Battle of Berlin

>>2803604
He thought the german people had betrayed him by being so weak and so deserved to suffer

>>2803604
Germans failed him, they deserve the destruction.

>>2803604
Autism

>>2803604
>German troops consist of under-equipped Hitler Youth, Recruits, weakened SS battalions, and militias
WW2 Western European front in a nutshell

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>Soviet troops consist of under-equipped reservists, recruits, weakened NKVD battalions, and workers' militia
>somewhat outnumbered, hundreds of thousands of German troops equipped and fed ready to kill
>food supply running out
>thousands of Russians dying
>infrastructure destroyed
>Stalin gets butthurt when generals and high ranking officers tell him that he should flee from Moscow
What was his problem?

>>2803636
Stalin wasn't a bitch and knew that to run would seriously hurt morale.

>>2803604

A guy literally under the influence of methamphetamine sees his life's ambitions crumble as his mortal enemy stands at his very gates. This guy will not act rationally.

>>2803636
He knew that the Moscow would not be taken. The Germans already suffered from severe conditions, had their lines stretched too thin and both Stavka and Stalin were familiar with this.

Besides Stalin had an entire Siberia behind him even if the Moscow somehow fell. Also not to mention that fresh eastern divisions were on their way to battlefield.

>>2803604

He was hoping for a new "Miracle of the House of Brandenburg"

If only Steiner had attacked...

>>2803636
Because he's just Stalin the Germans out until the Eastern division arrived.

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>>2803716

Just imagine if someone rational had taken over even a few weeks earlier. Maybe they could have avoided Soviet occupation entirely in a negotiated surrender to Britain and U.S.

>surrendering to the soviets
If it was the western allies sure.
Surrendering to the soviets would have meant dying of rape and torture instead of bullets and artillery fire.

To quote Marshall Edward Rydz-Śmigły: "With the Germans we run the risk of losing our liberty. With the Russians we will lose our soul".
Replace Germans with western allies in this case.

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If they stand for Germany... They die for Germany.

In the mind of the german soldier he wasn't fighting Russia, he was fighting international jewry, bolsjevism and the destruction of all moral, value and tradition.

You must understand this distinction to understand why Germany fought to the bitter end and why individual soldiers fought for the very stairs of the Reichstag. It was a war of civilizations, not nations.

>>2803604
He was an incompetent retard who mentally equated military retreat with "dishonor". There isn't much more to it than that.

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>>2803804
>You must understand this distinction to understand why Germany fought to the bitter end
The Shit they did in the Rudina would not go unpunished. They knew this. They All knew this.
They fought not because of some Jewish conspiracy, They fought to the bitter end because they knew we were going to do the same what they had done to us.

T.Grandson of a Belarusian Partisan

>>2803825

Many of the guys making their last stand in and around Berlin had never set foot in eastern europe.

You are looking at this far too simplisticly.

>>2803825
>>2803804
>>2803840

In this video you have german veterans speaking of this exact thing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQdDnbXXn20

Consider that Germany itself had been victim of an attempted bolsjevist coup in the 1920s as well

>>2803804
Do you truly buy this crap? Hitler wrote about living space, he talked about wanting living space. He wanted Eastern Europe to be populated by Germanic people, not Slavic. Da Joos and Marxism was just cherry on top. No German high officer even denied this.

>>2803855

Im not talking about Hitler, his ideals and his plans.

Im talking about the german soldier, the german society and the wehrmacht as a collective.

Fritz, 21 years old from Dresden didnt give a fuck about ukrainian barley-fields or the fish in the lakes of Leningrad. He was motivated by the civilizational clash between bolsjevism (which attempted a serious coup-attempt in germany in early 1920s) the culture and value he held dear.

How many american soldiers motivated their deployment to Iraq in line with neocon ideology and think tank-presentations about a "New american century"? No one!

They did it with 9/11, war on terror, islamic culture vs christian culture etcetc.

The average german was many times less informed about realpolitikal theory than the average american deployed to Iraq

>>2803893
They your theory is even more idiotic, anon.

Communism in Soviet Union was just another form of Russian imperialism. We Russians ruled through Marxist-Leninist ideology, which was fitted to our needs and purposes. That is what you people still do not get. Look at aesthetics of Bolshevism in Russia, it was masculine, full of vigor and power. Communist Jews? Those communist Jews were killing and torturing religious Jews for shits and giggles.

You know that Lenin has Final Solution idea for Jews as well?

Jews in Soviet Union were to be absorbed into Soviet identity (hint, Russian identity), Judaism as religion according to him could not be tolerated to exist.

>>2803655
There's a new book by Norman Ohler called 'Blitzed' that lays out what was likely Hitler's regimen of drugs, and it's fucking crazy. The guy was essentially taking daily speedballs. During the siege of Berlin, his doctor was sending soldiers into bombed out pharmacies to scrounge up anything they could find. Even moderate withdrawal from psychostimulants can throw a person into a delusional state.

>>2803928

It was an absolutely soul crushing collectivism which if rooted in western europe would have killed everything that made western europe unique to begin with.

Without the german sacrifices both in the 1920s as well as 30s and 40s we very well could have lived in a time line where the soviet union stretched to the english channel, likely causing irreparable damage to the culture and societies it infested.

Eastern europe (and Russia) have just recently started to come back from the weight of the marxist-leninist ideology, almost 30years after it collapsed. That alone speaks volumes about the destructive nature of it.

>>2803956
>Without the german sacrifices both in the 1920s as well as 30s and 40s
If they had never Started their Retarded war. Communism would have never spread as far as it did.

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>>2803956
Triggered fashie?

>>2803825
>They fought to the bitter end because they knew we were going to do the same what they had done to us.
I wish they had. Every German fascist, collaborator and soldier should've been sterilised, enslaved or shot.

>>2803956
>>>/pol/

>>2803956
You know nothing about history. Stop glorifying Hitler and his murderous regime.

>>2803956
REEEEEEEEEEEEEE

These German fucks only gave land and legitimacy to the Soviets, they didn't slowed them down. It was Hitler retardation that drove Bolsheviks beyond Berlin.

>>2803960

It most definitely would. War between Germany and Soviet union was inevitable at that point, it had been brewing for over 20years. The leadership in both Soviet union and Germany knew this and thats why Germany decided to the the best it could with the hand it held, which was an early surprise attack.

You can not view history as something that started a specific date. Bolshevism and communism made several serious and real attempts at revolution in Germany after WW1. It was an ideological and civilizational struggle that started more than a decade before 1939 and encompasse all of europe (and in effect the world).

>>2803804
>You must understand this distinction to understand why Germany fought to the bitter end and why individual soldiers fought for the very stairs of the Reichstag. It was a war of civilizations, not nations.

Germans fought to the end because their units were often based around communities and incredibly cohesive. If you gave up you were betraying your mates, home and family.

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>>2804004
>It was an ideological and civilizational struggle that started more than a decade before 1939 and encompasse all of europe (and in effect the world).

What are you doing on a history board?

>>2803840
>serious informed discussion
>on 4chan
>on &HUMANITIES
This is the price paid for no moderation or thought police, that the stupid opinions are repeated loudly and more commonly than correct ones.

>>2803956

You were replying to my post.

You are wrong. There was no more soul crushing collectivism in Soviet Union compared to your Nazi Empire.

Why cant you just admit that you wanted Slavic land to resettle with Germanic people? Your entire leadership wrote about such a thing, in their diaries, letters.

Your whole "We were a shield against Jewish Bolshevism!" delusion is simply that, delusion.

Your people, Germanic fought against mine, Slavic. End of story.

>>2804029
Hiroshimoot kind of dropped the ball tbaytch

>>2804004
>War between Germany and Soviet union was inevitable at that point, it had been brewing for over 20years
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Rapallo_(1922)

>>2803928
>We Russians ruled through Marxist-Leninist ideology
Not the guy you're talking to but the average Russian did not "rule" but he lived in utter poverty and misery due to Communism. Russia still is a complete shithole because of it and has yet to recover fully from decades of bad economy.

>>2804096
Your average Russian lived in poverty even before the Communism.

>>2804104

Yes, but a small segment of Russians were starting to finally break the cycle of poverty and form the beginnings of a middle-class. These people were called "Kulaks." They all died for the unforgivable sin of escaping from perpetual poverty.

>>2804210
Shouldn't have been kulaks under stalin

>>2803604
pic is vienna tho

>>2804245
Why vienna wasn't in the soviet sphere?
What a waste, retreating from austria and manchuria was a big soviet mistake.

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>>2803804
This is what Judeohitlerites actualy bealive

>>2804347
Because Stalin was a good guy.

>>2803629
b-but muh elite SS eastern front veterans

>>2804409
Russians are too kind for their own good, they make progresses at cost of huge losses and then they throw it away for next to nothing.
wtf

>>2804450
Taking Viena had influence on Prague offensive that was extremely successful.

>>2803629
[citation needed]

>>2804464
I mean the giving away conquered territory thing, why they do that.

>>2804395
i can't find ant sources to this. Mind sharing some?

>>2803604
Hitler's problem was that a German surrender would bring eternal shame to the nation, so he ordered a scorched earth policy to dismantle all infrastructure and anything else of value and go down in a blaze of glory, an order which Albert Speer and other inner circle officials disobeyed.

As for why German soldiers themselves kept fighting to the very end, it was mostly out of fear of what would happen to them if they surrendered to the Soviets, as well as fear of disobeying their superiors. It's hard to comprehend now the amount of sheer rage the Russians felt towards the Germans for everything that was done during Barbarossa and beyond, and the German soldiers could only imagine what would happen to them in Soviet hands, so most bought into the idea that it's better to die fighting them rather than meet a face worse than death if they surrendered.

>>2804484
He was in contact with a jew in ww1

>>2804466
The German garrisons during the normandy landings and up till the liberation of Paris were quality enough, but it's common knowledge that Germany had to scrape the bottom of the barrel for troops in order to launch the Ardennes Offensive.

>>2804543
that's because there weren't any to spare cause the allies and soviets were making gains on all fronts

>>2804543
And the troops that did the Lake Balaton offensive were any less of bottom barrel scrapings? It wasn't an East vs west split. As the war entered its final stages, the Germans were pretty much out of decent troops.

Also, the German garrisons that fought at D-Day themselves were generally not very good troops., most of the Atlantic wall was staffed with less well trained and armed formations; it's really only the later stages of the campaign, when it gets more mobile, that you see the entrance of more elite formations entering the fray. It doesn't take your best troops to sit in a bunker and shoot at anyone who tries to land in front of you.

>>2804521
That's too vague, can you elaborate on this? I mean, i tried finding some info on the religious background on the people in the picture, but i didn't find any proof to back the pic up. Would be nice if the pic came with the sources.

>>2803960
>>2803956
>>Without the german sacrifices both in the 1920s as well as 30s and 40s
You mean that German sacrifices in 1920 when they refuse to transport weapon to Poland fighting bolsheviks? Or when they resupply and return home bolsheviks troops who run to Prussia after battle of Warsaw?
Truly glorious opposition.
Or you mean German-Soviet cooperation in military and economy that span from 1922 to 1941?
When Germans sell military technologies to Soviets or raw resources and food?
Or when they both attack Poles who resist bolsheviks and defeat them in 1920?
Truly you are full of shit.

>>2803629
>Western European

>>2803636
The situations are very different, though. Stalin knew that there were still large Soviet reserves available, his air force still had a chance to compete, his armies had access to raw materials, he had allies in the UK and US, and there was no second front behind Moscow to worry about.

>>2803825
>>2804395
He didn't say it was true, he just said that it's what German soldiers believed. Sheesh...

>>2804004
>Bolshevism and communism made several serious and real attempts at revolution in Germany after WW1.
Communism was not monolithic, though. It's not like it was all centrally commanded from a bunker somewhere. There were multiple groups involved. Certainly there was a struggle between communism and other political philosophies, but it's a bit simplistic to say that "communism made several attempts", as if communism was centrally commanded.

>>2804473
The main reason was that neutral Austria was better for Soviets in the case of war, neutral Austria cant fight and is perfect way how to protect Hungary and southern Czechoslovakia so Warsaw Pact can focus only on western Czechoslovakia and Germany.

>>2804004
>and thats why Germany decided to the the best it could with the hand it held, which was an early surprise attack.
That is literally reasoning made up after the fact. The decision to attack the Soviet Union was made to deprive the British of any hope of Germany being defeated somehow, so they would surrender, since Germany had no way to force Britain to make peace after losing the Battle of Britain. Hitler didn't consider the Soviets a threat at the time and expected a somewhat quick and painless victory. He only came up with the bullshit idea that he had to attack before they attacked after it became clear that there would be no easy victory and his initial reasoning for attacking started to look pretty fucking weak in the face of the reality of the Great Patriotic War, which was essentially the most brutal and destructive war in human history.

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>>2804484
Its a meme picture similar to one that claims Stalin was a Jew, but there is a huge connection between German and Jews for a long time. Most armament industry in 19th century and before and in WW1 in Germany was owned by the Jews. There was also cooperation between IG Farben and Rockefeller-owned Standard Oil Co until war between USA and Germany.
Bolshevik revolution in Russia-supported by Germany, most Red army officers in early stages were Germans or Hungarians, many times sent by the government. Bolsheviks also helped with transportation of German and A-H POWs to Western front and Italy. (this was stopped by Czechoslovak legion)
To pics:
Heydrich got called "Jewish Mongolian" by Canaris ("Frogs in milk-Žáby v mlíku by Jan Drnek), also look at his nose.
Goebbels-Literally a fucking Rabbi by his look
Himmler-Same as Goebbels, required Jewish professors when he studied
(((Rosenberg)))
Skorenzy-Worked for Jews after the war
Frank-Thule member, degenerate cultist
Hitler-well known Zionist-Madagascar Jewish state, quote by Sokolow, wrote in Mein Kampf that "Young well educated volunteers" learned him his political views when he was in WW1, those "young well educated volunteers" were 60% Jewish in his regiment

Pic related General Radola Gajda wrote a lot about Jewish Germanism in his memories "Moje paměti", his fascist party NOF wrote a lot about Jewish Germanism, in 1938 crysis one of their newspapers "Fašistické listy-Fascist papers/lists" wrote "To arms! To arms against Judeo-masonic Germanic Hitlerism, To arms for Slavic nation against Judeogothic barbarism!"

>>2803604
Autism
not even joking

>>2804845
To think that a backwater European northern shithole no one cared about before 1939 managed to cause a cascade of events that led to the events of WW2 eastern front.

>>2803956
Is /his/ even a history board any more

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>>2805018
Heard you were talkin shit.

>>2805093
/his/ was never a history board. It started off as /b/ with dates, then became /int/ with dates, and is now trundling towards being /pol/ with dates.

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>>2805093
Hey kid, wanna create an SSR?

>>2805093
Psst, wanna start a Communist revolution?

>>2803928
Lenin was literally a Jew you retard. Was he going to deport himself? Furthermore, he was absolutely NOT planning to absorb anyone into Russian identity. He started korenization programs with the stated goal of destroying Great Russian nationalism; Lenin is responsible for the fake nationalities of Ukrainian, Belarusian, and others. He hated Russians, like all Jews.

>>2805559
I actually agree with the rest of your post, but calling Lenin a Jew doesn't make any good to anybody, he was a Russian, he self-identified as a Russians and was considered a Russian by others at the time. Even the highly antisemitic Whites never called him a Jew, focusing entirely on Trotsky.

In fairness, most of the high-ranking Germans didn't fully grasp how fucked they were until the Ardennes Offensive crashed and burned. Basically he was just 4 months behind everyone else at all times.

>>2805559
Having Great-Grandfather that had Jewish parents and converted to Orthodox Christianity isnt being Jew you autist

>>2805590
>>2805685
If there is a tiny drop of diarrhea in your drinking water, it isn't drinking water anymore, even if it looks and sounds like water you wouldn't drink it.

Regardless of whether of not you admit he's Jewish, he wasn't Russian anyways; he was half Mordvin or some other Asiatic minority.

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>mfw germans cry about communism and soviet russia despite letting lenin go home to knock russia out of the war in 1917
sure came back to bite them

>>2803636
>German troops equipped and fed
kek

>>2805820
and German
Krauts did it again, deal with it

>>2805559
>Lenin is bad because he supported Ukrainian nationalism and suppresed Russian imperialism
Hol'up there, buddy. Doesn't that make Stalin good because he holod'ed Ukrainians and replaced them with Russians?

>>2803848
>Consider that Germany itself had been victim of an attempted bolsjevist coup in the 1920s as well

Germany had been victim to shitloads of fascist coups in the 1920s as well. Let's not try to act like Bolshevism was the route cause of instability in the 1920s...

>>2806002
No because Stalin was a jew

>>2803636
Stalin had balls

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>>2803609
Kek basically this. He was an unstable monster with a strong force of personality.

>>2803848
>German Opa complains about Russians not respecting conventions
>A moment later he clearly states, that hunting partisans and revenge killing was OK
>Which under those conventions this is war crime
>We dindu nuffin we gud boyz

>>2803956
>German sacrifices in 20s, 30s and 40s
You mean that one time, when Poland actually defeated Soviets, or another time, when Germany and USSR were allies and together invaded the same Poland, or even another time, when they allowed Soviet occupation of central and eastern Europe for dozens of years?

>>2803825
You must admit the Reds did a lit to provoke violence inbetween Belarusian civilians and the German military.

Sure the Germans went overboard by any measure in reacting (if anything, reminds me of how European colonists acted when perceiving being wronged by Native Americans - "they maybe stole a silver cup? Burn the village and kill them all"), but it was always intended as a means to galvanize local support by the Red partisan command.

Does that justify shit like Winterzauber? Fuck no.

T. Grandson of Latvian SS legionnaire.

>>2803804
>germans are the Aryan super race
>jews and communists are inferior

Germany gets obliterated in a war between them,

Really makes you think