Is this pic true?

>>2814689
Sort of, the kulaks did sperg out and start burning their crops and killing their animals rather than have them stolen from them. The ukranians were also very anti the soviet government and one of the most bougiouse attitude wise.

>>2814689
Yes

>hoard grain during a famine and try to exploit starving people for profit

We wuz da victims n shiet, we dindu nuffin!

Stalin was a good person that knew he was smart as fuck, so he did whatever he could to keep himself in power.Also, Stalin saved the slavic race.Otherwise Hitler's regime would've wiped everyone out a la Auschwitz

>>2814717
>stalin saved the slavic race
hmmm post proofs, or at least tell me more, I heard otherwise.

>>2814733
>Hitler believes he is fighting against jewish bolshevism
>hitler hates slavs, especially russians and poles
>poles for killing germans in danzig and russians because da j00ish bolshevism
>wants to wipe them all out
>attacks USSR before USSR is fully prepared
>Stalin uses all means possible to save russiya , meaning fuckton of russians are meatshields
>russian winter and a few unsuccessful attacks make russia win

>>2814689
Propaganda.

>>2814698
>>2814706
>>2814717
>>2814781
Man, tankies are delusional.

>>2814698
Was it really stealing or he really wanted to buy it?

>>2814802
t. Kulak Kulakovich

>>2814706
>pretending it wasn't the Soviet officials who were hiding the grain

"I made a discovery which left me tremulous with horror. Stacked in the brick structure were thousands of poods of the previous year's grain collections! These were the State reserves for the district ordered by the government, their very existence hidden from the starving population by officialdom."
-Alexander Lukashenko, I Chose Freedom

>>2814813

Stalin wanted to collectivize agriculture and in doing so he destroyed the closest thing that Russia ever had to a middle-class up to that point.

>>2814828
fuck wrong guy lmao

>>2814802
fuck off retard I have an actual source what about you?

Kill, it's not ours any more ... Kill, they'll take it for meat anyway ... kill, you won't get meat on the collective farm ... and they killed. They ate until they could eat no more. Young and old suffered from stomach ache. At dinner time tables groaned under boiled and roasted meat. At dinner time everyone had a greasy mouth... everyone blinked like an owl, as if drunk from eating. - Mikhail Sholokhov Virgin soil upturned (1933)

>>2814813
They took it without paying for it.

>>2814828
Chuckle a bit, it's some kinda new thriller you promoting?

>>2814689
Yep

>>2814831
Russian peasants always lived in communes for more than 1000 years, that why imperial agrarian reform, where they tried to create individual farmers, failed

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>>2814828
Now do you see Edward, you've been using humans in your transmutations all along

>>2814856

>Russian peasants always lived in communes

Were these communes voluntary or not?

>>2814689
It's true, but it's portrayed in a very dishonest and propagandist way.

Are you commies retarded?

They had district death quotas. The entire goal was to liquidate minorities

>>2814902
*Kulaks

>>2814872
>Were these communes voluntary or not?
Yeah, they literally created them to deal with the troubles collectively, especially during serfdom

>>2814908

So if that is true, then why recreate them by force? What stops peasants from simply choosing to form to new communes instead of being forced by the government?

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>>2814689
>Is this MS Paint meme propaganda an accurate representation of historical events?

Holy shit can /pol/ and /leftypol/ just leave already?

>>2814706
This, I do not feel sorry for obstructionists who stand in the way of progress and larger goals. They had to go.

>>2814920
Peasants from those communities joined voluntarily, "by force" where joined wealthy farmers a.k.a kulaks who didn't want to share wealth with there rest of the village. And of corse wealthy farmers from the south with their rich soil didn't want to share food with people in central russia where factories where build on wich factories tractors and combines were build for agricalture and not forget people from the north wich couldn't produse much food but atleast they contributed by their rich amount of resourses like wood, minerals e.t.c

For Ukrainian peasant, it was without a exception 'Jewish communism', because Kiev NKVD was 3/4 manned by Jews (to be exact: 39% of Chekists in leadership, 75% of men in the field) during the genocide (even though Moscow Cheka instructed in early January 1919 to remove Jew's from leading positions in Kiev Cheka and to 'kill few Yids for provocation', the amount of Jews in leadership declined only for a while and already in mid-20's, Jews were the largest group in Kiev Cheka-GPU).

Yes, Russian muzhik wanted commune to have all land in their possession for distribution among peasants in their mir. When February happened, they went and started their 'Black Redistribution' and continued it after Bolshevik coup. Bolsheviks vehemently were against it, but since thet could do nothing about it for several years, they adopted the SR land reform policy.
Ukrainian peasants and Don Cossacks on the other hand, did not share this communal idea and prefered private mulling of the land and were obviously even more ferocious against Bolshevik stealing their lands and making them 'hired hands' in collective farms what was before their own land.

During the acute crisis that was caused by the forced collectivization, Moscow continued to sell grain abroad, for Germany among others. So even if those Kiev Chekist would have managed to extract more grain, none more would been available for the starving Ivans.

Apologists, what makes these savages tick I wonder?

>>2814996
combines= grain harvesters

>>2814843
Source on what, retard? Burden of proof is not on me. Also the word of a guy that
>became a member of the CPSU Central Committee in 1961, Academician of the USSR Academy of Sciences in 1939, and was a member of the USSR Supreme Soviet.
doesn't constitute very convincing proof to me.

>>2814689

Yes, people pretend that Stalin and Communism were responsible for the famine but actually it was the Kulak Capitalist class. There weren't any more famines once they had been liquidated.

>>2815009
It is not up for interpretation that some peasants slaughtered and ate animals rather than hand them over.

>>2814856
It was owned land you helped on because then they would help on yours
You still had the idea of private property
Lynch has a textbook on russia that's a good read

>>2815004
One should also understand that 'kulak' become pejorative term only in the minds of intelligentsia in early 20th century, before that it didn't have exact meaning (except, of course, meaning 'fist') for the muzhik and was usually understand to mean hard working peasant, well-to-do or not.
Hell, Uljanov used the term after seizing power so loosely that it could mean absolutely anyone.

>>2815004
>'Jewish communism'
>mfw they were actually ruled by an ethnic Pole

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Kosior

>>2815013
>implying soviet peasants didn't had "private property"

>>2815004
>During the acute crisis that was caused by the forced collectivization, Moscow continued to sell grain abroad, for Germany among others. So even if those Kiev Chekist would have managed to extract more grain, none more would been available for the starving Ivans.
Yeah, sanctions on everything except grain didn't helped much, John

>>2815032
Apologist logic 101.

And I don't doubt that these apologist species exist, they were everywhere in university I attended, even among our dear professors.

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>>2815046
>"Huh, those pity professors in their lousy universities, no one can comprehend my genius"
Whatever you say, lad

>>2815012
>It is not up for interpretation that some peasants slaughtered and ate animals rather than hand them over.
Some peasants =/= 'the kulaks'
Also, what irrefutable proof is there?

>>2815017
Poles, as a nationality, came only after Jews, Russians and Ukrainians in Kiev NKVD during the genocide (for a very short while, Poles were the second largest group in Kiev Cheka in early 1919).
And there is actually very little evidence that Kosior was largely involved with grain extract.

There of course is prominent Chekists, like Iron Felix himself, who were Poles and - for example - Latvians (real Latvians, not the, yet another loose term used by Uljanov). Jewish Chekists on other hand blabbered less, worked more, just like revolutionary Jews in 19th century.

>tfw u remember that communism failed
Damn...

>>2815012

There is literally nothing wrong with that. If I'm a farmer, and I know that somebody is going to steal my pig, then I'm going to slaughter the pig and eat it before it gets stolen.

>>2815061
If a professor - in Russian or more general Slavic studies - denies student works on subjects that bring negative attention to Communists (but has no problem with similar studies on the National Socialists - just don't call them 'socialists' - or Italian Fascists), it's quite alarming. My works were on these subjects and without inteference from a non-leftist professor, my works would been thrown to the bin and disqualified. Luckily, cancerious growth knows limit.

>>2815004
What is your source on 75% of Chekists in the field being Jews?

>>2815078
then don't cry when you got nothing to eat some time later

>>2814906
>switching classification from ethnicity to class (kulaks were farmers, not muh bourgeoisie) makes it suddenly okay
>not realizing that the class was dominated by Ukrainians, and class specification is a covert means of hiding intended genocide under the auspices of economic reasoning.

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>>2815082
>(but has no problem with similar studies on the National Socialists - just don't call them 'socialists' - or Italian Fascists)
like clockwork

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>>2815083
Clearly it is stormfag propaganda, we must work hard to preserve the Jewish image.

>>2815086

>Steal somebody's food
>They end of starving
>Somehow this is their fault

>>2815093
>divide country on ethnic republics
>promote ethnic minorities
>sudenly genocide them
You not the sharpest tool in the shed

>>2815083
'Who led the NKVD, 1934-1941' by Nikita Petrov. Can't be bothered to the find the exact page and footnotes. Most probably the general source was Kiev Communist Party archive.

During 1918, the same 75% (or 3/4) number in used by both Chamberlin and Richard Pipes in their 'Russian revolution's', but again, don't remember their source for the number.

>>2815118
>Kiev Communist Party archive.
or 'Ukrainian Communist Party' or what the fuck was name of main organ.

>>2815101
>>Steal somebody's food
Their animals and fields become part of the collective farm and them as well, they just started share their wealth with the rest of the village. Also learn about the thing called "taxes" dumb dumb

>>2815099
This guy is irrelevant. I don't know why /pol/acks made him a scapegoat. He wasn't responsible for the famine.

>>2815134

>Taxation
>Without Representation

Literally theft.

>>2815064
>And there is actually very little evidence that Kosior was largely involved with grain extract.
Interesting. Ukrainian court disagrees.

http://khpg.org/en/index.php?id=1265217823
It was obviously a political trial. Who was the most responsible for the famine according to you? Stalin?

>>2815142

Property is theft.

>>2815134
>Their animals and fields become part of the collective farm and them as well, they just started share their wealth with the rest of the village
If by "share wealth" you mean slave away for the party, sure. People in kolkhozes barely earned anything.

>>2815168
That's a self-contradicting statement.

>>2815187

So is that.

>>2815171
They didn't need to earn much, all the basic needs and opportunities were guaranteed by the government, they earned enough for anything else. Being decadent selfish scum is not the basic human right

>>2815154
Well, he was obviously just as responsible as every other Ukrainian party member and high Chekist official.

Main culprit is the Georgian turned Great Russian of course, but those Chekists who gave direct orders for grain extraction and those who did the deed, are responsible enough to be 'beaten, hanged and shot' to quote Uljanov.

>>2815139
>head of the NKVD during Holodomor and in charge of the gulag system
>The policy of forced collectivization and elimination of kulaks (genocide) led to 2,200 rebellions in 1930 involving more than 800,000 people. Lazar Kaganovich (Jew) and Anastas Mikoyan (Armenian) with Yagoda (Jew) led expeditions into the countryside with "brigades of OGPU troopers and armoured trains like warlords"
>Yagoda had told Stalin that the "only way of dealing with the kulaks was with bullets."

>>2815213
And who disagrees with what. Polish court would also have prosecuted Solomon Morel for genocide, but he was given refugee by state of Israel and that Polish prosecution framed 'antisemitic'.

>>2815200
>They didn't need to earn much
They didn't earn jack shit, you idiot, they were payed less than people in sweatshops nowadays.
>Being decadent selfish scum is not the basic human right
>decadent=have something more than half a kilo of grain per day
You're insane. Also ,do you mean decadent like the party and other bureaucrats?

>>2815214
Tell this to Ukrainians. See:

>>2815154
I'm sure their historians know better than you.

>>2815200

>Having more than you "need" is wrong

Might as well go back to living in caves then.

>>2815198
No, it's not. Theft means stealing someone's property, property itself cannot be theft, it's a self-contradicting statement.

>>2815231
>Having more than you "need"
>Being that weak, can't even come up with what you need in live

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>>2814689>>2814698
>>2814706

>Urkanian nationalists want to break free of USSR
>Stalin sells grain he collects from Ukraine to buy capitalist machinery in an attempt to modernize. Also to stifle Ukrainian nationalists by starving them
>It's the Ukrainians fault somehow that they're starving when the government sells their grain instead of feeding them.

Guess what well known and particularly shaped political theory I'm going to quote next.

>>2815254
>Ukrainian nationalists
Is this even true? Was there a nationalist movement in Eastern Ukraine? OUN operated in Western Ukraine.

>>2815254
>buy capitalist machinery
Why don't you tell what machinery it was, german tractors, guess where they usually used

>>2815254
>citations needed

>>2815235
>Theft means stealing

Those mean the same thing, that is meaningless statement.

Kulaks slaughtered around 90-95 million livestock in 1930-1932 alone. They had it coming.

>>2815228
Politics m8.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ihor_Kolomoyskyi

Ihor Valeriyovych Kolomoyskyi (Ukrainian: Iгop Baлepiйoвич Кoлoмoйcький; Russian: Игopь Baлepьeвич Кoлoмoйcкий, Igor Kolomoisky; Hebrew: איגור קולומויסקי; born February 13, 1963) is a Ukrainian-Cypriot-Israeli business oligarch of Jewish descent and the former Governor of Dnipropetrovsk Oblast.[10]

A multibillionaire, Kolomoyskyi is rated as the second or third richest person in Ukraine (after Rinat Akhmetov and/or Viktor Pinchuk) since 2006.[11][12] and 377th richest person in the world by the Forbes (as of 2011).[5] In March 2015 The Economist listed his net worth as $1.36 billion.[13] Kolomoyskyi is the leading partner of the Privat Group and a de facto chairman of the FC Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk.[14]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Pinchuk

Victor Pinchuk (Ukrainian: Biктop Mихáйлoвич Пiнчýк, Viktor Mykhailovych Pinchuk; born 14 December 1960) is a Ukrainian businessman and philanthropist. As of January 2016, Forbes ranked him as 1250th on the list of wealthiest people in the world, with a fortune of US $1.44 billion

Pinchuk was born in 1960 in Kyiv to Jewish parents[3][4]

>>2815296
They bought factory machinery from other places too you filthy Tankie.

>>2815273
Yes, But I'm not sure if there was a movement in the East. There was certainly one in the west.

>>2815308
What does this have to do with Holodomor? Kaganovich and some other Jew were found guilty.

>>2815139
Because he's Jewish. Ukrainian nationalism is built on rabid antisemitism and xenophobia.

>>2815318
>They bought factory machinery from other places too you filthy Tankie.
>>2815032

>>2815328
Sure, but why him? I think it's just general ignorance.

>>2815328
>X nationalism is built on antisemitism and xenophobia

Where there is smoke there is fire.

>>2815349
antisemitism is pathological and not grounded in reality. jews are blamed for all social problems.

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>>2815339
>Apologism for genocide is ok when supporting my tankie beliefs and not when Nazis do it.


And Commies tell me horseshoe theory is just a meme

>>2815357
Jews are disproportionately responsible for anti-nationalist propaganda (except for israel).
Jews are disproportionately responsible for degenerate (hedonistic, anti-famility unit) propaganda.
Why would anyone who believe in nations, the family, virtuous behavior, not be against jews as a group?

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>>2814689
Kulaks were asking for it, it's like poking a bear with a stick and getting upset when it rips your face off.

>>2815200
>They didn't need to earn much, all the basic needs and opportunities were guaranteed
LITERALLY ARGUING FOR SLAVERY

>>2815393

Tankies and storm-fags are made from the same clay.

>>2814689
Well soviet apologism is doing what it can but there's really nothing you can do to justify crimes against people in Ukraine or Kazakhstan.

>>2815376
Nonsense.

>>2815393
>>2815398
You don't have opportunities in slavery, retards

>>2815415
Opportunities? Like what? Sell out your neighbor for speaking bad of the party and you get promoted to earning an extra bread loaf a day?

>>2815376
Jews are simultaneously blamed for being internationalists and nationalists; progressive "degenerates" (meaningless reactionary dogwhistle) and superstitious backwards tribalism; capitalists and communists; racists and egalitarians; cosmopolitans and chauvinistic war mongers. If Jews integrate they're accused of trying to take over, if they stay separate, they're accused of regarding themselves as superior and clannishness. Jews are a scapegoat for everything, used by people to mask true social issues by blaming the "Other". As Hegel said, "evil resides in the very gaze which perceives evil all around itself.”

The obsession with Jews is pointless. All groups have their disagreements. If Jews are prominent in spreading propaganda, it is likely because of their longstanding propensity towards academic, intellectual pursuits.

>>2815413
Except it's not, go find out who write articles on that stuff. Jews make up a disproportionate amount.

>>2815398
That's why they can go so easily from killing to supporting each other. A guy on /pol/ can claim to hate commies but because Putin propaganda told him that Ukrainians are evil and don't exist he doesn't know how to feel about the famine.

>>2815438
A lot of /pol/ types dislike Putin actually, they think he's a secret Jew because he criminalised Holocaust Denial.

>>2815433
Jews should go live in Israel and leave us goyim alone.

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>>2815425
Opportunities for you and your children not to be just fucking peasants for the rest of eternity aswell as your neigboors and their children

>>2815442
I'm not surprised you think that, Zionism has always been tacitly supported by people who dislike Jews since in their mind it means getting rid of them. Of course, Israel's existence only leads to more bloodshed.

>>2815436
That's completely irrelevant. How many Jews are there in the world? How many of them write these articles?
Think for a moment.

>>2815442
Jews gave us the atom bomb.

Under no circumstances should be abandon our strategic Jew reserves. The Nazis and the Soviets chased them off, and we beat those guys up.

>>2815320
That was in 2010, prior to the 2014 revolution and the dissolvement of that government.

>Volodymyr Borysovych Groysman,[3] sometimes transliterated as Volodymyr Borysovych Hroisman[4] (Ukrainian: Boлoдимиp Бopиcoвич Гpoйcмaн;[5] Yiddish: וואָלאָדימיר באָריסאָוויטש גרויסמאַן) (born 20 January 1978),[6] is a Ukrainian politician who has been the Prime Minister of Ukraine since 14 April 2016.[7]

>Volodymyr Borysovych Groysman was born in Vinnytsia into a Jewish family on 20 January 1978.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volodymyr_Groysman

>>2815433
>Jews are simultaneously blamed for being internationalists and nationalists
No, at best they're blamed for being internationalist for everyone else and nationalist for themselves. But plenty of them are completely antinationalists, so they overall tip towards anti-nationalist worldviews.
>progressive "degenerates" (meaningless reactionary dogwhistle)
Except it's not meaningless, I literally gave examples right there. And btw, dogwhistles aren't a thing.
>and superstitious backwards tribalism
Nope, almost nobody accuses them of that because most jews don't really care about religion.
The rest is the same stuff, you pretend like both currents are equally represented among jews which they're not. What you're saying doesn't change anything, pick an article on how white people are so bad and the likelihood of it being written by a jew is disproportionately high. Or about how gays are just fine and dandy and just-like-usTM

>>2815442

The goyim are always complaining about the Jews in Israel, though. It's always "wah, wah, wah you've skilled a smelly Palestinian child." Well boo fucking hoo.

>>2815451
>How many Jews are there in the world? How many of them write these articles?
Exactly, they're a minuscule fraction of the world population but they're not even remotely as small a minority among journalists with those opinions.
Think for a moment, it's rates you want, not absolute numbers.

>>2815457
Nothing to do with Yagoda being responsible for the famine.

>>2814706
This, kulaks have a massive victim/martyr complex and act as if they did no wrong. They drum it up especially to get sympathy and it's disgusting how many fall for it.

>>2815142
>a huge revolution overthrowing a government and then an entire class of aristocrats and experienced military personnel that tried to reinstate the monarchy in a huge civil war
>no representation
ok bro

Sure, US is the ideal where everyone is glad that their leader is so representative of their people, amiright?

>>2815463
Do you have any proof of this? You know, USA and Britain aren't the only countries in the world. What about French or German journalists?

>>2815467
The Jews, vested in their economic interests and control of Ukraine, smelled the nationalist, anti-Jewish sentiment rising there and staged the coup.

>>2815369
>Can't comprehend the definition of genocide
You sure should thanks the soviets there's no Third Reich nowaday, with such mental disabilities of yours

>>2815484
I can tell it's the same in my country, and I know it's the same in sweden. Don't know about germany and france.

>>2815485
Are you mentally challenged? What does this have to do with Yagoda? I don't care about your modern /pol/ conspiracies, this thread is about holodomor.

>>2815491
What country? Can you give some examples? 10 Jewish journalists supporting these values should be enough.

>>2815497
>modern /pol/ conspiracies
>literal Jewish control of the Ukrainian economy and now, post-coup government

Loving Every Laugh. What kind of person would lower their IQ and ignore such obvious issues?

>>2815508
It's not like I keep a list, just whenever I read an article like that I find out it's a mr leibowitz a lot more than 3% of the times.

>>2815484
US media is what everyone parrots tho.

>>2815513
Can you stop changing the subject?

>>2814689
>collectivization
>efficiency
Pick one.

>>2815527
So you have no proof?

>>2814717
>Stalin saved the slavic race
By killing more of them than Hitler?

>>2815415
Sure you do.
Become a house slave and maybe your master will teach you to read and cipher and dress you in fancy clothes so he can show you off as a curiosity at parties.

>>2815538
To give you right now? No, why would I? Do you keep proof of everything you believe right next to you ready at any given moment?

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>>2815536
I will pick both.

>>2815458
>No, at best they're blamed for being internationalist for everyone else and nationalist for themselves
Which simply isn't true, a gross generalisation. Plenty of Jews have always opposed Zionism and nationalism all of kinds. They realise their salvation lies in the negation of nationality, rather then embracing it, due to their historic discrimination and oppression.
>Except it's not meaningless, I literally gave examples right there. And btw, dogwhistles aren't a thing.
It's used to provoke fear of a moral decline and the clinging onto of social institutions for no reasons other than "tradition". Any social change is derided as degeneracy because some people simply cannot stomach the loss of privilege and power in entails for them, so they blame "subversive" elements like Jews to distract the population.
>Nope, almost nobody accuses them of that because most jews don't really care about religion.
Plenty do, hence all the fake Talmud quotes that circulate on /pol/, Stormfront and the like that supposedly show their plans for world domination. The stereotypical image of the Jew is always a scheming, bearded Rabbi, showing religious side of antisemitism, not to mention how medieval antisemitism was always religious in nature, where these stereotypes come from.
>The rest is the same stuff, you pretend like both currents are equally represented among jews which they're not.
Both may be over represented, but there's nothing wrong with that.
>pick an article on how white people are so bad and the likelihood of it being written by a jew is disproportionately high. Or about how gays are just fine and dandy and just-like-usTM
Perhaps Jews, due to their historic role as outsiders, see the flaws in society and have no qualms about pointing them out, since they know what it is like to be excluded from participation in society. Jewish emancipation only happened around 200 years ago, so it's natural that they feel an affinity with other marginalised groups.

>>2815415
Of course you do, even more if it's not chattle slavery.

>>2815545
Stalin didn't kill more Slavic people than Hitler.

>>2815450
>Of course, the existence of Jews only leads to more bloodshed.
ftfy

>ITT: ukranian nationalist kulaks from the OP comic

Who are the real triggered snowflakes here?

>>2815546
That's just retarded comperison

>>2815460
Not this goy.
I fully support the existence of Jewish Israel. Fuck Palestinians, they're not even real.

>>2815573
Right but somehow getting sent to work in a uranium mine counts as an "opportunity" under the Bolshevik regime.

>>2815560
Oh boy, the Jew who uses the smallest outliers to distract from the Zionist neo-con control of America's last 2 decades, the Zionist Russian oligarchs, the Jewish controlled US press and media. The list of crimes and gross abused goes on and on but CHECK THESE FEW HUNDRED JEWS AGAINST ZIONISM ON RELIGIOUS GROUNDS. While you can prove it isn't all Jews, you fail to disprove what the Jews definitely do.

>>2815560
>Plenty of Jews have always opposed Zionism and nationalism all of kinds
Which is what I said, I said that jews are on average more against nationalism than goys.
It's used to provoke fear of a moral decline
It's not "fear" of moral decline, moral decline is already here.
>for no reasons other than "tradition"
Just because you've never heard any argument on the matter doesn't mean there aren't any. I'm not surprised that a progressivist is completely ignorant about right wing viewpoint but at least show some decency.
>Both may be over represented, but there's nothing wrong with that.
They're not equally overrepresented, not even remotely.
>Perhaps Jews, due to their historic role as outsiders, see the flaws in society
They're not flaws, they're fundamental social institution.
>so it's natural that they feel an affinity with other marginalised groups
But they don't feel an affinity towards every marginalized group, only towards those that are close to progressive causes.

In fewer words, they're disproportionately more likely to be some kind of leftists/progressives so anyone with views contrary to those movements is perfectly right in not being welcoming to jewish influence or jews as a group. And no, saying "but there are historical reasons for..." doesn't solve anything, reality is still what it is.

This thread is just another proof that /pol/fags know nothing about history and want to derail every thread into their Jewish conspiracy fantasy.

>>2815596
Except that Jews who are atheists also oppose Zionism, and they number in the tens or possibly even hundreds of thousands. The Jewish Bund was a huge movement that rejected Zionism in favour of secular socialism in Eastern Europe.
And no, Zionists do not control America or Russia.

>>2815560
>It's used to provoke fear of a moral decline
What a delightfully ambiguous statement, it argues that moral decline is illusionary but also can be interpreted to mean that fearing moral decline is irrational.

This must the famed Jewish verbal intelligence I hear so much about!

>>2815585
>"sent" being that ignorant, thinking everyone was just "appointed" in USSR
by the way basement dweller, being the miner is very prestigious job, because of whole "danger" thing, which comes with early retirement, higher wages, and bulk of other social benefits

>>2815555

>Homes that were constructed for the sole purpose of selling them for profit should be given out for free

>Thus killing all market incentive to build new homes in the future

>>2815611
>neocons totally weren't in control of the american government for at least ten years guys

>>2815299
>entire thread has no citations
>lemme pick out one post at random and complain about that without contributing myself

>>2815620
>Oy vey mining is a very prestigious job, I can't believe how ungrateful you kulaks are for not appreciating the highly dangerous new career your children are being sent into!

>>2815612
>moral decline
Western World is actually more conservative now than in the 1970s and 1980s.

>>2815639
>>"sent" being that ignorant, thinking everyone was just "appointed" in USSR
Literally to degenerate to read

>>2815606
>Which is what I said, I said that jews are on average more against nationalism than goys.
Which is perfectly fine.
>It's used to provoke fear of a moral decline
>It's not "fear" of moral decline, moral decline is already here.
Of course you'd think that. One man's decline is another man's progress.
>Just because you've never heard any argument on the matter doesn't mean there aren't any. I'm not surprised that a progressivist is completely ignorant about right wing viewpoint but at least show some decency.
Right wing thought is inherently irrational, overly nostalgic and its theory is poor. It's been on the back foot ever since the Enlightenment because it cannot counter the arguments put forth.
>They're not equally overrepresented, not even remotely.
Why are you so concerned with perfectly equal overrepresentation?
>They're not flaws, they're fundamental social institution.
Not really. The family for example can take many forms, if it should even exist at all. Society can be reshaped and remade however people want it.
>But they don't feel an affinity towards every marginalized group, only towards those that are close to progressive causes.
Those two things are inherently tied up though. Hence why so many Jews opposed apartheid. It's not possible to overcome reactionary institutions with reactionary causes. You don't fight racism with racism, you fight it by undoing it completely.
>In fewer words, they're disproportionately more likely to be some kind of leftists/progressives so anyone with views contrary to those movements is perfectly right in not being welcoming to jewish influence or jews as a group. And no, saying "but there are historical reasons for..." doesn't solve anything, reality is still what it is.
Maybe, but the real question is why you'd hold views contrary to leftist/progressive viewpoints. Given the history of right wing viewpoints, it's generally an obsession with power and maintaining their place in the hierarchy.

>>2815642
>Western World is actually more conservative now than in the 1970s and 1980s.
ahahhahahahahah
Yeah totally, remember all the tranny and gay acceptance back in the 70s guys? Remember how much more hostile to religion we were? Remember how much more pro-immigrant and ethnically suicidal views we were?
Are you for real?

>>2815612
>What a delightfully ambiguous statement, it argues that moral decline is illusionary but also can be interpreted to mean that fearing moral decline is irrational.
Morals can certainly change. Whether you think that's a negative, and therefore a decline, depends entirely on your socioeconomic position, which morality is used to uphold and justify.
>This must the famed Jewish verbal intelligence I hear so much about!
You only hear that because you lurk on places like /pol/ which pumps your head full of irrational nonsense including antisemitism.

>>2815644
Who said anything about everyone?
You're attacking a strawman of your own creation, tankie.

>>2815647
>Right wing thought is inherently irrational, overly nostalgic and its theory is poor
>the real question is why you'd hold views contrary to leftist/progressive viewpoints.
>it's generally an obsession with power and maintaining their place in the hierarchy.

Am I supposed to take this seriously? It's only missing "DAE reality has le liberal bias". You literally couldn't show yourself to be a bigger zealot incapable of passing even the mildest of ideological turing tests

>>2815653
Higher crime rates, more people were addicted to drugs, young people had sex more often.

I don't think anything you mentioned is "degenerate".

>>2815647
>The family for example can take many forms, if it should even exist at all.
Talk like this is why pogroms happen.

>>2815678
Not really.

>>2815665
>I don't think anything you mentioned is "degenerate".
Of course not.
Even then, it doesn't change the fact that all the things I said are or used to be conservative talking points, so we are far more progressives than back then.
Also, lmao at young people having sex more often back then. Drugs are also still highly prevalent in society.

>>2815678
Good luck with that.

>>2815660
It wasn't /pol/ that made me an antisemite.

>>2815692
What did?

>>2815647
>Right wing thought is inherently irrational
Yeah, what really is rational is radical egalitarianism, despite 0 evidence existing in support of it. Either that or outdated economic theories from a minor post-ricardian german author.

>>2815661
Ok, lemme explain simply for simple, you wasn't just picked and appointed for job, you came to the office for the job you wanted and if had skills and education for this very job, you get hired like in the modern world you live today

>>2815689
Thanks, the world will need all the luck it can get to make it through this.

>>2814733

Germany wanted to get rid of the native Slavic population and replace it with Germans. Hitler planned to starve the Slavs, but probably they would have just been moved across the Urals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost

If you were a Slavic person, Hitler was your enemy weather or not you liked communism or not. The entire Nazi ideology was explicitly anti-Slavic, seeing lebensraum as a necessity

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>>2815705
The earliest human societies were egalitarian. For people who appeal to nature constantly, that always gets overlooked.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/freedom-learn/201105/how-hunter-gatherers-maintained-their-egalitarian-ways
Egalitarian countries, even today, are associated with higher happiness levels.
https://leftfootforward.org/2017/03/people-are-happier-in-more-equal-societies-heres-the-proof/
>outdated economic theories from a minor post-ricardian german author.
Plenty of economists have built on Marx's work, with recent Sraffian and TSSI theories resolving most claimed issues. If he was so minor, anti-communists wouldn't exist and spend so much of their time fearing a Marxist takeover.

>>2815706
>conservatives have a culture of opportunistic lying
>in a thread populated by tankies
The irony

>>2815686
>lmao
All statistics show that Millennials have sex less often than their parents. They are also less casual about sex than earlier generations.

ITT: Murderous Jews and their goy mind-slaves.

>>2815721
Stalin wasn't a Jew.

>>2815721
Butthurt kulak.

>>2815725
He's right, kulaks don't exist anymore, but jews do, unfortunately.

>>2815728
Good, Kulaks contributed nothing to the world, Jews have contributed immensely to philosophy, art, science, literature and music.

>>2815715
>The earliest human societies were egalitarian
When there's nothing that can tell people apart, everyone is equal, yes. Such great success, all that great philosophy and art and science produced by hunter gatherers.
>peaceful
lmao, still in denial about Chagnon's work.
>measuring happiness between countries
is there a single social science you guys can't fuck up?
>Plenty of economists have built on Marx's work
The overwhelming majority of economists aren't marxist and they think marxism is basically as economically valid as the austrian school of economics, that is, not at all.
>If he was so minor, anti-communists wouldn't exist and spend so much of their time fearing a Marxist takeover
Nobody fears a marxist takeover, all the rage nowadays is being scared about le ebil fascists populists. Also, something having political power has nothing to do with whether it has academic value within the field of economics. Lysenkoism managed to become state science in the USSR, was that representative of its value in the field of biology? No, of course not.

>>2815728
Do you even know what 'kulak' means?

>>2815740
>philosophy, art, science, literature and music
Maybe science.

>>2815743
Yes, a moderately wealthy peasant in an imperial Russia. Your point?

>>2815706
>pedophilia is produced by capitalism
This is your brain on communism.

>>2815751
Pedophilia is produced by judaism.

>>2815748
Are you suggesting that moderately wealthy farmers don't exist anymore in Russia or Ukraine?

>>2815698
Reexamining my own life experiences and realizing that the coincidences weren't actually coincidental, and no I don't mean "it's all teh Jews fault I live in the trailer".

I mean that it's not a coincidence that the pornographer my father did camera work for in the 80s was Jewish, or that I was taught about dreidels and menorahs in elementary school, or that my Jewish friend in high-school was a communist. Eventually you start to notice that the personal anecdotes of your life that you passed off as coincidences are actually part of much larger trends.

Truthfully though I still don't hate Jews. I just see them now for the perpetually insecure Machiavellian plotters they tend to be. I don't want to send all Jews to the camps, but I do understand now why it happens to them.

>>2815759
Actually, yeah. That's what I'm not just suggesting I'm outright saying that.

>>2815718
Yeah...
(((Statistics)))

>>2815718
>All statistics show that Millennials have sex less often than their parents
Dude where the hell do you live that one night stands are more difficult now than 40 years ago?

>>2815774
I'm not fond of kikes but he's right, except he forgot to mention it's WHITE millennials who aren't having sex, due to decades of propaganda brainwashing them into not reproducing and the porn industry / masturbation satisfying their immidiate sexual need.

>>2815762
>Ukraine’s gross agricultural output is generated by two main groups of producers – agricultural enterprises and households. The first group consists of 14,724 corporate agricultural enterprises cultivating on average 956 hectares of arable land and generating 46.5 percent of gross agricultural output. The second group consists of more than 4 million households cultivating on average 2.8 hectares of land each and generating nearly 45 percent of gross agricultural output. The remaining output is produced by roughly 40,000 farm enterprises having an average of 105 hectares of arable land each.

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>>2815742
>When there's nothing that can tell people apart, everyone is equal, yes.
Sounds good to me. Don't see why that's a bad thing.
>Such great success, all that great philosophy and art and science produced by hunter gatherers.
They didn't have the technology for it. But today? Different matter.
>lmao, still in denial about Chagnon's work.
No more than you are about Sahlins or Engels.
>is there a single social science you guys can't fuck up?
It's perfectly valid. Gross National Happiness is a good metric, but of course, someone like you couldn't countenance placing human need over private profit.
>The overwhelming majority of economists aren't marxist and they think marxism is basically as economically valid as the austrian school of economics, that is, not at all.
Of course they wouldn't be. We live under capitalism and the triumph of liberalism has been a setback for Marxian economics. It is certainly more valid than Austrian economics though, and is repeatedly accurate in predicting capitalist crises.
>Nobody fears a marxist takeover
Haha, I'll remember that the next time I hear someone crying about "cultural Marxism", another nonsense conspiracy theory.
>Also, something having political power has nothing to do with whether it has academic value within the field of economics. Lysenkoism managed to become state science in the USSR, was that representative of its value in the field of biology?
Funny how you appeal to authority to diminish Marxian economics, then bring up Lysenkoism. Biology and economics are different matters.

>>2815785
>people growing potatoes in their vegetable gardens are "moderately wealthy"

>>2815785
you're proving his point, dude.

>>2815776
It's more like they aren't interested in one night stands.

>>2815776
Only a very tiny minority of people are doing one night stands, stop believing the media telling you that everyone fucks around like a whore or that it's normal.

>>2815780
I don't buy that cuck narrative either, I don't buy anything that comes out of the social sciences in the 21st century, the only purpose of statistics in this day and age is social engineering.

>>2815760
>Eventually you start to notice that the personal anecdotes of your life that you passed off as coincidences are actually part of much larger trends
Not really. Anecdotes are just that; anecdotes. I'm sorry you had such a seedy upbringing, but I really don't see why learning about dreidels and menorahs is evidence of anything, I learnt about all religions in school, and I believe all should to foster a better understanding of the world and its groups. As for your Jewish friend being a communist, again, that's irrelevant at such an age, but if we are to explain it rationally, it's because historically communists are one of the few groups willing to combat antisemitism against murderous pogromists and offer Jews a chance to put religious antagonisms behind them, as every other group is able to.

Even if these trends were real, how you respond to them depends entirely on the level of hostility towards Jews you yourself find acceptable, as well as socially ingrained antisemitism.

>>2815805
White people today aren't having children, white peopel in the past had shitloads of children. You think everyone is just secretly fucking with loads of birth control? Because that simply isn't true.

>>2815820
>White people today aren't having children
They are though. Birth rates have been falling for nearly 200 years, and the same pattern is repeated across the world. Even in Africa fertility is falling due to access to healthcare, education, literacy, contraception, economic growth etc.

>>2815789
>Sounds good to me. Don't see why that's a bad thing
Because you don't get the other things I literally talked about in the next sentence. The moment there is possibility for demonstrating artistic, athletic, intellectual (be it scientific,philosophical or other) capability, you immediately get differences between individuals, severe differences. Equality is only possible where you can't do anything aside from survive, inequality due to innate abilities and chance happens the moment you allow for the cultivation of any human endeavor.
>No more than you are about Sahlins or Engels
That's not how logic works. If you say "All x are y" and I find examples of some X not being Y, I've refuted the claim, that's it.
>It's perfectly valid
Nah. It makes countries with the highest use of antidepressants be at the top of the list.
>human need over private profit.
wat
>Of course they wouldn't be. We live under capitalism and the triumph of liberalism has been a setback for Marxian economics
No, the shit produced by marxian economists compared to neoclassical economists is what is behind the setback, stop resorting to crazy conspiracy theories.
>Funny how you appeal to authority to diminish Marxian economics, then bring up Lysenkoism
The only funny thing there is you not being able to understand what I said. That was an example of how something can take over without being backed by any solid scientific evidence.

>>2815794
>>2815800
>Only a very tiny minority of people are doing one night stands
Stop hanging out with nerds, anons

>>2815611
Oh yeah, except Norman Finkelstein (who I know you're referencing) doesn't oppose the state of Israel, he merely opposes Israel's most blatant abuses of the Palestinians. He never ever proposes a Jewish exodus (ha) from Israel.

>>2815827
>They are though
>Birth rates have been falling
Pick one.

>>2815835
Stop hanging around club sluts.

>>2815841
Anon, it's not a tiny minority. Might be a minority, like 35%, but it's not tiny. Maybe losers are bringing the numbers down, I don't know, nothing moral about wanting to do something immoral but failing at doing it.

>>2815844
Nice asspull numbers.

>>2815849
I haven't seen anyone else giving numbers either.

>>2815852
You are claiming that tons of people are having one night stands so you prove it.

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>>2815829
>Because you don't get the other things I literally talked about in the next sentence. The moment there is possibility for demonstrating artistic, athletic, intellectual (be it scientific,philosophical or other) capability, you immediately get differences between individuals, severe differences. Equality is only possible where you can't do anything aside from survive, inequality due to innate abilities and chance happens the moment you allow for the cultivation of any human endeavor.
Differences between individuals do not justify hierarchy, unearned privilege, inheritance or oppression as we see today. Without a level of equality to look upon one another as equals, we descend into barbarism and war.
>That's not how logic works. If you say "All x are y" and I find examples of some X not being Y, I've refuted the claim, that's it.
The question of violence in early societies is not some logical battle.
>Nah. It makes countries with the highest use of antidepressants be at the top of the list.
Antidepressants are a reflection of the social isolation and cutthroat nature of modern life. People have always been depressed, but now it can be treated, thankfully.
>wat
Fulfilling human needs comes before profit, sorry. people like you failing to get this is why we're on course for massive environmental destruction.
>No, the shit produced by marxian economists compared to neoclassical economists is what is behind the setback, stop resorting to crazy conspiracy theories.
It's no conspiracy. Liberalism has been triumphalist, e.g. people like Fukuyama. They believe there is no alternative, and people like you eat it up, seeing any suggestion of deviation from liberalism as shit.
>The only funny thing there is you not being able to understand what I said. That was an example of how something can take over without being backed by any solid scientific evidence.
Which applies to neoclassical economics as well as Lysenkoism.

>>2814802
Thank you for contributing to the discussion

>>2815838
I wasn't referencing Finkelstein. I admire him though, for his brutal honesty and lack of double standards.
Anyway, Jews should be able to live in the region, of course, but the existence of the state? No.

>>2815839
Birth rates falling doesn't mean birth rates are zero. There are still hundreds of millions of white people in the world, enough with the drastic hyperbole. If you're so anxious about "whites", however you define them, going extinct, go have a giant family. Your fear of decline is a reflection of how whites currently occupy the top of the totem pole, and you fear a reversal and your subjugation.

>>2815814
My upbringing wasn't seedy, as I said before my point isn't "woe is me I am the victim of the Jews", it's just I've realized the stereotypes exist for a reason and when they are taken into account the world makes much more sense.

For instance, I'll never forget the sensible chuckle I had when I realized why there have always been so many Jews (and to a lesser extent Asians) involved in photography.
www.pneac.org/Sheets/all/silver.cfm

They literally can't help themselves.

>>2815880
>stereotypes exist for a reason
A self fulfilling prophecy, more than anything. The human brain loves creating patterns to simplify the world.

>>2815820
Loads of birth control and loads of abortions.

>>2815860
>Differences between individuals do not justify hierarchy
Of course they do lol, that's what hierarchy is, the moment it's shown that I'm better than you at X, a hierarchy has been created with me above you.
>unearned privilege, inheritance or oppression as we see today
I'm not even going to ask you to explain this because it's going to be inane drivel like all the rest.
>The question of violence in early societies is not some logical battle
...do I need to spell this out to you? If you claim they're all peaceful and I show you some that are clearly not, in fact they're extremely violent, I've debunked your claim, that's it.
>People have always been depressed, but now it can be treated
Rates of depression have been going up and those countries show higher rates. How the hell can they be happy, only the neoliberals behind happiness survey may ever know.
>Fulfilling human needs comes before profit
This is a meaningless statement without any definition
>e.g. people like Fukuyama
Who nobody in the field takes seriously? How is that helping your case?
>They believe there is no alternative
I'm talking about economists, anon, I'm not talking about voters. Marx is a bad joke in academia when it comes to economics, and your only explanations are basically the same pol gives when talking about how somehow every historian is wrong about the holocaust.
>Which applies to neoclassical economics as well as Lysenkoism.
>I know more than every economist g-guys! This images I post on taiwanese boards prove so!
literally holocaust denial-tier

>>2815885
>A self fulfilling prophecy, more than anything.
No.
psychologytoday.com/blog/rabble-rouser/201210/stereotype-inaccuracy

>>2815860
remove bakunin's name from that quote and he'd be denounced as a fascist by contemporary progressives for saying that there are differences in capacities and powers between populations and the sexes.

>>2815896
>that's what hierarchy is, the moment it's shown that I'm better than you at X, a hierarchy has been created with me above you.
Not really. In feudal times hierarchy was ordained according to God and his divine right. In slave societies leaders claimed themselves as literal incarnations of Gods. Today it's according to property. A change, but not an infallible one. All hierarchies are sustained by violence and social rigidity, not ability.
>I'm not even going to ask you to explain this because it's going to be inane drivel like all the rest.
Or maybe it's because you know you benefit from injustice and wish to cling onto it.
>...do I need to spell this out to you? If you claim they're all peaceful and I show you some that are clearly not, in fact they're extremely violent, I've debunked your claim, that's it.
I didn't claim they were all peaceful. It was originally about the egalitarian social structure, which you haven't "debunked". You wish to present violence as an eternal force which justifies social relations.
>Rates of depression have been going up and those countries show higher rates.
Indeed, which hardly reflects well on capitalist society.
>This is a meaningless statement without any definition
Not really, it's a cornerstone of socialism. It's the only way to end alienation. What do you find so hard to comprehend about placing human needs before making money from human beings?
>Who nobody in the field takes seriously? How is that helping your case?
He embodies a common attitude in the field and his ideas are certainly still very well known and influential
>I'm talking about economists, anon, I'm not talking about voters. Marx is a bad joke in academia when it comes to economics
Marx is still very relevant. There has been a great resurgence in his work since 2008. People like Wolff, Shaikh, Harvey, Sekine and Piore have put out great work in recent years
>literally holocaust denial-tier
And here we see your liberalism shine through

>>2815933
Then they hardly understand progressive thought. Even back before Bakunin, during the French Revolution, the goal of equality didn't mean enforcing identical norms on everyone, but doing away with unjust structures and tyranny, and ensuring equality before the law, with everyone judged by their merits, not conditions of birth.

>>2815118
Thanks.

>>2814689
Nope.

t. Russkie

>>2815486
Why would he do that when the German Reich was going to collapse anyway? The Anglo-Americans would have invaded and crushed Germany regardless of what happened in eastern europe.

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>>2815486
>Not knowing the Holodomor is an internationally recognized genocide.

Reddit is this way you stupid tankie >>>>>>

>>2815449
Sure, opportunities to starve in a city rather than starve in a collective farm

>>2815627
>market incentive
Swine will never understand

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>>2816581
I looked it up, most countries don't recognize it as an intentional genocide.

>>2816724
Still an internationally recognized genocide

A lot of nations don't recognize the Armenian genocide. Doesn't mean it didn't happen or wasn't a genocide

>>2814689
It's not even remotely true.

>>2814689
This is absurd idiocy. Fuck, it's positively insulting to the victims of Stalinism.

>>2816724

I'm disappointed that the US isn't on that list. Why is Trump denying Holodomor? Is this proof he works for Russia?

>>2816724
this is pretty much a map of butthurt anti russian countries and ukrainian expats

>>2814689
>Is this pic true?

Fuck no. EVERY SINGLE PERSON who executed the famine was Jewish. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE.

This meme is pathetic, there is a reason all the people charged with the Genocide of Ukrainians were jewish.

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>>2817568
OY VEY DELETE THIS DON'T MENTION

(((Kaganovich)))

>>2817580
>16.5 million
Just lol

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>>2817580
>Jewish Lenin

>>2814706
this

>>2817963
Only 1/4 Jewish, idk why it matters when his equal, Trotsky, was Jewish.

>>2814717
Do you even know a thing or two about the fucking board you're on. Stalin was an incompetent fuck who was completely unprepared for Barbarossa and botched the invasion of Finland. Not to mention the fucking idiot killed surrounded himself with sycophants and purged all the officers/intellectuals/anyone with half a brain.

>>2814698
Of course they aren't just going to lie down and let themselves and everything they own be culturally enriched for the sole reason that they were successful enough to own a small farm. /leftypol/ is fucking absurd holy shit.

>>2815449
Truly fucking delusional. More like work a shit job for absolutely nothing, wait in a bread line for hours and hope your neighbor doesn't report you to the secret police. All after he fucks your wife of course.

>>2815555
I wonder what it's like to operate at such a low level of thought.

/leftypol/ and /pol/ are a mistake.

>>2818888
>that they were successful enough
*exploitative
>culturally enriched
nice /pol/ buzzwords

>>2817021

> Mexico
> Portugal
> Ecuador

Which category do these countries fall in?

So this board is basically /pol/ now?

>>2819057

Only if you let them.

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>another thread with 20 year old burgers shilling for communism

>>2814689
>"some shortage"
>some
hahahahahahahhaha

>>2815555
This is precisely what doesn't happen in a free market, where the prices are optimised to a point where supply meets demand.

>>2819057
No, this is leftypol territory, comrade.

>>2815433
underrated post

>tfw to smart for capitalism or communism aka the Semetic tools of tyranny.

>>2815627
kys capitalist pig

>measuring happiness between countries
>is there a single social science you guys can't fuck up?

Do you honestly think the average citizen of a country like Norway or Sweden doesn't lead a better life than the average American?
Do you not believe economic equality is a good way to keep a society peaceful and happy?

>>2815829
>>2815860
>Nah. It makes countries with the highest use of antidepressants be at the top of the list.

Stop responding to his strawmen.
The US where I suspect he is drawing his inspiration for his rabid capitalist apologetism from, have astronomical numbers for the use of anti-depressants, yet can't touch other developed countries on the happiness index.

He just doesn't want to acknowledge that economic inequality makes for a shitty and depressed population.

>>2815011

>People actually believe this

>>2815433
>If Jews integrate they're accused of trying to take over, if they stay separate, they're accused of regarding themselves as superior and clannishness. Jews are a scapegoat for everything, used by people to mask true social issues by blaming the "Other".

this tbqhfam

>>2815442
we got the "le evul zion ruling from israel" myth going on in middle east. kek.

>>2815301

Not that guy but congrats on ignoring the rest of what he said you shitbird

>>2815478

Better system then what you are purposing