music and leftism

>>2800760
>liberals are leftist

I want this meme to end

>>2800760
>Leftist
What the fuck happened to calling someone left leaning or just 'the left'?

Why does everything have to be an -ism now?

God I hate modern politics

>>2800827
>>2800774
t. /leftypol/

You birthed this cancer and you will live with it until the end of your days.

Almost all artists are leftists. The famous ones you hear about, anyways.

>>2800839
Yo dude chill, I've never even been on /leftypol/, I'm just saying I don't like this trend of turning everything into an -ism.

>>2800760
>Why are musicians usually leftist?
Fear

>>2800827
the rise of /pol/ and their worldview has done colossal damage to political discourse

>>2800888
Political discourse doesn't exist, only war

>>2800760

just typical bleeding heart retardation for the most part.

Eric Clapton got drunk one night in the 80s and said Enoch Powell was right though

Right wingers can't into art

>>2800851
The best writers are right-wing. Chesterton, Tolkien, Hawthorne, Lovecraft
, etc . And this isn't even getting into the pre-French revolution era.

>>2800948
>The best writers are right-wing. Chesterton, Tolkien, Hawthorne, Lovecraft
Horrible taste.

You could have at least said someone like Goethe.

>>2800948
>Tolkien
>right wing
what? He said he leaned mostly towards anarchy, plus he hated the nazis

>>2800944

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6OQCncAiC8

but by all means, your shitty pop music is much better. SUPPORT THE EU!

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>>2800760
>usually leftist
[citation needed]
Just golly

>pic related

>>2800962

lol reminds me of this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSQJ2ULuhb8

>>2800948
>The best writers are right-wing. >Chesterton, Tolkien, Hawthorne, Lovecraft
>

>>2800888
I enjoy ripping on /pol/ too, but this has been going on a long time.

>>2800760
Because the music industry is Jewish.

inb4 "I know one gentile in the music industry"
inb4 "I know one non-leftist Jew"

Fuck off with your anecdotal 'evidence'

>>2800760
What is it you want, a dump of conservative musicians? Or are you expecting people to take your generalisation seriously?

It's probably a young person thing. Generally young people are more enthusiastic about music and maybe social about it, going to concerts and participating in musical culture. The same is true of a lot of leftist activism. It's something people have a nice time with, but then do something else with their lives when they get older, typically. But it's usually the same age group in the audience at concerts and at activist marches. That's probably it.

>>2800958
Monarchical anarchism some would say. He was very anti-state but that does not automatically make him a commie.

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>>2800760
define leftism

go on.

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>>2801066
Daily reminder that Roger Waters IS NOT a fan of the State of Israel.

>>2800760
because they're not business managers nor economists nor number-oriented-people

>>2801188
>>2801188
<3

>>2800760
Most none liberal artists are smart enough to keep their fucking mouths shut.

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>>2800962

>>2800760
Can't be creative and be a prudish utilitarian at the same time.

>>2800948
Two of those guys aren't right wing and Chesterton helped influence the Nazi ideology. I'll agree with Lovecraft though.

>>2800760
That's the wrong question to ask. The correct question is:

Why are leftist musicians advertised and promoted?

>>2800958
Tolkien was a hardcore traditionalist. Because most people are ignorant they conflate traditionalism with authoritarianism or totalitarianism when in reality the amount of freedoms the traditional man had would blow our mind compared to today.

>>2801553
>Two of those guys aren't right win
Which two? Not traditionalist catholic Tolkien or Right-wing Hawthorne.

>>2801641
>Tolkien
see >>2800958
>Hawthorne
He despised the puritans and was all about the shame he felt for being related to them.

>>2801648
That post is wrong. Tolkien was a traditionalist catholic.

>>2801648
>He despised the puritans and was all about the shame he felt for being related to them.
Which has nothing to do with his political leanings which were right-wing.

>>2801662
>literal white guilt is right wing

>>2801671
>hating anti-traditionalist protestants somehow is White guilt
hating puritans is one of the most right wing things you could do.

>>2801553
>Chesterton helped influence Nazi idealogy

care to explain?

>>2801671
Hawthorne is right wing because he was a conservative with reactionary tendency. However he felt about puritans had little to do with that as puritans are just a weird group in history.

>>2801553
All four of those guys are right wing. Study them.

>>2801188
Neither are a lot of Jews.

Most intellectuals are leftist because leftism gives power, money and influence to intellectuals.

During the New Deal, for example, the Works Progress Administration subsidized musicians, among other artists.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Project_Number_One

>>2801034
See >>2800953
And pretty much anyone else worth his salt. The exception might be American revolutionary writers like Ben Franklin who might have been seen as liberal by their time. Though by today's standards they'd be far right.

>>2800760
They weren't, prior to the 1950's.

>>2801713
>Federal Music Project
>In addition to performing thousands of concerts, offering music classes, organizing the Composers Forum Laboratory, hosting music festivals and creating 34 new orchestras, employees of the FMP researched American traditional music and folk songs, a practice now called ethnomusicology.
Seems like important cultural work.

Is some rural bard playing tarantella left wing? I think OP your premise is false.

>>2800760
Because they're fans are dumb children of baby boomers 80% of famous musicians is smart marketing theory

>>2801713

But I'm confused. Doesn't leftist economics give more power and influence to the poor and oppressed? That's what they always fight for.

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>>2800760
>tfw favorite band usually stays far away from politics
>mfw they recently joined a planned parenthood benefit
Kill me

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>>2800760
>what is beach boys
>what is Neil young
>what is the animals
>what is jimi Hendrix
>what is bob Dylan
Yea no

>>2801933
New Deal isn't "leftist economics"

>>2800851
My unsubstantiated guess is that the new and novel is what brings artists to succeed, and new political ideas appeal to the same type of person as new art styles and interpretations.

>>2801933
>believing this
Lmaoooo

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>>2800760

People who don't understand economics are left-wing by default, and very few musicians have an understanding of economics. The more economic understand a person has, the more they drift to the right.

>>2801955
Yea that's why they have 5 different accountants and lose all their money by 40 even right wing artists don't get it

>>2801944
For this to be an adequate rebuttal, there would need to be a total of no more than 10 musicians/bands in the world.

>>2801942
Who

>>2801944
I heard John Lennon was right wing and all that hippie talk was oppurtunist drivel $$$

>>2801977
Not to turn this into a /mu/ thread, but Foo Fighters

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Most intelligent folks are.
Conservatives in the US are regressive as fuck and typically less well educated.
Conservative voters tend to see the world in black and white, think long arguments and expertise are evidence of conspiracy rather than an effort to explain nuanced reality.
I'm just being honest.

>>2802014
>Foo Fighters
>favorite band

I got made fun of in the 8th grade for saying this.

By the 9th grade, I'd discovered Nirvana

I find it difficult to comprehend how somebody could be an adult and have the Foo Fighters as their favorite band.

They aren't even bad, they're just extremely vanilla. Jack of all trades, master of none.

>>2802027
Unironically this.

Also, the reason they hate academia and "mainstream media" is primarily because those are institutions that exist to find independent truth and that interferes with the right wing's identity politics.

>>2802027

There's more to the right-wing than just typical religious conservatives. Free-market advocates, as well as nationalist reactionaries, both tend to be more intelligent than normal liberals.

>>2802028
>hey your opinions are wrong hehe
Like I said, not trying to turn this into a /mu/ thread. Arguing over what music is better is like me trying to convince you what flavor of ice cream you like the most.

>>2800857
Where even is leftypol? I type that in the url and nothing comes up. It's not even listed on the sites front page.

>>2802046
I'm not even telling you your opinions are wrong, just unexpected.

>>2802027

Trump got the majority of college educated whites

>>2801639
Traditionalism =/= rightwing

>>2802027

If it seems like most "intelligent folks" are leftists, it's because the current climate in the US and the West supports the leftist worldview. Most educated, intelligent people in places such as Japan would be considered far-right fascists in the West because of their xenophobia. The culture of Japan has not embraced multiculutralism like the West and so the intellectuals in Japan do not embrace it. The most intelligent people in a culture are usually just a reflection of the culture's values.

>>2802059
Traditionalism is right wing. Capitalism and liberalism aren't.

>>2802074
No traditionalism is not on the spectrum. There are leftist tradionalists and nationalists.

>>2802080
>There are leftist tradionalists and nationalists.
The original dichotomy was right wing = monarchism, left wing = liberalism. People have attempted to twist it ever since but if right-wing has any meaning at all it's synonymous with reactionary and traditionalist ideology.

>>2802068
Please, my cousin is Japanese born and raised there. He's a damn genius, but his views are pretty typical leftist. He even complained that Japan is not diverse enough.

>>2802086
>anecdotal story
That's nice but has no value to the discussion.

>>2802084

right-wing and left-wing literally have no meaning anymore

the world would be better off if we dumped this useless spectrum into the dustbin of history

>>2802027
Reminder that anime posters can be safely ignored

>>2802035
>>2802027
t.underagers

>>2802092
Radical centrism is the future.

>>2802091
In Japan theres a pretty big generational difference in political views, and it leans either apolitical or leftist. The only reason they have a rightwing government is cause young people don't vote.

>>2802101
Purging of sjw and pol when?

Lots of money and a complete lack of real world experience in regular jobs.

>>2801066
Roger Waters is very anti-Israel and has been frequently condemned by various Jewish groups in Britain.

Fuck off to /pol/ with your victim mentality.

>>2802164
>implying Roger doesn't want to gas the kikes.

Get woke faggot.

>>2800760
Because artists are generally leftist.

The reason for this is that the majority of artists is poor and even the successful ones were usually poor at some point in their lives and always in the position to justify their existence to their family and friends who'd rather have them do something "proper" that pays the bills - which is the conservative position - rather than take the risk of chasing their "unrealistic" dreams; this alone alienates artists from conservatives.
The political left wants to make life easier for the poor and install social safety nets that make sure that people won't fall as hard if things don't work out. Naturally this appeals to people who do something of which they don't yet know whether it will pay their bills.

>>2800948
>The best writers
>Chesterton, Tolkien, Hawthorne, Lovecraft
*tips fedora*

>>2800760
Music, acting and the arts in general are professions where the majority of people don't make it. In order to make it, you usually have to spend a lot of time in a very precarious position, which people are often willing to do because such professions inspire dedication in a way that others don't. This is also why these industries are comparatively very under unionized.

I am not certain, but it seems like living in a position of hardship like that for a while and knowing lots of people still in that position will lead people to think handouts from the state are a good thing, even when the thing that necessitates them is self inflicted. I imagine they think their own time would have been easier with handouts, and don't think beyond that immediate consequence.

Other than that it goes without saying it's far easier for celebrities to support "liberal" political views in public without getting attacked by everyone. Why the media establishment attacks non-liberal views is unclear, but it might have something to do with a big state being in the interests of big businesses, who hold all the influence here.

Because the industry is left leaning, duh.

>>2800760
their careers depend on being popular, no one finds being told what they need to hear entertaining

>>2800760
Creative ability lends itself to being against the status quo.

Creatives are often against the political systems of the day, regardless of what it is. They always take the edgiest shit. In times of liberalism, creatives are either leftists or fascists.

If leftism continues to become more dominant, you will likely see a new breed of creatives who have anti-left ideas, as we are already starting to see.

Of course, artists promoted by the establishment will often share establishment values (but not always)

>>2803515
Simple reason, the arts simply can't exist with patronage. It never has existed. Sure, under capitalism, some, very few, artists manage to survive in the market place, but that is becoming increasingly hard, especially for artists and musicians with creative integrity who don't just want to make mass marketable crap.

Back in the old days, artists and musicians were usually funded by one or two wealthy patrons, nobles.

Now, artists and musicians have to rely on state welfare and/or grants to fund their development of a skill.

Expert artists don't really don't have time for full time day jobs. It is a myth to say that all artists should have a day job. They often do, but if learning your skill or talent, practising it, and promoting it, is AT LEAST a part time job in itself.

>they are creatyv special snowflakes

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Artists are bad politicians though. At best they are just glorified cheerleaders, introducing people into non-mainstream topics. At worst they kill reason and turn people to useless melancholia (like, a lot of critically-acclaimed rock albums are nihilist and decadent, quite powerfully so). They are actually very dangerous for leftist politics because they often inspire more on the 'emotional' side rather than the 'rational' side of the debate. This is simply because art and politics have totally different logic. Someone who is good at one thing isn't necessarily good at another thing. The biggest example actually didn't come from left-wing politics, but from the Nazi. Hitler was an artist, and envisioned Germany from an aestheticization of politics.

>>2803593
>Hitler was an artist
He wasn't very good at it though.

>>2803608
>>2803593

Mussolini probably would have made a better artist than a politician (although obviously he had skill as a politician). Mussolini had the right appreciation of aesthetics. You could tell by the way he approached life, wrote, and dressed.

>>2800760
Because they tend to be high in Trait Openness, which predicts liberalism, but the right hardly has a liberal wing these days, so they go to the left. They may also be unconscientious.

>>2802847
I know you think left wing luminaries like jk Rowling and Steven king are good but they really aren't
>>2801034
I forgot to add Orson Scott Card and Frank Herbert. I'm telling you man, the best writers are right wing.

>>2803666
> I'm telling you man, the best writers right wing.

They haven't been since at least the 1930s.

>>2803683
So that's why modern writers are shit.

>>2803708
>So that's why modern writers are shit.

1930s was the period of high-modernism. If you mean contemporary authors, then you're mistaken. There are plenty of fantastic authors. It's worth noting that although there were a plethora of right wing artists around 1900-1930, there were also a lot of left wing writers, and prior to 1900, right/left wing as a term probably doesn't really apply that much.

If you want to read good post-war fiction, go to /lit/ and look at the sticky or a chart, or here's some recommendations: Cormac McCarthy's Blood Meridian, Thomas Pynchon, William Gaddis, Joseph McElroy.

>>2802049
It's on eightchan

Cool community, mostly angry academic Marxists who read too much and complain about SJWs

>>2803683
Orson Scott Card and Frank Herbert are post 1930s.

>>2800948
Lovecraft wasn't a great writer. Just a fun, pulpy storyteller comparable to Edgar Rice Boroughs.

>>2801147
Wanting more equality rather than less

>>2803774
Mostly anarkiddies though.

>>2801944
Are you saying Bob Dylan was not a leftist? What the hell?

These days Neil Young is a typical old hippie liberal grumbling about Monsanto.

>>2803774
Very slow though. The discussion is slightly more serious and less-memey than 4chan though.

>>2803666
>I forgot to add Orson Scott Card and Frank Herbert.
Yeah but science fiction has always been an audience mostly comprising of white conservative men, so it's no surprise that the authors who write books for them follow suit.

>>2803829
Not any slower than /his/ I don't believe

It's grown pretty substantially in the past year, although this means more shitty posters who don't understand socialism

>>2802068
Nah a lot of educated Japanese are liberals or legit commies.

Japan isn't the right-wing ideological homogeneity that /pol/ wants it to be. Its left is far more radical, important, and militant than anything in America.

>>2803796
He's more libertarian and Monsanto is objectivly cancer whether your right or left

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>>2803842

>>2803796
Bob hated hippie and was one of the first artists that spoke out against "equality" meme

>>2803846
$$$

>>2803830
That doesn't take away from the fact that these are great writers.

>>2800760
How about actually posting legit leftist song in the OP?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iAIM02kv0g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTafZRecy2k

>>2803863
>genre fiction
>great writings

>>2800760
Because winners are usually rightists, and there is a lot of musicians.

>>2803872
>ignore other examples
>doesn't like dune
Into the trash it goes.

>>2803847
Bob Dylan was a far left winger who came from a folk tradition dominated by communists and pushed back hard against traditional economic and social hierarchies supported by the right wing. He constantly rallied against the brutality of American foreign policy and much of his music (North Country Blues, Masters of War, When the Ship Comes In, parts of Highway 61) Revisited have socialistic themes of anticapitalism, anti-imperialism, and even revolution.

He was a huge civil rights advocate and organized voter registration drives for poor black farm workers even before the Voting Rights Act. Much of his music is expressly anti-racist, with Only a Pawn in Their Game recognizing racism as part of a greater white supremacist hierarchy meant to empower rich whites over everybody else.

Fuck out of here.

>>2803863
It's scifi

They're entertaining but that's it

Muh benefits from the state subsidizing "culture".

Since their job is inherently less valuable to society, they benefit from big state.

>>2803892
You're actually wrong and your feelings are hurt because you think your delusional ideas align with bobs

>>2803892
>greater white supremacist hierarchy meant to empower rich whites over everybody else.
Will this meme ever die? The reason the word "black" fits so easily in the American lexicon is because for most of American history Blacks represented one ethnic group of people. The decedents of Slaves purchased from West Africa. They have their own values, culture, tradtions ect. Now that Black immigrants have been coming to America more often it's creating problems through the terminology and issues like whether or not White South Africans are African American.

The term "White" in America has no meaning. ""White"" includes literally dozens of ethnic groups who have had completely different historical experiences. Most of these "Whites" only gained equal recognition with WASPy types and Germanic protestants during and after the civil rights era. I'm sick of people acting like "White" has legitimate meaning in discourse.

>>2803908
>Implying STEMfags don't benefit more than anyone from big state

>>2803936
I didn't. STEM usually are leftist too.
Right wing is mostly composed from muh propierty business and entrepeneur ppl

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>>2800948
>Chesterton
>His best books are literally Nancy Drew with a priest

>>2803950
In other words, people who don't actually produce anything for society: middlemen and salespeople demanding a larger cut from the actual talent

>>2803908
Art and entertainment are economic diamond mines and can literally change culture and directly influences people.

Besides, if it didn't have value to society, no government would actually give benefits to it.

>>2802027
>conspiracy
i've noticed rightists are very big on conspiracy theories

>>2803863
As the guy you were responding too:

I didn't say it wasn't, what I said is that you're taking a small slice of the overall demographics of authors and the audiences they cater/pander too, which is itself a much smaller piece of the ecosystem of people employed in the business of making and selling art

>>2804012
It depends. During the Bush era it was lefties who were 9/11 is an inside job. During the Obama era is was right-wingers.

Of course, if accept that both right-wing and left-wing include many different ideologies which are in many instances ideologically opposed to one another the fact is both right and left wingers subscribe to so called conspiracy theories.

>>2803847
>spoke out against "equality" meme

That's why he was the most famous musician to come out of the civil rights era

lmao

>>2800760
>why are people who rely on their popularity for income appear to have the same political leanings as their main demo?
Who knows anon, it's a mystery.

>>2803666
>talks shit about stephen king
>shows appreciation for orson scott card and frank herbert

Drivel and drivel, you have the taste of those 15 yo youtube commenters who whine about their generation

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>>2802095
>anime posters
Where do you think you are?

>>2804034
He said in his autobiography he got paid thousands of dollars for it also the fact that you think artists don't have a pr team is pretty cute

>>2804058
Stephen your a fucking pedo fuck off

>>2804022
it's a false dichotomy, though. Liberals tend to fixate on the "enemy out in the open" like large corporations. They're more likely to freak themselves out watching a documentary about the poor conditions inside of commercial slaughterhouses than go on some unsourced blog and read about how the military is running drills for a hostile take over of western Texas.
http://www.cnn.com/videos/cnnmoney/2017/04/22/alex-jones-performance-artist-smerconish.cnn

>>2804012
Yeah, like when it comes to monsanto and nuclear power.
Oh wait.

>>2800760
Why do people in [field] are more likely to think like [people who control the field]?
It might be due to magic, anon.

>>2800760
Kys

>>2804135
Any liberal whining about muh white supremacy or muh patriarchy is a conspiracy theorist,

>>2804282
yeah, the nuttiest of the nutty. For most of them that kind of shit is just a phase that they go through and stop when people smack them back down to reality.

There is nothing comparable on the left to something like infowars, which takes conspiracy theorizing to a whole new level of organization.

If you are making fun of waters you need to kill yourself. Shit like Not Now John and half the songs on Amused to Death are god tier.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w-5yy9nDk1s

>>2803917
Bob Dylan was a leftist by any reasonable approximation

>>2804790
>he hasent listened to blood on the tracks

>>2805103
Certainly not a conservative album

>>2802044
Sounds like complete bullshit to me

>>2804790
Dylan began as a leftist in the 60's (like pretty much every young folk/rock star in the 60's) but by the time he started putting out the Christian rock trio and Infidels he slanted distinctly to the Christian/zionist right and was an avid supporter of Israel into the early 80's.

>>2801188
You can exist in the music industry without being a good goy and hating Israel isn't exactly an uncommon opinion among liberals/lefties.

>>2800760
(Not true btw)

>>2803839
proofs?

>>2800760
reminder that this thread belongs on /pol/ but the mods will let it stay here because muh humanities

>>2800958
Most right wingers hate the nazis and most left wingers hate Stalin.

Tolkien was a huge Christian and Traditionalist sorta like C.S Louis. He was so reactionary he even hated the industrial revolution.

>>2800958
Just because skinny ass white kids on Reddit worship him doesn't mean he was one of them.

Also the whole Christian world outside Germany hated the nazis.

>>2803774
Leftypol are a bunch of butthurt reactionary white kids. Not true leftists.

>>2807113
Brocialists, amirite?

>>2800948
Wtf does this thread have to do with books kys

>>2800948
Don't forget Orwell

>>2801066
Leftist are constantly condemning Israel

>>2801639
So he was an anarchist primitivist
That's radical left

>>2807071
Biggest communist party outside Russia and China, growing rapidly with lots of youth appeal

>>2807170
You're probably memeing but he was a hardcore socialist

>>2807113
So basically on the other side of the horseshoe to that of regular pol?

>>2800953
Goethe wasnt right wing at all.

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>>2800948
>Lovecraft

I know he gets a bad reputation on account of his writing style, but I really love his works.

>>2800948
there are so many good ones yet choose them. probably a false flag
>chaucer
>milton
>joyce

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>>2807079
Yeah, right-wingers don't get to "claim" Tolkien. Nobody does. He specifically set out to write LOTR as being open allegory and NOT put forth any ascertainable agenda. Half the reason people fight over what what LOTR meant is because Tolkien specifically crafted it to be that way, that anyone could take what they wanted from it because it is at its core a well written story and nothing else.

Compare this to C.S. Lewis, who adopted a protestant mentality that everything he made should be loaded with Christian metaphor and allegory, and that the story should act as a delivery vehicle to help people appreciate the nuances of the Christian religion. That's why Aslan the lion is a blatant metaphor for Jesus Christ.

It's worth noting that Tolkien's first audience, the one that propelled him to immortality, was the hippie movement, which traded the novel ravenously among themselves and took from it not a religious-traditionalist allegory, but an anti-capitalist, anti-industrialist, green allegory, instead.

Tolkien is just that, a great storyteller. Not a "right-wing" story teller or a "left-wing" one, his work was specifically engineered to transcend such petty tribalism in the name of art.

>>2800958
>socialism
>right wing

kys

>>2807358
>leftypol thinks orwell was a socialist
>didn't read animal farm
Typical
Orwell HATED socialism

>>2808715
>a man who fought for the Republicans in the Spanish Civil War hated socialists

>>2808733
That was before he took the redpill
He wrote 2 books animal farm and big brother, both condemning socialism

>>2806347
Dylan's Christian albums was about trolling the right with the most ridiculous religious music possible, and watching them accept it. He was mocking them.

He was always a secular Jew, firmly within the leftist socialist/progressive tradition. He hates Christians and everything they believe and do.

>>2808653
>“My political opinions lean more and more to Anarchy (philosophically understood, meaning the abolition of control not whiskered men with bombs) — or to ‘unconstitutional’ Monarchy. I would arrest anybody who uses the word State (in any sense other than the inaminate real of England and its inhabitants, a thing that has neither power, rights nor mind); and after a chance of recantation, execute them if they remained obstinate!"

Tolkien would totally endorse the physical removal of degenerates and helicopter rides for commies. He did endorse Franco during the Spanish Civil War.

There is no way he was anything other than right-wing. If he wasn't a racist, it was just because he probably saw scientific racism as one of those modern ideologies that accompanied the industrial revolution.

>>2808715
>>2808753

No,

George Orwell was a democratic socialist who hated LENINISM-STALINISM. He saw it for the thinly veiled ultra-nationalistic police state that it was, and both Animal Farm and 1984 are a protest against Leninism-Stalinism from the viewpoint of a socialist

https://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/1980s/1986/no-986-october-1986/political-ideas-george-orwell

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>>2808783
>Tolkien would totally endorse the physical removal of degenerates and helicopter rides for commies. He did endorse Franco during the Spanish Civil War.
Don't be ridiculous. Tolkien despised all forms of concentrated power, he despised both fascism and communism, and he also despised socialism and capitalism, believing all of them to be wrong-headed. He is most often described as a traditionalist-moderate, with libertarian, distributist, and monarchist leanings.

And you don't have a shred of evidence that he was a racist, which is deliciously ironic considering that LOTR is a story about a bunch of different "species" (human, elf, dwarf, and hobbit) putting aside their differences in a "fellowship", to combat a male-only species of mostly identical mongoloids bred out of holes in the ground for nothing but war.

And none of that changes the fact that Tolkien put his political beliefs aside when he was writing LOTR, and that's the real beauty of his work: it's something that you don't need to be a Catholic-traditionalist in order to enjoy.

>>2808822
Traditional Catholicism isn't "racist" but it sure as hell is right-wing.

>>2807356
Do you think it could be out of dissatisfaction with the democratic party? Scientific socialism isn't as radical as the splintered communist parties you see in the US

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>>2808828
>applying modern labels to historical figures and institutions
There's much about Traditional Catholicism, particularly being anti-capitalist (in the sense that society should redistribute resources to the poor and in service to the sciences and the arts) that most right-wingers would be in profound disagreement with.

>>2808847
>capitalism
>right wing
Pick one.

>>2808822
That's not me saying it, it's Tolkien himself, in one of his letters, see again:

>I would arrest anybody who uses the word State (in any sense other than the inaminate real of England and its inhabitants, a thing that has neither power, rights nor mind); and after a chance of recantation, execute them if they remained obstinate

As much as he hated centralization of power, he hated degenerates and subversives even more.

>>2808846
Japan essentially inspired a bunch of the student protests worldwide in the '60s. Their left lost face when, in the '70s, the Japanese Red Army gunned down some folks in Israel, but the JP far left is not a new phenomenon.

>>2808900
Yeah, I know that much.
I'm saying the democratic party is a pretty poor opposition to the LDP which might explain the recent spike in communist party votes.

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>>2808848
You're just continuously shifting the goal posts of "right-wing" into more and more vaguer terms.
You're trying to extend modern tribal markings over someone who would have despised such a thing.

>>2808855
>Look at this one cherry picked quote, it disqualifies an entire body of literature!
two can play at this game
>"Thank you for your letter... I regret that I am not clear as to what you intend by arisch. I am not of Aryan extraction: that is Indo-Iranian; as far as I am aware noone [sic] of my ancestors spoke Hindustani, Persian, Gypsy, or any related dialects. But if I am to understand that you are enquiring whether I am of Jewish origin, I can only reply that I regret that I appear to have no ancestors of that gifted people."
>"I have the hatred of apartheid in my bones; and most of all I detest the segregation or separation of Language and Literature. I do not care which of them you think White."
>"Anyway, I have in this War a burning private grudge—which would probably make me a better soldier at 49 than I was at 22: against that ruddy little ignoramus Adolf Hitler (for the odd thing about demonic inspiration and impetus is that it in no way enhances the purely intellectual stature: it chiefly affects the mere will). Ruining, perverting, misapplying, and making for ever accursed, that noble northern spirit, a supreme contribution to Europe, which I have ever loved, and tried to present in its true light."

The best case you can make for Tolkien being a racist is that he was an accidental or unintentional racist, a very common kind of white person who has a subconscious racism because of the preconceived biases adopted by the conformist culture of their time, but would not profess any outward allegiance to the concept of racial superiority. Half the problem is that "open allegory" means that racists can take it to mean a racial allegory if they choose to, because that's the strength of his writing.

>>2808784
I was merely pretending you simple fool

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>>2808917
First off, define "racist." If racism is thinking your own in group is superior than every nigger, spic and chink on the planet is racist. Thus the term is meaningless. Also being right-wing has nothing to do with racism or capitalism and has everything to do with metaphysical outlook.

peer pressure

>>2808914
Ah, gotcha.

>>2807356
The Japanese Communist Party occupies a place similar to right-wing populist parties in the West. It is the anti-establishment party everybody hates and no one cooperates with, it will always have 10-15% of the votes, but it will never rule.

It says a lot about Japan that while in the West anti-establish parties are right-wing populist, in Japan it is a communist party. In the West, communists and ex-communists are the establishment.

>>2808917
As I said, he hated Nazis and racists because he considered them too modern. He was to the right of Hitler in this sense.

>>2808927
>First off, define "racist."
That's beyond the scope of this discussion. What I am demonstrating is that Tolkien more or less flatly rejected virtually every "right-wing" movement that existed in his time, from far-right fascism, to nationalism, to conservatism. His political views can best be described as moderate-traditionalist.

>metaphysical outlook.
at which point, ascribing kinship with him becomes about as arbitrary as doing so because the pigment of his skin matches yours. The practice of a good professional is not letting those sort of things influence your ability to function in a rigorous setting. That's what makes LOTR such an enduring work, even among people in cultures which are far detached from Western concepts of left and right, because he was writing with the intention of producing work that appealed to universal human values through use of narrative structure alone.

If you're looking for an "artist" who was a flaming right-winger, you could have at least gone with Walt Disney

>>2800944
>right wingers can't into art
>t.s. eliot
>ezra pound
>perennial philosophy
>scholasticism
>catholic stuff
damn you's a punk ass busta

>>2809522
Don't forget some of the most important visual guys of the past 150 years

Walt Disney
Salvatore Dali
James Montgomery Flagg

The point is, art is a profession, a business like any other business out there, and ascribing political tribalism to working professionals is retarded. Most of them, left or right, put aside their opinions in the interest of simply making good art, and some were quite the progressive visionaries of their field: Walt Disney tried in vain for years to make animation which appealed to adults; his only movies which made shitloads of money were his princess movies. And one could very well make the argument that this blind groping for an adult audience was discovered by the Japanese mangeka who were blatantly aping his style and techniques and making it their own, and the people who have done successfully in that field owe a huge debt of gratitude to the guy whose idea of a fun time as a child was to string up a bed sheet and project his animations onto it for the enjoyment of his adult family members.

>>2809026
>What I am demonstrating is that Tolkien more or less flatly rejected virtually every "right-wing" movement that existed in his time
He was spiritually a part of the traditionalist movement though. He seemed apolitical (in a stoic sense that it's just a waste of time considering you're not going to change anything and are better off fostering the person you'd like to be over changing the world) but if it was up to him we'd probably have something similar to archeofuturism.

>>2808846
Scientific socialism just means Marxism

>>2808778
Dylan very visibly converted to Christianity after decades of performing and appreciating traditional Christian music

>>2809917
He "visibly" converted to Christianity to mock Christians.

None of those communist folk revivalists actually cared much for the traditional culture that produced the folk music they performed. Much less if he was a Jew like Zimmerman.

>>2802008
Lol no
John Lennon was a libertarian communist

>>2808715
Memes, he traveled hundreds of miles to fight got socialism in Spain

At worst, the socialism of Animal Farm is depicted as just as bad as prerevolutionary capitalism. Napoleon is not a unique tyrant, but identical to the old human farmer

>>2809938
Why do you believe that to be the case?

>>2809954
It doesn't make sense for a communist Jew to suddenly become a Christian. He doesn't even pretends to be one anymore, which further reinforces that the "Christian phase" was just ellaborated trolling.

Not musicians, pop """musicians"""

Classical composers were conservative

>>2810004

Really?

>>2810004
Were they? Many from the Romantic era were nationalists in a time when nationalism was a radical left-wing ideology. Individually, Beethoven had a hard-on for Napoleon, Gustav Mahler was Jewish and Mozart a freemason.

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>Examining the philosophical effects of popular music on the lives of students, Bloom placed pop music, or as it is generically branded by record companies "rock music", in a historical context from Plato’s Republic to Friedrich Nietzsche’s Dionysian longings. Treating it for the first time with genuine philosophical interest, he gave fresh attention to the industry, its target-marketing to children and teenagers, its top performers, its place in our late-capitalist bourgeois economy, and its pretensions to liberation and freedom. Bloom, informed by Socrates, Aristotle, Rousseau, and Nietzsche, explores music’s power over the human soul. He cites the soldier who throws himself into battle at the urging of the drum corps, the pious believer who prays under the spell of a religious hymn, the lover seduced by the romantic guitar, and points towards the tradition of philosophy that treated musical education as paramount. He names the pop-star Mick Jagger as a cardinal representative of the hypocrisy and erotic-sterility of pop-music. Pop music employs sexual images and language to enthrall the young and to persuade them that their petty rebelliousness is authentic politics, when, in fact, they are being controlled by the money-managers whom successful performers like Jagger quietly serve. Bloom claims that Jagger is a hero to many university students who envy his fame and wealth but are really just bored by the lack of options before them.[3] Along with the absence of literature in the lives of the young and their sexual but often unerotic relationships, Bloom tries to explain the current state of education in a fashion beyond the purview of an economist or psychiatrist—contemporary culture's leading umpires.

>>2801942
>but favorite band's second album
>turns out they used my money to donate to trannies
Why are all the good Midwestern emo bands fucking lefties?

>>2810023
And? JS Bach was extremely conservative and religious by our standards.

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>>2800948
>this is what /pol/locks sincerely believe

>>2810058
Excluding the Romantics (and btw Wordsworth became a Tory in his later years), most great writers in history have had conservative views.

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>>2809941
>libertarian
>communist

>>2809979
http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2016/may/rare-letter-by-bob-dylan-reflects-a-strong-christian-faith
>conversions never happen
Wew

>>2811076
I don't believe it. Even the language is too exaggerated to be true, as if he is actually imitating what he, as a Jew, believes Christians are like for the sake of performance art.

>>2811098
If you read anything about him you'll know bob is far from anything left maybe libertarian not a commie that you wish he was

>>2811159
I have to admit that I'm prejudiced, but I just can't believe that a Jew, coming from a scene dominated by communists, that during the 1960s celebrated not only the Civil Rights movement but student radicalism, can be anything but a man of the left.

Maybe not a commie, but certainly a liberal progressive.

Musicians are people that generally need to be "made", and the people who "make" artists are generally left-leaning.
It all comes back to academia at one point or another, niggggaaaa

>>2811189
Definitely not just read about him he's smarter then you think and some Jews are conservative believe or not also he was the only good folk singer every other one tried to literally overthrow the government bob never tried to do that he was more "I'm making my music for the check" kinda guy

>>2800760

Why do I get the idea if Roger grew up in our day he'd literally be /ourguy/?