>Venetian victory HE CAN'T KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH IT

I dont understand how the war worked.

>>2722033
crafty olive merchant

The history of Venice is so fucking interesting, it's impressive how long they managed to remain independent and even powerful.

>>2722036
French are the truly perfidious nation, they joined Venice to undermine the Roman Empire because of muh ancient oppression
>>2722038
>olive
>not tarfur dye

The doge knows

>>2722040
This. The Republic of Venice is one of my favourite historical countries simply because of how crafty and cunning the Doges and the rest of venetian government were.
>>2722046
>HRE
>Roman Empire

You don't want to summon Voltaire, do you?

>>2722054
>how crafty the doges were
Read hire mercs and have the monopoly on many trades so people want to keep the status quo, also on the Jews and their lies
It's large enough to be an empire and it's leader was king of the Romans

>>2722060
Rome has no king, Rome needs no king

>>2722036
>The Pope is feeling nervous about Venice's growing strength
>declares holy alliance against Venice consisting of himself, the King of France, the King of Spain, and the King of Germany (Holy Roman Emperor)
>the newly formed League of Cambrai successfully wages war on Venice for a couple years
>Pope now concerned about growing French influence in Italy and also wants clay of French ally
>suddenly betrays the league and sides with Venice against France
>France promptly starts kicking around the Papal States and Venice
>Papal States try to Jew France out of victory by declaring another holy alliance, this time against France, which the HRE, Spain, and England join
>France begins to lose
>alliance starts disagreeing about partition of land and influence after the victory, particularly the Papal States and Venice
>Venice promptly tops all of them by reaching peak Jew and siding with France against the holy alliance when the alliance was formed in the first place to help them in a war they were losing to France
>France and Venice together defeat the alliance and agree to divvy up north Italy
>original pope dies, successor is unconcerned by the war
>separate peaces are made

>>2722060
But seriously, either say the Holy Roman Empire or Germany, even in contemporary times they didn't call it "The Roman Empire", it was either the HRE or just "The Empire"

>>2722060
>the Jews and their lies
What do jews have to do wih Venice?
>It's large enough to be an empire and it's leader was king of the Romans
It consisted of dozens of small feudal lands that were barely connected with each other and the "Empreror" was elected and he didn't have a lot of power.

>>2722062
t. BRVTVS

>>2722054
>tfw your ancestor is responsible for the whole Holy Roman discussion
I'm sorry guys,

>>2722101
this is a new type of wewuzism

File: mfw venice.jpg (125KB, 731x879px) Image search: [Google]

125KB, 731x879px

>>2722033

>>2722063
That's legitimately fucking hilarious

rec me a good book about history of venice please

>>2722394
John Norwich's history of Venice is quite good.
Roger Crowley's City of Fortune is great too but it only covers the events that happened between 1000 and 1500.

>>2722410
thank you for your recs
bump for best war thread btw

>>2722063
>alliance starts disagreeing about partition of land and influence after the victory, particularly the Papal States and Venice
>Venice promptly tops all of them by reaching peak Jew and siding with France against the holy alliance when the alliance was formed in the first place to help them in a war they were losing to France
You should really explain that the disagreements were about the HRE wanting to annex mainland Venice for no good reason whatsoever. It's hardly a jew move for Venice to ally with France after being backstabbed.

>>2722063
>Venice promptly tops all of them by reaching peak Jew and siding with France against the holy alliance when the alliance was formed in the first place to help them in a war they were losing to France
Bears mention that Venice and France had no real beef. They were only at war due to the Pope, who first betrayed France and switched to Venice, and then betrayed Venice to the emperor. It's not really weird for two enemies of the pope to come together.

>>2722156
thats a really bad greenpost

>>2722063
>>2722649
>>2722653

So basically, the biggest Jew here was the Pope?

>>2722799
In a way, yes. He was opportunistic and disloyal.
If you're looking for the most morally objectionable player however, the HREmperor tops the Pope handily, due to being just as treacherous and disloyal, but totally unjustifiably so (the pope was perfectly right to fear for a french northern Italy, whereas the HRE had no justification for just turning on an ally and trying to gobble him up).

>>2722156
>try to landgrab by making clusterfuck alliance
>complain about clusterfuck alliance

good ol Frogs

>>2722063
>>Venice promptly tops all of them by reaching peak Jew and siding with France against the holy alliance when the alliance was formed in the first place to help them in a war they were losing to France

Magnificent.

>>2723599
>Magnificent
Also false. The league was formed to help the pope against France, and the pope had basically autorized the cannibalization of Venice by the emperor.
Venice's options were switch sides or be annexed by the treacherous HRE. Such a hard choice to make.

File: 1493183701592.jpg (341KB, 1500x1101px) Image search: [Google]

341KB, 1500x1101px

>>2722063
you can almost hear the fucking benny hill theme

File: 1482445522101.jpg (6KB, 187x250px) Image search: [Google]

6KB, 187x250px

>>2722063
Jesus fucking Christ and his backstabbing appointed

>>2722033
>Imperial bullies try to conquer your place for shits and giggles
>try to protect it
>years later said imperial bullies say you are scum for trying to protect your shit from them

cry forever

>>2723624
>repeat steps 1-3 for 900 years

>>2722063
The Papal States sound like the real Jew here, not Venice.

>betray Venice by attacking them alongside France
>betray France by attacking them alongside Venice
>betray both Venice and France by attacking them both alongside the HRE
>finally lose

>>2722156
not even funny :(

>>2722156
disappointing

What I'm reading here is that Venice literally did nothing wrong.

>>2724366
They tried to be a politically powerful country in Italy. This is how you make the Papal States sperg out

File: IMG_2370.jpg (157KB, 903x713px) Image search: [Google]

157KB, 903x713px

>>2722063
None of this makes sense and that's perfectly fine

>>2724366
There's a reason why Venice had a rather sterling diplomatic reputation right until the 19th century you know. Popular perception of the Serenissima is quite remarkably skewed due to napoleonic historiography needing to blackwash it after the unjustified aggression and annexation on Napoleon's part.
Just think that the most well known history of Venice for the whole 19th century and part of the 20th was a piece of sheer propaganda written by Boney propaganda chief and it's about as accurate and unbiased as Procopius' secret history.

>>2724393
It also didn't help that historically sympathetic England, which would have othetwise provided the counterweight to french historiogrpahy, spent most of its intellectual weight on the romanticists' Elegant Decay.

>>2724366
go away Luigi.

>>2724436
>Luigi
Alvise would be the appropriate Venetian version.

>>2722046
>the
>Roman
>Empire
was a multicultural shithole, the French merely resisted to "H" "R" "E" liberal imperialism

>>2724393

Also, since the whole "Unification of Italy" Venice doing well on it's own while the rest of the Italian city states sperg out over bullshit doesn't suit the narrative of a united Italy. And when Sicily has been trying to gain independence looking at how well Venice did when it was independent hurts that Nationalistic narrative too.

Venice was one of the only European powers which by itself could actually fight the Ottomans during the Early Modern period, as well as being the longest lasting Republic in human history, but no one gives a fuck.

Venice also started the Fourth Crusade and damned the Byzantine Empire to ruin

>>2722063
>So I told Venice to backstab everyone, and he actually did it the absolute madman

File: chrome_2017-01-26_18-51-04.png (271KB, 1874x832px) Image search: [Google]

271KB, 1874x832px

>>2722033
IDK where you are story anon, but i will carry your torch.

File: chrome_2017-01-26_18-52-43.png (339KB, 1920x1040px) Image search: [Google]

339KB, 1920x1040px

>>2725574

File: chrome_2017-01-26_18-52-51.png (245KB, 1877x744px) Image search: [Google]

245KB, 1877x744px

>>2725574
sorry i rushed into that reply

File: chrome_2017-01-26_18-55-57.png (231KB, 1860x846px) Image search: [Google]

231KB, 1860x846px

>>2725588

File: chrome_2017-01-26_18-58-20.png (258KB, 1877x917px) Image search: [Google]

258KB, 1877x917px

>>2725591
>>2725588
>double dubs repeated in /his/ recap
kek

File: chrome_2017-01-26_19-01-39.png (159KB, 1691x461px) Image search: [Google]

159KB, 1691x461px

>>2725599
>>2725599
>double dubs in double dubs reply showing double dubs cap

>>2725061

Venice was one of the only European powers which by itself could actually fight the Ottomans during the Early Modern period
Let's not kid ourselves now.
>as well as being the longest lasting Republic in human history
San Marino.

>>2722063
ok but where does Scotland factor in?

File: 1469049874322.jpg (10KB, 180x213px) Image search: [Google]

10KB, 180x213px

>>2722060
>HRE
>King of Romans

>>2726489
And Venice was the main reason why Constantinople was sacked and the Turks allowed to advance on Europe. Biggest European cunts in history of civilization

>>2726536
Didn't the Scots and France have an agreement that when England went to war with one of them the other would always join? Either way they just did it to try and fuck over the English.

>>2726489
You know the 301 claim is retarded, that's still roman period.
The earliest known acknowledgement of San Marino as an independent polity happened in 1291, meaning it's only 726 years old compared to the Serenissima 1100 years.

>>2726536
allied with France

>>2726546
What outrageous bullshit. Might as well say that it's the ERE's fault that islam spread because its conflict with the sassanids allowed for the arab expansion.

>>2726724
There's quite a bit of a difference between what you say and to go for a Crusade against the Muslims and end up sacking the greatest Christian city in existence.

>>2726536
They saw England was engaged in a war, and joined the opposite side.

>>2726748
>go for a Crusade against the Muslims and end up sacking the greatest Christian city in existence
What has this to do with anything? When did Venice sack Rome?
And jokes asides, get your history straight. Venice was just the ferryman in the 4th crusade, a ferryman paid in mercs. If you want to judge, judge Boniface of Montferrat and Louis of Blois.

>>2726760
The Venetians were behind the sacking of Zara and Constantinople, mate. Just because it wasn't their army that was doing the sacking doesn't mean they weren't pulling the strings from behind the scenes. Wtf are you talking about?

>>2726788
>Wtf are you talking about?
>go for a Crusade against the Muslims
This is what I'm talking about. Venice wasn't going a-crusading, they were renting a fleet and being paid in mercs for their own wars. t's fucking stupid to imply they broke crusader vows and ethics or whatbnot.

>>2726536
Same deal as the English basically. "Our enemy is fighting someone else and that leaves them weak, so we may as well attack now."

>>2726788
>implying the fourth crusade was anything but angeloi scheming backfiring hard onto the whole nation

Maybe you shouldn't be playing the throne game when there's a giant crusader army at your gates expecting payment for the throne gaming you already pulled.

Nah, that'd be too easy.

>>2728101
If you think about it, the actual sack is literally justified: the city leadership murdered the leader (or the employer at any rate) of the besieging army within the walls during a truce.
I mean they literally broke truce while the enemy army still held the walls, how fucking idiotic can you be? What else were they expecting to happen?

>>2725197
No they fucking didn't. The crusaders had only commisioned their fleet, which they couldn't pay for, from Venice. When you read about it, it turns out that Venice did nothing wrong and everyone around them fucked up.

>>2722063
>Venice promptly tops all of them by reaching peak Jew and siding with France against the holy alliance when the alliance was formed in the first place to help them in a war they were losing to France

Not really. The papal treachery of the original League (of Cambrai) and their alliance with Venice was to get rid of the French, but the Holy League itself which grew out of that alliance was done to protect the Papal States.

And while reversing french successes against Venice, much of that clay would have gone to other powers; while at the same time the League members would keep their already conquered venedian clay as well-

It was completely natural for Venice to quit the Holy League and switch over to the French, when they promised to turn the war back to square One and have a white peace as ultimate war goal.

>>2725061
This is quite the problem, actually. Since the Savoia times Italian historiography has been trying to minimize everything that is not some specific parts that can be combined to create a fake idea of uninterrupted unified Italian identity since way before the romans up until today. And that does not hurts only Venetian history, see Sardinia as another example.

>>2726489
>San Marino.

My bad. I forgot about San Marino.

>>2722063
>popes declaring holy leauges willy nilly
>against other christians
You know with shit like this going on its no wonder Luthers reformation happened like a year later.

>>2730083
Also Lucca and Genoa lasted until the French invasion

>>2730749
Genoa didn't rule itself continously.They were a vassal of France until the Spanish troops liberated the republic and then became a subject to the king of Spain.Venice self rulership is continous

>>2722033
based Napoleon put an end to Sea Jew kikery

>>2730924
>Venice lasted for 1100 years
>Napoleon's meme empire collapsed after 10 years.

>>2730932
The venedian faces when they heard the news from the Congress of Vienna, that their whole realm would simply pass to Austria and that they are now going to be ruled by the Habsburg, were probably pretty priceless