What are some good resources to learn about this clusterfuck

I have a buddy named Frank

>>2737022
Tell a French person that Charlemagne was German, they'll "educate" you on it.

>>2737022
Now you see why the dark ages are not a meme. Nobody can tell you anything about those times.

>>2737488
That's because they were invented by the Catholic Church and we're actually living in 1767.

>>2737022
Heart of Europe by Peter H Wilson is a good resource that covers the history from Charmelagne to Napoleon.

However, it's not in chronological order, and it's got an excruciating level of detail that makes it very, very dry to read.

>>2738066
Isn't that about the HRE?

>>2737507
I like this theory, where can i learn more?

>>2737507
What pill did you swallow and who is your dealer?

>>2738069
Mostly yes, but because it's hard to really understand the HRE without looking at Charlemagne, it also covers a good deal of Charlemagne's empire as well.

>>2738112
I want something that focuses on the Frankish kingdom before Charlemagne

>>2738112
Are you German? You know Charlemagne and his empire didn't just pop up out of nowhere right?

>>2737388
Who gives a fuck about his nationality ? He was Frankish, not French, not German, not anything else than Frankish

>>2738298
Frankish is literally the medieval word for French.

>>2738318
That is literally not true.

>>2738544
It literally is. The king of France was referred to as "king of the Franks" until the 13th century.

>>2738603
He's not French eitherway

>>2738913
bah buthurt german cuck lol

>>2737022
Venice was independent all the way back to these times? What's up with those people?

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>>2737022
>>2737022

Shit map

Austrasia is between the Meuse and the Rhine and didn't includes Flanders who is a part of Neustria

Austrasia is overstretched on the east and is "eating" Thuringian clay

Swabia should be renamed Allamania,

Burgundy includes a part(around switzerland) of Allamania


>>2738603


He was Rex Francorum aka King of the French nothing to do with the Franks
>>2738913
Pic related is the son of Charlemagne ; Louis the Pious
He look very French to me

>>2739071
>He was Rex Francorum aka King of the French nothing to do with the Franks

That literally means king of the Franks. Or king of the French, since they're the exact same thing.

>>2738298
But modern French are Latinzed Franks and Romanized-Gaulics!

>>2739246
>That literally means king of the Franks

Franks is a modern ivnetion fuck them

It just mean French and it will stay that way

>>2737388
What language did he speak? An archaic version of French, or an archaic version of German?

>>2737022
ck2

>>2741521
>language
Only blood matter

>>2741521
Karl preferred to live in Aachen, so he probably spoke an archaic for of German
sources reveal that he knew Latin as well

Karl was German. France is a German colony. Think GB - USA.

>>2741524
Unless you want to mod, the closest you can get is Charlie or Charlie's sons (the better option IMO)

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>>2741865
Fuck off dumb snow nigger

Charlemagne was a French, and it is the contrary we colonized you that much that you went from 60 -70% I1 to 20-25% I1

>>2741521
He probably spoke old Frankish, a germanic language/dialect.

>>2741917
>old Frankish
A meme language who left no trace, even the oldest "Frankish" text was written in latin

>>2741933
Nice dubs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankish_language
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_Franconian_languages
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salic_law#Old_Dutch_glosses
Modern Franconian languages still exist, most notably Dutch and its offset Afrikaans which is spoken in at least 3 different continents.
Frankish was written using both a runic script and the Latin alphabet, later on, in its original form, one good example is the Salic Law. However the language of law and religion remained to be Latin which is why the Salic Law codes are mainly written in Latin, however bits and pieces show up in Old Frankish.

Poor Frenchies. They wuz... conquered.

>>2742011
>Frankish is a thing, i-i swear guys
>There is no textual evidence of Frankish

Nice meme you got there

>Franconian
Franconia is literally a meme dukedom created during the Carolingian times
Nothing to do with Franks

>>2742011
>however bits and pieces show up in Old Frankish

Nope

A bit of Dutch show up

And it is a later gloses in a manuscript, thus not in the actual text

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>>2737488
Jacobins shouldn't have burned clerical libraries which certainly had documents concerning these times.

>>2742342
Dutch is one of the Franconian languages. It's not modern Dutch that shows up anyway.

>>2742337
You said nothing cohesive minimally resembling an actual argument so I'll just ignore you.

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>>2742376
So Dutch wuz French n sheit

How come they don't look like """""""""their""""""""" ancestors ?

How come they call themselves Dutch and not "Frank" ?

>>2742428
Make an actual post then maybe someone will reply to you.

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>>2742435

I did better than typing a post, germshit

I reunited in one pick all the physical descriptions that we have from the g*rms, the gauls, the French, and so on


Pic related (again), lète filth :'D

>>2742465
I'm not even a German nor a French, nor a Dutch, or even from that part of Europe for that matter. I stated facts. Dutch comes from old Frankish, fact. There are writings of old Frankish, fact.
The rest of what you're trying to say about how French people look and what that has to do with the old Franks has really nothing to do with what I'm saying, not to mention it's based on anecdotal evidence with no sources.

>>2737022
it's not organized yet (and i was planning on making it into a chart) but here's a list of books on the period OP
https://pastebin.com/BQxHqKcg

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>>2742696
also my guide to the merovingians

>>2737507
whoa, i'm not sure i can handle this redpill

>>2742696
>>2742714
thank you anon for taking the time to do this
do you like early medieval france?

>>2742607
>ich bin not German, mein friend belive in me !

Sure thing; Hans

>Dutch comes from old Frankish, fact
Dutch come from Old Dutch


There is no such thing as Old Frankish


>There are writings of old Frankish, fact.

Show them if they exist

pro:tip they don't


> anecdotal evidence with no sources.
>various quotes
>various contemporaries descriptions made by themselves
pick one, Hans

>>2742745
>German shaming
What has this board come to?

>>2742767
This board has always hated Germany

>>2742721
i'm actually not so familiar with the period as i should be, but i am fascinated by the transition from late antiquity to early medieval europe, if its accurate to say there was such a drastic change at all.
I mostly started with these charts because the franks and their role in the creation of europe as we know is popular here and contested. It's also part of my ambition to create comprehensive /his/ reading lists for the HRE and western European countries more generally. I've sort of fizzled out in my chart making the last few weeks though

>>2742788
Do you have one in the making for the HRE?

>>2737022

it wasnt that much of a clusterfuck, that came after it broke in three parts

>>2742745
I'm just going to assume you're a troll, then.

>>2742798
>clovis creates a single empire
>divides it amongst his four sons
>after years of civil war one finally controls the whole empire
>he divides it amongst his sons
>rinse and repeat until the Carolingians show up

>>2742790
that's the plan. the franks were the precursor to the HRE, so that chart is sort of like the first in the series (and the first in a series of charts on medieval france too). That pastebin i posted it what is what i planned for a carolingian empire chart, and this link
https://pastebin.com/3YKXqsqp
has books on the succeeding dynasties of the HRE till about the late middle ages or so

>>2742767
I'm not biaised against Germans

I'm just sick of their constant revisionism whose only goal is to establish an identity for a meme people created circa 1800 AD

>>2742813
Too bad that anon was talking about the Dutch then.

>>2742817
Dutch, Germans, Franks, what's the difference?

>>2742805
>He don't post the "so" called Old Frankish texts

Where are they hans ?
:'^)

>>2742821
Wew that b8

>>2742825
I posted a link to the Salian Law, you simply ignored it and started sperging about what French people look like.
Why am I even replying to you still? No point, you can't argue properly.

>>2742830
>Salian Law

The Salian Law was published in Latin, Hans


And the descent of the Salian Franks(the French and the Belgian French don't speak your so called Old Frankish language


>>2742821
>Dutch, Germans, Franks, what's the difference?

>Vita Karoli
>Now, when I said Frankland just above, I meant all the provinces north of the Alps; for as it is written: "In those days ten men shall take hold out of all the languages of the nations, shall even take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew," so at that time, by reason of the glory of Charles, Gauls, Aquitanians, Æduans, Spaniards, Germans, and Bavarians thought that no small honour was paid to them, IF THEY WERE THOUGHT WORTHY TO BE CALLED THE SERVANTS OF THE FRANKS .
https://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/basis/stgall-charlemagne.asp


mfw the servants LARP as the master

>>2742869
The Salian Law has bits in Old Frankish, follow the link.
>the descent
I was never talking about their descendants though? Why do you keep pushing this bullcrap? Learn to argue, mouth breather.
Again, not German.

>>2742878
>Salian Law has bits in Old Frankish,
Nope

It don't

GLOSES ARE SIDE TEXT ADDED TO MAKE A TEXT CLEARER, as an example the Vulgate had Old French gloses(Reichenau Gloses) to make some words clear but it does not make it a Old French text tho

>>2742909
It's literally not Old French, it's Old Frankish a Germanic language, and it's not a side text added later. Just read the link, spic.

>>2742917

Let's try again

GLOSES ARE SIDE TEXT ADDED TO MAKE A TEXT CLEARER WHEN IT BECOME DIFFICULT TO READ IT, IT IS NOT A PART OF THE ORIGINAL TEXT BUT IT IS A LATER ADDITION !

And your so called "Old Frankish" gloses, are Old Dutch gloses even your link say it

>>2742945
Learn English.
Stop sperging with Caps Lock.
Learn to make arguments and actually type correctly.

The link clearly states it's Old Frankish, the ancestor language to Dutch. Therefore it also gets the denomination of Old Dutch sometimes.
Nowhere does it say it's a "later addition". It says quite the opposite.

Done with you. Jesus Christ literal mouth breathers like you should be allowed to be banned just because of these stupid posts.

>>2742428
I have brown hair and eyes. D-does that mean I'm actually french and not german?
Also, what does "yellow" skin even mean?

P.S. I reckon you're citing Tacitus with those 100BC-100AD ethnicities? Who never actually saw a german?

>>2741521
Archaic Dutch & and other Frankish dialects like Luxembourgish

>>2742428
Most Dutch are brown haired with brown eyes. Blue eyes are rare in the Netherlands and green eyes are a little bit more common than blue.

>>2738112
West-Francia had as much land as east-Francia after the partition, but in modern times France conquered large parts of east-Francia (including a lot of former Middle-Francian territories). So, in fact German (eastern residents of the former Frankish Empire) moved to the East. A great example of the remaining Frankish parts of France is Alsace, which makes clear why there is still a (Germanic) Frankish language spoken there.

>>2743050


You're 90% blond, and if some of you has such trait it is because you mongrelized with Spaniards during the Hasburg

>>2743029
>who never saw a German

His father may have been the Cornelius Tacitus who served as procurator of Belgica and GERMANIA; Pliny the Elder mentions that Cornelius had a son who aged rapidly (N.H. 7.76), which implies an early death. There is no mention of Tacitus suffering such a condition, but it is possible that this refers to a brother—if Cornelius was indeed his father.[8] The friendship between the younger Pliny and Tacitus leads some scholars to conclude that they were both the offspring of wealthy provincial families.[9]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus


>>2742982
>Old Frankish, the ancestor language to Dutch

That would be Frisian and Brabantian


There is no such thing as Old Frankish once again you didn't show any, you've just repeated like an autist "Old Dutch = Old Frankish" as if it was a fact

>>2743302
>That would be Frisian and Brabantian
No.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franconian_languages
Frisian isn't even a Franconian language. It's more closely related to English.
Stop shitposting and go read some stuff, seriously.

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>>2743316
>Franconian

So not Frankish but Franconian

Then call your meme language Old Franconian and stop inventing BS, batavian LARPer

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>>2743316
Also

There were never Franks on the east bank of the Rhine so your language doesn't come from them

>>2743353
>>2743373
>So not Frankish but Franconian
Same thing quite literally. Learn a bit of linguistics and maybe the page I linked just so you know what you're talking about next time.

Btw, both your sources are factually wrong. You talk about the origin of the name of the Netherlands as if that were of actual genealogical origin when it's clearly just an inspiration with no real evidence for hard factual ancestry. You say that "Franks were never on the east bank" despite the fact that that's literally where they came from in classical Roman times and the source you post describes the discrimination between Ripuarian Franks and Salic Franks whose distinction only appeared after the Franks had historically crossed the Rhine. Shameful display.

I'm not a Dutch either.

Good job, you incredibly disgraceful excuse of an idiot. Please stop posting at any time now.

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>>2743373
Batavi merged with Franks. Some Dutch are Frisian/Saxon as well, but all have Frankish with Batavian blood and even the Dutch language comes from the Franks. Just facts...

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> that that's literally where they came from in classical Roman times

Nope

The sources say they come from Pannonia, then they settled in Thuringia where they established long-haired kings, then they settled around Cambrai and the Somme, and finally settled between the Meuse and the Loire

>>2743521
>We wuz frankz n shei
Sure, Jan

>>2743629
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franks#Early_history
>first fought on the other side of the Rhine
>Frankish incursions over the Rhine start at around 200 AD
Is this a joke? Learn history, google stuff. Damn idiot.
In any case, what does this argument have anything to do with anything again? Oh right, the language thing. Which is more than proven to be a thing. Idiot again.
Let's not forget even the possibility that Frankish speaking people eventually settled east of the Rhine again later in history. Triple idiot.
Just stop posting, you give shame to this board.

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>>2743657
>wikipedia

Learn history yourself subhuman g*rmshit

I hope that more refugees will rape you subhuman blondcuck

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>>2743657
AND LEARN FROM YOUR FUCKING ANCESTORS WHO WERE WISER THAN YOU

>>2743758
>>2743764
Sad! Read more stuff, stop being so dumb.
Hope you have a nice day.

>>2743771
I have a nice day


Germany will soon turn into a shithole, while we elect the FN and cleansy our land

It is the best timeline to me and all of this was done by us French be it the destruction of Syria or Lybia


GESTA DEI PER FRANCOS

>>2743799
Wait you're French? Lmfao. I'm not even European lol but you're the one to talk. See ya next week when you finally become an islamic state, anon!

>>2738118
Look up the books 'Before France and Germany' and 'The Long-haired Kings.' They're a little older, but they're exactly what you're looking for.

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>>2743855
Pic related hans :)


You'll never something similar for AFD

You're dead

>>2742428
>>2739246
>>2741885
>>2742337
>>2742465
>>2742813
>>2743302
>>2739071

>being this insecure, autistic and /pol/-tier

The Franks spoke a language that gave birth to Low Franconian languages, of which Dutch is the most spoken national language these days. Charlemagne probably spoke a Rhenish dialect closest to modern Limburgish. That's a basic historolinguistic fact and you'd be a moron to deny it.

Bringing supposed racial differences into this i fucking retarded, both genetically and historically. The Franks were a tribal confederation that migrated between and conquered a large area. Even their 'homelands' wouldn't have been ethnically pure in any sense, composed of a lot of other Germanic tribes and dialects. They became a ruling elite in most of Gaul and Germania, they didn't replace the natives, they gradually merged with them. In the case of Germania they left their language and culture, in Gaul they left their laws and name. In any case, debating racial heritage is pointless because the genetic make-up of both Dutch- and Frenchmen didn't change substantially since the start of the Iron Age.

Rex Francorum means 'King of the Franks', not the 'French'. The notion of 'France' of the later Middle Ages didn't exist yet, let alone how we conceive it. Not to mention the fact that it doesn't say anything about ethnicity in the slightest. He was king of the Franks, who ruled a shitton of land with a lot of different peoples. Trying to implement modern nationstate-based notions of ethnicity on a very different Medieval conception is ludicrous.

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>>2744173
No such thing

All ttheir leader show Celtic Names


Sunno comes from the Celtic "sunno"(sun)
Samo comes from the Celtic "samo"(summer)
Teutomer comes from the Celtic "teuta" (people) mari(sea)
Ricimer comes from the Celtic "rix"(king) mari(sea)


>They became a ruling elite in most of Gaul and Germania, they didn't replace the natives

Fuck off subhuman mongrel

If you do not look like "your" ancestors it doesn't mean it is the same for us,

>Rex Francorum means 'King of the Franks', not the 'French'. The

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You have no knoledge of history

Rex Francorum is the title used by our Kings and by everyone to describe them

Pic related are the Council of the Catholic Church look at how it refer to the French and their king

>The notion of 'France' of the later Middle Ages didn't exist yet

France isn't a nation, mongrel fith

It is a land

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>>2744173
Open your eyes

>>2744173
Oh fuck off with your /pol/tard 19th century racial/ethnic nationalism shit, none of that existed in the Middle Ages.

France was France, Frank was the medieval word for French, and the king of France was king of the Franks.

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>>2737022
i cant believe they had area codes back then!

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>>2746012

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>>2742428
>>2739246
>>2741885
>>2742337
>>2742465
>>2742813
>>2743302
>>2739071
>>2744007
>>2745985
>>2745979

Reminder that this poster is literally a 15 year old pube faced algerian who believes the French descended from Trojans.

His whole inferiority complex derives from the fact that he looks like a shitskin so he has to prove the French were unique and looked like he did.

Pic sadly related...it's him

>>2746547

That pic looks like a fairly typical Frenchman.

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>>2746547

You're rude m8


These are Algerians

>>2746547
Looks like a particularly white Brit.

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>>2746547
>>2746571
>>2746587
>>2746588
Some posts showing his inferiority complex, mostly towards German

>>2738078
>>2738111
>>2742720
If I had to guess, he's been smoking on Fomenko.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Chronology_(Fomenko)

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>>2746547
>>2746571
>>2746587
>>2746588
>>2746605

>>2746610

That's too blurry, m8, I can't see what it is.

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>>2746547
>>2746605
>>2746610
OP Here


I just checked my ancestry and did not find any shitskins in it

But now that i think about i indeed show semitic features like Marcel Proust, and my IQ is far above the average French, but since i don't come from an area invaded by arabs i'm most likely a Jew, i will wait for 23andme to infirm or confirm my views

Anyway, from now on I'M A HEBREW MASTER RACE


Btw you're still mongrel my amerinegroe friend, same goes for you g*rmshit and anglocucks

>>2738964
Could new jersey conquer new york city?