PROPAGANDA

>>2811518
I think you're completely wrong and you underrate how gullible people can be and how easy it is to control them by misinformtion and propaganda

also the access to infinite information and high literacy rates has contributed to nothing in this matter

>>2811518
#woke
#outofthematrix
#hackerlife

Propaganda isn't some spoopy mechanism designed to control people's minds. It's just basically advertising or public relations.

>>2811723
It is though.
It's twisting the truth to control the opinions of other human beings.

It's not the same as advertising a product, but it's similar to public relations.

>>2811665
I suppose you might be right, but I need to see it before I believe it.

Every time I see something incredibly dumb on Facebook there's always someone that brands it fake.

"RUSSIAN PEDOPHILE BEATEN TO DEATH FOR MOLESTING CHILD" is obviously fake news, but I've seen it toted as reality by gullible people.

I just don't believe the average person is that way though. 1 in 5 humans see the reality behind headlines, and that ratio should be good enough to stop the spread of fake news in reality.

>>2811898
Wow, I hate when I use the same word 3 times in a row.

>>2811898
>I suppose you might be right, but I need to see it before I believe it.
I guess this is just a case of personal experience, in my case I live in a place where everybody eats their daily dose of fake news and propaganda while not even considering it to be fake and when they are confronted by proofs of that being false will basically deny it and tell you they don't believe your proofs because it doesn't correspond with what the media they consider to tell the truth is saying

>>2811898
>It's twisting the truth to control the opinions of other human beings.

It's just hype, my nigger.
People are allowed to get hyped. People can love their own countries.

>once it becomes excruciatingly obvious it fails as a piece of propaganda

only by the fallacious definition of propaganda as exclusively subliminal
there is exactly nothing wrong with propaganda.
you want to talk about restriction of dissent? enforced cult of personality? that's another topic.

>>2811929
>fake news and propaganda

these are not mutually binding terms

Of course it looks. American schools teach that we dindu nuffin to all those "violent", "rebellious" unionists, strikers, and anarchists.

And it works.

>>2812027
>There's nothing wrong with spreading lies to further an agenda that people don't really support, and it's likely detrimental to their own welfare

I disagree

>>2812174
That implies propaganda is exclusively lies.

>>2811898
>truth
>not subjective as fuck

there are no truths out there

only reports

dumb neckbeards on a cartoon board are still believing obviously false nazi propaganda 70 years later

You'd think people would be smarter. Truth be told some of the things we accept as fact are probably propaganda.

>>2811518
Do you really think you're living in a time where it's questionable if propaganda works or not?

>>2812224

I was about to come to this thread just to say this.

>>2812197
That's a good point, and you're correct, but I count half-truths and one-sided attacks on another party for the sake of warping opinions as a lie.

To me, propaganda is an inherently negative thing.

I don't count it as such if it's not biased or misleading.

>>2812217
There may be no truth, but there's certainly bullshit.

>>2811518
Propaganda from foreign nations may seem bizzare and stupid to you but the same thing happens in America. If you repeat things enough times the people will start to believe it. Most people are not free thinkers and just go with the crowd. They don't question anything and are happy to live and die however their government permits them. They are brainwashed through media and comedy to live, buy and vote a certain way.

>>2811898
>It's twisting the truth to control the opinions of other human beings.

When most leaders use it they don't see it that way though. They just see it as getting their point or idea across.

>>2812293
OP here

There is likely credibility to this.
I remember not being much of a free thinker when I was 13-14 years old. I was easily influenced by people on the internet that spoke of certain ideas, etc. If something made me feel a certain way, I believed it to be the truth.

It's easy to see how people could stay that way.

Glad I'm subscribed to info-wars.

>>2812041
What kind of school did you go to? Mine was pretty honest about monopolies and the pinkertons.

>>2812298
They do so in an under-handed way.

People should be well informed before they decide to listen to their leader. I'm a firm believer that power stems from people. They shouldn't be treated like cattle.

There's advertisement, and then there's propaganda. There are better ways to get a point across that don't involve extreme bias.

>>2812301
>glad I'm subscribed to InfoWars
That's a joke right? I hope so you seem like a pretty reasonable person.

>>2812330
Yeah, it's a joke.

>>2812317
There's not a better way to get your point across, which is why they use propaganda. There's definitely more ethical ways to get your point across.
>inb4 Ethics are a spook

>>2811518
Talk to the people on this board who unironically believe holocaust denial and "muh degeneracy" memes to see it in action.

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>>2811898
>1 in 5 humans see the reality behind headlines, and that ratio should be good enough to stop the spread of fake news in reality.
>1 in 5 humans
> that ratio should be good enough to stop the spread of fake news in reality.

What?
Why not everybody? Why don't we educate everybody to be able to see "reality behind the headlines"?

When children/adults are taught that specific media services (CNN MSNBC ect.) are legit sources of info, and the people running said services have close ties with the Government, and vested (monetary) interest in a political party of course there's going to be a specific agenda pushed, or purposeful spreading of ignorance/dis-info.

However, In a time where information is infinite with a good internet connection, ignorance is simply a chosen state for most people. It's an odd duality that has never been seen in history before.

>>2812353
The root problem is a culture of ignorance.

you cant escape the ideology of propaganda by accepting another ideology.

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>>2811518
Grown up in China.

If you mean by changing how people think or believe, then no, propaganda and brainwashing doesn't work...Except on college age retard who think they know everything.

If you mean changing people's behavior, then yes. People will simply be too scared and too forced by peer pressure to do against the narrative, especially when your life is on the line.

People are not stupid, they know they've been feed bullshit, but they are simply scared. They know how the game is played, the simply play the game.

>>2811723
Edward Bernays, check this guy out.
and yes, it is

>>2812389
>Forced by peer pressure

I believe on some level that means that it works.

There will be a high enough ratio of the populace that buy into it if it's covert enough.

All of the sensible people that shake their heads will be scared and will be silenced by half the country.

>>2812363
That's what I said.... a culture of ignorance has been purposefully created to make people easier to control, and make people believe information from specific sources with less questioning.

>>2811518
If propaganda DIDN'T work, ISIS would be a footnote in history by now.

>>2811518
How do politicians get people to swing to their side during elections? Am I just a close minded retard?

>>2811518
>I feel like once it becomes excruciatingly obvious it fails as a piece of propaganda.
America out and out just claims it's number one despite not actually being statistically number one at almost any non-recreational thing, chanting U-S-A started out as satire yet has been unironically embraced, movies are consistently pumped out by Hollywood depicting the world outside the US boarders as decrepit and underdeveloped despite a wealth of metropolises existing in even the sandiest of shitholes, and the insane flag-branding doesn't even get as much as a second glance. Soldiers are automatically elevated to near unimpeachable status the moment they are recruited and to question the military is literally offensive to every mainstream political orientation

You say propaganda requires subtlety but the citizens of the united states fucking swim in it, eat, breath and shit it day in and day out and it's never been more effective. Even this list of undeniable facts would look like seditious ramblings to an American as a result.

>>2811518
Ofc propagana works, even when overt. Just look at how many fell for the holohoax meme and how utterly buttblasted they get when you dare to question that perhaps those 6 gorillion kikes were a horrendous exaggeration.

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It works.

Most Americans still believe that circumcision is done for hygiene.

>>2815039

even normies realize its bullshit now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCSWbTv3hng

>>2813063
I've met the people that actually chant USA, and they seem to support a strange brand of nationalism.

It's not propaganda that makes them chant what they chant. It's life itself.

They have nothing they can take pride in, so they land on their country.

>>2811518

>Does propaganda really work?

Yes. Definitely. No question. As others have pointed out, propaganda is basically no different than advertising, except that advertising is done by businesses to help sell products and services, whereas propaganda is used by governments to "sell" (generate public acceptance for) government policies.

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>>2812293
>propaganda from foreign nations may seem bizarre and stupid to you but the same thing happens in America
I'd like to elaborate on this. A lot of the classic/stereotypical depictions of propaganda seems unbelievable because it depicts national values that differ from our own (as well as the fact that they come pre-branded as propaganda). For a more relatable example, I'd take a look at the artwork produced by FDR's New Deal programs (assuming you're American).

>>2811518
Propaganda is effective because humans are overwhelmed by available information, not just by the sheer quantity of it but also by its implications and consequences. We like easy truths and we like to think we're doing the right thing.

- The initial source of information has a huge advantage, both because it gets to define whatever it's introducing you to and because people are too lazy, they won't look up other sources for comparison or do their own research
- propaganda can also affect how you feel about things, it doesn't have to be limited to simply controlling information. Something like "I know it's bad for me, but" or "They deserved it"
- sometimes it's as simple as punishing people if they don't conform to whatever perception of reality is being forced on them, the mental burden of being excluded, harassed and so on will be too much for the average person for them to maintain their resistance

Everyone knows what advertising companies do. Everyone pretends they are not affected.

But even the most shameless advertisement can make you purchase a can of Coke.

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>>2811518
>Does Propaganda really work?

Yes, you can see it on this board. People deny the Holocaust, Holodomor. Some people think Unions have never done anything good ever. People think the "stab in the back" myth is real despite all the evidence otherwise.

In sum, people are fucking stupid and gullible.

>>2811518
You are right, the misinformation was the real propaganda. Though a minority of zealots probably believed the ridiculous visions of utopia I am pretty sure both the officials and the majority of people saw through it.

In China they would say "the show is for the men behind the curtain". It was basically to prove that they could do it, that they could gather everyone around and make them watch these silly things and prove amonst themselves that they are tugging the party line.

>>2811518
When it comes to serious shit like an abusive government, people actually want to believe the best about it to feel more at peace with it. That's why the more dictatorial a country has been in the past, the more susceptible the people are, since they have a history of needing to rely on lies. If your PR is good enough to sell the belief that their country isn't totally fucked, the hip new ideology will solve all our problems, or that le scary boogeyman is the source of all of them, they will buy it. It's also why more democratic countries will laugh at propaganda, even if more benign or subtle advertisements treats people just as gullible.

tl;dr propaganda works when it's telling you to believe what you WANT to believe

>>2811518
It works on stupid people who are the majority. The smart people don't believe it but they are terrorised / murdered by the smart people thar run the regime.

>>2815156
Religions been ruined,Patriotism is the new opium that makes life bearable

>>2815400
People want to believe in negative things. They will invent problems like "genetic modification is bad" as an excuse to get mad at something.

No one wanted to believe they lived in a utopia.

>>2815219
>>2813063

I know it's a sort of Mockumentary (it was made in New Zealand as a fake North Korean film meant to show how our media could be interpreted), but this film is actually pretty good for sort of "turning the tables" and making you question just how much of a "brainwashing" effect our own media could have:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tLK449NdmA

>>2815521
People don't make that up because they want to believe in negative things, they do it because new things are scary. People like what is familiar.

>>2811518
>but I don't believe that

Unfortunately reality doesn't comport to your beliefs. People have an intuitionist psychology at root, not a rationalist one like you seem to presume.

Your naive projections are endearing however, and for that I would patronizingly give you a good pat on the head while saying "Good Boy!".

>>2815581
Is your first name Tommy by any chance?