First Americans may have been Neanderthals 130,000 years ago

>>2725026
So Olmecs breeded with neanderthals?

>>2725026
So did the Native Americans we know today wipe them out? Is that a possibility?

>>2725032

The Olmecs aren't that old.

>>2725092
How do you know?

>>2725096
Because their culture only began in the iron age

If true, it doesn't really affect history, since they would have been long gone without a trace before we showed up.

>>2725026
So Koreans and Chinese did discover the New World

Absolutely fascinating. This along with the aztec and mayan records of feather serpents makes me wonder just how much of ancient americas history we still don't know about yet.

Whoa so you're telling me that the natives had 100,000 more additional years to tech up and they still could barely get to the bronze age?

really activates those synapses

>>2725026
wtf I hate neanderthals now

>>2725827
Doesn't help that the friars went berserk burning most of their books and records.

>>2725903
True but who knows maybe their are some hidden manuscripts like the dead sea scrolls. But meh a guy could dream

>>2725861
well we are talking about a pre historic time table. also considering that they were completely isolated from the rest of the world they did pretty well.

>>2725036
No most likely they were the natives pre historic ancestors. or some distant related cousin to modern day humans

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>>2726007
Soultreans on the west coast when most cited evidence is found on the east

>>2726007
This actually kills the solutrean hypothesis if anything.

>>2726012
Yup

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>be "native" american
>genocide the people who probably were the only reason your society reached any advancement
>10,000 years later
>get nearly wiped out because anglos gave you mild bacteria but your immune system is shit-tier, while spaniards rape almost all of you and create a hybrid mongrel race

Top kek

>>2726027
how can you genocide people who were never there to begin with anon

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>>2726008
>Soultreans on the west coast when most cited evidence is found on the east

Huh?

>>2726012
>This actually kills the solutrean hypothesis if anything.

How do you figure?

The Neanderthal migration happened long before the Solutrean migration.

>>2726117
Most evidence for the solutrean theroy is usually found in the north east of the USA. So trying to use these findings which were found in san diego to support that theory doesn't make any sense.

>>2726117
What the soultreans and neanderthals have nothing to do with each other

>>2726027

>WE
>WUZ
>KANGZ

>>2725036
Most likely they were already dead by the time Native Americans arrived.

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>>2726153
> Most evidence for the solutrean theroy is usually found in the north east of the USA.

(South east of the USA) So far, and you can’t deny mainstream academia doesn’t like research into the Solutrean Theory, which only makes it harder to do the needed archeology.

> So trying to use these findings which were found in san diego to support that theory doesn't make any sense.

Are you suggesting Neanderthals and Solutreans were somehow incapable of getting past the East Coast?

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>>2726158
> What the soultreans and neanderthals have nothing to do with each other

Exactly, that the Neanderthals may have migrated to N.America (as unlikely as that is, since there is no evidence they used boats) doesn’t change the fact that the Solutreans could have and did migrate later.

>>2726012
how? lol.

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>>2726512
>Most likely they were already dead by the time Native Americans arrived.

I’d say the evidence shows Solutreans were assimilated and/or wiped out (by the same later arrivals from Asia, who wiped out the Megafauna).

reminder that australasian-like DNA is found in south american populations, and that there is historical anecdotal evidence of peoples in remote parts of south america that were perceived as very different from other populations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuegians

>>2726714
if neanderthals came to north america, they probably walked.

>>2725861
>100,000 more additional years to tech up

Video games ruin /his/.

>>2725861
Put yourself in their position. Why would you tech up without a need? Everything in your life is balanced and you know how to get food.

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>>2726763
> schlepping across Asia, Alaska and Canada
> in the midst of a global ice age

Which is even more unlikely.

I’m not buying the Neanderthals in N.America theory, as the consensus nowadays is that Homo Sapien colonization of the Americas happened by boat along the coast and ice pack, which makes sense as it is actually doable (from both east and west).

>>2726007
This makes me very unhappy

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Til spice are Neanderthals

Short, brown, can't speak properly.

It took me this long to realize

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>>2727126
Neanderthals are thought to have had fair skin.

>>2725827
I don't know therefore aliens

>>2727126
Neandarthals had white skin buddy

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>>2727126
>>2727126
>Whites are shown to have Neanderthal DNA
>"Neanderthals are actually superior!"

>Amerindians may have considerable Neanderthal ancestry
>"Haha, Neanderthals!"

>>2727244
>>2727152
I'm sure they could evolve in a hundred thousand years.

>>2727255
Nigga this board will unironically argue that Ethiopians were actually basically white when discussing Egypt and then immediately start calling Turks subhuman blacks. There no logic anymore.

>>2726964
The soultrean theroy is also not very likely either. There is no way they had the sailing technology to brave the atlantic ocean. Also they had no motivation to go that way either. As modern men i think we forget that alot of the motivation for migration for ancient people was tied to survival rather than exploration.ie: chasing after hunt and game. In fact the only reason the asia to america theory works is that the distance is short enough for wild game to migrate over to the america's which in turn would of motivated the native americans ancestors to follow them thus settling in the americas. With the soultreans you have to ask the question what would have motivated them to migrate over a seemingly endless sea with no sign of land or resources ? Answer absoluley nothing

>>2726746
>arrivals from Asia
>wiped out the Megafauna

>the ending of an ice age had no impact on the north american Megafauna

Check out this article that isn't full based on clickbait and has responses by other archaeologists:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/04/mastodons-americas-peopling-migrations-archaeology-science/

The study is basing its analysis on rocks that can't necessarily clearly be identified as tools. And in general, it's very speculative. It's a cool idea, but it doesn't really seem like they've proven anything so far. I'll wait until other people follow up before making a decision.

>>2727126

Neanderthals showed signs of actual civilization earlier than humans going from current evidence.

>>2727262

> Turks subhuman blacks

Funny enough, Anatolia Turks aren't that different from Greeks. And it's yet to be shown the modern Greeks are way different than the ancient ones.

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>>2727545
> There is no way they had the sailing technology to brave the atlantic ocean.

Pic related, which is also how Asians got here.

> Also they had no motivation to go that way either.

This also applies Asians attempting to reach N.America.

We'll never know because the fucking useless natives have been and are destroying so many artefacts and sites because it interferes with their >much victimhood advertising.

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>>2728365
> the ending of an ice age had no impact on the north american Megafauna

Rapid climate change played a part but it was the Asian migration into N.America and subsequent explosion in population numbers, that wiped them out.

Because there is nothing about N.America’s climate today, that would prevent mastodons, saber-tooth tigers, etc. from surviving and thriving, (albeit, further north) if not for humans.

>>2729090

The Redskins wuz a gud bois. They Dindu Nuffin.

>>2725103
This doesnt make sense, you cannot start a civilitation in an advanced stage.

>>2729048
Ok first of all those vessels only had to traverse a small distance relatively close to a shoreline in comparsion to to a large open ocean and if they did try to cross the atlantic they wouldn't make it. And for the second response didn't you read my post they followed the migrating herds across the landbridge into the america's.

>>2729090
how could primitive asian hunters with subpar weapons clear the entirety of the americas of the mega fauna. It was mostly drastic climate change.

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>>2729079

>>2729107
Back to /pol/ with you anon

>>2729187
Yes you can, most Europeans, Africans and Southeast Asians had iron before civilization. There are no 'stages'. Though I assume that guy means the Olmecs emerged during the Eurasian bronze age, since the Americas had no Bronze Age.

>>2729079
you wuz natives and sheit

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>>2729220

>HE

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>>2729194
> those vessels only had to traverse a small distance relatively close to a shoreline

Which is exactly how both the Asian and Solutrean migrations happened; small family groups paddling/sailing right along the shorelines (where the food was) and camping each night on the shore and ice pack, which is why so few site remain above water today.

Nobody was sailing straight across the Pacific and Atlantic, though judging by cave paintings in Europe, the Solutreans had the sailing tech to go longer distances much quicker.

> they followed the migrating herds across the landbridge

Some may have, but the consensus nowadays is that the Asian migration was an “amphibious” migration, which means the Solutrean migration is even more likely.

>>2729420
>the Solutrean migration is even more likely.
Except for the complete lack of evidence.

>but two look at these two bifacial tools made thousands of years apart!
No. Outside of some very superficial similarities, Solutrean and Clovis tools don't have very much in common. There's a good reason the archaeological community doesn't take it seriously; Stanford's arguments are very stupid.

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>>2729204
>how could primitive asian hunters with subpar weapons

They were the same weapons the American Indians were using when Columbus arrived and which were plenty effective for killing animals.

>>2729420
the solutrean shit has been debunked, give it up.

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>>2729447
> > the Solutrean migration is even more likely.
> Except for the complete lack of evidence.

Nonsense, there’s all kinda evidence to support the theory but that line of research isn’t politically correct in today’s academia, where Whites are to blame for all the world’s ills and if you’re an academic, you’re not going to get the teaching positions and research grant monies by going against the party line.

>>2729495
>if you’re an academic, you’re not going to get the teaching positions and research grant monies by going against the party line.
Do you know how academia works? You make a name for yourself by coming up with new hypotheses or by debunking old ones. No one gives a shit about you if you don't do anything interesting. You can't make it in archaeology without contributing new and interesting research.

I know it's more fun to think that no one takes that bullshit hypothesis seriously because of politics, but that's not the case. The minute anyone could find real proof of it, they would get a giant boost to their career and be swimming in grant money.

>>2729457
>Killing deer=/= killing mammoths
They had the capacity to kill the animals, but they sure as hell didn't have the numbers to do so. If the natives were responsible for killing off the megafauna, why was it that so many large animals survived?

>>2729506
>find tools on the east coast that bear striking similarities to the tools used by seal hunters in Northern Europe dating to 20,000(ish)0 years ago
>These tools are also dated 20,000 years old
>Anthropologists dont try to refute the existence of the tools, just say why they shouldnt bea able to exist or say that its "not enough evidence"

>>2729521
>bear striking similarities to the tools used by seal hunters in Northern Europe dating to 20,000(ish)0 years ago
Except they don't. Again, the similarities are very superficial. I'm pretty sure I've gone over this with you in another thread.

>These tools are also dated 20,000 years old
No one, not even Stanford, argues that Clovis tools are that old.

>Anthropologists dont try to refute the existence of the tools,
Absolutely not true. Plenty of refutations of Stanford's materials have been published (Straus's 2000 article probably being the best known). Stop getting your information from psuedoarchaeology sources. Like someone else said, the Solutrean hypothesis has been thoroughly debunked. If you bothered doing the research (and probably weren't hypocritically motivated by politics), you would have found that out already. There's no evidence for it, and you say there is, blaming politics, and making inaccurate arguments isn't going the change that.

>>2729420
You know the soultrean migration path supposely went straight through the atlantic right, also their is no way they could have landed on ice packs in that manner. The only way these soultreans could have came to the americas would have been through the western passage of asian and north america

>>2729457
I like how they are killing this giant mammoth like 10 feet from their camp. And the people by the fire don't give a fuck.

>>2729510
this so much

>>2729521>finding ancient tools that look similar
So by your logic the pyramaids of meso america look similar to the egyptians ergo the egyptians must have made the pyramaids in meso america

>>2729541
Also seal hunter of northen europe. First i've ever heard of this

>>2729568
>>2729541
I'm not going to argue because I really don't know that much about the topic. However, I do read and listen to lectures from time to time and hear Solutreans brought up. The articles and speakers tend to assume that the hypothesis has at least some validity, so I don't think its so
>myth busted
as you want to think.

>>2729495
So debunking your imaginary theroy that has no evidence is political correctness. lol

>>2725026
I reckon you best not call my mammy and pappy no neanderdals!!

>>2729079
The """Native""" Americans aren't native at all. The Scandinavians beat them and now we know the Neanderthal beat them too. By Amerindian logic "he who finds it, keeps it" -Shitting Bull. Yet they continue to lay claim to two entire continents.

>>2729581
Ok so i have one question for you were exactly do you go to hear these lectures because the only places i hear the soultreans mentioned are in white supremist circles. If you want to get more accurate information i would recommend going to a more substanial sources like a university or history professor. Because most of the time these ethnobased group are pushing an agenda and will be dishonest with facts

>>2729603
Evidence plz.

This board is full of retards, the neanderthal DNA in Native Americans goes all the way back to the human that would split into the Caucasoid and Mongoloid races interbreeding with Neanderthals in the middle east.
>>2729603
Euros HAVE NEVER set foot in the Americas before the Natives, use your brain idiot the Mongoloids filled Siberia since the 20,000 B.C while Caucasoids were all the way in far west Eurasia MEANING NO CAUCASOID WOULD BE ABLE TO REACH THE AMERICAS.

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>>2725036
More likely Homo Erectus is bigfoot, and yes, natives have brought them to the brink.

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>>2729510
Persistence hunting an elephant sized animal provides a great payoff. It might take a large number of hunters to bring down a mammoth but think of the net gain in food.

>>2729665
I didn't say that they never took them down, I'm saying that taking down an elephant is a huge fucking deal and the tribe definitely wouldn't have done that often. Meanwhile the question still stands, how come bison and water buffalo and Aurochs and moose and rhinos and elephants survived while the others went extinct if the natives just went in killing gung ho.

>>2725827
>This along with the aztec and mayan records of feather serpents
Um what?

>>2729581
I was watching a human oddsey documentary on netflix and the scientists in it debunked it

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>>2729729
He talking about one of their many gods who can take on the form of a "feathered serpent."

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>>2729550
> the soultrean migration path supposely went straight through the atlantic right,

Not it did not; >>2726117 >>2726714

> also their is no way they could have landed on ice packs in that manner.

You mean like Eskimos did and continue to do all the time?...

>>2729495

>implying academics haven't debunked SJW garbage

>going full We Wuz

Another We Wuzzer.

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>>2729573
>Also seal hunter of northen europe. First i've ever heard of this

Britain was tundra and arctic coastline, what do you think they ate?

>>2729781
But the soultreans weren't in britian though they were deep in southern france

>>2729754
The manner im refering to is for multiple days at a time which would have been nessecary for a transoceanic voyage. Comparing that with the eskimos is preposterous because the they only remained on icebergs for a couple of hours at best

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>>2729506
> Do you know how academia works?

Do you? Today’s universities are all about maintaining the politically correct narrative and the Solutrean Hypothesis is directly opposed to that.

I remember read an article about some anthropologist doing “research” on Easter Island to support her hypothesis that the natives had lived idilic lives in harmony with nature, until evil Europeans and Christian priests came and fucked it all up.

And despite all kinda opposition pointing out that she was simply full of shit, she continued to get funding because it fit the narrative.

It’s the same reason there’s so much main stream academic opposition to the Multi-Regional Hypothesis of human evolution; the concept of “we’re ALL Africans!” must be maintained regardless of the data.

>>2729818
Yeah im pretty sure you don't know how academia works

>>2729796
>eskimos is preposterous because the they only remained on icebergs for a couple of hours at best

The fuck? Eskimo spent the entire winter season out on the pack ice, as thats where the food is.

>>2729823
> we already know everything that is possible to know!

t. academic

>>2729818
iirc both OoA and MRH have been trying to meet in the middle for thirty years. We wouldn't all be africans regardless, because the first humans weren't "africans" as we know today and whatever ethnic group they were are long gone.

>>2729789

Southern France was like northern Norway.

Do you think they were growing apples and shit?

>>2729839

Trump loves the undereducated.

>>2729843
>both OoA and MRH have been trying to meet in the middle for thirty years
Hardly. The original MRH is dead. There are some minor changes in OoA, but it's the paradigm.

>>2729887
>minor changes
I should say big changes regarding Denisovan and Neanderthal DNA, but the core theory is still the same.

To be honest, this is a pretty good example that the academics are willing to change status quo if there is enough evidence for this.

>>2729843

>We wouldn't all be africans regardless, because the first humans weren't "africans" as we know today and whatever ethnic group they were are long gone.

Stop using African for Niggers. Maghrebis (who are overall significantly lighter than both Egyptians and populations south of the Sahara) have been in the continent since at least 10,000 B.C.

>>2727258
Oh, you're sure? Well, that's good enough for me.

>>2729204
Those are the same tools everyone everywhere else used to wipe them out.

Herd animals be stupid in a group - there's mastodon graveyards at the base of cliffs with tool markings all over their bones, suggesting that humans just drove them off the cliffs.

Wipe them out, and there's not a lot for the sabres to eat - which probably weren't very numerous to begin with. Plus, every time one of those toothy beast killed a wandering human, the whole tribe probably tracked it back to its cave and butchered it along with its whole family.

...and then the buffalo started breeding out of control.

>>2727545
>Go fishing.
>Storm.
>Lost at sea.
>..
>Chief angry, banishes family.
>Forced out to sea.
>..
>Nasty tribe invades, starts to kill everyone.
>Forced out to sea.
>..
>Rinse and repeat...
Suddenly... Motivation! (Mayas well ask how those damned polynesians ended up everywhere with "no motivation".)

Not to mention how all these matching megafauna got there with no boats at all, despite having evolved long after the major land connections were gone.

Plus the land and ice bridges weren't all that inhospitable, given all the fire pits full of bones we've found along their edges.

Here we see pol discovering they wuz kangs n shet.

>>2725026
>M.A.N.A.
>Make America Neanderthal Again!

>>2729845
Thanks for the info lad.

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>>2730097
Land bridge not hospitable ok no just no, you do realize this landbridge was massive and not completely covered in ice right

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>>2730272
Yes they were also ancient japanese and chinese as well

>>2729747
>>2729729
>>2725827
>feather serpents
Holy shit they were there when the dinosaurs still roamed the Americas

>>2731760
I remember in south america they found a polynesian body

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Real talk, what happens if they find a skull/body of these supposed "Amreican Neanderthals?" Would the NAs try to forcefully confiscate them like that whole Kennewick Man thing?

>>2731756
There's tons of food filled fire pits on both ends, and animals, including mammoths, crossed it, so it can't have been that bad.

But I shouldn't have brought up the land bridge, given that the guy I was replying to was mostly talking about the ice pack from the opposite coast.

>>2726857
>Why would you tech up without a need? Everything in your life is balanced and you know how to get food.
Do you actually believe this shit?

>>2732126
>forcefully confiscate
That's really not what happened with Kennewick Man. The US has a law called the Native American Graves Repatriation and Protection Act, which exists, in part, to keep Native graves and remains from being destroyed. When Kennewick Man was discovered, the Army Corps of Engineers contacted an archaeologist who apparently didn't give a shit about NAGPRA who took the remains and started doing destructive tests on them without consulting the local Native groups. This was all illegal, and very unethical. When the Natives found out about this, they were pissed because no one asked them, and demanded that the archaeologist stop because he was breaking the law. The ACE got worried about legal reprimands and started arguing that the remains were old enough that the local tribes didn't have a legal right to claim them under NAGPRA, so a big legal battle happened, which the tribes lost at the time (because the courts wanted the remains available for scientific interests). The remains were only repatriated recently because the "he's too old to be related directly to you" defense was finally thrown out due to genetic testing.

The tribes weren't trying to "forcefully confiscate" Kennewick Man, they were just trying to stop illegal testing that had been carried out without their consent. They weren't trying to cover anything up or be assholes, they were just trying to stop unethical behavior that they saw as disrespectful. I've talked to a few of the tribal archaeologists in the area, and they've all said that if Chatters or the ACE had bothered to ask them first and be respectful about the testing, they would have agreed to it. Most tribal groups are pretty okay with archaeology if the researchers are willing to not act like assholes.

>>2729692
Climatic change. They found thousands upon thousands of dead, uneaten mammoths in Siberia.

>>2729692
All of those breed faster.

It isn't hard to drive a herd of a cliff - size isn't much of a factor. Not nearly as impressive a feat as it sounds.

(Well, except the rhino, but they are harder to herd than most.)

It's true, *most* of them probably died off to climate change, but the local homos were probably the deciding factor in extinction in most cases where they weren't geographically isolated.

>>2733263
There's also mammoth grave yards with bones full of tool marks half a mile deep at the bottom of various cliffs throughout the world.

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>>2733263
>They found thousands upon thousands of dead, uneaten mammoths in Siberia.

That's because the bodies have been frozen for a bazillion years.

There have also been thousands of white tail deer who died in my suburban backyard over the eons but there are no remains.

>>2726070
Ask the Nazis

>>2733223
>When Kennewick Man was discovered, the Army Corps of Engineers contacted an archaeologist who apparently didn't give a shit about NAGPRA who took the remains and started doing destructive tests on them without consulting the local Native groups. This was all illegal, and very unethical.

"In February 2004, the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit ruled that a cultural link between any of the Native American tribes and Kennewick Man could not be proved because of the age of the remains. Its ruling allowed scientific study of the remains to continue while the USACE retained custody of the remains."

Kennewick man is 9,000 fucking years old, there is absolutely no "connection" between him and current day American indians and to suggest there is and that this religious mumbo-jumbo is enough to shut down scientific research, is nothing but ignorance and savagery.

If we're to believe that no archeology at all can be done on Kennewick man, then no archeology can be done on ANY human remains anywhere on the entire planet, as everybody is "related" to somebody.

>>2734608
You realize that the estimate arrival of the native americans dates to as far as we know 10-15,000 years so it quiet plausible to think that kennewick man was and is related to the native americans. what isn't plausible is to suggest that he is related to a race of people across the world who at the time he lived didn't have the motivation or technology to reach the america's

>>2734608
>there is absolutely no "connection" between him and current day American indians

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v523/n7561/full/nature14625.html

His DNA is very, very close to that of individuals of the modern Colville Nation. That's a pretty concrete connection; it was certainly good enough for the ACE to finally agree and let him be reburied. And, like I said, the problem wasn't that research was being done on him, it was how the research was being done. Again, if they would have been in dialogue with the tribes at the time, no one probably would have cared (the DNA testing was done with their consultation and permission, for example). I know it's easy to get reactionary and act like Natives want to hold up research (especially if you don't know the field of archaeology very well, but that's really not the case. In general, archaeological research is actually something most tribes have an interest in and encourage, as long as they have a say in what goes on. Many tribal government have archaeological department, for example. They want to know about the past, too. But ethics are important, and so is not being an asshole to people who have a stake (and legal right to be involved) in research. All communities appreciate being involved in research like that.

>>2729883
President Trump you mean.

>>2734659
Exactly this ridiculous theory that the natives are trying to hide the past for their own benefit is pure bullshit. They want to know their history just as much as we do

>>2729627
>Mongoloids filled Siberia
>Caucasoids were all the way in far west Eurasia
>20,000 B.C

HAHAHAHAHAHA TERMS LIKE MONGOLOID AND CAUCASOID BARELY EVEN APPLY AT THIS POINT
BASAL R PROBABLY CAME OUT OF THE CAUCASUS BUT THE ONLY SAMPLE WE HAVE IS FROM MALTA BURET

>>2734659
>The morphological analysis was important to judicial decisions that Kennewick Man was not Native American and that therefore NAGPRA did not apply. Instead of repatriation, additional studies of the remains were permitted2. Subsequent craniometric analysis affirmed Kennewick Man to be more closely related to circumpacific groups such as the Ainu and Polynesians than he is to modern Native Americans2.
>In order to resolve Kennewick Man’s ancestry and affiliations, we have sequenced his genome to ~1× coverage and compared it to worldwide genomic data including for the Ainu and Polynesians. We find that Kennewick Man is closer to modern Native Americans than to any other population worldwide.

whew lad, modern Native Americans sure is a specific group.

>Among the Native American groups for whom genome-wide data are available for comparison, several seem to be descended from a population closely related to that of Kennewick Man, including the Confederated Tribes of the Colville Reservation (Colville), one of the five tribes claiming Kennewick Man.

So several groups SEEM to be descended from a population merely related to that of Kennewick Man.

>We revisit the cranial analyses and find that, as opposed to genome-wide comparisons, it is not possible on that basis to affiliate Kennewick Man to specific contemporary groups. We therefore conclude based on genetic comparisons that Kennewick Man shows continuity with Native North Americans over at least the last eight millennia.

oh wow, Kennewick Man suddenly belongs to all native North Americans for 8000 years how pleasant.

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solutrean hypothesis did nothing wrong

>m-muh debunked
pic related

>>2727152
White skin developed in Northern Europe, where ultraviolet radiation was very scarce. In Ice age those regions were under ice.
I wonder why on earth scientists would think that Neanderthals would have fair skin if that was only harmful for them in mediterranean latitude?

>>2734869
>White skin developed in Northern Europe
no

How the fuck does some actual new piece of interesting historical information somehow turn into racial shit flinging?

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>>2734869
>White skin developed in Northern Europe, where ultraviolet radiation was very scarce.

They why aren't northern Mongols/Chinese/Koreans blonde haired Whites with slanty eyes?

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>>2734659
> His DNA is very, very close to that of individuals of the modern Colville Nation.

No he’s not, Kennewick Man is as close to the Colville Indians as he is to any other Indian in N.America.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vnfv/ncurrent/full/nature14625.html

“Model-based clustering using ADMIXTURE24 shows that Kennewick Man has ancestry proportions most similar to those of other Northern Native Americans, especially the Colville, Ojibwa, and Algonquin.”

It’s disingenuous to compare Kennewick Man to the narrowly defined Colville Indian tribe, when he’s also the same as the Ojibwa and Algonquins, who cover a vast area of N.America.

> But ethics are important

But there is nothing “ethical” about religious mumbo-jumbo shutting down scientific research.

It’s the equivalent of me shutting down an archeological dig on a Civil war battlefield, because I’m of European decent and the remains on the battlefield are also from other Europeans.

>>2737150
>It’s disingenuous to compare Kennewick Man to the narrowly defined Colville Indian tribe, when he’s also the same as the Ojibwa and Algonquins, who cover a vast area of N.America.
It's even more disingenuous to claim that Kennewick Man has no connection to modern groups, which was your original position. The DNA results were good enough for the ACE to admit that they were wrong; you are, too.

>But there is nothing “ethical” about religious mumbo-jumbo shutting down scientific research.
Again, that's not what happened. Stop trying to make this some weird cultural/political issue. The lawsuit happened because Chatters had been carrying out his work illegally. He deliberately disregarded NAGPRA statutes and worked under the radar for as long as possible because he knew he wasn't supposed to be doing what he did. That unethical. Your analogy also isn't accurate. Something closer would be people getting mad that someone decided to dig up a Civil War cemetery without getting the proper permits and other clearances that are usually required for projects like that. And if that did happen, I bet it certainly would piss a lot of people off. As soon as legal authorities found out such work was going on, they certainly would shut it down.

>>2736928

Is this supposed to show something? Northeast Asians are significatly light than Negro populations.

>>2734669

He's the Red State candidate.

>>2733743

Hey there pol. Still sore about your rejection by the historical and scientific communities relevant here?

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>>2737307
>
> > It’s disingenuous to compare Kennewick Man to the narrowly defined Colville Indian tribe
> It's even more disingenuous to claim that Kennewick Man has no connection to modern groups, which was your original position.

No, my position is and was that research should have continued on Kennewick Man and that the Indians can go piss up a rope, because the 9,000 year old remains are not their “family members” and the vague distant genetic connection (that virtually all American Indians share) is not reason to shut down the research.

> > But there is nothing “ethical” about religious mumbo-jumbo shutting down scientific research.
> Again, that's not what happened. Stop trying to make this some weird cultural/political issue.

Except that’s exactly what happened and it was the _Indians_ who made it a political / religious /cultural issue and shut down the research.

> The lawsuit happened because Chatters had been carrying out his work illegally.

Again; “Its ruling [United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit] allowed scientific study of the remains to continue while the USACE retained custody of the remains."

>>2736232
Because if a topic has anything even remotely related to race, /pol/ is guaranteed to show up to fuck it up.

It's the same way with Young Earth Creationists and any mesopotamia thread.

>>2737855
This is true

>>2737855

> Young Earth Creationists and any mesopotamia thread

pol supports Young Earth Creationism too?

>>2737983
Do they? I'm sure there's some young earth creationists in /pol/, but they don't seem to be monolithically so like they are with white nationalism.

>>2729495
WE WUZ HEER FIRST!!!

What the FUCK is a wewuzer

>>2738411
We wuz the true natives and sheit

>>2738474
Someone who claims to be part of a culture that they aren't

>>2738546
But we actually wuz.

>>2738596
Kek

>>2730086
So you're saying the human just keep fucking there shit up? Ayyy lmao.

why are europeans wewuzzing the neanderthals

>>2738596
Kangzzzzz

>>2725026
Theres no such thing as a modern human. Homo sapien is more politicized today. Keep in mind selective breeding. Modern human is technically cro-magnon. A european cave man. Then theres homo sapien sapien which is an eye socket mutation means their eyes are closer.

>>2730324
Somescientists agree that neanderthalswere the smartest modernhumansto exist. They have the largest braincapacity.

>>2738920
Neanderthal is technically modern human as nameimplies. Ne(new)ander(man)

>>2738927
He is said to be the most well built of them for earth. His skull has two extra protection . Protecting brain stem and brain. Meaning they were the greatest of tree climbers. If the fell they did not need to worry as much as other human groups.

>>2738946
The criticism of modern anthropology is that academics is built solely around the african skull. Due to a situation for a cause. The rest is disinformation. Samething with native american genocide...smallpox. The weakest immune system in the world is the asiatic. They dont sweat out their diseases.

>>2738920
I think I have read somewhere that it's not only the size of the brain that makes a being smart there's another factor. I don't remember what right now.

>>2739107
According to American history. The great powers abused native americans by promising them their freedoms as a people. So theyd put one nation against the next in front line of battle.

>>2739151
So their soldiers would rape every white colony. And let their women be raped. So they could prolong their culture/race. Many people who claim native american ancestry are descendant of asiatics and indians that were bought here to propagate spice industries.

>>2739201
The places with the undisturbed native american genes were the places with most deforestation. Warm locations. They were a exotic wood and mining economy. And their peoples eat with less spices. Thats why people in some anthro theories treat them as missing link.

>>2739253
By 1492 Spain nor Portugal were allowed legally trade with Asia as they once did via Islam. They were the most prized possession of the Muslim world as they were said to be home to oneof the few provable mohamedan lineages. You know...you dont know who is the father but youll always know the mother. 1492 is when Americas was rewritten into the Catholic tabula rasa; new law.

>>2729744
>netflix
The same quality people that brought us Bill Nye's science show? Then it must be legit!

Bazinga!

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>>2738920
> Somescientists agree that neanderthalswere the smartest modernhumansto exist.

I remember reading an article years back about studies of Neanderthal garbage pits and while they found salmon bones in the pits showing Neanderthals ate them when they could get them, they didn’t find many and concluded that Neanderthals couldn’t grasp the concept that the salmon would be running in the same river every year at round about the same time and would provided an easy to catch major food source.

The implication was that Neanderthals were short term thinkers and couldn’t plan for the long run, eating the salmon if they happened to come across them at the right time but never figuring out that if they came back to the same spot next year, they could easily catch literally tons of salmon.

>>2729204
are you implying amerindians were the only retarded bunch who failed at wiping out the megafauna? Everyone else did.

>>2741303
>pbs
Anon, just because you're buttblasted that your shitty "muh scientism" thread got pruned doesn't mean you can go try to ruin other threads.

>>2737983
No. But flat earthers shit up a lot of geography discussions. It started off as one big ironic joke and got out of control.

>>2739115
Folds in the brain, maybe?

Neurons vary by race so that can't be it.

>>2741588
What the fuck is scientism? Some scientology offshoot?

>>2741669
The current buzzword for anti-science people to try to discredit science. Usually involves beating up strawmen and whining about pop-science figures like Bill Nye and Black Science Man.

>>2741689

It's less discrediting science and more about the lack of a scientific attitude in all the faggots who cheer over Bill Nye.

People invoke scientists while having the mindsets of absolute ideological cretins.

There's no glamour in searching for a useful pattern amongst a bajillion data points and the long work it takes to get a grain of knowledge from the world.

There is a glamour in allying yourself with people who have high-status, regardless of the content of their achievements. False or not.

>>2737368

Is Shariahblue trolling /his/ now?

>>2737556

>muh /pol/ boogyman

>>2742358
When you post this you pretty much give away that you're from /pol/
Would someone from /v/ or /lit/ post this?

>>2742364
Yes. /v/ made fun of SJW stuff in games before /pol/ was a thing or SJW was a term, but now you point out a clear bullshit political agenda overtaking gameplay and the anti/pol/ brigade calls you /pol/ and derails the whole thing.