Why did AJP Taylor hate Germany so much?

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Anyone with any cursory historical knowledge would hate Germany.

>>2803554
>>2803554
>Why did AJP Taylor hate Germany so much?

because he studied their history...

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>>2803554
Hmmm I do wonder

>>2803554
He hated Germany?
I read his biography on Bismarck and it seemed impartial

>>2803795
In his book 'The Course of German History' he basically argues that the 3rd Reich was a natural extension of German culture rather than an aberration.

>>2803900
How is that different from saying ultranationalist Japan was because of Japanese culture of obedience/shamefur dispray/etc.? Some historians like to pretend to be historical anthropologists.

>>2803900

Which it was. How exactly are you disagreeing? Have you read any fucking so-called German "intellectuals"? They're all a bunch of fascist, anti-freedom, anti-humanism, anti-Enlightenment niggers.

And there's a reason they clashed so much with Jews: much like their enemy, the Germans were CERTAIN that they were the destined race meant to raise western Europe out of their freedom-loving, anti-religion, liberal and individualistic ways.

The Germans that came before the Nazis were hardly any different from the Nazis themselves.

>>2803554
Because it opposed the free love environment he was brought up in
>>2803900
of prussian culture certainly but not wider gemran culture

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>>2804325
>Because it opposed the free love environment
My sides

>>2804311
When did I affirm or deny his argument?

>>2804311
It was Hegel. He's a protofascist. Herder and other fake-nationalist (actually proto-nazi) are too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-Germanism

>>2803900
Old Hegelians -> Bismarck -> Wilhelm -> Hitler

>>2803900
He was hardly the only one to argue that

>>2804363

>implying kant and fichte and all the rest are innocent or that these people came out of a vacuum

>>2804332
Look up his childhood, his Mum would bring home all her fuck toys so he saw a lot of people as 'daddy'

>>2804373
Fichte was pretty nationalistic but Kant seems pretty harmless imo

>>2804378
No I know he had slutty mummy, I'm laughing at the idea that the Germans opposed free love

>>2804396

>harmless
>did his best to destroy reason and show that faith is still supreme which strengthened christianity in germany
>talked about duty reigning supreme in a person's life which then inspired hegel's ideas about state-worship and collectivism

He wasn't as bad as those that followed because he's the one that started it all.

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Just a reminder, always necessary in threads about Germany, that everything you hate about it, applies only to Prussia.

>Nazis

Hardcore Prussianism.

>Hegel

Prussian

>Bismarck

Prussian

>Wilhelm I

Prussian

>Kant

Prussian

>Fichte

Saxon, but he worked in Prussia

>Herder

Prussian

You see? Prussians are the problem, not Germans. Actual Germans are those from Hamburg, the Rhineland and Bavaria have always defended the decentralization of political power, inspired by the existence of the Holy Roman Empire, the most free and liberal state of Europe at its time, which was destroyed by Prussian subversion.

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>>2804423

Then why did the rest of Germany just go along with their bullshit? Also, are they the reason Austria has denied Germany for so long?

I know nothing about the political history of Germany so I'd love a breakdown.

>>2804423
Indeed, but Taylor was often contemptuous of those 'liberal' West Germans who were always so politically impotent and repeatedly failed to save their country from despotism (in 1848, 1933)

>>2804423
>Actual Germans are those from Hamburg, the Rhineland and Bavaria
They're French (Romano-Celtic)

>>2804423
seconding this

>>2804438
The Germans (at least the Rhine-Elbe ones) often thought of Prussia as a semi-barbarous 'other' - but wanted to use its military might as a tool to unify Germany (post-Napoleon).

The Habsburgs (Austria) gradually gave up on trying to unify Germany after failing several times (Charles V, the Thirty Years War and finally the Austro-Prussian war in 1866) and instead focused on a separate 'Austrian' empire rather than trying to be emperors of the German nation

Because his main demographic was the "everyman" of Britain, and therefore he was merely appealing to a demographic.

>>2804481

Bless.

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>>2804438
The Prussian Army, basically. It both convinced the Rhinelanders, Hanoverians, Bavarians, and peoples from the free cities of Hamburg, Frankfurt and Bremen that it was futile to resist to Prussian domination, and in some cases, that Prussian domination was indeed valuable, because at least it defended them from the French (pic related, Louis XIV burning the Rhineland, no wonder they ended up kind of disliking the French).

If you actually look at German stereotypes from before the rise of Prussianism, is the exact opposite of what we think of "Germans" now. Germans from the Middle Ages to the XIXth century were thought as fun-loving, liberal people who couldn't possible get themselves ruled by a centralized state thanks to their love of liberty, and who were also awful at military.

>>2804499

What made the Prussian stock so different?

>>2803900
This is pretty much the dominant view of Germany from anyone (especially British) born between, like, 1870-1945. Read Eyre Crowe's 1907 Memorandum:

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Memorandum_on_the_Present_State_of_British_Relations_with_France_and_Germany

That was pretty much the prevailing view of Germany and the German people in general.

>>2803900
He's
Not
Wrong

Reminder that anti-German (anti-Prussian) sentiment comes pretty much from butthurt Bongs and Frogs mad that an upstart spent a good century and a half regularly embarrasing them. Also butthurt Jan Janblogjovezswkis mad because their weak state suffered the fate of all other weak states throughout history.

>>2804509
Prussia was really just a German Raj in Poland, and its frontier nature bred a hardy class of 'Juncker' rural aristocrats. Frederick the Great used this class to create a highly effective bureaucracy and officer corps - and the rest is history.

>>2804509
Prussia was the first absolutist state in Germany.

You see, the Holy Roman Empire was a very decentralized state, so each ruler was more or less fit to rule as he wanted, specially after the Treaty of Westphalia. Most of those local rulers just wanted to indulge in hedonism and finance the arts, but the Hohenzollern used their to build a centralized state within a state, and also a massive army, and ended up destroying the Empire from within and swallowing the whole of Germany.

At least that's the political history, maybe there is a genetic factor to it too, but I don't know about that.

>>2804527
>anti-German (anti-Prussian)
What did he mean by this?

>>2804311
>>2804526
Do you seriously believe that a country with a thousand years of history can be defined by a 12-years period which was extremely different from most it came before and after?

>>2804527
The British and the Prussians spent centuries together as allies. It's pretty funny when people throw around the word perfidious because you could argue it was the Germans who stabbed them in the back over things as pointless and irrelevant to Germany's fortunes as the Boers.

>>2803900
I think this is a very dangerous position to hold
>national socialism is a natural extension of German culture, this could never happen to us

>>2804603
Germany had the gall to try acquiring colonies and undertaking projects like the Baghdad Railway which caused Britain to flip the fuck out because anyone who even so much as vaguely looked like they might threaten Britain's economic superiority was a moral devil who needed to be brought to heel and learn their place at the feet of Glorious Albion.

The British of that time period, especially those holding higher offices, are about the single most arrogant, self-absorbed people to ever exist. Worse than the French.

>>2804664
Britain supported the Baghdad railway.

>>2803554
Convinced that the German national charcter contained a moral and ethical defect.

This wasn't a new idea. Even Goethe said "I have often felt a bitter sorrow at the thought of the German people, which is so estimable in the individual and so wretched in the generality. A comparison of the German people with other peoples arouses a painful feeling, which I try to overcome in every possible way."

>>2804678
Initially. That obviously changed once Grey and his group of Liberal Imperialists (i.e. Germanophobe) started accruing power though.