Is demanding payment for medical assisstance morally bad?

>>2760777

No, but medicine is one of the few areas of the economy where socialism works better than capitalism.

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>>2760777
Not at all.

Any good or service should be compensated for.

Sometimes outlaws need doctors. And sometimes doctors need outlaws. It's the way of the world.

Fixing anyone for anything regardless of behavior or contributor status demands abuse.

Chicago is above 200 shootings for 2017 right now. Nearing 250 with a quickness. Now the majority are involved in illegal drug trafficking and violence.

Why on earth should their wounds be tended for free?

>>2760777
No, but the costs need to be distributed to prevent them from being ruinous, which is why we have insurance or universal healthcare. Insurance does an awful job of it though, as evidenced by the fact that the US pays a greater portion of its GDP in tax subsidies for insurance companies than most countries pay in total for their healthcare system, and individuals still have to purchase policies from those companies or else pay even more in taxes. And then those people still aren't protected from financial ruin due to stop-loss clauses in their insurance policies.

>>2760821
>pic
holy shit, what was this lecture about?

>>2760777
It might very well be. Considering there are some people who owns these corporations who gain money from a whole range of desperate people taking loans to save their lives, ironically damaging their own health working for this money.

Medical assistance should not be owned as a tool to gain money to some few, but rather serve to help many. Health is a big deal.

>>2760777

I'm a paramedic with 20 years experience in EMS and I can tell you that I have never worked, nor would I ever work for free.

>>2760858
Das Gespenst des Autismus

>>2760865
$14/hour isn't payment, it's lunch money. The question is about corporate profits. Obviously no one expects employees in healthcare and related services to starve or else it couldn't exist.

americans should pay, rest of the world shouldnt

>>2760858
Lol it was about Marxism and related conditions

>>2760887
Crucify yourself citizen

Healthcare is basically free in the united States the collections agencies the emergency rooms send after you basically give up after a year. Sometimes you can haggle the debt down to like 5% of the original bill. The only debts that have any real staying power are the student loans. Don't tell anyone though.

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>>2760865
>not working only to save people
you are what is wrong with capitalism

>>2760777
I'd say no, but I do think that a nation should be able to collectively pay for medical services so it's available for everyone
>inb4 commie
>inb4 doesn't work
that isn't to say that current models are perfect, nor am I a smart person who has the answers. I just think it's totally possible for us to perfect it

>>2760858
Marxism & Autism

Socialized medical systems ignore the fact that the problem with the system is cost. The key to creating a better healthcare system is the same as all economic fields: lower the costs by advancing technology to the point where the average Joe can afford it without insurance. The removal of people from paying their healthcare costs directly is what led to these disastrous expenses for treatment that really does not cost the hospital that much to administer. There was a time many decades ago in the US where you could pay your doctor in cash for the treatment you received and when it was so direct you understood why each thing cost what it did and it kept the prices as equilibrium and at a sustainable rate. We need to let market forces dictate how we will run our healthcare system again and let these fat slugs be unable to get insurance unless they trim it down.

>>2761442
it doesn't proove good to US so far

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>>2761442
Give me 10000 gozillion dollars or me and every other doctor will let you die.

Its a free market bro go bankrupt or die not my problem

Is demanding that doctors, nurses work for you for free and give you expensive medicine for free morally bad?

>>2761636
When the >go bankrupt and die philosophy leads to more people going bankrupt and dying than is worth it, what reason do we keep government around for?

>>2760777 >>2760821
You bet, it is criminal.

What is really sick is the industry leaders value their bottom line more than the well being and life of people.

By the time we get to the 24 century we might have effective treatments, Star Trek will be long gone by that time. It is not working, yet we have had this infrastructure, the cancer establishment imposed over this country for the last 50 years. It is a fund raising machine. The ACS takes in 400 million dollars a year. What are they doing with it? Where are the treatments? Where are the cures? Where is the good research? They are way way way out, far, drifting out to sea in terms of anything approaching human cancer. We have to re-orientate ourselves around the actual patient in front of you. The only thing that matters in cancer or any other disease.

Instead we have this very abstract, academic, cruel, inhuman system which is now going to be forced down our throats by government decree.

We have had 50 years of American Cancer Society (ACS) brainwashing on the question of cancer, so most people out there believe we are making progress in the war on cancer. We are not, we are losing the war. The statistics...

If you look at the board of directors of major hospitals you will find that the drug industry has a dominant position on that board. One company in particular, Bristol Myers, which produces between 40 -50% of all the chemotherapy in the world, and they have top positions at major hospitals.

http://www.whale.to/c/moss.html

>>2760777 >>2761687

Professional Code of Conduct for Physicians
(“Berufsordnung für Ärzte”)

A large part of the regulations are codified in the Professional Code of Conduct for Physicians

The Hippocratic Oath, the core guidance to a physician’s conduct, states famously:

Free Profession – Not a Business

The model code of conduct codifies the most important duties of the physician. Some of these relate to ethics and morality, i.e. that the doctor is obligated to carry out his profession in a conscientious manner. Paragraph 1, Section 1, Sentence 1 stipulates that the medical profession is not a business but a free profession. That means that the main objective of the physician may not be devoted to generating the largest possible financial profit but to healing patients and safeguarding public health. Accordingly, physicians may never be bound by the directives of non-physicians in connection with medical decisions. Even though there is growing competition among physicians, the profession is not designed to maximize profits

>>2761706
>>2760777

Did you know that before 1973 it was illegal in the US to profit off of health care. The Health Maintenance Organization Act of 1973 passed by Nixon changed everything

>the law Nixon mandated also included clauses that encouraged medical providers to not CURE afflictions, but to PROLONG them by only treating the symptoms. There’s no money to be made in CURING sickness.

Is the health insurance business a racket? Yes, literally. And this is why the shameless pandering to robber baron corporations posing as “health providers” is such an egregious … and obvious … tactic to do nothing more than plump up insurance company profits.

the downfall of the American health insurance system falls squarely on the shoulders of former President Richard M. Nixon.

In 1973, Nixon did a personal favor for his friend and campaign financier, Edgar Kaiser, then president and chairman of Kaiser-Permanente. Nixon signed into law, the Health Maintenance Organization Act of 1973, in which medical insurance agencies, hospitals, clinics and even doctors, could begin functioning as for-profit business entities instead of the service organizations they were intended to be

>>2761648
>medicine
>expensive
it costs peanuts to produce that stuff

>>2761745
R and D runs into the billions ya chucklefuck.

Most prescription medicines are a meme though.

>>2760777
Pic unrelated, I hope.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caduceus_as_a_symbol_of_medicine

>>2761754
R & D is peanuts. getting FDA approval (government extortion) is where the shit is

the cost is hyperinflated by useless greedy speculators/investors and the FDA that set expensive trials

before the Rockefeller/Nixon/Kissinger depopulation policies, new revolutionary drugs like penicillin, aspirin were given to the people right away and for cheap, no expensive FDA clinical trials

consider the fact that the FDA setup red-tape and expensive phased clinical trials to delay and discourage new treatments

Because of drug safety issues raised by thalidomide in Europe, Congress had passed the Drug Efficacy Amendment to the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act in 1962.

the FDA then red-taped and hindered any r & d through draconic regulation requiring $1 billion in clinical trials as a barrier erected by the FDA to approve it any therapy.

THE FDA also thinks a specific number of rat turds and meat is acceptable in your food.

States were already handling food and drug safety before the FDA was created. The FDA serves to protect pharmaceutical monopolies through multi-million dollar, decade long approval processes.


Seriously, don't cheerlead for the FDA. They need to go.

>>2761806

why and how did the FDA approve the non-therapeutic, risky and lifethreatening, sex reassignment surgery and therapy as a standard treatment for those gender dysphoria mental disorder?

why and how did the FDA approve the risky and lifethreatening, non-therapeutic circumcision of male infants as a standard treatment in newborns?

Unwilling parents are even persuaded by doctors to have non-therapeutic circumcision of their newborn male children.

and why does the FDA deny, reject, and disapprove of life-saving, therapeutic cancer treatments that are practiced in other countries?


FDA approves circumcision clamps, tools etc

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/non-surgical-male-circumcision-device-approved-for-use-in-adolescents-by-the-world-health-organization-300272911.html

FDA rejects laser/cryoablation/hyperthermia/immunotherapy tools for cancer

>>2761829

Soft Genocide Measures Promoted by American Eugenics & Planned Parenthood to reduce US population in 1969.

anti-fertility chemicals in the water, air, food

Modify tax policies
Postpone or avoid marriage (via master degree job requirements, economic crisis)

Encourage increased homosexuality
Educate for family limitation
Fertility control agents in water supply
Encourage women to work
Reduce/eliminate paid maternity leave
Reduce/eliminate social benefits

Chronic Depression (via crime rates, economic crisis, social isolation)
Require women to work and provide few child care facilities
Limit/eliminate publicly-financed medical care, scholarships, housing, loans and subsidies to families with more than N children.
Encourage increased homosexuality
Compulsory education of children

http://jaffememo.com/full-list-of-population-control-measures-listed-on-the-jaffe-memo/62.htm

>>2761727


The Genocide, Eugenics and Birth Control movements were forced to completely re-make themselves after the Holocaust.

ie: away from hard genocide, to soft genocide

Returning to the root Malthusian hysteria, they repackaged their agenda as based on ‘over-population.’ Many, if not most, of the measures entertained prior to the Holocaust remained on the table for consideration. Only the reasons for implementing those measures were changed. Thus, in the 1950s and 1960s, calls for ‘population control’ increased in frequency and volume. See Paul Ehrlich’s “The Population Bomb” as one example that made a dent in popular opinion.

But population control advocates understood that the scope of the problem they were presenting required government action at all levels. Thus, Richard Nixon was prompted to enact population control legislation (still in force today). In 1972, Nixon would call for a commission to ‘study’ the problem and present recommendations. This is known as the Rockefeller Commission Report.

The two names most prominently listed on the Jaffe Memo are Bernard Berelson and Frederick Jaffe, the one responsible for the memo itself. These two same individuals were members of the Rockefeller Commission. Berelson was a full commissioner, while Jaffe was listed as a ‘special consultant.

http://jaffememo.com/the-memo-in-context

>>2761867
Wouldn't the agenda be dead now? The Malthusianic hysteria is over and nowadays we have exactely opposite problem: plummeting birth rates.

>>2761867
In 1971, when President Richard M. Nixon initiated the War on Cancer, the average person had a 1 in 10 risk of developing cancer in his or her lifetime. Today, that's changed – for the worse. The risk as of 2005 is 1 in 2.

this is the major cause of rapid decline in western populations


cancer is now as common as the flu, that is intentional. the existing cures for cancer are intentionally suppressed.

the great culling/poisoning orchestrated by CIA, CFR, etc has led to dramatic population declines. the genocide machine is being refueled by new immigrants to pack into the poison chambers

>>2761806
Ancap plz go
FDA is a minor cost in the overall scheme of developing new drugs

>>2761876
no, the plummeting birth rates and increase in homosex and diseases is their success. the remaking of global society is centered on population reduction. this is the focus of globalism. destruction of family, healthcare, economy. turning society into homosexuals and importing immigrants to experience the genocide of those they replaced (population replacement)

>>2761909
penicillin, aspirin were developed for almost "free" before the draconic FDA regulations. penicillin developers even rejected profit and gave it away for free since it was so cheap to develop and produce.

if it were done today. it would not be approved. if it would no one would afford penicillin

comprende pablo?

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>>2760777
Doctors need to eat too. So yeah, gotta compensate them for their time and labor - no way around that.

Whether you want to have them paid by the collective public or by individuals is another question.


Now, in the hypothetical situation where you find someone bleeding out, and want to charge them to use your first aid kit before you'll hand it over, that's another thing. I suppose demanding compensation for saving their life afterwards isn't too nefarious, particularly if all you ask for is to be compensated for the loss of the first aid kit (which are generally tiny one-shot deals). But letting them die because they wouldn't fork over a couple of bucks, that's another thing, given your loss set against theirs.

Doctors, however, are not that situation writ large, particularly in nations where emergency care is free, or at least, the payment is not excised until after you're stabilized.

>>2761927
>cutting edge 21st century drugs designed to regulate the endocrine system or the neurotransmitters of the brain are as easy to develop penicillin at the turn of the last century
The first internal combustion engines were built in somebody's metal working shop too. Go back to /r/ancapistan

>>2760777
>Most current universal health care systems were implemented in the period following the Second World War as a process of deliberate health care reform, intended to make health care available to all, in the spirit of Article 25 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights of 1948, signed by every country doing so. The US did not ratify the social and economic rights sections, including Article 25's right to health.

>Article 25 of the United Nations' Universal Declaration of Human Rights 1948 states that "Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services." The Universal Declaration makes additional accommodations for security in case of physical debilitation or disability, and makes special mention of care given to those in motherhood or childhood.[3]


>>2761934
doctors dont starve
if they care about money they should become used car salesmen instead
>>2761706

>>2761947
>doctors dont starve
They would if no one paid them.

Plus the survival rate would kinda suck if all the doctors were living on the streets. I mean you could pay them in room and board, but that's still payment.

Whether they are paid too much is another question.

>>2761913
>Sorry, but that ebin gelebist conspiracy doesn't make sense, if they wanted to prevent overpopulation they'll focus on Oriental counties not on West, where policies to support feritility are pursued

>>2761939
learn2his

most drugs are actually older than you think
thyroxine/Levothyroxine drug regulates the endocrine system used for centuries

>>2761957
Um sweetie, have you forgotten about China's one child policy?

>>2761964
At the same time, Japan isn't particularly homosex happy, isn't hardly taking in any immigrants, isn't involved in any wars, or particularly suffering from any diseases, and is still suffering from rapid population loss.

>>2761964
The one they recently cancelled?

>>2760821

>sometimes doctors need outlaws

wat

>>2761973
>>2761845
>Japan isn't particularly
>Postpone or avoid marriage (via master degree job requirements, economic crisis)
>Encourage women to work
>Modify tax policies
>Reduce/eliminate social benefits
>Chronic Depression (via job instability,hostile work environment and culture, economic crisis, social isolation)
>Require women to work and provide few child care facilities
>Compulsory education of children

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>>2762252
Was replying more to: >>2761913 but the problem with >>2762252 is all those things were either rolling in or already a matter of fact, well before 1969.

Though I'd be more inclined to agree with >>2761727. Like so many things we accept as a matter of fact now, there were good reasons they used to be almost universally illegal.

no but dropping coverage for millions of people because super common things are now pre-existing conditions is
fucking acne is now a pre-existing condition
while congress and their staff keeps full coverage unlike the people

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>>2760821

Because they are Humans and you shouldnt Place a pricetag on Human lifes.

>>2762316
if you look at the history of healthcare in US, it was provided for free for most of the history of the US.

for example, in late 1800s and early, Dr William Coley treated thousands of cancer patients free of charge, most being impoverished lower east siders of NYC. he tracked down patients in the slums, to understand the immune reaction of Coley's Toxins. He cured countless cancer patients with immunotherapy. The hospital he worked for would become Sloan Kettering.

Dr Ron Paul even mentions that he treated for free or at very low cost since this was the standard practice with most doctors, prior to Nixon's healthcare reform (part of a population reduction agenda)

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>>2762414
Of course, human lives are only as valuable as I decide them to be.

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>>2762442

But what gives you the authority to decide for anyone else besides yourself?

>>2762442
why do you respect and honor the artificially inflated (monetary) value of Bill Gates and the oligarchs over yourself and your peers?

>>2762455
Because I am the unique one and everything is my property (I just have yet to lay my claim upon it)

>>2762461
I don't, were I able I would kill Gate's and bring his fortune back to it's rightful owner. I lack that capacity at the moment and so must make do with what I have and can readily obtain.

>>2762463

Well but uniqueness isnt necessarily a sufficient reason. And at lease you should proove that everybody else isnt

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>>2760777
>>2760777
Reminder that the Caduceus (winged rod with 2 snakes) is a symbol of Hermes/Mercury, and is associated with commerce and new interchange (as it's the symbol of the herald).

The Rod of Asklepios (no wings, 1 snake) is the proper symbol of medicine, and Americans are the only ones ignorant enough to keep making this mistake today.

>>2762476

this always rustles my jimmies. I never figured it out wether it was just a mistake or it had a reason behind it

>>2762471
You start back in the fright of others because you think you see beside them the ghost of "right"

He that has might has "right". Am I to submit myself to the lord's will, No. Then why should I submit myself to another's will unless It is my will, and neither should anyone else submit to another's will unless it is their will. All things are nothing to me.

>>2762501

>neither yould anyone else submit to anothers will unless its their will

>everything is my property

well i think you have to choose one here, or am i mistaken?

>>2762424

Dr Ron Paul talks about his work at free hospitals and how everything worked great.

Paul replied:

"I practiced medicine before we had monopolies at hospital. And the churches took care of them. We never turned anybody away from the hospital. The reason the cost is so high is It becomes a special interest, it cow-tows to the insurance companies and then the drug companies."

http://thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/item/10000-practicing-the-medicine-he-preaches-the-free-market-charity-of-ron-paul

only a barbaric, cannibalistic society would seek profit from healthcare

>>2762523
Key word here being should, if individuals would follow another's will that is their own (misguided choice) If someone submits himself to my will than I may tell him not to or use or abuse his trust or subservience in me.

>>2762536

well this would enable a system where it would be profitable to misguide fellow human beeings. Humans would be degraded to means to achieve something wouldnt it?

>>2762529
due to vested deep state corporate genocidal interests any attempt at universal, affordable healthcare in burgerland is sabotaged and destroyed

many states have passed laws for single-payer and all failed to implement the laws due to the deep state


>Massachusetts passed a universal healthcare program in 1986, but deep state sabotage resulted in its repeal before the legislation could be enacted

>New York State has been attempting passage of the New York Health Act, which would establish a statewide single-payer health plan, since 1992. The New York Health Act passed the Assembly three times: once in 1992 and again in 2015 and 2016, but did not advance through the Senate after referrals to the Health Committee.

>California attempted passage of a single-payer bill as early as 1994,[62] and the first successful passages of legislation through the California State Legislature, SB 840 or "The California Universal Healthcare Act" (authored by Sheila Kuehl), occurred in 2006 and again in 2008.[63] Both times, Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger vetoed the bill

In 2009, the Hawaii state legislature passed a single-payer healthcare bill that was vetoed by Republican Governor Linda Lingle. While the veto was overridden by the legislature, the bill was not implemented

>Vermont canceled its plan for single-payer health care

>The Minnesota Health Act passed to establish a statewide single-payer health plan but was

>>2762558
> this would enable a system where it would be profitable to misguide fellow human beeings

Isn't this already the case though?

>>2762576

Well yes, but the Question is wheter it is desireable of not? If not, it might be morally bad.

>>2762589
The only morals I follow are my own, following the morals of god or society is merely following someone else's illusion. I follow my own sense of justice.

>>2762608

allright then. That too is debatable but what does your sense of justice really tells you? Doesnt it sounds fair to pay a reasonable amount of money to make sure everyone you love is able to get goot healthcare if they needed to? Chances are, that one of your loved ones will face a illness which may be too expensive to treat just by yourself or your friends.

>>2762645
Fair yes but considering the number of people in the country I would rather they pay and I not, but yes on topic, coming from Australia our public health system is amazing and much cheaper then the american system so I would rather pay into that then risk tax evasion.

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>>2762692

Most people in Germany dont even understand the question wheter somebody would be against public health or not because we always had it. It was a pleasant discussion with you Ausfag, stay safe

>>2762476
Isn't the continued use of it as a medical symbol enough to mean it's now a medical symbol though

>>2760804
Not at all. Socialism is why we have ridiculously expensive drug costs, not capitalism.

>>2764084
>Socialism is why we have ridiculously expensive drug costs
Patents are socialism now?

>>2764528
Patents have already expired on many expensive drugs; the reason they're expensive is because the FDA grants indefinite monopolies to corporations to manufacture certain drugs.

>>2764084
Charging several hundred for something cost at most 6$ to make, is socialism?

>>2764569
That's not socialism thats cronyism

>>2764578
When the government stifles free trade so that may happen, yes.
>>2764586
It's done under the guise of "protecting American consumers". It may not be true socialism, but it's a common side-effect of it.

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>>2760777
No, but refusing to give at least basic assistance due to one not being able to pay is.

>>2762918
No.

>>2764569
>monopolistic control/access to publicly funded resources and developments
>gouging price to make cheap pills (funded by tax payers) unaffordable
>FDA declining/delaying approval of safe and effective treatments

R& D and production of pills is substantially cheaper than a smartphone, but Pembrolizumab was priced at $150,000, no justification
There is lots of competition in the drug market, including from off-patent drugs which are blocked for re-purposing by FDA regulations

This keeps the monopoly and profit margins high, as people have no options but to obtain unaffordable drugs approved by FDA.
pills are cheap to manufacture and invent

ie: penicillin, aspirin before big pharma

return to the penicillin days

deregulate by allowing generics

the scamming comes from:
monopolistic licenses
billion $$ clinical trials that impede development and increase costs

>>2765765
>>2764569

old drugs being repurposed for new stuff are also being marked up 20000%
ie: antibiotic Thalidomide from 1940s was pennies before repurposed for cancer, now costs $10,000

>>2764872
>>2764672
>>2764084
this is why only corrupt 3rd world mexicans, hindus are the only ones that flock to the barbaric savage burgerland shithole

no civilized 1st worlder would dare to step foot in the land of cannibal morlocks

>>2765782
>wants modern affordable singlepayer healthcare like the 1st world

get a load of this goy

whats next? Free Energy via Tesla Tech? High Speed Rail? Cancer cures? Space colonies?

why dont you fuck off and move to Japan


Pharmaceutical giant 'plotted to destroy cancer drugs to drive prices up

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/drug-giant-aspen-plot-destroy-cancer-medicine-big-pharma-times-investigation-a7683521.html

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>>2761845
>Soft Genocide Measures Promoted by American Eugenics & Planned Parenthood to reduce US population in 1969
Alright Alex Jones...

>Modify tax policies
Taxes going nowhere but down since 1969.

>Encourage women to work
WWII led to the mass employment of women. By 1967, they had doubled the size of the labor pool.

>Encourage increased homosexuality
The Free Love movement and Civil Rights movement, both which started years before, spurred the gay rights movement, culminating in the Stonewall Riots this same year.

>Educate for family limitation
SFAIK, this is not, and never has been done, in the states. We're kinda big on encouraging kids to have families, particularly girls. (Note all the damned toys.)

>Reduce/eliminate paid maternity leave
There were no federal paid maternity leave laws in the US until the 1993. Only five states had such laws in 1969. By 1980, twelve states.

>Reduce/eliminate social benefits
Welfare expenditures have skyrocketed since 1969, even under Reagan, and didn't see any real slowing until Clinton in '96.

>Chronic Depression (via crime rates, economic crisis, social isolation)
Crime rates, nowhere but down. Not seen an economic crisis like The Great Depression, since The Great Depression. Socially, we're more interconnected than we've ever been, with the average person statistically having more contacts with other individuals than ever before in history.

>Limit/eliminate publicly-financed medical care, scholarships, housing, loans and subsidies to families with more than N children.
There's more child welfare programs than ever (despite Clinton's efforts). Medicare is wider spread than ever. There are more scholarship and housing programs than ever.

>Compulsory education of children
Been a thing in the US since 1852.

Though it's true, we are making the frogs gay. (Well, turning males into females, at least.) Dun think it's part of the plan though.

>>2765841
>we dindu nuffin
Alright Soros Kissinger...

the use of the tax system as a means for controlling population growth

http://un-documents.net/ocf-04.htm


> the UN race replacement, homosex, family &economic destruction...
http://www.un.org/esa/population/publications/migration/execsum.pdf

Alan Frank Guttmacher president of Planned Parenthood and vice-president of the American Eugenics Society

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Frank_Guttmacher

Harry L. Shapiro
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_L._Shapiro

Michael Teitelbaum (US Congress staff; US population policy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Eugenics_Society

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Eugenics_Conference


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_parenthood

http://jaffememo.com/full-list-of-population-control-measures-listed-on-the-jaffe-memo/62.htm

http://jaffememo.com/the-memo-in-context

>>2765884
Link all ya want, doesn't change the fact that exactly the opposite of everything you're claiming came to pass.

>>2765894
shitpost all ya want, Soros, doesn't change the fact that exactly the opposite of everything you're claiming came to pass.

>>2765884
>http://un-documents.net/ocf-04.htm
Maybe you should actually read that article, rather than the highlights of whatever blog sent you do it. Most if it is talking about how reducing poverty through better social support reduces population growth - so evil.

Meanwhile, you're claiming welfare has been cut is part of the evil plan, which 1) hasn't happened (certainly not even a dent within decades of '69), and 2) is the exact opposite of what this proposes.

>http://www.un.org/esa/population/publications/migration/execsum.pdf
This report basically says no feasible amount of immigration will fix the population loss problem. It is instead proposing options to encourage population GROWTH and labor participation. It doesn't mention homosexuality at all, but it seems encouraging would be rather counter to solving the problems it is addressing.


>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Frank_Guttmacher
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_L._Shapiro
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Eugenics_Society
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Eugenics_Conference
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_parenthood

Yes, these exist, what of it?

>jaffememo.com
Literally a blog linked by the Alex Jones website.

>>2765923
obviously they arent paying you enough, your shilling is too pathetic

>The American eugenics was funded by various corporate foundations including the Carnegie Institution, Rockefeller Foundation, and the Harriman

>German Nazi eugenics was funded by he Rockefeller Foundation.[8]

>The Rockefeller Foundation even funded Josef Mengele

>Population Council Established in 1952 by John D. Rockefeller III, with important funding from the Rockefeller Brothers Fund, The Council has its roots in the discredited eugenics movement.

> Planned Parenthood received extensive funding from John D. Rockefeller Jr. and his family, who continued to make anonymous donations to Sanger's causes in subsequent decades


> “Philip Jacob Jaffe,” memo,
The Dissent Papers: The Voices of Diplomats in the Cold War and Beyond

https://books.google.com/books?isbn=0231530358

eugenics.us/the-jaffe-memo-and-eugenics/442.htm

Viewing the Earth: The Social Construction of the Landsat Satellite System

https://books.google.com/books?id=Pk7WtI2MJPgC

also washingtontimes and nytimes

>>2765947
I think you're (((their))) plant, making self-contradictory arguments, ignoring simple facts of history, and then repeatedly linking to debunked conspiracy nuts.

Nothing like a flood of Agenda21 disinfo to detract from things that are actually happening, like yonder: >>2761727

>>2765966
>Jaffe Memo, US constitution, Rockefeller Foundation, Population Council,American Eugenics Society, Alan Frank Guttmacher
>debunked conspiracy

lel, weak b8 shill

>>2765997
>>2765923
>>2765947
>>2765884
President Richard Nixon appointed Bush as Ambassador to the United Nations,

Bush was leader of Intelligence

The Eugenics movement was big in the US between the World Wars. American backers, Carnegies, Bushes inspired the movement abroad. Including funding to build a central research facility, the Wilhiem institute in Germany, with the assistance of Adolf and American money.
The Bush family, as you said tried to install a regime inspired by Hitler's 3rd Reich before WWII but got BTFO as you said. But during the war the Senator Prescott Bush was involved in military intelligence. And after the war was responsible for setting up the CIA and helping get his close friend and buisness partner Allen Dulles, named as Chief.
The same people are involved with each other before, during and after the war.
Bushes and other Americans helped formulate the Nazi policy and plans for a master race.
Then after the war gave them safety.

>>2761947

Does it occur to you that economic incentives of being a doctor affects the amount of doctors doing their job full time?

I am more curious as to how the people for privatization are clearly majority Christian when Jesus presumably would have wanted is to all contribute to the health of our neighbors. Can some religious person here argue with me about this?

>>2764672
>literally abusing the word socialism
What is this Orwellian shit?

>>2766568
Jesus was a filthy commie, Supply side jesus is were its at.

P.S fuck Niggers, they are not my neighbour

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>>2760777

>Be a doctor
>Bust your ass in undergraduate so that you can qualify for medical school
>Go through years of extra schooling to get a medical degree
>You're completely drowning in debt by the end of it
>Some idiot has the gall to say you shouldn't get paid for all your effort

>>2766524
would you want madoff/soros or Jesus Christ to be your doctor?

>>2766602
be a used care salesman then

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>>2766609

Non sequitur.

>>2766604

False dichotomy.

>>2766619
strawman: the post

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>>2766622

It's time you to wake the fuck up. Government is NOT the solution. Government is the problem. The best government is a government that lets the market do its work with minimal state interference.

>>2766631
Ignoratio elenchi

>>2766631
>not realising that the market controls the govt

what you think all the lobbyists, industries sponsoring politicians, cros as politicians is for?

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>>2766631

>>2766604

Considering Jesus lived in the age where scientific method was unheard of, Madoff/Soros.

>>2760777
>Is expecting compensation for something that takes 12+ training to legally do bad?
>is it alright for me to expect doctors to live in cardboard boxes while they save my life?
>why won't everyone give me more free shit than they currently do?
& Humanities need to GET OUT

>>2767313

>
>>2762424
>>2762529
>>2761706
>>2761727
> before 1973 it was illegal in the US to profit off of health care

problem is that shysters like >>2767313 >>2766602 used to be confined to the peddling professions like used car salesmenship.

with the transformation of healthcare from free profession to business (>>2767459), the dregs of the peddling class flocked to upgrade their status to doctor while maintaining the skill & charm of their snake oil salesmen nature

prior to the snake oil salesmen domination of the medical profession, it was exclusively comprised of high IQ noblemen of the upperclass

>>2761687
>>2761727

Nobel Prize for Medicine winner Richard J Roberts recently denounced the pharmaceutical industry for orienting its research not to curing illnesses (suppressing cures), but to developing medicine for temporary life extension, which is much more economically profitable.

>>2767459
Doctors still got paid though.

Even Ron Paul's "pro-bono" work was funded by the church.

Stop insisting that doctors "can't starve". Even doctors in Communist Cuba are paid out of the people's collective pocket.

Granted, university used to be free as well, so you could get away with paying them considerably less.

I dunno how you turn back the clock, however, now that scam insurance a multi-trillion dollar industry. Even if we had a full fledged revolution, folks might not want to sack such a huge portion of the economy.

>>2764084
So why are drugs way cheaper in Europe?

>>2767668
yes, no one is arguing about doctors not getting a salary. though anti-humanists are throwing absurd claims that doctors will starve if we revert back to an American tradition of having free healthcare where profit-seeking is illegal

>>2766524
America is understaffed when it comes to doctors because of AMA regulations. Also the problem of America isn't private healthcare, the problem is that the healthcare is ABSURDLY EXPENSIVE. It's not normal to ask for 3000 bucks for a fucking endoscopy regardless of who pays for it.

>>2767668
Literally just choke the medical costs with a hard price cap.

>>2767708
Ask yourself why glasses cost nearly ten times what contacts do, despite contacts requiring more sophisticated test machines and specialists to fit and more expensive and specialized equipment to produce.

Answer: Glasses are almost universally covered by insurance - while contacts, are not. (Well, that, and there's a bit of a monopoly on frames involved.)

Basically, anything that isn't covered by insurance tends to be exponentially cheaper than something that is. Because the entire model is set towards "what the market will bare", and insurance companies have more purchasing power than most any individual.

>>2767725
Tricky to work out, but even trickier to make reality. A bloody revolution might be easier.

>>2767725
the parasites in control will start a war with china before allowing you affordable healthcare and cheap cancer cures (currently suppressed)


meanwhile in Egypt...

The Egyptian government gave the military a license to establish a pharmaceuticals company. According to the prime mister’s decree, the National Authority for Military Production, which is affiliated to the Egyptian Armed Forces, will establish the Egyptian National Company for Pharmaceutical Products. The announcement came after President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi called upon the military to play a bigger role in major infrastructure projects and in the distribution of subsidized goods. While this step could be seen as a solution to the shortage of a large number of drugs and the soaring prices of available ones, it also heats the already-existing debate on the army’s control of the Egyptian economy.


Egypt nationalizes pharma
Egypt’s military entering the pharmaceutical industry

>>2767763
Ask yourself why any medical procedure is singificantly cheaper in super rich Norway than it is in America. America has by far the most expensive care in the world.

>>2767838
>burgers (nixon, robber barrons, elites) are barbaric genocidal savages

>>2767763
Because of health insurance. That's why costs of medical services are so high. It is a middleman that inflates costs.

-Because the party being charged for care is not the individual, it is a corporation, hospitals can charge whatever they want. $50,000 for a 1 hour long outpatient procedure? Individual patients couldn't afford that, but Insurance Corp. can. So why not charge it?
-Health insurance eventually began to like this price gouging. Because it means now that no individuals can afford services, they MUST purchase into the health insurance racket to receive health care. Almost nobody can afford a $90,000 surgery (which used to be $9,000).
-Health insurance corps are now a middleman in EVERYTHING. You can no longer just go to a doctor and purchase a service that costs $1,000. Because the hospital is not charging you, they are charging your insurance provider, which means filing a claim, which means a huge overhead of time completing a bunch of paperwork and followup. Hospital has to expend twice as much energy just to provide and charge for the same service, so they have to increase the price of the service. That $1,000 service now costs $1,600 for the convenience of the hospital billing your insurance provider instead of you. You feel relief because your bank account didn't take a $1,600 hit that month, but instead you just pay $800 in premiums every single month, so you lose money in the long run but if you're an idiot you feel like you saved money. The service should've only cost $1,000 in the first place.

>>2764084
With tards like this America will never improve it's 3rd world health system. (Literally Chile or Uruguay have better systems)

>>2767763
I live in Arizona and they can bill you up to 80k for a scorpion antivenom (anascorp) here, a thing which costs 100 bucks in Mexico. Only a retard or a literal kike medical shill would defend that.

>>2767846
The reason behind your troubles my dear ameritard is the "corps" in healthcare. Words which should never go together. There should not be any fucking insurance packets or whatever. Just Universal Free Healthcare. If I was an American I would cry myself to sleep every night over the sheer stupidity of your system.

>>2767864
we are actually removing Universal Free Healthcare from other countries for the last few decades. all vestiages of socialism will be destroyed and you will adopt the burger model.

this has happened in several eurolands already. just like we removed free university in eurolands
"Private consultancy firms have been central to the coalition government’s plans to carve up the National Health Service (NHS). One service they provide is supposed “consultation” processes, which end up concocting a financial case for the closure and privatisation of swathes of the NHS and handing it over to their clients in the private sector. They reap rich rewards themselves for services rendered.
A particular favourite in the coalition government’s designs is the United States-based global management consulting firm McKinsey & Company, Inc."

it's basically a Ivy League crew that uses their connections to get millions from colleges to "consult" them. What a tidy revolving door of cash. Ever wonder why tuition is so expensive? Because schools like giving it to their friends who probably "consult" them to hire more consultants. Must be nice to be born filthy rich, get to study abroad, and then land in a cushy six figure job fleecing poor college students while doing no real work. What ever gets you the Mercedes I guess.

"A global consulting powerhouse based in New York City, McKinsey has advised dozens of higher education clients, sometimes drawing ire when faculty or students got wind of multimillion contracts."

>>2767852
Funny story actually.

Was talking to. My cousin the other day and she was telling me how she went to the doctor because some medication she was taking was giving her dry eyes. The doctor says not a problem, happens all the time let me write you a prescription for eye drops.

So she goes to fill out the order and the pharmacy tells her, with a VA discount (that's $500) the cost will come out to $2,000. For a single thing of eye drops. She says fuck that and calls the doctor and tells him "i can't afford this"

Doctor is like lolwat? And calls the manufacturer. After arguing with them that the costs were ludicrous the doctor gets them to charge the cost of production and shipping. $50.

>>2767886
McKinsey's fingerprints can be found at the scene of some of the most spectacular corporate and financial debacles of recent decades. The energy-trading firm Enron was the creation of Jeff Skilling, a proud McKinsey consultant of 21 years. But this wasn't guilt by association. Enron, under Mr Skilling, was paying McKinsey $10m (£6m) a year for advice. McKinsey fully endorsed the dubious accounting methods that caused the company to implode in 2001.

The consultancy also advised virtually all of the Wall Street banks in the unprecedented credit boom of the past decade. Its consultants, as Mr McDonald chronicles, actively promoted the securitisation of mortgage assets, the practice that poisoned the global financial system and precipitated the 2008 credit meltdown.

The firm also encouraged the banks to fund their balance sheets with debt, driving down their equity safety buffers in order to juice profits.

Personal corruption has touched the highest echelons of McKinsey. The firm was headed for 10 years by Rajat Gupta, who was convicted in the US for insider trading in 2012. Mr Gupta passed on confidential information on corporations to a billionaire hedge fund friend. Mr Gupta had left the firm when he committed his crimes, but another senior serving McKinsey partner was also involved in the ring of insider dealing."

Chairman of the Save Our Hospitals campaign, said, “I am truly appalled. Not only are NHS NW London proposing to shut some of our most needed services, but they are spending £3 million of our money on McKinsey consultants. They are spending taxpayers’ money on this firm so that they can tell NHS NW London that local residents do not want this to happen, I could have told them that for free.”"

>>2767852
I "can" charge you 89 trillion dollars for a hamburger if I want.

>>2767864
>Universal Free Healthcare
Oh fuck, that's brilliant. Just make it free. Make the pharmaseutical companies produce things for free. Make the doctors work for free. The land that hospitals are built on, free. Let's have the construction workers that build the hospitals simply do it for free. And the medical school will also be free. Nurses, janitors, electricity, it will all just be free. Everyone in the industry will just work 40 hours a day and live in cardboard boxes from now on. That way, everyone will be able to afford top-notch medical care, because medical care just won't exist.

>>2767886
It's not essential for a population to be university educated, but it is essential to have medical care.

>>2767947
This is why jews deserve to get holocausted.

>>2767982

I live in a country with free healthcare. The doctors get paid, the pharmaceutical companies are still private and some of the most successful in the world and no one is living in cardboard boxes.

>>2761442
>tl;dr i dont know shit about healthcare
American system is both one of the freest and also most expensive systems out there.
Socialized systems like the British have proven to be both the most effective and also the cheapest out there.
In medicine the key to lowering costs isn't some technological fantastic advance but simple and cheap prevention. Cheap simple things like vaccines, antibiotics and washing your fucking hands are the things that really changed patients lives. Prevention is always good for the state because it means less costs while its bad for private industry because they prevent you from developing chronic diseases that make you pay for medication the rest of your life and prevent you from needing costly dyagnose equipment.

If you dont know shit about medicine, you should seriously fuck off.

>>2767982
>universal healthcare means the doctors work for free
Why are burgers so retarded?

>>2768157
So the doctors are being paid? Then I have a little secret for you.
The healthcare isn't free, you infantile retard. It's just being paid for differently. If I offer you a """free""" meal, but charge you $50 to get within a mile of it, would you go bragging to your friends about your free meal?

>>2761442
>fat slugs

Europe:
>socialized healthcare
>not fat

America:
>private healthcare
>fat as fuck

Really makes you think.

>>2760804
lyl

>>2768189

Calm down, I'm well aware of where the money comes from. We spend only slightly more money from tax on healthcare as a percentage of GDP than the US does.

It's all perfectly possible, you've just been brainwashed.

>>2768189
So the 4chan are being paid? Then I have a little secret for you.
The amerilards aren't free, you infantile retard. It's just being paid for differently. If I offer you a """free""" country, but charge you to get within a mile of it, would you go bragging to your friends about your free country?

>>2768216
Well if you know that you're paying for it, why the fuck do you call it "free"?
I never said I wasn't possible, I said it was a dumb fucking idea. Why do you want to collectivize health care? Do you want to pay for a lung removal because some dickhead you never met smoked 3 packs a day for 40 years? should you be forced to help pay for an abortion a month because some slag refuses to keep her legs closed? Why not just have people pay for the goods or services they get, like every other industry?

>>2768284

Because it's free at the point of use.

>Do you want to pay for a lung removal because some dickhead you never met smoked 3 packs a day for 40 years? should you be forced to help pay for an abortion a month because some slag refuses to keep her legs closed? Why not just have people pay for the goods or services they get, like every other industry?

We manage to do all of that and still pay a lot less for it than you do.

>>2768284
because then you become a barbaric savage shithole like burgerland

>>2768284
>Do you want to pay for a lung removal because some dickhead you never met smoked 3 packs a day for 40 years?
You're doing that anyways... That's literally how insurance works - it's a risk pool.

He might pay a higher premium than you do, under some systems, but you're both part of that same risk pool, and the more smokers there are, the more your premiums go up, regardless of whether you personally smoke or not.

In Murrica it literally works like this:

>insurance companies jew medical providers hardcore
>so the providers have to jack up costs to an unreal degree
>this results in the entire system being bloated as fuck

Why are insurance companies even needed, seriously? Just make the state the middle man.

>>2768284
this is like a abo lecturing Europeans about the virtues of being a cannibal

>tfw trump was the abo barbarian warlord visited a civilized European society and was startled of their superiority and impressed by their healthcare

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>>2768298
W E W
Stay mad, eurocuck.

>>2762497
It was a mistake, the US military used the wrong one for medical branch insignia and it spread.

>>2768321
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

>USA barely above shithole communist Cuba and ex-communist East Euro shitholes

>>2768337
burgers actually import elderly immigrants to prop up their statistics.

>>2768321

What's the point of working 80 hour weeks and not taking holidays so you have a higher GDP when you spend it all on health insurance company salaries and die earlier because you have shit healthcare?

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>>2768337
>This angry
You're inferior. Just accept it, it's easier that way.

>>2768366
>Nobel laureates
Irrelevant jew prize that has nothing to do with living standards of the average citizen.

>>2768381
I already posted the proof of our staggering wealth, bud.
Is it hard to concentrate when you're kept up all night by the screams of your women being raped by muzzies?

>>2768403
>staggering wealth
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index

The countries ahead of the US are almost all European, nigger.

>>2768366

>UK
>less than one fifth of the population of the US
>more than one third as many Nobel prizes

Are you even trying USA?

>>2760821
>People dying from GSWs in Chicago are a significant contributor to people who can't pay for their healthcare
Really mature line of reasoning, bud.

>>2768216
>We spend only slightly more money from tax on healthcare as a percentage of GDP than the US does.
You pay slightly LESS taxes (as a percentage of GDP) toward healthcare compared to the US. And you pay practically nothing in private expenses, while Americans are penalized for not purchasing insurance policies on top of all that public funding.

>>2768740

My point exactly, friend. Sorry, did I not explain it properly? I was trying to put it in terms the dimwit I was responding to would understand.

>>2760865

I grew up in a town with a volunteer ambulance corps. They never had trouble maintaining a large number of volunteer EMTs. It probably depends on how you're brought up whether you expect money for doing good things or not.

>>2768298
>>2768318
>it used to be illegal to profit from healthcare
>yfw you realize burgers legalized genocide

burgerland is the most evil and should be quarantined. all its influences should be rejected

>>2770373
>burgerland is a genocidal criminal rogue regime on par with nazi germany
civilized nations should distance themselves from burgerland

>>2766644
>>2766663
>>2766667
Great job disproving his argument.

>>2762529
>Ron Paul
bless this man. Truly based. Too bad he'll never get elected president since he wouldn't sustain corporate interests, or intend to at least

>>2767678
Because European governments are a little smarter and "bargain" for lower prices. This "bargaining", of course, is a misnomer. It's two parties nearly immune from competition colluding over a price that maximizes the benefits for each. The prices you pay for medication in Europe is still much higher than it would be in a free market, but both sides get to feel like winners because our greedy American politicians are happy to fuck over their own constituents harder.

>>2761648
Is having a system set up rquiring you to see a doctor everytime you need medical service like giving birth, writing perscriptions or diagnosing yourself morally right?

>>2768337
Black-on-black crime alone accounts for about a six month reduction in our life expectancy rate. We also have working cars, unlike Cuba, which leads to increased vehicular deaths. If you look at non-accidental deaths, we're one of the best in the world.

>>2761954
>>2761947
>>2762529
>>2766602
I dont think it entirely the doctors and their student loan problems.
I do think theres some status bias, and entitlement, and assumptions that need to be rooted out with in the profession.
I know all to often the doctors just try to solve a pateints problem rather than explaining their problem, and explaining the reasoning or action as to why that solution can work or has worked

I think like academia when it comes to costs, the administration is to blame. For the most part atleast.

I mean i get you need to cut the mustard to be a doctor but do you really need the bux?

If you can do medical school, why charge so much for it?

>>2770762

>Do people who've spent shitloads of money getting through medical school need to be compensated in return?

The answer is unequivocally yes.

>>2760777
Yes

In my eyes it's akin to demanding money for education, or any sort of knowledge. It's a god given right for a man to be free from suffering, and trying to profiteer from alleviating suffering and potentially denying some people ease simply due to financial status is morally bankrupt.

>>2770762
The problem is that the AMA has unrealistically high standards for approval; this is to keep the supply of doctors low and wages high. I'm not advocating getting rid of all standards, but the idea that a basic doctor needs to go through countless years of training and residency the same as a heart surgeon is ridiculous. The fact that medical tourism is so increasingly popular is evidence of that fact.

>>2770771
Actually my question was

Do people need to pay an exorbitant amount to learn to become part of the medical profession.

I mean if doctors are supposed to morally work as if their services are free, and knowledge is power

If i can get accepted into medical school why do i have to pay so much for it?

>>2770835
You do realize that surgeons have to do at least a residency and possibly a fellowship on top of their general medical education, while the general practitioner only needs to finish medical school and an internship, right?

>>2770835
I dont mind the time invested in education

But i think when we look at why stuff is shit we look at the education,
And it usually goes back to the nature of administering education and the infrastructure involved.

I mean maybe it was the case that doctors didnt require such high prices to their services.
But then they get out of the medical profession and decide to teach.
So now since they arent held to a doctors oath they are allowed to be greedy.
They charge insanely high rates for their knowledge, to make it privelidged, and then inturn indenture the future doctors and indoctrinate them into your vision of medical treatment when you are no longer beholden to the hippocratic oath.

Then the cycle repeats.

>>2770843
That's not always the case, and you can see that the USA has fewer doctors per capita than most of the developed world, despite having the best paid doctors. Even our current general medical education is excessive for what should be basic medical issues.

There's nothing morally wrong with charging for medical care. It's a service like any other. Doctors have to spend years of intense study to learn their craft. I see no reason why they should be expected to ply their trade for little to no compensation.

>b-but you can't put a price tag on life!
Nobody is doing that. They're putting a price tag on their services. You might as well make the argument that food and shelter should be free as well, since both are required for you to continue living.

>>2770867
It absolutely always is the case. You cannot be a specialist without doing a residency or fellowship.

>>2770879
I dont diagree with you and im not the anon you replied to
But
I do take issue when the common man is absolutly prevented from administering diagnosis,and treatment themselves. Especially when so much medical information is available to te public.

>>2768740
>while Americans are penalized for not purchasing insurance policies on top of all that public funding
This was Obama's half assed attempt to create a socialized system in the US. It's getting repealed in the very near future too.

>>2770887
Wrong, medical training/education has gradually increased with time even for non-specialists.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4585483/

>The traditional Flexnerian model of medical education has remained largely unchanged for more than a century, with students sequentially mastering two years of preclinical classes followed by two years of clinical clerkships.22 When Abraham Flexner recommended this model, medical school was the extent of most physicians’ training—there was little availability of residency training programs. Today, however, becoming a physician is not a three- or four-year proposition but, rather, a 7- to 10-year journey with medical school comprising the first step.

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>>2770908
>When your neurosurgeon only has a masters.

>>2770916
We're talking about general practitioners, not neurosurgeons.

In Germany it only takes 8 years to become a doctor, including undergrad. Why should it take 10-11 in the USA?

>>2770916
A masters is higher than an MD

>>2770934
They have residents, attendings, and students
The medical profession does have a masters, except maybe dieticians , therapists (occupational,rehab,physical),and nurses.
A medical doctor or an osteopathic one dont have a masters degree or level of education/expertise.

>>2771152
I have no idea what you're trying to say or how it relates to my saying that a masters is a higher degree than a doctor of medicine.

>>2771173
I disagree
Partly becuase theres no masters level in medicin
And doctors are given more responsibility and power than your average M.A or M.S.
I mean comparatively a psychiatrist who has a medical degree can perscribe anything
A psychologist needs to have a ph. D and theres only some states that allow them to perscribe antidepressants.

A masters degree in psychology or anything else takes about 2 years and its the equivalent of a graduate level business degree.

>>2764874
Yes it is, get over it.

>>2760777
>Expect others to work for you for free
Doctors are to be slaves?

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>>2765768
>Thalidomide
Where do I remember that na

NOPE NOPE FUCKING NOPE

THEY'RE SELLING THAT SHIT AGAIN? FUCK EVERYTHING

>>2771470
>hurr durr if it's bad for fetii it's bad for adults

>>2771472
>we did the clinical studies right this time we promise
Thalidomide is the demon core of drugs

>>2771475
go eat your free-range pro-biotic colon-fermented antidepressants

>>2771479
Go pop your benzos

>>2771470
Thalidomide is bad because it's a teratogenic drug. That's it. If you're not pregnant, it doesn't do shit to you (well, nothing that bad).

>>2771456
Doctors need to be monks of sorts really.
Compassion,being humble,being aware, helping others.

I mean maybe we dont need to be socializing medicine, maybe we need to be socializing doctors.

Doctors and pharmacists are going to be replaced by AI within two decades but the GOP will still find a way to ensure life saving procedures cost $200k a pop.

>>2771490
>>2765768
you know you are in a genocidal fascist dictatorship when an old, cheap drug to treat cancer costs $10k

you know you are in a civilized democratic society when the same drug costs $2

>>2771615
doctors have been replaced by AI ever since FDA approved guidelines were introduced. all they do is just follow the recipe (algorithm) outlined in the guideline. it just needs to be fully automated,

even if cures exist, the doctors wont provide them since it is not in the FDA approved guidelines

>>2771472
>>2771475

It's only bad if you give it to pregnant women. It's fine for other people.

>>2771594
Why limit only doctors to be "monks", compassionate, humble, aware, help others?

Not not force others to do the same and make everyone a monk?

>>2772293
>an anti-sociopath society
this
abolish/deport sociopaths

all society should be compassionate and humble (which is uniquely anglo-saxon). this will solve all problems.

a homeless blonde girl is being beaten up by a bandit. blonde girl pleas for your help. you demand the blonde girl to pay you and suck your dick.

Is demanding payment and dick sucking for this morally bad?

>>2764672
>government stifles free trade
Not this meme again

>>2760777
The first doctors thought so

>>2773426
Great counter-argument, comrade

>>2774091
so authentic doctors were humble noblemen?

>>2774553
u wot?

>>2761442
People could pay out of pocket for treatment back when doctors were providing very basic treatments. Treating a guy with a bad heart by offering nitroglycerin pills and extending his life an extra five years isn't the same as putting a $100,000 pace maker into a guys heart and extending his life 30 years. What's more, people generally want medical procedures, devices, and medicines to improve over time and that requires additional investment. And it's strange to think that market forces will allow consumer choice: Your doctor offers a CT scan vs an MRI to locate a tumor, offers a seasoned radiologist or a newbie to interpret imaging, offers robotic assisted laser surgery or old fashioned scalpel, and gives you a choice of different anesthetics with different risk factors???? Most doctors can't meaningfully price out a surgery outside of their field, not due to regulations or inefficency, but simply because the 'assembly line' for treatment is necessarily complex given modern surgical procedures.
And consumers can't "wait for the procedure to become cheaper" like they can wait for a new smartphone feature to become cheaper because they can die. Finally, medicine isn't like other forms of production in that the demand for treatment of stuff like Progeria isn't going to be sensitive to economies of scale.

The ONLY area of medicine where market forces makes sense is in orthopedic treatment of broken bones caused by sports injuries as these are preventable in the same way car wrecks are.

>>2760821
>Why on earth should their wounds be tended for free?
Why on earth should a family go into debt because Timmy got hit by a car that drove off?

>>2760865
Well yeah, duh, but would you be that averse to getting paid through taxation?

>>2760777

Some kind of compesation is obviously deserved

Not the degree that is required for medical care in the States, mind you, that's run pretty damn rampant. But no one should be expected to perform a highly trained profession for free. That's an unsustainable idea.

>>2766631
>It's time you to wake the fuck up. Government is NOT the solution. Government is the problem. The best government is a government that lets the market do its work with minimal state interference.
Yes, we should have no protection against monopoly, i haven't got a fucking clue how that could do anything harmful in an industry like fucking medicine.

The invisible hand is fucking horseshit, free marketeers have no defense against monopoly.

>>2768189
>everybody pays for a service available to all
>because it's not charged at the point of consumption it's called free
It's an expression you fuckwit, saying "free at the point of use" is 6 syllbales, "free" is one and can be understood by people not afflicted with autism.

>>2777887
>"wait for the procedure to become cheaper"

advancements are stifled by draconic FDA (>>2761806)

an example is Combinatorial ablation and immunotherapy, which has been available for half a century but ignored. it is cheaper and more effective than the archaic procedures still in practice and is able to cure even metastatic disease:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combinatorial_ablation_and_immunotherapy

>>2778049
modern practice is a century behind technology and advancements. instead of utilizing new or even ignored old tech (photodynamic therpay, radiofrequencyimmunology), medical professionals stick with costly and failed procedures that follow the official authoritarian dogma of archaic guidelines, practices, and regulations

>>2760821
Ayn Rand and autism.