World War One: what is /his/ opinion on it?

>>2730209
>Germany honors it's pact with Austria to protect it.
Germany was pressuring Austria for war, Germany wanted the war because it was Ann opportunity. And Wilhelm was a clueless retard who had no idea on foreign policy.

France is the only good guy.

>>Germany honors it's pact with Austria to protect it.

But when France honours it's pact with Russia it's
>>French uses it as an excuse to expand their empire even further

Yeah ok, buddy.

>The western powers get outraged Germany is rightfully protecting it's ally
>French uses it as an excuse to expand their empire even further
>Germany invades Belgium to avoid France
>Britain uses as excuse to attack Germany

w e w

>>2730209
The only genuine good guys were belgium, everyone else is at least some degree responsible

France tried to stop it a bit though and deserve credit for that

Russia and Germany are the primary villains

File: image.jpg (102KB, 381x512px) Image search: [Google]

102KB, 381x512px

>>2730216
>Willy was braindead.
Agreed. Good reaction image though.

>Germany was urging Austria for war
this is the equivalent if you being in an argument on the playground and a kid is chanting "FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT"

Belgium was declared neutral by the treaty of london in 1839. Germany invading belgium wasnt used as an "excuse" for Britain to enter the war, it was to preserve Belgium's neutrality.

Also, read the "rape of belgium" please.

>>2730236
>rape of belgium

Was massively exaggerated by typically high quality british propaganda

The germans werent nice by any stretch of the imagination but it was hardly a national rape

File: IMG_0331.jpg (426KB, 1800x1322px) Image search: [Google]

426KB, 1800x1322px

>>2730233
Inertia not you have access to the internet, look it up if you don't believe me phamalam

>>2730233

No it's not the equivalent of that you dumb fuck

Germany pledged to support Austria whatever they chose to do with Serbia, it's a blank check

>>2730239
OP here. This.
>>2730227
>Germany helping its neighbor
> Time to get back AL in a fight that is happening on the other end of the continent
Yes they are the same thing

>>2730209
>>Austrian officials discover ties between Serbian government and Black Hand
>>Austria sends warning to Serbia
>>Russia gets mad at Austria for retaliating against Serbia

Mischaracterization. Russia urged Serbia to back the fuck down and do whatever Austria asked- because they did not want a war and were not ready for one. This is why Serbia agreed to 90% of Austria's demands (even blatantly unreasonable ones like "arrest every notable newspaper distributors who says something bad about Austria") and only requested that the tenth demand be taken to the Hague. Germany (or rather Jagow, Moltke, and Hollweg) then intentionally exacerbated the situation by urging Austria towards war and writing them a blank check, even though Willy himself outright admitted that the Serbian response was entirely reasonable. What Russia could not accept was Serbia being extinguished from the Earth due to the actions of extremists. It was Austria that would not accept any compromise or mediation less than the complete subjugation of Serbia.

>>2730209
Willy is the true bad guy of WW1

>Fires Bismark the greatest living leader of the time.
>Does aggressive bullshit to compensate for his noodle arm.
>Thinks he can make military decisions cause 'muh royal honor'
>Allows the invasion of a completely neutral country.
>Fucks up cause he used a decades old strategy with modern technology.
>Treaty of Versailles happens cause of his dumb ass, limp dick 'i want to show up my cousins' bullshit.
>blamethefrench.exe
>Runs of to some Danish cabin and hides there while Germany gets flushed down the shitter.

>>2730246
Wrong post?
>>2730247
It kind of is. Plus you claimed Germany pushed for a war, whereas now you are saying that they said do whatever the hell you want, we're here for you bud .

>>2730258
Fair enough. Russia should have fucked off. Though

>>2730261
>Fires Bismark
Totally justified under the circumstances
>Does aggressive bullshit to compensate for his noodle arm
Willy's attitudes towards Germany's position on the world stage not being congruous to the nation's growing power & importance were pretty common, though he was prone to fits of extravagance.
>Thinks he can make military decisions cause 'muh royal honor'
He could, for one he had a martial education and more importantly like the President is COMMANDER AND CHIEF of the armed forces, the Kaiser was the supreme leader of the German army. He hardly meddled with his professional military staff during the war anyway.
>Allows the invasion of a completely neutral country
There was no alternative plan. It's not as if he drew up the plan in the first place. The invasion of Belgium was essentially unavoidable once war was decided upon.
>Fucks up cause he used a decades old strategy with modern technology.
I don't know where you're getting the idea that Wilhelm was personally responsible for the unique combination of strategic & technological development that made WW1 a war of attrition. Regardless it makes you look retarded to even suggest the idea.

All in all bad post, my dude.

File: IMG_0343.jpg (36KB, 425x329px) Image search: [Google]

36KB, 425x329px

>>2730280
>>2730261 #
>Fires Bismark
>Totally justified

>>2730261
To be fair, near the end of his life Bismark was going senile and wasn't the statesmen that he was when he united Germany. The rest is true though. It fucking amazes me how Willy managed to piss off so many powers in such a short time after Bismark spent a good portion of his time as chancellor of the German Empire just establishing and stabilizing relations.

>>2730287
Do you have even the slightest idea of the events surrounding Bismarck's resignation?

File: brain.png (460KB, 600x624px) Image search: [Google]

460KB, 600x624px

hmm...

>>2730209
What the fuck was Frances problem?
Were they still butthurt over being BTFO'd by the Germans?
What the fuck was Britain thinking?
>OI m8 them Jerrys are using our meme border thing to beat up the french our greatest rival!
>BLOODY HELL THROW EVERY MILITARY AGE MAN INTO THE MEAT GRINDER
>GREAT IDEA AND WE WILL GET AMERICA INVOLVED BY FIBBING ABOUT OUR CIVILIAN SHIP HOLDING SMALL ARMS MUNITIONS

>>2730302
Germany literally declared war on France and invaded them, what the fuck were they supposed to do? Die?

>>2730304
France did not help by being a butthurt faggots after the franco prussian war

File: IMG_4088.jpg (599KB, 1200x847px) Image search: [Google]

599KB, 1200x847px

>>2730209
There wasn't really anything good about WWI, and the only vilians being beurocracy, an untimely vacation, and a quagmire of forgien legal matters interfering with a murder investigation that was the July crisis.

>>2730308
France did literally nothing wrong in the lead-up to WW1. They even were willing to forgive a German patrol invading one of their villages and killing two soldiers even though that would've been the perfect excuse. It was entirely Germany's fault, their psychotic pre-war thinking literally required them to invade France if they get into a major war with anyone else.

>>2730216
I believe he took the most untimely vacation in history during the events leading up to the war.

>>2730291

Irelephant. Bismark made Germany - the Kaiser should have understood he was working for Bismark.

>>2730376
>historical fact is irrelevant because i'd rather hero worship

File: germans.png (45KB, 1071x486px) Image search: [Google]

45KB, 1071x486px

>>2730209

>>2730386

Fact is unimportant - only myth.

File: germans.jpg (1MB, 1031x1314px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1031x1314px

>>2730209
LMAO cry more faggot

>>2730405
You do remember that the "allies" or """""Good goys""""" i mean guys lost in the end as well correct?

File: The_Scrap_of_Paper_-_Enlist_Today.jpg (378KB, 1842x2800px) Image search: [Google]

378KB, 1842x2800px

>>2730209
>Germany invades Belgium to avoid France
>Britain uses as excuse to attack Germany

Your thread is stupid and you're stupid.

>The treaty was a fundamental "lawmaking" treaty that became a cornerstone of European international law; it was especially important in the events leading up to World War I.[9] On July 31st 1914, the mobilisation of the Belgian Army was ordered, and the Belgian King at the same time called publicly Europe´s attention to the fact that Germany, Great Britain and France were solemnly bound to respect and to defend the neutrality of his country.[10] When the German Empire invaded Belgium in August 1914 in violation of the treaty, the British declared war on 4 August.[11][12] Informed by the British ambassador that Britain would go to war with Germany over the latter's violation of Belgian neutrality, German Chancellor Theobald von Bethmann Hollweg exclaimed that he could not believe that Britain and Germany would be going to war over a mere 'scrap of paper'.

>>2730417
What do you mean? Germany capitulated and was divided between them

File: 1485896459183.jpg (69KB, 460x609px) Image search: [Google]

69KB, 460x609px

>>2730209
>Who were the good guys in WW1
The one that tried to prevent it.

>>2730209
Gr8 b8 m8 I r8 8/8
No one really wanted war apart from Germany as they had enough land already or were in the process of modernising their army
But you can't blame the whole nation so I put it on Kaiser Wilhelm II for dismissing Bismarck and not filling his cabinet with replacements, but also Konrad Von hotzendorf for trusting the eternal Teuton

>>2730550
So everyone apart from Germany?

>>2730562
Germany and Austria.

Note: not Austria-Hungary. The Hungarian half of the dual kingdom was against the war. And the other parts of the empire didn't exactly get a say.

>>2730264
Not >>2730247
Germany did push for it. It wasn't chanting and telling someone to fight, it was the equivalent of two 3rd graders fighting when one kid's dad show up to kick the other kid's ass.
Germany basically went
>you know, if you start a World War we would like totally have your back bro, don't even sweat the repurcussions for a second

>>2730562
My point was Bismarck was one of the good guys too.
See: sad Bismarck Wojack

>>2730270
They were protector of slavs

>>2730264
"bill, whatever you do i'll support you with my dad's pistol" and "fight, fight, fight!" Are two entirely different things.

>>2730441
If Belgium didn't exist, I bet WW1 would have never happened. it would have just been a pissing contest b/w Serbia and Austria.

>>2730592
???
Belgium was collateral. If anything, without Begium it was going to be a second, much longer Franco-Prussian War.

Don't know who was good but austria was definitely bad maybe turkey too but idk history is written by the winners

File: Download.jpg (9KB, 300x168px) Image search: [Google]

9KB, 300x168px

>>2730209
The common soldiers were the good guys. Also the Nurses, because everyone likes some cute girls that save their life just after they escaped the trenches.

File: IMG_2033.jpg (787KB, 2431x3508px) Image search: [Google]

787KB, 2431x3508px

>Belgium, we want to use all your railroads, roads and towns to invade France.

>No

>OK I SEE HOW IT IS YOU'VE DONE IT NOW LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO GO ACTUALLY NOW THAT WE'RE HERE LETS USE BELGIAN WORKERS FORCEFULLY TO MAKE SHELLS ALSO LETS RAPE THIS CHEAP FRANCOPHILE COUNTRY

Good guys.

>>2730209
Basically all the major powers were full of hubris and itching to thump the other guy to show how naughty they were behaving. None of them really had any claim to moral superiority.

- Austria-Hungary was an arrogant out-of-touch bully.
- Germany was an aggressive twat, with big muscles it just discovered coming out of puberty, but self-conscious about its little knob.
- France was arrogant on its high perch, and terrified of its eastern neighbours.
- Great Britain played it cooler, but was very concerned about its empire remaining the most (((profita)))-- I mean, strongest.
- Russia was mentally unstable, but wouldn't say no to sticking its fingers in the sweet delicious Polish virgin slits if it could.
- Italy was like that kid in class whose had a growth spurt and so looks big, but is still truly an immature weakling. Just wants to be the winners.
- every other combatant were either opportunists or gravitationally sucked in. This includes the US.

On the nation level, there aren't really any heroes.

>>2730209
DAILY REMINDER:
>100,000 Jews fought in a German uniform during World War I (making it the largest in number and in % minority group to fight for Germany)
>12,000 Jews gave their life for Germany during World War I
>18,000 Jews were awarded the Iron Cross during World War I
Who suffered the real stab in the back?

I never got how Austriohungarian empire fucked up so badly in the war.Also France was absolutely decimated, with a lot of men dead or maimed, meaning no suffiecient labour force, meaning France had to import men from their colonies, leading to the first black movements.

It is in fact fascinating how France almost got diplomatically isolated after occupying the Rhine to force the now dismantled german empire to pay their debts, which they never did, only a small portion was repaid.The only winners of ww1 were the US and the British Empire.The rest got absolutely ravaged, with 4 empires being dismantled (Ottoman,Austrohungarian,russian and german),and thus the first traces of decolonization can be spotted.

>>2730209
test

File: 1445451162985.jpg (141KB, 548x769px) Image search: [Google]

141KB, 548x769px

>>2730209
Unironically Gernanys fault to a large degree.

>>2730209
>Austria sends warning to Serbia

How ignorant are you?

They sent the following ultimatum to Serbia and demanded that it be fully accepted within 48 hours.

1.Suppress all publications which "incite hatred and contempt of the Austro-Hungarian Monarchy" and are "directed against its territorial integrity".

2.Dissolve the Serbian nationalist organisation Narodna Odbrana ("The People's Defense") and all other such societies in Serbia.

3.Eliminate without delay from schoolbooks and public documents all "propaganda against Austria-Hungary".

4.Remove from the Serbian military and civil administration all officers and functionaries whose names the Austro-Hungarian Government will provide.

5.Accept in Serbia "representatives of the Austro-Hungarian Government" for the "suppression of subversive movements".

6.Bring to trial all accessories to the Archduke's assassination and allow "Austro-Hungarian delegates" (law enforcement officers) to take part in the investigations.

7.Arrest Major Vojislav Tankosić and civil servant Milan Ciganović who were named as participants in the assassination plot.

8.Cease the cooperation of the Serbian authorities in the "traffic in arms and explosives across the frontier"; dismiss and punish the officials of Šabac and Loznica frontier service, "guilty of having assisted the perpetrators of the Sarajevo crime".

9.Provide "explanations" to the Austro-Hungarian Government regarding "Serbian officials" who have expressed themselves in interviews "in terms of hostility to the Austro-Hungarian Government".

10. Notify the Austro-Hungarian Government "without delay" of the execution of the measures comprised in the ultimatum.

Bear in mind that this is all because of a terrorist attack

Serbia was literally willing to accept all but 6. however Austria with German pressure refused this and knocked back all attempts at mediation or holding a summit to prevent war and invaded Serbia anyway.

>>2730751
What does these three parentheses mean?

File: ''stab in the back''.png (3MB, 1482x969px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 1482x969px

>>2730769

File: 1488291177735.jpg (40KB, 600x379px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 600x379px

>>2730869
Today in "Pictures that make your very uncomfortable":

>>2730574
>Wojack
Oh, you shouldnt be here.

>>2730209
Anyone who posts "who were the good guys" on /his/ needs an automatic ban.

>>2731708
Man, when people are the part of bad history, they are bad guys. It is not cool.

File: 12599328_180103129027182_1528478006_n.jpg (40KB, 640x640px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 640x640px

would the world be better if Germany had won?

File: 1477677240687.jpg (28KB, 400x396px) Image search: [Google]

28KB, 400x396px

>It's a "wehraboo desperately tries to defend the decisions of the Germans" thread

>>2730441
>German Chancellor Theobald von Bethmann Hollweg exclaimed that he could not believe that Britain and Germany would be going to war over a mere 'scrap of paper'.

I think this sums up the German attitude in general. They liked to go on about how similar they were to the British, but fundamentally didn't understand the concept of honour.

I'm not saying that the British were honourable, they did a lot of shit too, but I think it's the big difference between the two.

>>2730868
They're an effective way of knowing that a person is talking shit. If you see them in a post, you can stop reading in good conscience.

it was a stupid fucking war that should never have happened, and certainly shouldn't have progressed beyond austro-hungary vs. serbia.

take note lads, this is what happens with globalism: hundreds of millions of people split up into two groups based on alliances drawn up by people who are confident that they'll never have to handle a gun, and before you know it untold british, germans, french, italians and russians end up face down in the mud because a serbian shot an austrian. and that's without counting the colonials

>>2731819
Nope. Probably the commies take control in France too.

>>2730769
Source?

>>2730852
Also, the public censorship of anything that could be viewed as anti KuK was a big issue. King Peter completely stopped any and all government meddling in the press when he came to power in 1903, and was a big fan of liberalism, minimal government and is the translator of the works of John Locke to Serbian.
Might i add at the trial all of the accused members of Young Bosnia proclaimed that they were anarchists, and when confronted about some of them exclaiming the name of King Peter, they stated that a Monarch and King Peter are two completely different things.

>tfw if Ol' Willy didn't have a shriveled fucking arm that he was constantly self-conscious about WWI might have been averted

>>2730565
Most of Austria didn't want war
Hell they hated the german Alliance as it meant they would be separated from their fellow Germans at least until this cripple died
>>2730574
>Bismarck
>good guy
>a Prussian ever being good
Dude stopped France becoming a constitutional monarchy, and put Germany in the position where it didn't necessarily have to keep alliances to win, hence why they don't renew the pact of the three emperors
Also he didn't recreate Poland

>>2730592
Britain would have stayed out but financed the French.
Germany would have still been autistic and turned a diplomatic dispute into fighting two great powers

>>2730679
>Austria was bad
Franz Josef was barely convinced to go to war, how can you not blame Germany and Wilhelm in particular
Also ottomans are bad simply for Armenian and Greek genocides, and for not genociding themselves
>>2730704
B-b-but he had such a cool moustache how could he be evil

File: image.jpg (22KB, 640x360px) Image search: [Google]

22KB, 640x360px

>>2730209
>Germany invades Belgium to avoid France
wot

File: sun.jpg (42KB, 512x512px) Image search: [Google]

42KB, 512x512px

>>2730417
You do remember that the Sun, the so called "source of warmth and illumination that enables organic life" eventually had his avatar of flame destroyed by The Jordanite Confederacy in the fourth Space Jam conflict, causing him to lose most of his power and be enslaved by the Jews and their dreaded solar harness. You know this, correct?

>>2730869
>>2730769
1918 Socialist revolution.

Sins of the few affect the many.

>>2732896
http://www.volksbund.de/volksbund-volkstrauertag/deutsche-juedische-soldaten.html

>>2730216
It wasn't add opportunity, it was the LAST opportunity. Within a few years, Russia would have industrialized to the point that it would be able to completely dominate all of Eastern Europe. Germany had to strike quickly, or become a permanent second fiddle

>>2730209
>yfw you will never be a prince of the trenches
I just wanna appear outta the fog one morning and brain some british nigger with a shovel
is that too much to ask

>>2730852
I thought it was austria that wanted to use the assassination as an excuse to remove the serbian thorn in their sides, and that they made that ultimatum (without telling germany about it) specifically so that the serbians would deny it and they could declare war?
Not a werhaboo pls don't bully

>>2730318
They could have openly stated that they weren't going to enable Russian dick measuring in the Balkans instead is being overly coy faggots

>>2733039
it was easier for the main german thrust to go through belgium than it would have been for it to go through france

>>2730852
jesus christ how self conscious were those fucks

>>2730318
>psychotic pre-war thinking
not a wehraboo but the schlieffen plan was really their only option if they had to fight france and russia at the same time

>>2734807
The ultimatum was designed so that the serbians wouldn't agree to it so the austrians could use that as a reason to declare war
don't know why they beat around the bush and just declared war on them though, not like they were gonna lose any allies over it

>>2734809
The problem was that they assumed that any fight with another major power would be a full on total war with France. That more than anything else made a world war completely unavoidable.

>>2734812
>The ultimatum was designed so that the serbians wouldn't agree to it so the austrians could use that as a reason to declare war
yeah that was pretty much my understanding of it, I've never actually read the conditions offered though, I just remember them being referred to as "built to be rejected." those are absolutely bananas though. they might as well have just said "serbia is now a part of the AH empire and nobody is allowed to be upset about it."

>don't know why they beat around the bush and just declared war on them though, not like they were gonna lose any allies over it
total speculation here, but my guess would be that doing it that way may gain favor with neutral states? like, AH is able to say "WE OFFERED THEM PEACE BUT THEY REJECTED IT"

>>2734812
Italy is the reason. Austria wanted to at least make a token effort at appearing not to be the aggressor, because the third member of their triple alliance was going to use any excuse possible to pull out of it. Which happened anyway.

>>2734780
>sends lenin to russia

>>2734840
>gain favor with neutral states
I can see that, but the ultimatum seems so heavy handed that I seriously doubt they could use that argument
>>2734845
not like the italians really mattered, anyways

>>2734780
Maybe like keep that alliance with Russia

>>2734853
>not like the italians really mattered, anyways

Austria-Hungary suffered millions of casualties fighting the Italians and the Italians are who ultimately killed their country.

>>2734840
Serbia accepts all but one term
That Austrian investigators work in Serbia
This was rejected as it basically meant Serbia was not independent

>>2734809
>their only option
You do know they just made the french army quicker to deploy as a result of the Franco Prussian war
That's it

>>2734952
>tfw your cunt's army was so shit in ww1 they suffered millions of casualties fighting italians

>>2734799
>pan-slavism was dick measuring
Really made me think anon
>>2734802
What did they do in the Franco Prussian war

>>2734781
>British nigger

>>2734964
sorry, let me rephrase that
some random white british nigger

>>2734964
>this is your brain on DICE
ftfy

>>2731819
Assuming before they sent a certain troublemaker to Russia, yes. Without a doubt.

>>2730209
How much of a fucking Wehraboo can one be? This is practically parody.

>>2734971
No in BF1 it's an Indian, America has 3 blacks

>>2734984
>german imperialism was better than English imperialism
Ya what m8

>>2734791
You are right about the Austria goals but not about their approach

>At that meeting of the Crown Council, all involved were in full favour of war except Count Tisza.[57] Count Tisza warned that any attack on Serbia "would, as far as can humanly be foreseen, lead to an intervention by Russia and hence a world war".[56] The rest of the participants debated about whether Austria should just launch an unprovoked attack or issue an ultimatum to Serbia with demands so stringent that it was bound to be rejected.[57] The Austrian Prime Minister, Count Karl von Stürgkh, warned Tisza that if Austria did not launch a war, its "policy of hesitation and weakness" would cause Germany to abandon Austria-Hungary as an ally.[57] All present except Tisza finally agreed that Austria-Hungary should present an ultimatum designed to be rejected.[56]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_Crisis#German_attitude_to_war

The Germans knew full well what was going on and put pressure on the already war mongering Austrian Government to invade Serbia as they believed (and with good reason) that unless they attacked Russia and France soon those countries would grow too powerful and would dominate germany in the future

>>2730209

it was a terrible clusterfuck that was 40 years in the making at that point, WW1 was the most cardinal example of shere stupidity and absurdity of war, it basicaly shocked people into becoming avare of how retarded they are and how dangerous that is, there were no ''good guys''

>>2730209
Germany and all the allies who fought against roaches

>>2735285
The Austrian government was not warmongering, it was opportunistic, hell one possible chain of events is franz-Jospeh forming Austria-Hungary-Yugoslavia, also both Ferdinand and his successor were anti german

>>2735305
>Teutons
>ever being good
WEW lad

>>2730852
After i read the ultimatum for this first time, it got me thinking. What if Austria-Hungary had set up the assassination? I mean the Archduke was pretty much the most hated person in Austrian politics, and they sent him to a recently annexed city, on a provocative date with lax security and a driver who's never been to the city before.
The Serbian secret organization is also shady as fuck and speculated to be a Russian organization. What if it was Austrian?

>>2735366
If that was the case the austrians would probably have taken more super sekret steps to weaken the serbian army so they wouldn't get absolutely BTFO'd

>>2735366
>the Austrians planned this all out but couldn't figure out how railways worked

>>2730209
>French uses it as an excuse to expand their empire even further
Or maybe retake what belonged to them

>>2735316
>The Austrian government was not warmongering, it was opportunistic

I did not say that they were. However they certainly wanted to invade Serbia rather than just pacify nationalists.

>>2735366

>Austrian investigators into the assassination of Franz Ferdinand reported to Count Berchtold that:

>"There is nothing to prove or even to suppose that the Serbian government is accessory to the inducement for the crime, its preparations, or the furnishing of weapons. On the contrary, there are reasons to believe that this altogether out of the question."[73]

>This report depressed Berchtold as it meant there was little evidence to support his pretext of Serbian government involvement in Franz Ferdinand's assassination.[73]

>Count Franz Conrad von Hötzendorf, Chief of the General Staff of the Austro-Hungarian Army from 1906 to 1917, determined the earliest that Austria could declare war was 25 July.

>On 14 July, the Austrians assured the Germans that the ultimatum to be delivered to Serbia "is being composed so that the possibility of its acceptance is practically excluded".[56] That same day, Count Conrad von Hötzendorf, the Chief of the General Staff of the Austro-Hungarian Army, told Berchtold that due to his desire to get the summer harvest in, the earliest that Austria could declare war was 25 July.[74] At the same time, the visit of the French President and Premier to St. Petersburg meant that it was considered undesirable to present the ultimatum until the visit was over.[75] The ultimatum, officially called a demarche, would not be delivered until 23 July with an expiry date of 25 July.[73]

Whilst they didnt set it up I agree that they definitely wanted some incident to flare up

>>2730209

>the eternal Teuton once again destroys Europe
>"hurr dey didnu nuffin"

>>2730209

Germany should have been dissolved in 1918 and given away to other countries, also the German language should have been banned

>>2733035
>ottomans are bad simply for Armenian and Greek genocides

what the fuck am I reading

>>2730287
He was old-type leader. In XX centaury when Germany enters into weltpolitik Bismark was already a archaism, he also made few bad decisions like kulturkampf or trying keeping aliance with russia

File: FB_IMG_1493466972147.jpg (62KB, 1137x640px) Image search: [Google]

62KB, 1137x640px

>Good Guys Tier:
Belgium
Luxembourg
Portugal

>Doing their Duty and National Liberation Tier:
Russia
Serbia
Montenegro
Hejaz
Greece
Romania
Italy
USA
British Dominions
Senussi Order
Dervish State

>We helped the Good Guys too Tier
Central American States
Brazil
Siam

>*slides into your Legations tier*
Japan

>Get busy living or get busy dying Tier
Ottoman Empire
Bulgaria

>Maybe I want a World War? Tier
France
Germany

>Give me Slavs! Give me Slavs Now Tier!
Austria-Hungary

>Give me Colonies! Give me Colonies Now! Tier
United Kingdom

its disgusting but literally any conflict australia has ever touched turns to gold

>>2735647
Sykes Picot puts France on the lowest too. Also where's Germany mang?

>>2736375
never mind

>>2730209
>Who were the good guys in WW1?
The young men who were forced to die, the bad guys were the monarchs who were threw everything away for a dick measuring contest

>>2730209

That is a gross simplification of what happened.

>>2735651
More like Goldipolli

Out of control generals in most of the countries had a large part in bringing the war about.

>>2736395
Commieeducation.tm

>>2736455
>being against tyranny and arbitrary wars over someone else's ego is commie
I'm a full on garl margsis then

>>2735647
>Doing their Duty and National Liberation Tier:
>Italy
>Südtirol is Italian.

I mean, come on. Don't wanna gang up on the Umbertos but still, Irrendentism is a bullshit excuse to some of the Italian demands.

>>2735647
Japan should be solidly good guy tier. They entered the war in surprisingly good faith (alliance with Britain) and played a major part in escorting supply ships in the Med even though they very easily could have stopped at grabbing Tsingtao and a few islands.

>inb4 muh Pacific colonies

These were not actually worth much of anything, certainly less than the resources they expended to help the Allies at no return.

>>2736748
Interesting how WWI was a much more important development for Japan than Japanese involvement was for WWI

File: 1492766875886.png (804KB, 753x699px) Image search: [Google]

804KB, 753x699px

>Germany declares war on and invades France and a British ally completely unprovoked after basically forcing Austria to do the same thing to a Russian ally
>dude there were no real bad guys and everyone is equally at fault lmao

>I don't think my post that well through
>Basic outline of the fact that France and the UK were at fault for turning a minor conflict into a full on /pol/ shitstorm
Although I agree with OP, he's kill or laffin right now

>>2736758
>invades France completely unprovoked
>"France, do you have any intention of getting involved if we fight Russia?"
>"Who knows, invade them and find out, hon hon hon."

>>2730220
France was the only bad guy. They were directly responsible for WW2 because "hurr we have to destroy Germany and Austria"

>>2736758
Austria was waging a war on terror. As we saw with the US war on afghanistan, international terrorism is an acceptably-just cause for war.

Serbians are to blame for being terrorists.
Russians and French are to blame for protecting terrorists.
Britain is to blame for having literally no business on the continent, but wanting to stick their fingers into everything just because that's how they get their jollies off.

>>2735647
>Romania
Romania was a piece of shit.

They were actually allied to Germany, but when the war broke out, they declared neutrality. Then they broke their neutrality and joined the opposite site when they saw an opportunity. Then they were defeated and surrendered. Then they broke the surrender and attacked again when they saw an opportunity. Then they made an agreement with Hungary when it became independent. Then they broke the agreement and attacked Hungary when they saw an opportunity. Then they made peace with Hungary. Then they broke the peace and attacked again when they saw an opportunity.

It's ridiculous how corrupt these scumbags were. I don't think they've ever waged a war in their entire history where they didn't break at least 4 or 5 treaties.

They did the same thing in WW2, where they flip-flopped from Polish allies to German allies to Russian allies just to annex North Transylvania, which is historically and ethnically majority Hungarian.

>>2737669
>Austria was waging a war of terror
ftfy, just look at the state of Servia after the war

Germany and Austria kicked off a chain of events that led to war in a tense geopolitical environment.

Austrian demands on Serbia were ridiculous and the fact that they met a vast majority of them and the Austrians, instead of compromising, declared war really shows that their intentions were. Germany basically egged them on and told them they were okay to do it as well.

>>2737695
What state? They were given all of Croatia, Vojvodina and Slovenia.

They were tripled in size.

Look at the state of Austria-Hungary after the war.

French are the real terrorists, desu. Ever since the beginning of French history, they felt like it was their right to redraw the borders of Europe however they saw fit, without any regard to the people who lived there.

>>2737702
>Austrian demands on Serbia were ridiculous
NO. NO THEY WERE NOT.

I am fucking sick of people saying this just because they heard it on the history channel.

It's a fucking stupid statement.

You can look up the Austrian demands, you can find them on wikipedia if you want.

The demands are essentially: they wanted Serbia's government to end anti-austrian propaganda in its newspapers and schools. They wanted Serbia's government to extradite international terrorists to Austria, and they wanted the Serbian government to cooperate with Austrian police in investigations.

What about that is unreasonable, considering the Serbian government were found to have literally funded a group that assassinated the country's heir?

France, Germany, Austria and Russia were all spoiling for a fight. Britain complicated matters needlessly by their back-door dealings with France and hesitation when shit was about to kick off.

>>2735447
I know it's far fetched, ant their mobilization was fucking hilarious, but there's just too much fucking convenience.

>>2737730
>Russia were all spoiling for a fight

Objectively untrue. Russia kept trying to defuse the situation because they weren't ready for a fight. Germany kept dousing it with gasoline because they wanted a fight NOW, while its was at its strongest relative to its neighbors.

>>2737760

Very true about Germany. They thought war and a final showdown for dominance for Europe was inevitable, so better have it now before Russia goes full industrial.

>>2737764
Because it's true.

Britain was pissy about Germany having a navy and colonies in Africa that they wanted.

France was pissy about being rightfully forced to pay reparations for attacking Germany and trying to annex the Rhineland.

Russia was pissy because they wanted control of the balkans and nobody was giving it to them.

Germany didn't care about any of this shit, it just wanted to maintain the status quo, but was being agitated against on all sides.

Austria-Hungary just wanted the Serbian government to stop sponsoring terrorism, and to deliver the culprits responsible for the assassination.

>>2730209
The whole thing was Russia's fault, and they didn't even stick it out the whole war. WW1 should have ended with peace without victory but the European butthurt brigade had to get their gibs from Germany and ended up causing WW2.

>>2737704
>What state?
Physical state

>>2737760
>mobilizing your armies
>trying to defuse the situation
Russia was just covering it's ass so they could accuse Germany of starting it.

>>2730209
>Austria sends warning to Serbia
No, they sent them an ultimatum that said comply to our outrageous demands or we'll invade.
>Germany invades Belgium to avoid France
You fucking idiot. The Schliffien Plan was to get to Paris via Belgium to circumvent Frances defense

>>2737868
>No, they sent them an ultimatum that said comply to our outrageous demands or we'll invade.
See >>2737722

Literally what part of "STOP MURDERING MY FAMILY MEMBERS" is outrageous?

>>2737722
Because they agreed to all points bar one, which can be found here >>2730852

>6.Bring to trial all accessories to the Archduke's assassination and allow "Austro-Hungarian delegates" (law enforcement officers) to take part in the investigations.

>6. The Royal Government considers it its duty as a matter of course to begin an investigation against all those persons who have participated in the outrage of June 28th and who are in its territory. As far as the cooperation in this investigation of specially delegated officials of the I. and R. Government is concerned, this cannot be accepted, as this is a violation of the constitution and of criminal procedure. Yet in some cases the result of the investigation might be communicated to the Austro-Hungarian officials.

Is it not totally unreasonable to not allow foreign police to conduct themselves in your country
>>2737905
The part were
>>2735498
>"There is nothing to prove or even to suppose that the Serbian government is accessory to the inducement for the crime, its preparations, or the furnishing of weapons. On the contrary, there are reasons to believe that this altogether out of the question."[73

The Austrian demands of Serbia:
>1. Suppress all publications which "incite hatred and contempt of the Austro-Hungarian Monarchy" and are "directed against its territorial integrity".
What's unreasonable about demanding the government to cease their agitations for war and end pro-terrorist propaganda?
>2. Dissolve the Serbian nationalist organisation Narodna Odbrana ("The People's Defense") and all other such societies in Serbia.
What's unreasonable about disbanding a terrorist organization?
>3. Eliminate without delay from schoolbooks and public documents all "propaganda against Austria-Hungary".
Same as 1, what's unreasonable about demanding Serbia to stop spreading pro-terrorist propaganda?
>4. Remove from the Serbian military and civil administration all officers and functionaries whose names the Austro-Hungarian Government will provide.
All the names given were those who were linked to the attack.
5. Accept in Serbia "representatives of the Austro-Hungarian Government" for the "suppression of subversive movements".
What's unreasonable about allowing Austrian diplomats to consult with the Serbian government on terrorist suppression?
cont'd

>>2737930
>6. (The one Serbia rejected) Bring to trial all accessories to the Archduke's assassination and allow "Austro-Hungarian delegates" (law enforcement officers) to take part in the investigations.
Literally, Serbia didn't want to allow an international investigation into its funding of terrorism, which is why they rejected the demands.
>7. Arrest Major Vojislav Tankosić and civil servant Milan Ciganović who were named as participants in the assassination plot.
Same thing, naming the most direct participants.
>8. Cease the cooperation of the Serbian authorities in the "traffic in arms and explosives across the frontier"; dismiss and punish the officials of Šabac and Loznica frontier service, "guilty of having assisted the perpetrators of the Sarajevo crime".
Stopping the arming of terrorists across the borders, reasonable.
>9. Provide "explanations" to the Austro-Hungarian Government regarding "Serbian officials" who have expressed themselves in interviews "in terms of hostility to the Austro-Hungarian Government".
Literally just asking for an apology
>10. Notify the Austro-Hungarian Government "without delay" of the execution of the measures comprised in the ultimatum.
Literally just specifying the immediacy of the request

>>2737930
>1.During the next regular meeting of the Skuptschina to embody in the press laws a clause, to wit, that the incitement to hatred of, and contempt for, the Monarchy is to be most severely punished, as well as every publication whose general tendency is directed against the territorial integrity of Austria-Hungary.

>2 The Government possesses no proofs and the note of the I. and R. Government does not submit them that the society _Narodna_ _Odbrana_ and other similar societies have committed, up to the present, any criminal actions of this manner through any one of their members. Notwithstanding this, the Royal Government will accept the demand of the I. and R. Government and dissolve the society _Narodna_ _Odbrana_, as well as every society ... against Austria-Hungary.

>3 The Royal Serbian Government binds itself without delay to eliminate from the public instruction in Serbia anything which might further the propaganda directed against Austria-Hungary provided the I. and R. Government furnishes actual proofs of this propaganda.

>4 The Royal Government is also ready to dismiss those officers and officials from the military and civil services in regard to whom it has been proved by judicial investigation that they have been guilty of actions against the territorial integrity of the Monarchy; it expects that the I. and R. Government communicate to it for the purpose of starting the investigation the names of these officers and officials, and the facts with which they have been charged.

>5.The Royal Government confesses that it is not clear about the sense and the scope of that demand of the I. and R. Government which concerns the obligation on the part of the Royal Serbian Government to permit the cooperation of officials of the I. and R. Government on Serbian territory, but it declares that it is willing to accept every cooperation which does not run counter to international law and criminal law, as well as to the friendly and neighbourly relations.

>>2737722
AFAIK they wanted their police to conduct investigation on Serbian soil. At that time it was big no no, although today it is pretty nirmal thing.

>>2737922
>>6. The Royal Government considers it its duty as a matter of course to begin an investigation against all those persons who have participated in the outrage of June 28th and who are in its territory. As far as the cooperation in this investigation of specially delegated officials of the I. and R. Government is concerned, this cannot be accepted, as this is a violation of the constitution and of criminal procedure. Yet in some cases the result of the investigation might be communicated to the Austro-Hungarian officials.
Yeah, so you think that the Serbian government, who sponsored this terrorist group, should also be the one to conduct an investigation into it, with no international oversight.

That's like asking the Taliban to be the judge of Osama Bin Laden's trial over 9/11

>>2730236

So you would deny the well documented fact that the British threatened Belgium with war if they simply allowed the German soldier to pass through?

The French didn't bother to fortify their border with Belgium, and military planners sadistically used "neutral" Belgium as a meat shield.

>>2737938
>Literally, Serbia didn't want to allow an international investigation into its funding of terrorism, which is why they rejected the demands.
If they did accepted Austrian policemen running around arresting their citizens, they might as well join the monarchy.

>Reading all the demands at face value
You'll be a terrible diplomat

>>2737946
>"There is nothing to prove or even to suppose that the Serbian government is accessory to the inducement for the crime, its preparations, or the furnishing of weapons. On the contrary, there are reasons to believe that this altogether out of the question

Go to bed Hötzendorf

>>2737958
>>"There is nothing to prove or even to suppose that the Serbian government is accessory to the inducement for the crime, its preparations, or the furnishing of weapons. On the contrary, there are reasons to believe that this altogether out of the question
-t. The Prince of Serbia (just trust me, stupid kraut)

>>2730209
Central Powers should've won. There'd be no Nazis, no Commies and the majority of Europe would be at a relative peace under German economic rule with France and Russia basically spayed and neutered and Germany in the dominant position in the continent and the world. Old-style monarchism would still be relevant and democracy would've never become the retarded, faggot meme government it is today since America would've probably remained more isolationist.

France, Britain and Russia were old, hasbeens who were jealous of the glory and might of the new German Empire. It's so sad that Germany lost all of her potential in that war and handed power to Hitler who only demolished it even more.

We probably could've had a century of relative peace and prosperity if the Central Powers had actually achieved the victory they so nearly did.

>>2737957
"Bubububut they secretly wanted more!"

LOL, why don't you look at this beyond the face value. The Austrians were going to flood Serbia with policemen and annex them? LOL. Just face it, the Serbian government refused to allow Austrian police to investigate the murder because they would be found guilty and it would go all the way to the highest level. The Serbian government just played dumb because they didn't want to do this. "Hurr I don't know what you mean. Do you mean that ALL investigations would be done by Austria? Durr"

>>2737963
>Three days later, he reported his findings. To the chagrin of the monarchy's decision makers, the investigation could provide no concrete proof of Belgrade complicity with the assassination

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Bl9rc2xOVJ8C&pg=PA64&lpg=PA64&dq=friedrich+von+wiesner+wwi&source=bl&ots=EMY7wF545Q&sig=RTH1W-RMY0Bh1z_gViQp4QLip7w&hl=en&sa=X&ei=fqiyU9yOEsWg7Aai9YGACw&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=friedrich%20von%20wiesner%20wwi&f=false

>>2737974
>Implying Austria would start a war solely to investigate a murder of Kaiser's relative he didn't even liked

Again, you'll be a terrible diplomat.

>>2737963
> The Austrian investigators had found that "There is nothing to prove or even to suppose that the Serbian government is accessory to the inducement for the crime, its preparations, or the furnishing of weapons. On the contrary, there are reasons to believe that this altogether out of the question"

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=afqDYpXPy3AC&pg=PA169&lpg=PA169&dq=There+is+nothing+to+prove+or+even+to+suppose+that+the+Serbian+government+is+accessory+to+the+inducement+for+the+crime,+its+preparations,+or+the+furnishing+of+weapons.+On+the+contrary,+there+are+reasons+to+believe+that+this+altogether+out+of+the+question&source=bl&ots=bLUYxEYl3o&sig=EsL2HCzIjUWAsU61Cy2InV8Go_o&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiD0KX0j83TAhVpBsAKHYZ0BU8Q6AEILjAB#v=onepage&q=There%20is%20nothing%20to%20prove%20or%20even%20to%20suppose%20that%20the%20Serbian%20government%20is%20accessory%20to%20the%20inducement%20for%20the%20crime%2C%20its%20preparations%2C%20or%20the%20furnishing%20of%20weapons.%20On%20the%20contrary%2C%20there%20are%20reasons%20to%20believe%20that%20this%20altogether%20out%20of%20the%20question&f=false

>>2737984
>>2737994
Thanks for linking me to a censored page that only gives the message "You've reached the reading limit for this book".

How the fuck can you claim that there's conclusive evidence the Serbian government wasn't implicit when the Serbs never allowed any investigation?

>>2737990
Austria wanted to apprehend those responsible, who obviously included terrorist sympathizers in the Serbian government.

You'd make an absolutely horrible diplomat for not realizing how goddamn suspicious it is that Serbia is not agreeing to any level of international cooperation or oversight whatsoever.

>>2730209
>ties between Serbian government and black hand
horse shit
Austria: Badguys
Serbia: Good guys (lol)
Everyone else: collateral damage

>>2730227
>Germany protecting its ally
>its ally who wrongfully wants to ANNEX Serbia because of the Black Hand
>French literally honoring a treaty
>Britian LITERALLY warns Germany not to invade Belgium ahead of time
heh

inb4 "Versailles was too harsh of a treaty"

>>2738883
>>Germany protecting its ally
True
>>its ally who wrongfully wants to ANNEX Serbia because of the Black Hand
False. Austria wanted to investigate Serbian civil servants with ties to the Black Hand. Serbian government refused because they were complicit.
>>French literally honoring a treaty
What treaty? The fuck up Europe for no reason pact?
>>Britian LITERALLY warns Germany not to invade Belgium ahead of time
Britain also warned Belgium that they would invade them if they let German soldiers pass through.
>heh
Heh

>>2738897
more like "Germany never did anything wrong ever in all of all time" the thread

File: 12312314.jpg (370KB, 1366x1167px) Image search: [Google]

370KB, 1366x1167px

>>2738863
>Hey, we're giving in to all your demands apart from the one that violates our sovereignty as an independent nation.(I mean you cant just demand a foreign legal system suddenly having authority in someone elses country)
>Thats fine, we understand, we are just going to declare war on you three days from now and start shelling your capital in four. This is appropriate for what happened, we cant even say your government did this.

>>2738942
This is factually accurate. The Germans were the greatest race in Europe. The French are just godless liberals who spent most of their history killing goodly priests. The Russians are backwater peasants from the middle of nowhere. The English are just white jews.

Germans basically invented modern European civilization as we know it, and it's no surprise that civilization as we know it is in decline now that the Germans have been wiped out and no longer exist.

>>2739140
This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Why were Nazi officials held at trial then by English and Soviet leaders then? Isn't this a violation of sovereignty? Shouldn't they have been tried by their own government? That's your logic.

International affairs require an international court.

>>2739169
The part where the Nazi government actual took part in the crimes they got indicted for.Did you miss the part where the agreed to arrest all members of the plot. And your talking about an international court before the idea of an international court really existed. Should we just let AH decide what it gets? I mean they ignored other countries like the UK's attempts at mediation

>>2736410
literally tell me one conflict aus touched that turned to shit

in terms of aus being seen as eternal good guys MATE

Obviously the ottoman empire

when you are a dominant power in Europe but you are allied to two of the most incompetent powers, having one switch sides and then filling their place with the most incompetent power in the middle east

>>2739159
>created civilisation
>took them 300 years to create empires later than all other european countries

>>2738918
>what treaty
Mutual self defence treaty
>uk wanred belgium
source

>>2737966
>no commies
You know it's Germany that sends Lenin to Russia right

>>2735647
>UK wanted war
but why

>>2737863
t. guy who's never been in a fight

>>2737844

>>2737825
>be Serbia, a young country that took decades to cast off shackles of Ottoman rule
>but some Serbian ("Serbo-Croatian") lands are still under Ottoman or other thumbs.
>trying to get them united
>All of a sudden, sensing Ottoman weakness, A-H muscles in and annexes Bosnia to the protest of pretty much everyone.
>Serbians just kinda sorta pissed off, but too weak/new to do anything about
>Bosnians kind of pissed off too. At the time, joining Serbia very popular idea
>A-H doesn't want a rival regional power to its weak hold on erstwhile Balkan/Adriatic possessions
>finally, a small political group think "no srsly, fuck this shit"
>plan to assassinate the old feeble cuck Emperor when he next visits
>it actually works, the madmen
>In retaliation, A-H puts ridiculous unconditional demands on Serbia, whose leaders had nothing formally to do with a what small terrorist cell do
>Serbia tries to appease A-H at first
>Nothing is good enough, A-H itching for a fight
>attacks Serbia anyway
>shit kicks off

File: 1489040317389.jpg (15KB, 540x402px) Image search: [Google]

15KB, 540x402px

>ywn fight in the biggest beta uprising in history under Von Moltke the braindead

Why even live?

>>2730233
>this is the equivalent if you being in an argument on the playground and a kid is chanting "FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT"
nah, it's more like being in an argument on a playground and a kid hands you a crowbar

>>2737825
>germany wanted the status quo
yeah that's why in the Telegraph interview he speaks of liberating Africa

>>2737722
>NO. NO THEY WERE NOT.

Thats funny because they literally had a conference about a moth earlier on whether they should just invade or create an unreasonable ultimatum then invade.

"At that meeting of the Crown Council, all involved were in full favour of war except Count Tisza.[57] Count Tisza warned that any attack on Serbia "would, as far as can humanly be foreseen, lead to an intervention by Russia and hence a world war".[56] The rest of the participants debated about whether Austria should just launch an unprovoked attack or issue an ultimatum to Serbia with demands so stringent that it was bound to be rejected.[57] The Austrian Prime Minister, Count Karl von Stürgkh, warned Tisza that if Austria did not launch a war, its "policy of hesitation and weakness" would cause Germany to abandon Austria-Hungary as an ally.[57] All present except Tisza finally agreed that Austria-Hungary should present an ultimatum designed to be rejected.[56]"

>The demands are essentially:

>Despite Tisza's opposition, Berchtold had ordered his officials to start drafting an ultimatum to Serbia on 10 July.[63] The German Ambassador reported that "Count Berchtold appeared to hope that Serbia would not agree to the Austro-Hungarian demands, as a mere diplomatic victory would put the country here again in a stagnant mood".[63] Count Hoyos told a German diplomat "that the demands were really of such a nature that no nation that still possessed self-respect and dignity could possibly accept them".[63]

>Szögyény reported from Berlin that everyone in the German government wanted to see Austria-Hungary declare war on Serbia at once, and were tired of Austrian indecision about whether to choose war or peace

>The demands are essentially
A farce as the background documents reveal.

>>2737974
>LOL, why don't you look at this beyond the face value.

See >>2741463 we literally have documents showing that they were not designed to be taken at face value and were just a pretext for invasion.

File: ww1-b-686-turkey.jpg.jpg (53KB, 817x526px) Image search: [Google]

53KB, 817x526px

>>2739271
The Ottoman Empire was just kinda funny, they kept on sitting on the fence not 100% sure of what they wanted to get out the war but knowing they wanted to be on the winning side. They gambled and lost hard

File: Bain_News_Service_-_The_Library_of_Congress_-_Kaiser_Wilhelm_(LOC)_(pd).jpg (2MB, 3034x4435px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 3034x4435px

Wilhelm II was a retard and fucked his country in a major way, but he was still /ourguy/

>From November 1894 onward, Wilhelm had been writing letters praising Nicholas as Europe's defender from the "yellow peril", assuring the Tsar that God Himself had "chosen" Russia to defend Europe from the alleged Asian threat.

>Wilhelm asserted that the "British people must be liberated from Antichrist Juda. We must drive Juda out of England just as he has been chased out of the Continent."

>Wilhelm advocated a "regular international all-worlds pogrom à la Russe" as "the best cure" and further believed that Jews were a "nuisance that humanity must get rid of some way or other. I believe the best thing would be gas!"

>>2735282
Are you stupid?
Britain is 1 Indian, 2 Whites, 1 Black
America, France and Germany are 1 Black, 3 Whites
Italy, Ottoman Empire are 4 "whites"
Austria-Hungary is 4 whites.

>>2743142
>hating Jews
Into the trash it goes

File: Judgement.jpg (659KB, 1496x2044px) Image search: [Google]

659KB, 1496x2044px

>>2744050
whoops, wrong pic

there we go

>>2743142
>a stupid man-child that fucks up his own country hated Jews

gee what a shocker