When did Rome really fall?

476

Actual fall of the Roman Empire was 476
Fall of the eastern remains of the Roman Empire (Byzantine Empire) was 1453

West: it's a little nebulous, you could probably say either 476 when Romulus Augustulus was deposed or 480 when the "Western Roman Empire" was formally dissolved and the "Eastern Roman Empire" just became the "Roman Empire"

East: It's a lot easier since it happened as a single definitive event in 1453, although if you wanted a little wiggle room you could say the late 13th century when a Hellenic national identity started to rise in the Roman Empire rather than an exclusively Roman one

I look forward to the rest of this thread being full of bizarre claims about the Turks, Russians and Britons somehow being Romans

>>2742874
>West: it's a little nebulous, you could probably say either 476 when Romulus Augustulus was deposed or 480 when the "Western Roman Empire" was formally dissolved and the "Eastern Roman Empire" just became the "Roman Empire"
It's also import to note that a Roman identity persisted in Gaul until the 7th century and in Italy until the Romans/Byzantines eventually lost control of it again

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>>2742874
> 1453
Was it even a real empire after 4th crusade?

>>2742639

Rome still exists. It's a city of 3 million people, which is more than ever.

Visigoths and franks still carried on roman traditions in their kingdoms.

>>2742639
After the death of the last Holy Roman Emperor.

>>2742884

What is "empire"?

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>>2742639
If you told someone in the middle ages that the Roman Empire has fallen, they'd just give you a weird look.

>muh can't have Roman Empire without Rome as capital
Rome wasn't even the capital of the Western Roman Empire at the time of its fall.

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476 in the west

1204 - nearly

1453 indisputably

There's also the Holy Roman Meme to consider - crushed by Napoleon in 1805

>>2742639
Generally speaking I don't think it unhelpful to put an exact date on the fall of the Roman Empire. There are many dates that can be picked. It is better to look at it as the process rather than a moment.

>>2742639
when they went off the gold standard

>>2743013
france still has an empire so it wins

>>2742639
What the FUCK happened in 241?

November 1, 1922 when Mehmed VI was deposed