2827084
>>2827142
>Ferdowsi
>"Muslim"
>"Iranians have been Muslim longer than they have been Zoroastrian."
Here's the (You).

>OP makes thread to talk about Pre-Islamic Iranian cultures, people, and history
>Shitposter immediately posts some low tier low-bow bait while posting like a /v/irgin /pol/ack refugee
High level discourse on /hist/ indeed.

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>>2827291
>>2827302
Literally nothing in my post could be considered shitposting or bait. I'm just hitting the guy who considers pre-Islamic Iran as some kind of different culture and civilization compared to Islamic Iran with some hard facts. I did it also in this post >>2827115 where I explained the direct Semitic origins of all of our three historical alphabets.

As a non-believer trying to look at Iranian history from an unbiased lens, it's baffling how much unwarranted anti-Islamic sentiment exists among others with the same interest. Iran flourished during the Zoroastrian era and Iran flourished during the Islamic era. It wasn't until the arrival of the Mongols with the genocidal destruction of the Iranian lands and people that Iranians truly fell behind on everything. And it wasn't until the Pahlavi era that the nation took on a new direction of redemption.

>>2821774
As for your question OP, I like the Achaemenids, Sassanids, Safavids and Samanids for different reasons.

Achaemenids: unified the Iranian peoples and established Iran as the first world superpower, spreading the advanced methods of Persian administration across the known world, connecting the major ancient civilizations, their unique ideas and cultures

Sassanids: looking up to the Achaemenids, the Sassanids expanded the Empire again, this time with an Orthodox Zoroastrian zeal, inheriting the Perso-Roman wars which would last for centuries, BTFO the Roman Emperor

Samanids: first independent Iranian empire post-Islamization, Ferdowsi, Avicenna, Rudaki; "Here, in this region, the language is Persian, and the kings of this realm are Persian kings."

Safavids: combining Persian administrators with Turkic figures, the Safavids brought back the concept of Iran as a large empire in the region, reviving Iranian imperial pride and holding off the Ottomans. Instead of Orthodox Zoroastrianism like the Sassanids, this dynasty used Shiaism to unite the country to battle the Sunni Ottomans

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>>2827175
>>2827291
There is no reason to call someone an idiot in this discussion. Imperial Aramaic was the most prevalent language of administering the Achaemenid Empire, but that's not what we were talking about. For writing the Old Persian language along with Neo-Babylonian and Neo-Elamite, cuneiform was still the alphabet of choice during the Achaemenid era.

>>2821774
>pre-Islamic only
What for?

>>2827404
This thread is specifically for Pre-Islamic Iranians, what about that is beyond your head that you can't understand? Also what does even "non-believer" remotely have to do with anything in this thread?

And why are you stating debunked claims like "Mongol genocide of Iranians" which are loaded with hyperbole? Or claiming Ferdowsi is a Muslim?

>>2827465
Because the OP wants too? What's hard to understand about that?

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>>2827476
1. OP wanted to discuss various Iranian states, with a focus on pre-Islamic ones. That doesn't mean we can't discuss Islamic states too alongside pre-Islamic states. And it's not like the subject is being changed to China or something for you to sperg out so much over it.

2. Bringing up "non-believer" because in typical cases not dismissing Iran's Islamic era leads to ignorant Westerners/westernstruck Iranians trying to discredit people by calling them Muslim

3. >According to the works of the Iranian historian Rashid al-Din (1247–1318), the Mongols killed more than 700,000 people in Merv and more than a million in Nishapur. The total population of Persia may have dropped from 2,500,000 to 250,000 as a result of mass extermination and famine. Population exchanges did also in some cases occur but depends as of when.

4. I never claimed Ferdowsi is a Muslim though, that was the bait post from that random anon.

>>2821774
My favorite were the Achaemenids because they single handedly carved a distinct Persian nation out of the haphazard soup of tribes and nations whilst also raising the greatest empire the world had ever seen in a matter of decades.

>>2827580
Ferdowsi was a Muslim.

I quote him

>"The Reign of Umar came ove Iran and the Pulpit replaced he Throne"

When portraying the Muslim victory he praised their bravery and down to earthness while also portraying the defeat having been brought on by Rostam following astrology rather than strategy

>>2827291
>I don't agree with historical fact
>wahhh stop shitposting

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>>2827142
>Also Iranians have been Muslim longer than they have been Zoroastrian. This "Islam is un-Iranian" meme needs to end

Is there an Iranian version of pic related?

>>2827580
I am the OP and I said I only wanted a thread on pre-Islamic Iranians. What about this is going over your little brain?

>According to the works of the Iranian historian Rashid al-Din
>the Mongols killed more than 700,000 people in Merv
Okay
>and more than a million in Nishapur
Okay
>The total population of Persia may have dropped from 2,500,000 to 250,000 as a result of mass extermination and famine
There is literally no attested or historical proof Persia's population in the mid-13th century prior to the Mongol invasion was ever that low. So not buying it, its historical hyperbole.

>>2827923
>Ferdowsi was a Muslim.
>historically on record denouncing Islam over his entire life and possessing pro-Zoroastrian beliefs in all his works
>"Muslim"
Next you'll say Rumi was a Turk.

>>2828677
Your pic would be correct but I do want to point out that there are still Zoroastrians in Iran and North India (descendants of refugees who fled Arab conquest), so its not totally LARP tier. Although any Zoroastrians on 4chan are 100% larping

>>2828692
Mongol invasion of the Iranian plateau was a fucking genocide you retard. Population of Iran didnt recover to pre-Mongol levels until the 20th century.

>>2828705
>Mongol invasion of the Iranian plateau was a fucking genocide
I'm not denying lots of Iranians all over Central Asia and in Iran were killed, I'm denying the claim "90%" of the entire sedentary population were wiped out given there is little actual tangible or physical proof of said hyperbolic claims of how many people being killed.

>>2827923
>Ferdowsi
>glorifying the Arabs or Islam
That why's he literally is the first Persian writer to glorify Piruz who murdered Umar then?

>>2827580
If you want to take about Islamic Iranians, go make your own fucking thread.

>>2821911
>What's the difference between Tajik and Persian?

Tajiks weren't originally Persian-speakers, nor were they a fixed part of the pre-Islamic Persian empires. They were the peoples of Samarkand, Bukhara and the Ferghana valley. They used to be a part of the central Asian empires like the Hephtalites. They spoke different Iranic languages than Persian. Mostly Khwarezmian, Soghdian and Khotanese, which belonged to eastern Iranic family like Pashto, rather than western like Persian. Their branch of Zoroastrianism was a bit divergent too, since for instance they've allegedly worshipped Siavash as a deity.

Only after the Muslim conquest the spread of the Persian court culture and influx of Persian speakers meant that the region was persianized culturally.

Later on the influx of Turkic speakers and the political developments with the Uzbek khanates and later Russia cut off this Persian-speaking population from the rest of Persian-speaking world. They remained mostly in the cities and the eastern part that became Tajikistan.

The name Tajik iirc is an offensive name that Turks used to call Persians, and it comes from the Arabic tribe of Tazi. Later on the Russians started using it to call their Persian-speaking subjects, and the Tajiks took it up themselves.

In general, Bobojan Gafurov has a pretty good and comprehensive history of Tajikistan. It comes from communist times, but it just means there's a lot of economy (which is a good thing desu) and some sidestepping of Uzbek-Tajik political and ethnic issues.

>>2828730
Apparently hating Arabs and preserving your Cultural identity is the same as leaving Islam.

Also, Could you please give me the source on his glorifying Abu Lulu because the Shahnammeh ends at the Battle of Qadissia in 637 which was 7 years before Umar's assassination.

He was simply a nationalist who wished to retain his Iranian identity and culture whilst following Islam. If he wasn't a Muslim then why would he even use Ferdowsi (Arabic for the inhabitants of the Highest Haven according to the Quran) as his Pen name?

>>2828692
He never denounced Islam in the Shahnammeh (His only known work) he simply denounced Arabs ( Which most pseudo intellectuals here take to mean Muslims ).

Plus he was never pro Zoroastrian. That's like saying if you record the perspective of Nazis you automatically become a NatSoc or if you try to understand the mind of ISIS you are to be considered an Islamist.

Also, Rumi was Afghan.

>>2828692
>Next you'll say Rumi was a Turk.
>>2829168
>Also, Rumi was Afghan.
Rumi was from Romania though. Why else would he call himself that?

>>2829156
I think you need to stop projecting so much.

>>2829156
>Why would he even use Ferdowsi
Because there was a social and economic advantage in the Middle East under the Arab Caliphates to name ones children with Arabic names?

>>2829168
There was no such thing as "Afghanis" back then. All of what makes up modern day Afghanistan and Tajikistan with Iran and parts of Pakistan and Uzbekistan are what is Greater Iran/Khorasan.

>he was never pro-Zoroastrian
lol

>>2829168
Don't bother, friendo. The morons in this thread have no sense of historical context or nuance. Good on you for actually exhibiting knowledge of the Shahnameh, unlike the faggot replying to you; he's either a revisionist WE WUZing Iranian or else a LARPer who learnt a bit too much about Persia in order to impress that Iranian girl he wanted to fuck.

In fact, I'm sure the OP is the same guy who makes a thread on Iran every few days then spergs out like a retard when we don't all fall to our knees and begin masturbating to the images of Cyrus and Shapur with rosewater lube.

On a separate note, Ferdowsi was one arrogant motherfucker (I guess he earned it); these are the last two couplets of the Shahnameh:

از آن پس نمیرم که من زندهام
که تخم سخن من پراگندهام
هر آنکس که دارد هش و رای و دین
پس از مرگ بر من کند آفرین

https://ganjoor.net/ferdousi/shahname/yazdgerd3/sh17/

Roughly translated by a pleb with no poetic ability:
>I shall not die for I am alive
>I have spread the seed of my speech
>Whomsoever has intelligence, wisdom, and faith
>After my death shall praise me

>>2830662
This is a whole lot of bait in one post.

>>2828692
Sounds like you're just an uneducated Persian chauvinist, with nationalistic emotions guiding your views rather than historical objectivity.

You even said in the OP you want a discussion about Iranian States with a preference for the pre-Islamic era. Bringing up Islamic era Iranian States is still extremely relevant to the thread. And it's not like we're here to serve you anyway, conversation flows naturally and dynasties such as the Samanids and Safavids are just as relevant to a thread about Iranian historical states.

Sperging out over Iran's ~2.5 million population from a thousand years ago just shows your illiteracy, nothing more, so I have nothing to prove to you here.

By the way, I don't want to claim that Ferdowsi was a Muslim, but his distates for the Arabs was because of their Arabian culture moreso than the religion. Iran had been an Islamic nation for centuries during Ferdowsi's time.

>>2830726
I don't think you know what chauvinism is. Also not Persian but whatever, your delusions are really strange.

>Bringing up Islamic era Iranian States

OP states discussion on Pre-Islamic Iranians. There is no caveat or tangent that would welcome Islamic Iranian discussion in this thread yet for some reason your autism and blindness refuse to accept that fact.

"I want a thread to discuss pre-Islamic Iranian people"
"Fuck you dude I want to talk about Islamic Iranians regardless"

You should neck yourself for such obstinateness.

>>2821774
Eary Persia was definitely my favorite. Cyrus the great was so amazing its only logical tht his descendants couldnt follow in his footsteps.

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>>2821877
Hey man, that hurts. My family are kurds from the north of Iran.

>>2821910
But the most Turks who invaded Iran got PERSIAN'D

>>2831332
Don't listen to that idiot, Kurds are just as Iranian as Persians.

>>2833584
Most other Iranians hate Kurds though.

>>2833584
>>2833653
Its just turks who hate kurds. The ones who are hated are the ones outside Iran anyway. Most of the Iranian Kurds don't want to seperate and create Kurdistan as opposed to the ones in Iraq and Turkey.

>>2825664
>shitskinned Persians.
The Persians were literally the Steppe peoples, in the region that was Persia, there's an elevation of R1A, the Medes were semi nomadic when living in the region.

>>2826509
It's more like the Iranian steppe nomads gradually interbred with their swarthier and far more numerous Mittani and Elamite subjects. Most of what's now Iran was never predominantly populated by tall blue eyed and red/blonde haired people.

Azeris literally converted entire Iran to Shia by murdering Sunni Iranians lmao

>>2834408
>Mittani
Not really at all.
>Elamites
They were already nearly genocided and almost completely wiped out by the Assyrians repeatedly by the time the Iranics showed up there, so that is also doubtful.

>populated by tall blue eyed and red/blonde haired people
Never said that. But Iranians have always ranged between fair skinned to olive-skinned depending on what region or area they hail from. the climate, and weather. You can see the very same parity with Greeks, Italians, Armenians, Spaniards, Portuguese, etc...

I don't think Elamites ever had a signifigant impact on Iranian genetics because they were simply on their last legs already by the time the Medes and Persians start asserting themselves thanks to the Neo-Assyrians going around butchering the Elamite towns and cities.

>>2825520
>Also untrue. In fact it was the opposite considering modern Turks in the Near East are genetically and ethnically to Greeks, Armenians, and Iranians or Anatolian people then their own ancestors due to sedentary populations assimilating them.
>Persian inferiority complex
yes the Turkmens who invaded Anatolia were ching chong ping lings, totally not caucasoid/quarter mongoloids at all.

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>>2834491
What inferiority complex?

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>>2834491
forgot pic

>>2834497
Don't worry we got you covered >>2834496

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>>2834496
The well-known Persian inferiority complex towards Arabs and Turks.
There's a reason why everyone in Middle East considers Ajams as enemies.
>>2834498
Was Nader Shah also a Greek?

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>>2834491
>quarter cacascoid
>quarter mongoloid
Chinese/Turkics/Hunnics/Mongols are all Mongoloids...so what are you talking about, senpai?

>>2834509
I think that other anon is right. You are kind of mad and projecting.

>Nadir Shah
Its funny because while he might've been from a Turkic tribe, his clan and family were so Persianized and assimilated he identified as an Iranian first.

Also

>inferiority complex toward Turks and Arabs
I don't think they do, Memet. I think that's just what your kind tells themselves.

>>2834491
>look like ching ching ding dongs
>within a generation or two look like Arabs
lmao

>>2834509
rofl

Your kind can't even deal with Kurds and Arabs were literally permanently broken by emerging Iranian states that broke the last native Arab caliphate's power for good. Inferiority complex is nonsensical.

>>2834518
>Chinese/Turkics/Hunnics/Mongols are all Mongoloids...so what are you talking about, senpai?

I am talking about TURKMENS who invaded Anatolia. Retardinjo. There was no such thing as "Turkish" back then. Only Oghuzes and Turkmens existed.
>Its funny because while he might've been from a Turkic tribe, his clan and family were so Persianized and assimilated he identified as an Iranian first.
who cares?
>I don't think they do, Memet. I think that's just what your kind tells themselves.
Please Rostam, crawl back to Tehran and stop larping as a Non-Persian.
Don't worry, i'd also be buttblasted if i were a Persian and Arabs/Turks ruled my country for the last 1000 years

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>>2834525
>Turkmens
Mongoloids.
>who cares
You do? You brought up because his family origins are Turkic, now that you got rebutted on it, you dismiss it. Talk about trying to change the goal posts.
>Rostam
Not Iranian, Memet.
>rule Iranians for a thousand years
Never happened with either the Arabs or the Turks from what I checked unless you are going to start trying to claim WE WUZISM with all native Iranian dynasties post-651 being Turkic.

You seem mad.

>>2834524
>Your kind can't even deal with Kurds
Your mental retardation shows.
Tell me how many Kurds died since 1984. And tell me how many Turks died since 1984. And tell me what happened to the Kurds who tried to start a civil war in Eastern Anatolia in 2015.
>Arabs were literally permanently broken by emerging Iranian states that broke the last native Arab caliphate's power for good

And then the Seljuks came and bashed Persians.
>within a generation or two look like Arabs
>P*RSIAN CALLING ANYONE YOU LOOK ARAB
ayy

>>2834533
>>2834525
>>2834509
>>2834491
Here's the (You).

>>2834532
>Mongoloids.
:)
>You do? You brought up because his family origins are Turkic, now that you got rebutted on it, you dismiss it. Talk about trying to change the goal posts.
3000 years of Zoroastrian inbreeding shows up
What i was talking about was his phenotype, not what he called himself.
>Never happened with either the Arabs or the Turks from what I checked unless you are going to start trying to claim WE WUZISM with all native Iranian dynasties post-651 being Turkic.

Let me see
Arab dominion till Buyids
Buyids=Shia Persians
Seljuks=Oghuz Turkmens
Safavids=Azeris
Afsharids=Afshar Turkmens
Kajar=Azeris

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>>2834548
forgot pic

>>2834533
>complain to the US about arming and supporting the Kurds for decades
>"N-no u"
Try again, Memet.
>And then the
Here's the part about formal argumentation that you suck clearly at performing or understanding: you claimed the Arabs ruled Iranians for a thousand years, when in fact it was less then 200 years, then when it was pointed out they actually got wrecked by native Iranian Islamic empires like the Samanids, Saffarids, Buyids, etc...you bring up also the Turks.

Who even being most generous never came close to a thousand years.

>Seljuks came and bashed Persians
>get assimilated by Iranians, Greeks, Armenians, other Levatine and Anatolian peoples
>"Bashed Persians"
And then the Mongols raped almost all the Turkic states in the Near East. What's your point?

>>2834552
They don't look Caucasoid at all.

>>2834558
>They don't look Caucasoid at all.
By that logic i'm a Korean warlord.
>And then the Mongols raped almost all the Turkic states in the Near East. What's your point?
Who cares? No one talked about Mongols at all itt.
What i'm pointing out is that something different.

>>2834548
>>2834552
>:)
Yep.
>3000 years of Zoroastrian inbreeding
Zoroastrians aren't a race and I'm still not Iranian, Memet. I think pederasty your kind however has a fondness for might have been an issue with your people.

>Arab dominion
>Abbassids
Replaced the Umayyads thanks to Iranian/Iranic peoples supporting them politically, militarily, and economically, completely reliant on said Iranian Intermezzo dynasties for their power, never recovered fully to be independent of them.
>Seljuks
Raped by Mongols.
>Safavids=Azeris
Safavids are Iranian dynasty that is a mixed lineage of Persians, Azeris (Azeris are an Iranian people), Kurds, and Pontic Greeks.
>Afsharids
Nadir was one man and his "dynasty" ended with his death.
>Kajar
Its Qajar, and no they were not Azeris.

>>2834569
Seljuks were not "raped by mongols". Anatolian Seljuks and Original Seljuks are different.
Anushtigins and Turkish warlords destroyed Seljuks.
>Azeris are an Iranian people
Now i'm 10000% sure i'm talking to an Ajam
>WE WUZ AZERI AND SHIEET

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>>2834564
>by that logic i'm a korean warlord
You don't even know what logic is. What you are is not Caucasian. Modern Turks and Turkmens are literal mongrels because everyone and their mother have assimilated your kind. Turkmen did not become Caucasoid from Mongoloids overnight.
>Who cares?
We all do. You lose an issue, you bring up something outside the original argument/subject, and then when someone does turnabout to you, you bitch about it.

Turks have *never* ruled Iranians for a thousand years and Arabs ruled them even less, under 200-300 years at maximum. And their direct influence died with the destruction of the Umayyads.

Also here in my image is a Turkmen female in Iran. Most Turkmens in Iran are semi-nomadic and keep to themselves. Funny how they still look Mongoloid unlike the ones you showed.

>>2834583
>Seljuks were not raped by Mongols
Yes they were.
>Azeris
Azeris are descendent of Iranian people living in Media-Atropatane (Azerbaijan) since before the Medes rise to power. Their language was an Iranian language. Your kind Turkified their language but genetically they are still Iranian.

>still trying to poison the well and call me Iranian
I'm laughing.

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>>2834583
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasions_of_Anatolia
>Seljuks were not "raped by mongols"

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>>2834591
that's one girl.
As i mentioned before, they're caucasoid/quarter mongoloids.
also
>Funny how they still look Mongoloid unlike the ones you showed.
>They don't look Caucasoid at all.

I am not even going to respond because i just realized that i'm being baited

>>2834639
>that's one girl
That's literally almost every Turkmen in Iran and Afghanistan.
>quarter mongoloids
>cascuoids
Nah.

>baited
No, you are the bait.

>>2821828
Writing is for dweebs. Steppe chads were busy conquering shit.

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>tfw butthurt Turk wrecking up the thread