Ottoman thread

yeah bro ottomans and whatever link me this sexy ass tiger

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This was supposed to be the OP pic btw

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>>2774872
I do believe having read somewhere that the Ottoman empire, for its many flaws, did keep an active eye on making sure they didn't tax more than the average citizen could cough up. This however did not stop them from asking higher taxes from the Dhimma.

>>2774882
The artist is @Tacklebawks on twitter

>>2774905
Do you know how much autonomy regional governors had? Did they just enforce laws from the sultan or did they run their regions based on their old customs?

Great potential for a tread if you didn't use furry shit

>>2774923
It was a mistake, see >>2774901

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>>2774872
Death to all barafags.

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>>2774922
I think it depends on the compatibility/comparability of the region's culture and faith to that of the Sunni Ottoman state.

The Egyptian region retained a good but of its autonomy after being incorporated into the Ottoman empire. The Mamluks there stayed as the ruling class

Pic semi-related

>>2774939
????????????????

>>2774939
So were the Christian provinces given ottoman governors while the Muslim provinces weren't?

>>2774954
The Orthodox christian provinces were a mixed bag if any. Orthodox christians in the empire were kept reeled in by the patriarch of Istanbul, which the Ottomans kept around for excactly that reason. Some Orthodox communities were lead by Orthodox priests called Prokritoi or Dimogerontes, loyal to the Orthodox patriarch of Istanbul (Who was loyal to the Ottoman empire) while other communities did recieve ottoman governors

>>2774971
Do note that Prokritoi/Dimogerontes is the greek word for these priestly leaders, I do believe that other Orthodox nations in the empire had their respective words for this position aswell.

>>2774971
>>2774975
Did they allow existing jurisprudence to stay intact, or was law throughout the whole empire unified?

>>2774939
What in heavens is going on here.

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>>2775001
I'm not quite beefed up on lawgiving within the Ottoman empire, sadly.

I'm going to make a shot in the dark here, but I think the laws gently shifted around with the coming and going of Sultans, each having their own oppinion on the laws of minorities in the empire, Ottoman laws and Islamic law.

>>2775033
Did the Ottoman army draw from Muslim and Christian populations equally, or were they predisposed to the former? I know in the late Empire they avoided using Christian soldiers, but I can't imagine them not using them early on when the vast majority of the population was Christian

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>>2775063
I think the majority in the army was Muslim, but there were certainly some Christian elements. The Janissaries were practically all Christian-child-abductions converted into Sunni Muslim Supersoldiers.

>>2774872

>ottocuck is a bara furfag

WHY IS THIS NOT SURPRISING

>>2775201
I don't normally post about the ottomans, I just found a book about them in my local bookstore

>>2774872
Yep, also, they were notably fair to the christians in the balkans, allowing churches and praying to go on, the state formally recognizing the leader of the orthodox church and recognizing his authority to a level unseens in most orthodox nations

a christian's main forms of oppression was slightly more taxation, not being a credible witness or jury in the courts, and not having access only to the most high level state positions

the (early) Ottoman Empire was well known for their social mobility of non-muslims and muslims alike based on merit, and having large amounts of non-muslims/minorities in important military and administrative occupations. however, the janissaries ended up going to shit in the later years

bump ngl

>>2775225
How much were the early wars against the Ottomans viewed as christians fighting Islam, and how much was it viewed as just another war?

>>2775225
>Yep, also, they were notably fair to the christians in the balkans, allowing churches and praying to go on, the state formally recognizing the leader of the orthodox church and recognizing his authority to a level unseens in most orthodox nations
>a christian's main forms of oppression was slightly more taxation, not being a credible witness or jury in the courts, and not having access only to the most high level state positions
>the (early) Ottoman Empire was well known for their social mobility of non-muslims and muslims alike based on merit, and having large amounts of non-muslims/minorities in important military and administrative occupations. however, the janissaries ended up going to shit in the later years

What a load if revisionist bs
>Ottoman abduction of Christian boys into Janisaries and forced conversion into Islam
>Jizya
>Hagia Sophia turned into an abomination
>Abduction, enslavement, and rape of countless women and girls
>not allowed to build or repair Churches, punishable by death
>Islamic persecutions of Christians, especially the Armenian Genocide

You're a fool.

>>2775310
>Ottoman abduction of Christian boys into Janisaries and forced conversion into Islam
Oh shit, they forcibly made christian children wealthy, well educated, high position aristocrats, judges and elite military
>Jizya
I'll give you that.
>Hagia Sophia turned into an abomination
Muh hagia sophia. Implying anyone was butthurt about a mosque, used-to-be-a-christian-basilica, an infinity away from their village, if they'd ever heard about it, that is
>Abduction, enslavement, and rape of countless women and girls
Like that's something unique in the case of the Ottomans
>>not allowed to build or repair Churches, punishable by death
Don't know anything about that so a'ight
>Islamic persecutions of Christians, especially the Armenian Genocide
The patriarchate was still active in constantinople and religious freedom was more or less protected with some limitations but whatever. I'll give you the Armenian Genocide, even though it happened during the dying throes of the Empire, in the 20th century.

>>2775310
>Ottoman abduction of Christian boys into Janisaries and forced conversion into Islam
aka ottomans give impoverished farm boys the chance to excel, and become infinitly more wealthy than their life would've been
>Jizya
yes, an additional tax for non-muslims which is mentioned above
>Hagia Sophia turned into an abomination
subjective, i prefer the basilica but the ottomans hardly did much to actually hurt it
>Abduction, enslavement, and rape of countless women and girls
like the hold world during their period
>not allowed to build or repair Churches, punishable by death
im nearly certain that christians were able to build/repair churches, and even if not, it's not like the ottomans actually tore many down
>Islamic persecutions of Christians, especially the Armenian Genocide
the armenian genocide was at the crumbling end of the ottoman empire, this was an outlier, and was extremely rare to see such a thing

>>2775293
>How much were the early wars against the Ottomans viewed as christians fighting Islam, and how much was it viewed as just another war?
i can imagine it was a holy war of sorts, as the ottomans were created very shortly after the crusades, and were creeping into byzantine territory very early

>>2775422
>>2775512
>abducting children is okay if we give them lots of money

>>2775543
from a utilitarian standpoint, obviously
it's not like human tribute was a new idea

>>2775543
>at least I stayed a land-working impoverished farm boy, during the late middle ages. Fuck social mobility. Imma churn butter!

>>2775422
>Like that's something unique in the case of the Ottomans

i.e it's cool when the Vikings, Mongols, Spaniards, Brits/French etc etc do it but it's the greatest sin in all of history when we do it.

This board is so biased to the Ottoman Empire just because we conquered swathes of Europe and oppressed some people for a few centuries. Get over it.

>>2774922
Yeah they usually congregated in areas which were govorned by different religious rule corresponding with the majority group of the area, although state laws took precidence and largely favoured islam. Some people think this allowed the fall of the ottoman empire as there was a lack of unified national identity.

>>2775201
Yo this is a place of sharing knowledge and laughing at pol, go look at a ww2 thread dude, plenty of tanky/wehraboo arguments there you can join.

>>2775225
There's a grain of truth in both the idea of opression and revisionism creating that.

The ruling class was islamic, of course there was imbalance. But the Christian unrest was also due to other empires seeking to undermine ottoman power.
Eventually russia even used it as an excuse to invade the heavily orthodox region of chechenya.

>>2775310
Dude calm your tiddies, moral relativity.
Within that society it was okay.
Even slaves were given land and sheit when they came of a certain age. They were often considered near lordship when they returned to their poor af hometown.

>>2775310
The armenian genocide stems from european secular nationalism. Turks wanted what europeans also tried to achieve: a homogenous society through force and violence and oppression

>>2775310
The Armenian genocide was perpetrated by the extremely secular and nationalistic Young Turk government that had previously deposed the traditional order. You don't know what you're talking about.

>>2775559
>we

You're a Turk I presume? Can you really claim to be "the Ottomans"? The ruling dynasty was Turkish but the empire was multi-ethnic as fuck and the majority of its soldiers and government officials were not Turks. In fact the Rumelia portion of the empire came to be the richest and most vital with Anatolia being little more than a manpower vault. In its last days it was led by an Albanian.

the main reason they got left behind is because how they governed things
they dont overtaxate the right muslim, just anyone else

the monarch wasnt absolute? what?
ever heard of sending the silk cord to ppl with power who lost the trust of the sultan? meaning he will be strangled to death by eunuchs

they never had proper feudalism either, since land wasnt inherited, local landlords were interested in exploiting their lease to the maximum

it was a typical backwards middle eastern islamic shithole with the added flavor of turkish culture

>>2776307
Not the guy your replied to but yes the ottomans were our ancestors also a large part of the army called the sipahis were turks.
Besides being turk isn't about genetics its about your cultural identity as a turk.

>>2776367
Nigger ever part of land had a certain amount of taxes that the tax farmer was allowed to tax, ofcourse corruption was a thing but till the late 16th century it wasn't a very big problem.

>>2776409
oh thats ok then, only 400years of backwardness

>>2775001
>>2775033
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millet_(Ottoman_Empire)

A lot of balkan highschool education ITT, some misconceptions about Ottomans, they portray the jannisary/devshirme abductions more evil than they acutallly were but ironically they condone a lot of the ottoman millet system thing.

Ottoman's gave less rights to Christians even compared to sharia and devshirme was not 100% brutal abduction as you portray them to be, many jannisaries and civil servants did not forget their origin or their parents, protected them, you had people going willingly into the devshirme system etc.


I guess turks take our christian boys is a better to put on history books than talk about harsher than sharia Ottoman laws that restrict alcohol usage and slave ownership for christians

>>2776418
Oh tell me which country at was so enlightened ahead of its time in the 16th century.
I bet you're a retarded byzboo or something like that.

>>2776457
Many slaves merchants were armenians, greeks and jews though.
Also how much restriction are we talking about?
Also as far as I know you could get wine everywhere.

>>2776472
Ottoman empire forced Christians to register their slaves in early 16th century and then banned christians to owning any kind of slave muslim or non muslim, using the registry itself to apply the law.

In sharia Christians are allowed to have non muslim slaves, not in Ottoland though.
Ironically they threated their devshirme far better than what balkanfags portray.

>>2776459
>enlightened ahead of its time in the 16th century

im not sure if this is bait or mehmet never heard of the renaissance

>>2776489
>copying greek and roman statues is enlightment now

There was no difference between the ottomans and other european powers till the enlightment started you ignorant faggot.

>>2775422
>>2775512
you both forgot the part where they castrated eastern euros to turn them into soldiers / bureaucrats

>>2777805
The Devshirme weren't castrated you illiterate cunt.

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>>2775001
ottoman law was codified by Suleiman the magnificent firstly a common mis-conception is that the ottomans abandoned Islamic law for roman law, what actually happened is they went thru roman law books and removed all the laws that contradicted the sharia and lefted those that agreed the misconception arises from the fact that many roman and islamic laws are the same, so older western historians assumed that they had chucked out the sharia. secondly christen communities namely the Armenians but others as well were allowed to keep their own laws as long as they didn't rebel. thridly the ottoman followed and were the patrons of the hanif school the hanfi method of finding Islamic laws is as follows quran, sunnah(the sayings practices and tacit approval of Mohammed) consensus of the companions of Mohammed, consensus of the scholars, analogical reasoning and urf(local laws and customs)

>>2774872
that drawing doesn't make sense, why would the tiger be dealing with both cocaine AND diamonds, surely they would be better off specializing with 1 since either 1 would be incredibly difficult and risky to begin with

>>2775063
mostly muslim.s one of the terms of jizya is that the Islamic government protects you from foreign threats and wont conscript you in return u pay a little extra. that being said there is nothing stopping a patriotic christen lord from helping out with his retainers.

>>2778136
Do you know how hard the Ottomans tried to convert Christians to Islam? I've heard they only tried to convert the people near the borders to secure them, but I don't know how accurate that is

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>>2778166
the government didn't have a direct hand in conversion, except under sultan abdulhamid 2 in the death tones, sufi taqia took on that job and expediences some victories in Bulgaria and Bosnia