How do secular Arab nationalists deal with the fact that the

>>2795262
I got u senpai.

Similar to how a Frenchman can identify as French and being very French nationalist even though what it means to be French is very much defined by Catholicism.

The same analogy could be applied to many European nations. Shared identity. The religion is far less important than the shared cultural heritage that defines and binds us. The middle east has been religiously radicalizing for awhile, it used to be on the by and by as religious as any part of Europe.

Dealing with it implies it's an issue. It's not an issue, its a boon. Yes, we DO have this shared culture, and thats good and we should be one nation based on that.

The flag being made by a brit isn't an issue because it's cosmetic and does incorporate traditional arabic heritage concepts in its color scheme. Probably would have developed into an issue if the Mideast was more stable.

>>2795262
The same way "Nationalists" on the Americas speak their language (English, Spanish, French or Aymara, Quechua, Nahuatl or Kiche) in the Americas. They have forgoten their original language

>>2795262
So of them wanted to roll back the Arabization of their nations, IIRC.

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>>2795262
I'll tell you how: we believe Islam is a product of Arab culture and an Arab nationalist ideology. We recognise Muhammad as a great conquerer, like Alexander, Caesar, etc.

However we also recognise that Islamic law was made for the 7th century, and while we honour and respect the role Muhammad and Islam played in the formation of the Arab nation, we believe secular nationalism is the way to do in the current era.

Michel Aflaq explained it pretty good you should read his book.

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secular arab nationalism was a pathetic failure. Pic related was the final nail in its coffin.

>>2796285
But why would you get rid of the only force that has ever made Arabs prominent?

>>2796285
Except nationalism is anti islamic in nature. By being an arab nationalist you are spitting in the grave of every famous arab muslim.
Also genetically you're not arab. You just adopted their language and identity after they conquered you.

>>2795262
Arabs
Muslim>Arab>Nationalists
Euros
Nationalists>Europeans>Christians

Secular nationalism in MENA has been tried and it failed miserably. Look at Ba'athism. It's the only pan-Arab ideology that was inclusive to non-Muslim Arabs; and even they couldn't divorce themselves from Islam. It's the only picturesque description of Arab greatness, because it not only unified them but was arguably the height of their existence as a people. Plus, nationalism in the European sense isn't heralded by Arabs. A lot of them feel cheated by Sykes-Picot for example, and have been trying to develop their own identity politics since colonial days. Except it doesn't work.

The only thing unifying MENA is Islam and some people just can't accept it.

Being a secularist doesn't mean you need to irrationally hate religion. That's just American and French autism in the West.

>>2796285
filthy
FILTHY
FILTHY FILTHY FILTHY

>>2796297
>devided we fall

love how they don't even mention the US or britain on israel's side.

>>2796375
>>2796390
>why don't you want to live in a political system where people are stoned and women live in tents

GEEE I WONDER

Islam was a tool to unite the Arabs. It's inherently nationalist. Persians were butthurt at having their empire erased so they tried to coopt Islam.

And it's ideals are backwards by present standards. We can honour its historical role without adopting its primeval law system.

>>2796500
Islam is a shit barbaric religion and Muhammad was a paedophile.

Also
>Baathism
>failed

Except Assad is winning and the Sunni Islamists are basically dead as a movement.

>>2796659
What does Assad have anything to do with my post?

>>2796562
US/UK didn't provide any troops to Israel unlike the Arab states listed there. And the war was too short for any material aid to arrive or prove useful

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>>2796659
80% of your ancestors were probably paedophiles.

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>>2796652
>Islam was a tool to unite the Arabs. It's inherently nationalist.
>" An Arab is not superior to a non-Arab, and a non-Arab is not superior to an Arab except in good deeds" t. Muhammad(pbuh)

what did he mean by this?

>>2796679
Arab unity began with Islam. So nationalists and pan-Arabists have to use it as a POV. Has nothing to do with that hadith.

>>2796652
>Persians were butthurt at having their empire erased so they tried to coopt Islam.
I don't think you know your history. Persia was originally sunni, and was sunni until the 1500s when their turkish ruler forcefully converted the population to shiism because he had an inferiority complex towards the ottomans and wanted his own brand of Islam to compete. So he committed the biggest muslim genocide in history to accomplish this, while the rest of the Persian sunni's who refused to convert fled to nearby arab countries and assimilated into their identities. And at the same time he imported Arab shia to mix with the population and assimilate into Persia in order to solidify it as a shia stronghold.
Iran is still 10% sunni today, and Afghanistan is 80% sunni. So needless to say he didn't truly succeed in erasing sunnism from Persia.
>>2796699
If thats the case then why did pan-arabism die and pan-islamicism take its place?

>>2796679
Nationalism != supremacism

Muhammads entire casus belli was Roman incursion into Arab lands and the influence of roman theology on Nestorian Christianity. Muhammad was for all intents a purposes a Nestorian.

Any scholar who's done research knows Muhammad wasn't s prophet but just some nationalist figure who copy pasted an existing religion

>>2796711
Pan-Islamism is currently failing though

Egypt kicked out the Muslim brotherhood, Tunisian Islamists lost the election, Assad's Baathist government has retaken most of Syria and ISIS is for all intents and purposes defeated.

Tell me where pan-islamism is on the rise?

>>2796711
Since when did pan-Islamism take precedence over pan-Arab movements on any scale, ever? Give me one global political example of successful pan-Islamism that isn't linked to political terrorists.

>>2796755
He'll probably mention Saudi Arabia, but they only exist cause of western backing. The entire gulf would have been made into Saddam's wet dream splooge in 1991 if it weren't for America saving Saudi Arabia.

Saudis are basically US puppets.

>>2796747
>Egypt kicked out the Muslim brotherhood
Through a military coup. Meanwhile the muslim brotherhood was elected by the people.
>Tunisian Islamists lost the election
Not the middle east
>Assad's Baathist government has retaken most of Syria and ISIS is for all intents and purposes defeated.
ISIS kills muslims more than any other group. How are they pan-islamist?
As for Assad, he is backed and owned by an islamic theocracy, who's supreme leader has repeatedly said he only supports Assad in order to bring stability to Syria, and plans to make Assad step down after stability is brought to Syria in favor of a government elected by the people, much like what is happening in Iraq today.

>>2796770
Tunisia is part of the Arab world which is what we're discussing.

Morsi barely one more than a third of votes in first round voting and only got 51% in second round. And that's besides the point given that the MB have been eradicated from Egypt and they're not coming back.

And Assad regardless of who's backing him is a secular nationalist and he's firmly in charge of most of Syria.

And ISIS is no different to other rebel groups, they've all been pretty much dealt a death blow. Only Idlib remains and it will be cleaned out this year.

Pan-islamism in the Arab world is on the retreat, if not a route, there's no way it's on the rise.

>>2796767
Saudi Arabia is ruled by secular monarchs who are US puppets and are promoting US and Israeli interests by creating sectarian conflicts in other countries who are getting closer with Iran due to their pan islamic message.
>>2796755
Try every middle eastern country where their monarchs/dictators are no longer in power or where they had to give into islamist demands in order to stay in power.
>>2796786
There is no "arab" world. Its the islamic world, and Tunisia is too far separated from middle eastern politics to be relevant to middle eastern affairs. And Tunisians don't even identify as Arabs regardless they identify as Berbers.
>And Assad regardless of who's backing him is a secular nationalist and he's firmly in charge of most of Syria.
Assad is a puppet of Iran, who only cares about not being gadaffi'd by the Syrian people. He doesn't own Syria kek. Iran does. After Syria stabilizes and Assad has outlived his usefulness they're going to become the next Islamic republic.
>Pan-islamism in the Arab world is on the retreat, if not a route, there's no way it's on the rise.
Again there is no arab world. It's the Islamic world. And don't worry, Islam has been on the rise since the creation of Israel, and foreign powers trying to control muslim land.
Which is why to combat this the west spends all their efforts in trying to create sectarian division in order to keep pan islamism from defeating them.

>>2796845
There's the world where Arabic is the primary spoken language, which has cultural and political similarities.

Do you get mad at terms like Anglosphere or Francafrique?

Don't be a niggerfaggot.

>>2796845
>Saudis are secular
>there is no Arab world
>Tunisians are berber
>Assad will be replaced by Islamic republic

How many layers of hasbara are you on? Which Sunnistan shithole are you from, Turkey or Pakistan? People like you always feel excluded from Arab nationalism so you buy into the "Islamic identity" thing.

>>2796872
too late

There's a Palestinian girl I know that I want to FUUUCK

>>2796913
Me too, I know like 3. They're kawaii af but reject me. It almost makes me glad Israel bombs them.

Pallies are shit people tbqh, it's just Jews are a million times worse.

>>2796659
All Ba'ath countries are shit

>>2796872
Culturally the entire muslim world is the same.
Pre islamic arabian culture was 100% different than it was today, and cultures in the levant, north africa, arabian peninsula, persia, mesopotamia, etc were all different.
>>2796896
Have you ever been to Saudi Arabia? Saudi government is secular. They have areas that westerners live in where sharia law is not enforced. And the government doesn't give a fuck if you have alcohol in your home or what you do.
In fact they're the ones who criticize Iran for being Islamists and trying to spread Islamism to other middle eastern countries.
Saudi government is secular. The people are not.

And I am an international student from Saudi Arabia.
The only people who are pan arabists are all secularists who hate Islam.
Muslims are pan islamist as it is a core belief in being a muslim.

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nationalism especially arab nationalism is a meme, pan islamism now on another hand...

>>2796679
Sorry but this is untrue, Muhammad's policy and islam's view on these things is that nationalism is haram and that the only form of pride should be in your own good deeds to god and that all people are equal no matter what and only differ in how much good deeds they did in their lives.

So in general, Islam abhors nationalism.

>>2795262
Kind of a stupid line of argument desu, you could just as well argue Western nationalism is illegitimate because you're using a Latin script half-imposed on you by an alien culture to communicate.

>>2796955
You don't have to hate Islam to be a pan-arabist you fuck.

Your country is literally the #1 exporter of radical jihadists. All the 9/11 hijackers came from your country, and you use cranes to hang homosexuals and behead them. Sorry people recognize you for the 6th century barbarian you are and want to build a country on a foundation other than your barbarism.

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>>2795262
>Arab nationalism
I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you’re referring to as Arabs are in fact, phoenicians , or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, 'not Saudi Barbarians'.

>>2798779
>Your country is literally the #1 exporter of radical jihadists.

That's Tunisia, not Saudi Arabia

>>2798779
>you use cranes to hang homosexuals and behead them

Are you implying there is anything wrong with this? If you do, than go back to tumblr.

>>2798719
>implying there aren't nationalists trying to revive runic scripts