Philippe Pétain

>>2760808
Fantastic commander, horrible politician

he did nothing wrong

>>2760808
Outstanding in WW1, turned into a traitor in WW2.

Frog here, he's considered by most of frenchman as a traitor and an antisemite, but some of us think that he saved France not only in WWI (with Verdun) but in WWII, being the only one who accepted the defeat of France and the only one protecting the french people, he made good stuff that we still use here (healthcare and socialcare).
De Gaulle and him saved France together during WWII, one fighting the enemy, of protecting the people of France

>lived long enough
>became villain
BRAVO NOLAN
R
A
V
O

fuck the frogs desu they dont deserve him

>>2761216
Is le Pen compared to him?

>>2760808
Depends. Tends to be generally seen with two facets: the Maréchal, the savior of Verdun and France, and the other being Vichy Pétain, the one that surrendered and surrendered a part of our population to the Nazis.

Can't say I have much of an opinion on him. 's much as I can believe he tried to do what he felt was best for France at the time, throwing under the bus our own population even if under occupation is a pretty tough pill to swallow.

>>2761216
American here. I've never heard that side of the story, usually it's the black-or-white "he's evil" or "he dindu nuffin".

Hero turned reluctant villain by circumstance.

He should have been put to death for his own legacys sake.Why keep him alive just to make him soil himself at old age? The death sentence should be a fear for young men, not old

France would've taken even more unecessary losses had they never surrendered.Vichy France was the best realistic outcome of French particiaption in WW2.

>>2761427
I really hope not.

>>2761525
I heard he tried to remove the softness from French sociaty. The thing that has appeared after WWI and was poisoning French sociaty since then.

>>2760808

Un collaborateur.

Viva la france.

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>>2762721
>Viva

>>2762474
>Vichy France was the best realistic outcome of French particiaption in WW2.

yeah, and then they just ended up fighting for their kraut overlords and losing any little sovereignty they had left.

I think Vichy initially made a fair degree of sense for the French. The French had lost, and their homeland was going to be occupied. Their options were either to fight on from the colonies, or to accept some form of collaboration, and without this collaboration mainland France would be occupied much more harshly than it already was. So Petain had a difficult choice, and he chose collaboration, which I think in theory was the right one - even if the fact that they actually collaborated so readily about all sorts of nasty things is a blow against him. But when collaboration stopped making sense - when the Germans invaded the free zone in Case Anton and it was clear that they were losing the war - he should have fled to French North Africa and ordered French troops to resist and the French fleet to try to make a run for it. If he had done that, there would be the occasional historian talking about his complicity with deporting the Jews and stuff like that, but he really would be remembered as the "shield of France", who took a pragmatic approach and did his best to protect France from the Germans, and when he couldn't do that any more he at risk to himself joined the Allied cause and helped shorten the war. Instead he chose to continue to collaborate with the Germans despite it being obvious that they were losing and he got remembered as a villain. A label that I ultimately agree with because of his conduct in such regards.

The British were also the villains for attacking the French fleet at Mers-el-Kebir which was stupid for them too. If they hadn't done that then French Africa might have defected to the Allies, and everybody would have had the best of all worlds; mainland France which is occupied relatively leniently and French Africa and possibly the French Navy on the allied side, which unironically might have shortened the length of the war a year. The Anglos played themselves.

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>>2761506

>>2760808
He was a hero who lived long enough to see himself become the villain

>>2761216
>but some of us
Yeah nah, the overwhelming consensus is that he was a WW1 hero turned traitor.

>>2760808
Hero

>>2762953
you just have to convert "some of us" to "what people on 4chan think"