how fucked is religion in the west?

>>2757579
America still is pious supposedly

I bet those who say they are religious know deep down god is bullshit

you would think a people who believed in a heaven would have no fear and yet they hide in their houses while leftist activist youth take the initiative

>>2757579
>On a scale of 1 - to proper fucked..
End Times/10

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>>2757579
Most of my country is "religious" (some 90% identify as catholic) in the sense that they go to church and do nothing else related to christianity. They are utterly useless. Our priests are not all that good, either - they are mostly detached and disinterested, and the beauty of the sermons is ruined by their insistence on sounding as if they were bored to hell. Our youth, of which I am part, is nearly beyond repair with irresponsibility, promiscuity, apathy and calousness towards society and others. Most young people I know have at least some form of emotional issues (of which the most common seem to be the unwillingness to seriously commit to anything, particularly relationships, and fears of abandonment) and are almost invariably nihilistic and hostile toward religion and patriotism. Divorce rates are skyrocketing, and the effects of broken families on people are fairly obvious when you get to know them. I am genuinely trying to help people overcome that phase, and have actually had successes with several people, but it is a Sisiphus quest. The whole state of things is tragic. I wish I were joking, or that I could claim those judgements to be inaccurrate on account of knowing too few people, but I am not joking nor can I claim that. Just bloody end this.

t. Croatian catholic

>>2757732
>t. Croatian catholic
OP said no brown people ITT please!

>>2757732
>tfw ustase were saying the same thing at first

>>2757615
At least in my anecdotal experience, Americans tend towards more piety, but even less theology than Europeans. I have encountered literal clergy, both catholic and proestant (Baptists and methodists) who made errors about what parts of the Bible were written by Paul, or just being unfamiliar with notions like that the Old Testament was not originally written in Greek. And again, that's clergy, not just people going to church. American religious experience is mostly shouting JEEEESUS really loudly and not much else.

Church is a scam anyway. It has detached itself from God long ago.

If you truly seek God you will find Him on your own.

>>2757579
By religion you mean christianity, right?
In that case; I will tell you plainly that it is dying. For better or for worse christianity will become a minority religion in the developed world.

>>2757842
>Him

>>2757807
>OP said no brown people ITT please!
Hilarious. Please tell me by what metric Croatians aren't white.
>>2757822
>tfw ustase were saying the same thing at first
NDH was a bloody shitfest, in case you were trying to imply that I have ustaša sympathies.
>he holds some positions generally held by conservatives
>he is obviously an ustaša

daily reminder that 11% of Americans were members of a church right before the Frontier ended.
Asia is also getting more religious, despite increases in standards of living.

Whig historians and dialectical marxists are cancer, regardless of subject.

>>2757842
t. never set foot in a church

>>2757859
Yeah, cause Christianity is so winning right now in the West, right?

I blame American evangelicalism, they use fear tactics into making people feel overly guilty or ashamed. Lots of Christians I know have anxiety because they overthink sin and everything in bible. Some of them only became Christians because they are afraid of hell and think God make them burn for all eternity. Hell, I know one couple who said Christianity ruined their sex life on marriage and now they're unhappy. I think their arrogance of what constitutes as right and Wrong today's world has caused people to stray away. Lots of people think Christianity is "boring", has too many rules, and that the bible is 'outdated'. Lots of people view Christians as uptight and arrogant people constantly negatively judge non believers.

>>2757833
>>2757870
As per usual, americans ruin everything for everyone else.

>>2757870
Yeah while most churches moved away from fire and brimstone and absurdly strict and judgmental views towards purity, language and the like, baptist and evangelical churches got even worse

>>2757868
thanks for paying attention.

>>2757887
>>2757870
I genuinely thought that only happened in films. Is it really that bad in the US?

>>2757870
Sometimes too much religion can be unhealthy for you

>>2757870
I guarantee you those people would suffer from every bit as much anxiety without religion as they do with.

Because orgenised religion makes no sense, the more educated people are the more chance they'll come to the conclusion praying some jewish zombie is a waste of time.

I still like the cultural side of things though, the cathedrals etc.

T. Lapsed Catholic

>>2757732
Exactly the same here.
t. Orthodox Serb
Tho i've met a few priests that were worth talking to the important people in the church don't give a shit about anything other than their audis.
The only difference being in regards to patriotism. Almost everyone i know is heavily patriotic, one way or the other. Most of them unironically want to go on a crusade against Albanians.
The few unpatriotic ones i've met were a handful of women, i even know a gay dude who's patriotic.

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>>2757732

I was going to ask you if you were Mexican.

>>2758138
Mexico and the Balkans have much in common.

>>2757732

Croat here, do you perhaps browse Croatian Reddit?

Such a trend is seen all over the West. People claim that as society develops in its many aspects, a natural and good thing is slow but inevitable death of faith. I have come to conclusion that this is fundamentally wrong. Religion exists, it has purpose. It creates social cohesion, bolsters unity between its members. I look at people today in our country and all I see is misery. Drugs, alcohol, promiscuity exploding. But when you really observe these people, you see that they are simply sad, and are grasping for every straw of instant hedonism they can get.

The churches are empty because they're all here, trying to win your soul through epic memes and shitposting. Meanwhile, their holy houses decay.

Tbh I think this is all happening because europe is too succesful and is in its hedonism and decline phase that every big civilization has to go through.

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>>2758209
sadly this

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Read Heraclitus, Nietzsche, Guenon, Heidegger, Jung, and Evola

Thank me later.

>>2757895
I mean it depends on the church but there is a reason why American evangelicals get called puritans as an insult.

>>2757925
>orgenised
>jewish zombie

holy fuck lmao fedoras are hilarious

>>2758243

If you have read all of them and understand something that we do not, why do you not show your wisdom and write your opinion instead of autistic 'read this'. I doubt you read even a single author of all you listed.

>>2757862
>t. respects the church

>>2758209
Europe has been much more influential in the past. Its the influence of individualism that is pushing away religion.

>>2757579
If white people don't get bred out, I think they'll eventually return to religion. Atheism leads to Nihilism, and Nihilism will eventually lead to Stoicism, which I think will eventually lead to some form of religion.

>>2758279
let me guess, you came here from/pol/?

>>2758290
This thread is about white people.

OP says "no brown people".

Sorry if for bringing up the fact that white people's birth rates are low, I guess.

>>2758279
please expand on the nihilism to stoicism part

>>2758303
With nihilism there's nothing to comfort you during your suffering. So I feel like this will push more people towards denying their emotions, so that they relieve themselves' from their suffering.

>>2758252
how (and why) religion is "fucked" in the west? (and what can be done about it) is not something that can be answered in a 4chan post. I offered the OP to read those authors because they explain the decay and also offer a prospect of personal and societal renewal.

If you want a really stripped down list read Guenon's Crisis of Modernity, and the Reign of Quantity, after which (assuming you have already read Nietzsche) move onto Evola's Heathen Imperialism, and then Revolt Against the Modern World. That should suffice as the barebones.

>>2758178
>Croat here, do you perhaps browse Croatian Reddit?
Not anymore, but last year I did for a while.
>Religion exists, it has purpose. It creates social cohesion, bolsters unity between its members. I look at people today in our country and all I see is misery. Drugs, alcohol, promiscuity exploding. But when you really observe these people, you see that they are simply sad, and are grasping for every straw of instant hedonism they can get.
I am of that opinion, too. It is also an amazing expression of the pathos innate to humanity - the intense beauty and passion of selfless love, of faith, resolve and compassion. Not just on the example of Jesus, even though He is by far the greatest, but on many others in the New and Old Testament. In many ways, christianity is just a natural result of those innate and powerful emotions - when one worships Jesus, one worships the intense beauty of His love and sacrifice, of all He had done and was ready to do, on account of nothing but the strength of His selfless love toward us. One cannot avoid a powerful emotional response when thinking about it in all seriousness - without cynicism.

>>2757990
>Almost everyone i know is heavily patriotic, one way or the other.
Cherish it. Nearly everyone I know just wants to move abroad, far away from their country and their people, to ditch their homeland and let it slowly die an undignified death of a nation its own sons no longer care for. It is deplorable.

>>2758325

Do you still have username at Reddit? To send you pm.

Our country is a economic hellhole, one simply can not deny that. Of course people then try to flee somewhere else. Which is honestly really sad. Our fertility rates are very low, I am sad to say that Croatia does not have future.

>>2757579

UK Noahide


The world wars fucked Europe spiritually and emotionally due to man thinking it can make laws for itself. The only way to guarantee just, righteous conduct is not an ethical system based on human reason but on the fulfillment of the Will of the Creator and Director of the world.

>On a scale of 1 / proper fucked how bad is it?

Moshiach pls respond / 10

>>2758325
What I have been meaning to convey is that christianity, similarly to other religions, manages to inspire faith precisely because of how firmly connected it is to these powerful emotions people can innately appreciate. In that way, religion is nothing but the natural result and expression of such emotions - it is rooted in the common human experience. Besides its importance on the personal level, it also serves to show its importance on the social level - it strongly affirms our shared values and instills a feeling of community built on mutual feelings, mutual values and participation in ritualistic (in the sociological sense) events, such as masses.

>>2758358
Well, I just created a profile as Ioannes_Mikhail. If you want to pm me, sure.

>>2758471

Jesi li siguran da si ti anon kojeg sam pitao?

>>2758508
Pamćenje mi je solidno, još sam mlad.

>>2758524

U redu, pošaljem ti pm sutra.

>>2758542
Meni paše.

>>2758550

S ovoga accounta, Wolfsquad123 ti se javim.

Ne gledaj postove, proučavam false flag metode na Europskim liberalima.

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>>2757579
>>2757732
>>2758361
Keep crying. I'm deeply sorry that a made-up mythology that hasn't been useful for thousands (or at least hundreds) of years is finally going into decline. It will not be missed.

>inb4 fedora
Anger is the second stage of grief. And it's a complete strawman anyway.

>>2758178
>Such a trend is seen all over the West. People claim that as society develops in its many aspects, a natural and good thing is slow but inevitable death of faith. I have come to conclusion that this is fundamentally wrong. Religion exists, it has purpose. It creates social cohesion, bolsters unity between its members. I look at people today in our country and all I see is misery. Drugs, alcohol, promiscuity exploding. But when you really observe these people, you see that they are simply sad, and are grasping for every straw of instant hedonism they can get.
Orthodox, but based Benedict says it best.
http://aleteia.org/2016/06/13/when-cardinal-joseph-ratzinger-predicted-the-future-of-the-church/
Too long to copy-paste the text

In any case "together through ages of the world we have fought the long defeat."
Cheers

>>2758601
Aren't you a bit short sighted? Like what comes next?

>>2759433
believe it or not the earth still revolves whether churches are filled to the brim or not

>>2757579
The large Latino population of the USA will probably put religion on life support, they're the most devout people. But after they get integrated properly they too will secularize. Until they reach the level of France where half "Catholics" say they don't believe in God.

>>2759459
Thats true, but if you think long enough about it, you will need something to keep humanity and human nature in check.
Now religion has the same benefit as capitalism, it is a self organizing system. you need no central command, it'll take care of itself by hivemind (minor chimpouts have to be accepted).
Now before you shut down the whole system permanently you better come up with a replacement that performs better.
Think it trough, you will get the same conclusions.

>>2757615
our backwoods prots are still pretty damned pious but what does that even count for when there is no unity between them? they're completely useless beyond their own small communities.

>>2759471
>But after they get integrated properly
That's pretty unlikely desu.

>>2759493
only in /pol/ land
it's an actual problem that catholics talk about. when latinos move up to america they usually lose their religion within a generation or 2.

>>2759501
They may lose their religion. But that doesn't mean they're integrated.

>>2757579
>basically it is Sodom and Gomorrah in society
I think I've missed all the gay mobs raping men that enter town

Lack of belief is a huge issue and the root of all Western problems. But it's not so simple as just blaming "atheists" for their non-belief. It was bound to happen. Nietzsche predicted it. Jordan Peterson discusses this. And Jung is the solution to it.

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Fuck, all this shit is depressing to read.

>>2759559
>Jean-Cuck Sartre
>Cum-mus
These are part of the problem.

>>2757615
Piety in the US these days is basically sharing Joel Osteen self-help memes. The whole 700 Club and AM radio crowd is mostly dead or in a vegetative state in hospices by now.

>>2757579
Not OP, but now that we have agreed on the problem, what is to be done about it?

>>2760178
We should create new religion centered around real virtues, not Jewish lies.

>>2760178
Sharia (only Christian). We need something like the Islamic Republic or Saudi Arabia (only Christian). Christian Reconstructionists seem to have the right idea.

>>2760193
> Something like the Islamic Republic or Saudi Arabia (only Christian)
Basically USA

>>2757842

t. Martin Luther

>>2760203
If only.

Also
>Bush Era/Michael Moore tier memes

In Canada christians are openly ridiculed and le atheism is very very fashionable. Were just too free for our own good, rights seem to be the top priority and the church is viewed as very oppressive. I mean the /pol/ tier LARP stuff is in a very sad way making me optimistic for some measure of meaning for our youth but its not looking good.

I myself am reading through the bible but damn is it going to be tough to commit, assuming I decide to. Id prefer to take it seriously and that means having to tell gays theyre living wrong and that jesus really did his miracles?

I can't be an allegorical bible reader can I? Youve got to believe it all?

>>2757579
I'd say that Christianity is on its way out. It's really sad but often times when I go to my church (Catholic) or when I visited a Protestant one, I only saw old people.
imo young adults have too many commitments (school, relationships, hobbies, etc) and weren't raised with religion. There is no appeal or interest in going to a mass.
That being said, Islam seems to have a really high amount of young followers, and they have a lot of kids. I also have seen a few edgy people make neo Pagan or Wiccan groups/covens around, but I don't think they will ever be anything more than a minority.
I truly do want Christianity to make a comeback. I can't really think of how though. Religion isn't fucked in the West, but Christianity is in a lot of trouble.

That depends on which direction religion is going to take. If Christianity returns to uts roots, and starts caring about the lowest of the low again, like it's supposed to, then it can easily make a comeback, as it has done several times in the past.

Remember, Christianity is 2000 years old. That's a pretty long time to influence culture, something that is proven by the fact that in many ways, leftism us just secular Christianity. If you think that you can just get rid of something that has been so dominant for so long, you're a little too optimistic, to say the least.

To him, Richard Dawkins is completely free of religion and Christianity. To me, he's essentially just a peculiar type of Protestant

>>2758243
Half of them are charlatans.

8 - still good, loads of people in churches for the big holidays

22, male, Slovenia - Catholic

>>2757579
>>major countries in Europe are already predominantly irreligious

No.

>>science has pushed god to the edges of the Universe and cringy metaphysics

You don't understand metaphysics.

Christianity itself is too divided between all its bizarre microfactions.

>>2760975
the ecumenical movement is working as well.
Ever saw a "United Church of X"?
That's protestants making one national communion.

Now, catholics and eastern/oriental/assyrian churches are working on some stuff as well.

It will be interesting if they manage it.

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So how many catholics are there left on Sweden? Because I can tell you Dragon Rouge is flourishing there.

Silly OP. The state is the new family and religion. Its the double patriarch.

>>2758601
>God created man with original sin
At least learn what you're arguing against before you go full fedora.

>>2757859
>>daily reminder that 11% of Americans were members of a church right before the Frontier ended.
This doesn't mean they weren't religious. It just means they didn't attend church. In modern america by contrast, we have declining church attendance rates AND an increasing non-religious population.

Your faith has no future in the US and is either dead or dying in Europe.

>>2760500
i can dig this. getting your hands dirty with the lowest of the low would be a draaag though fuck