Historicity of Jesus

>>2718686
I think it's more likely than not that he existed, but it's hardly certain either way.

As for links, I've got a good one (PDF of a uni textbook on biblical history) on my main computer, but I'm not there right now. If the thread's still up in a couple of hours I can link you to it.

>>2718711
That'd be appreciated.

Why does OP think supposed "non-biased" sources exist?

A better question would be the nature of mythologizing vs historicizing spiritual figures in general. Christians tend towards the latter over the former. Certain people tend towards the later. Atheist tend to believe in neither. This theological question isn't exclusive to Christianity.

There is little doubt he existed but he wasn't Gd or Gd's son

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>>2718686
There is ZERO, I mean ZERO proof WHATSOEVER he existed. no PRIMARY sources, no SECONDARY sources nothing.

however, he most likely did exist, even the Jews at the time noted he was real, just that he was a subversive fraud

>>2718742
Taking the description of Jesus literal you would believe Jesus had swords coming out of his mouth.

No historian working today would say he didn't exist. It would be like saying Boudicca or Pepin the Short didn't exist

>>2718686
Some guy who would later become the Jesus figure existed, and he did spread the martyrdom cult that would later become Christianity.

I am sure that the grain of truth is there, it just doesn't necessarily justify the myth around it.

So "did Jesus exist" is not a well defined question, first you have to answer how much of Jesus do you want.
He probably wasn't even called that, more like something like Yeshua or Yehoshua. And almost certainly if he existed he wasn't the calm bearded white man patriarchal figure, but rather a stick skinny gypsy looking fella.

>>2718742

>no sources
>the Jews at the time noted he was real

>>2718742

>No secondary sources

I refuse to believe you are this retarded

>>2718686
Probably existed but was just some mad lad

>>2718686
With absolute certainty? No. The phenomenon of messiahs and prophets with various followings popping in and out of history in Roman Judea is pretty widespread though. Several "Jesuses" have certainly existed.

>>2718761
There are no sources. Its all speculation, its just that some of the speculation is more reasonable than other.

Look at the following list of speculations and tell me if any of them are disagreeable to you:
>There was a "Galileans" guy whos name we today read Jesus
>He was a Judean worshiper
>Like a certain german long after him, he didn't like how the officials handle the faith
>He joined some offshoot of Judaism that was like a protestant cult
>John the Baptist was a member of that cult and initiated him with a water rite
>John the Baptist was arrested and Jesus took his position
>Jesus then took disciples and continued with the activism
>His activities were confined to Galilee and Judea
>Jesus had a confrontation with the temple officials
>The temple officials trialed him for heresy and the romans executed their verdict
>The punishment was crucifixion near Jerusalem
>After his death his disciples continued
>Some of his disciples were persecuted
>Some reached Ethiopia and India

Those seem plausible and fit well into established history, but they aren't "proven", they are just fiddled with to make them fit.
As such, they are educated speculations, that seem like they could be true, and would explain some things, but we have no sources to prove them.

Anyway, comment on which you agree, on which you don't, which you think should be added, etc.

>>2718787
I thought the trial was long established to be untrue, a creation to shift the blame to the Jews from the Romans.

>>2718803
Well seeing how our only source is the Bible, and the Bible keeps repeating that it happened...
Anyways, he doesn't violate any roman laws in the stories, while he does erode the prestige and power of the official priests at the temple. It fits.
And all that these speculations have is that they fit, they make sense. Thats the most proof we have.

>>2718812
Not that guy, but the trial before the Sanhedrin at least (not the one before Pilate) doesn't make a good deal of sense, since it violates about half a dozen rules of how those things were supposed to work, has no clear way of transmitting "what happened" to the Gospel authors, there is no particular reason to think that the Sanhedrin wouldn't have executed him themselves if they found him guilty of a capital crime, and of course that the Pharisees wouldn't object to such blatant Sadducee power-grabbing is dodgy as well. The first trial has a lot of problems with it.

>>2718824
Could be. We can change the point to "Jesus is trialed and sentenced to death", without mentioning who judged him.
Revising the list, is there anything else you think isn't reasonable?

Most likely a real philosopher unless the entire new testement is a ruse by one guy making up a story

>>2718833
It is and his name is Paul of Tarsus.

>>2718686
>ctrl+f "josephus tacitus"
>0 results
/his/...

>>2718836
>Citation needed

>>2719050
>one page
>written 150 years after the birth of Christ
>during a period when he was already part of mythology

About as accurate as the 50 eastern European khans claiming to be descendant from Attila.

>>2718686
>when trying to find some online sources or discussion on the matter

That's /his/ for you... Researching the most written about figure in history via online discussions. At least it's a step up from YouTube videos.

>>2719063
The fuck is this supposed to mean?
1. Everything written on paper is also online.
2. Something being printed doesn't make it more true.
Stop using "kids these days" as your philosophy when it comes to acquiring knowledge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus#Testimonium_Flavianum

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/godlessindixie/2014/09/04/an-atheists-defense-of-the-historicity-of-jesus/

>"He certainly existed, as virtually every competent scholar of antiquity, Christian or non-Christian, agrees"

- Bart Ehrman

>"There are those who argue that Jesus is a figment of the Church’s imagination, that there never was a Jesus at all. I have to say that I do not know any respectable critical scholar who says that any more.

- Michael Grant

>"In recent years, 'no serious scholar has ventured to postulate the non historicity of Jesus' or at any rate very few, and they have not succeeded in disposing of the much stronger, indeed very abundant, evidence to the contrary.

- Richard Burridge

>>2719075
You haven't searched Instagram hashtags yet, have you?

>>2718742
Primary:
Matthew
Mark
Peter
John
Jude
James
Paul

Secondary
Josephus
Tacitus
Pliny the Younger
Thallus
Mara Bar Sarapion
Phlegon
Suetonius
Lucian of Samosata
Celsus
Jewish Talmud
Jewish Toledot Yeshu

The following can be known just by the extra-biblical sources and evidence available to us from usually hostile sources:

Jesus was born and lived in Palestine. He was born, supposedly, to a virgin and had an earthly father who was a carpenter. He was a teacher who taught that through repentance and belief, all followers would become brothers and sisters. He led the Jews away from their beliefs. He was a wise man who claimed to be God and the Messiah. He had unusual magical powers and performed miraculous deeds. He healed the lame. He accurately predicted the future. He was persecuted by the Jews for what He said, betrayed by Judah Iskarioto. He was beaten with rods, forced to drink vinegar and wear a crown of thorns. He was crucified on the eve of the Passover and this crucifixion occurred under the direction of Pontius Pilate, during the time of Tiberius. On the day of His crucifixion, the sky grew dark and there was an earthquake. Afterward, He was buried in a tomb and the tomb was later found to be empty. He appeared to His disciples resurrected from the grave and showed them His wounds. These disciples then told others Jesus was resurrected and ascended into heaven. Jesus’ disciples and followers upheld a high moral code. One of them was named Matthai. The disciples were also persecuted for their faith but were martyred without changing their claims. They met regularly to worship Jesus, even after His death.

>>2719086
>The following can be known just by the extra-biblical sources
>He was born, supposedly, to a virgin a

>>2719091
Yes.

Jesus was born of a virgin, a sign to the world that the Messiah had come. As prophesied by Isaiah in a double prophecy.

Again, from a hostile witness.

>>2719059
>jesus died in 33AD
>josephus writes antiquities of the jews in 93AD
>tacitus writes his annals in 116BC
It's clearly not a 150 years gap in either cases, and there is little reason to suspect a jew would make up an unorthodox sect or that an anti-christian senator would invent a christian figurehead.
Why are fedoras so scared that a desert hippy existed?

>>2718686
There is no doubt that he existed, whats up for debate however is if he was the real deal, just a lunatic or a fraud

>>2719104
Because they know in their heart that he is God, and are in open rebellion against him.

>>2719108
That's the case C.S. Lewis made quite profoundly.

Jesus is either a Liar, a Lunatic, or the Lord.

He did not leave any other options on the table.

>>2718686
This guy sure gets butthurt about Mahar's belief that he didn't exist historically, but rather is a composite-type figure of several people who *did* exist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a283N9mXjOQ

>>2719085
You haven't read erotic novels from the supermarket?
As I said, something being printed doesn't make it superior to a webpage.
The internet simply has more information than books, because it includes all books, and has exclusive content on top.

>>2719127
Google sure has fooled you, huh.

>>2719132
Nigger I have more books than I can fit on shelves, and I've probably been reading from before you were born.
I remember when there was no internet. Don't give me that rhetoric. Save it for the other children.

>>2719136
That might work on some people, but I'm just laughing at you right now.

I've donated more books to more libraries than you've ever owned.

I'm older than you are.

And I know exactly when the internet became interesting, because I was interested in its predecessors.

Being fooled by a search engine is pathetic. It tailors what it shows you to fit your profile. Did you not know that?

>>2719108
>>2719114
I love Lewis' trilemma because it completely silences those wishy-washy types who like to say things along the lines of "Jesus was a great moral teacher and a wise man I just don't think he was the son of God, I see him more like Buddha you know just pointing out the way and stuff : )"

No. If Jesus was not who He claimed to be, He was a monster who ought to be forgotten about.

>>2719146
I also find it odd that people who claim Jesus was a great moral teacher cannot tell me what Jesus taught.

>>2719136
>>2719143
if you're both so old how about you hurry up and fucking die already
trying to use "i'm older!" as an argument on an anonymous imageboard is pathetic

>>2719143
>introduce google for the first time in the thread in your post
>repeat this in the second post, as if someone else brought it up
>call others pathetic after using this retarded tactic

>>2719155

Hence my laughter.

Protip: the older you get, the younger old people are.

>>2719160
>Hence my laughter.
I hope it's at yourself, because you used the exact same appeal to age he did

>>2719148
>just like be nice dude :^)

>>2719165
I merely refuted his false assertions, if you paid any attention at all.

>>2719168
What's worse is Christians who think "Love God" and "Love your neighbor" were not also in the Old Covenant laws.

>>2719155
Its not an appeal to age. The guy implied I am a child who doesn't know books and thus only uses the internet, and "google has fooled you" or whatever.
I told him he is wrong. I can't do so without mentioning age.

And since he never even addressed the fact that the internet features more information, as it includes the printed ones, and has extra (like video, internet exclusive text, illustration, sound, etc), I will stop replying here.
No reason trying to talk to people who get insulted when they are corrected.

>>2719169
>I merely refuted his false assertions
No, you did nothing of the sort. The exchange was:
>I'm older than you!
>No, I'M older than YOU!
which is pretty pathetic

>>2719175
Yeah but the Hebrews have a very narrow view of who their "neighbors" are i.e. other Hebrews.

>>2719176
So much asspain for someone using their age as an appeal to authority.

Just slither away, little snake.

>>2719177
Wow, you're kind of dim. He already backtracked. You missed it. >>2719176

>>2719183
Aye, but you can split the 10 commandments into 4 Love God and 6 Love Neighbor commandments, as well as the first one obviously being Love God directly.

Judaism made the Jews insular. They were supposed to be light to the world. They turned inward instead, and then they developed a lifestyle that drove them insane.

>>2719086
>He accurately predicted the future

>But in those days, following that distress, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken. At that time people will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens. ... Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

>>2719197
Well put.

>>2719202
>this generation

You have no idea what you're talking about. You assume, or lie, that "this generation" means the one Jesus was talking to.

If you had taken the time to read the passage, "this generation" is the one who witnesses the beginning of sorrows.

It's your generation, not to put too blunt a point on it. Wars, rumors of wars, pestilences, famines, earthquakes in diverse places; these are all part of the beginning of sorrows.

>>2719202

Jesus was answering this question:

"And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

>nice discussion of religion
>actually religious people come
>it turns to shit

Every time.

>>2719222
7th post in.

>There is ZERO, I mean ZERO proof WHATSOEVER he existed. no PRIMARY sources, no SECONDARY sources nothing.
>however, he most likely did exist, even the Jews at the time noted he was real, just that he was a subversive fraud

You might be insane.

>>2719222

Let me see if I understand you.

Every time you enter a religious thread, it turns to shit.

Is that what you're saying?

Or you're irreligious, and you're enjoying an irreligious or anti-theist thread, when some people who know far more than you do ruin your ignorant bliss?

Or you have actually nothing to contribute to a thread about Jesus, and wonder why religious people do?

Which is it?

>>2719222

Citing extra-biblical sources who spoke about the historicity of Jesus Christ is "turning this thread to shit"?

>>2719086

Or are you just a snowflake, and don't like people liking what you don't like?

Do you need a safe space?

>>2719242
>citing a superman comic to prove batman is real makes me extra sophisticated

>>2719214
No, he was talking about the current generation. Elsewhere he indicates the imminent apocalypse:

>Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.

>When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next, for truly, I say to you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

Paul also thought the end would happen in his generation.

>For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

>What I mean, brothers, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they had none; those who mourn, as if they did not; those who are happy, as if they were not; those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep; those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away

>>2719247
>>Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.

Different prophesy, fulfilled by John the Revelator who saw the Second Coming, went back and wrote of it, and then died. It's in the bible. It's called the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

Next.

>>2719247
>>For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

This is the rapture, and it has not yet happened. Paul is comforting people that their dead friends in Christ did not miss the Kingdom of God being established.

Do you not know shit about Christianity, or are you actually just a lying piece of shit trying to impugn Christianity?

>>2719247
>>What I mean, brothers, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they had none; those who mourn, as if they did not; those who are happy, as if they were not; those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep; those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away

Paul knew that generation was going to face 10 waves of persecution. Not a great time to settle down, get married, and raise children.

Paul's death actually kicked off waves of persecution by Rome.

I think I'm just going to go with lying muslim piece of shit for you, not misinformed but good hearted seeker of truth.

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>An overwhelming majority of New Testament scholars and Near East historians, applying the standard criteria of historical investigation, find that the historicity of Jesus is more probable than not,[4][5][6][7][nb 1][nb 2][nb 3][nb 4] although they differ about the beliefs and teachings of Jesus as well as the accuracy of the details of his life that have been described in the gospels.[nb 5][13][nb 6][15]:168–173 While scholars have criticized Jesus scholarship for religious bias and lack of methodological soundness,[nb 7] with very few exceptions such critics generally do support the historicity of Jesus and reject the Christ myth theory that Jesus never existed.[17][nb 8][19][20][21]

>Virtually all modern scholars of antiquity agree that Jesus existed historically,[g] although the quest for the historical Jesus has produced little agreement on the historical reliability of the Gospels and on how closely the biblical Jesus reflects the historical Jesus.[22][23][24] Jesus was a Galilean Jew[13] who was baptized by John the Baptist and subsequently began his own ministry, preaching his message orally[25] and often being referred to as "rabbi".[26] He was arrested and tried by the Jewish authorities,[27] and was crucified by the order of Pontius Pilate, the Roman prefect.[28] Jesus debated fellow Jews on how to best follow God, performed healings, taught in parables and gathered followers.[28][29] After his death, his followers believed he rose from the dead, and the community they formed eventually became the Christian Church.[30]


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43mDuIN5-ww

>>2719104
And what do they say about him?

>>2718711
>>2718714
>>2718686
Not sure if you're still around OP, but here it is.

https://thebibleisnotholy.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/historical-introduction-early-christian-writings.pdf

>>2719270
>>2719273
Sure. They had divine knowledge of the furure. Sounds reasonable. True scholar ladies and gentlemen

>>2719328
Thanks.

>>2719220
And he said unto them,
"The sign of my coming shall be rapid, shallow breathing, a wincing expression upon my face, little grunts and moans, and my serious clenching, as I begin to unleash the power of my father into the world."

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>>2719300
Josephus states he was the brother of james, who was being put on trial by some jews.

And tacitus, well..
>Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judæa, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind.

>>2719339
Exactly.

God knows the end from the beginning, and tells it through his prophets, and His only begotten Son, Christ Jesus, in the bible.

Now take a hold of your normalcy bias, take one step backwards, and literally fuck your own face.

>>2719412
Pontius Pilatus was Jewish?

>>2719425
A Roman procurator.......

Not the brightest bulb on the tree, are we.

>>2719425
No, james was the one on trial by sanhedrins. Not Jesus.

>>2719434
>Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus

Tell me how you get James from that.

James. Who never believed his own half-brother was the messiah until after the resurrection.

>>2719420
>What I mean, brothers, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they had none; those who mourn, as if they did not; those who are happy, as if they were not; those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep; those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away

>this is totally accurate prediction of Roman persecution.

Go fuck yourself with a jar of marmalade.

>>2719446
Talking about the josephus source, obviously.

>>2718686
There you go op.
This guy is a real ivory tower forehead.
http://jesusneverexisted.com/
And the truth shall set you free.

To me there is nothing incredible in just another prophet with a very common name achieving local notoriety during a turbulent period in Judaea in the midst of bitter religious infighting when people were looking for a singular leader.

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>>2718754
This.
The "historical, non-christian" sources are probably just repeating what christians and other jews told them, some decades after his supposed death. There was most likely some dude that the legends built up around, but that doesn't mean that anything in the Gospels actually happened.

>>2719463
Of course it is, you nitwit.

>>2719465

Not even in the slightest. Has nothing to do with the Josephus quote above.

James is not the Christ.

At the time Pilate condemned the Christ to death, James did not even believe Jesus was the Christ.

What are you, a muslim?

>>2719478
Oh, yes, very nothing guy, very common name, did nothing special.

And yet here we are discussing him 2000 years later.

>>2719492

In what way, my marmalade jar fucking friend?

>>2719463
Revelation 2:10 Dismiss your fears concerning all that you are about to suffer. I tell you that the Devil is about to throw some of you into prison that you may be put to the test, and for ten days you will have to endure persecution. Be faithful to the End, even if you have to die, and then I will give you the victor's Wreath of Life.

>>2719504
>>2719506

>>2719501
Not sure what your point is

>>2719510
His point is that since Jesus inspired him, and is famous NOW, he must have existed. Much like King Arthur.

>>2719516
I wasn't disputing his existence, in fact my point was entirely the opposite

>>2719508

Not an answer.

>>2719475
I can't tell if you're saying to take this source at face value or not.

>>2719510
My point is your explanation fails to resolve why we're talking about this nobody on a Manchurian POG trading board in the Year of Our Lord Two Thousand Seventeen.

>>2719523
Paul warning christians of upcoming persecution.

Not an answer to why Paul was warning christians of upcoming persecution.

kek

You're an idiot dude.

>>2719528
I can't imagine anyone would take that at face value.

>>2719533
We also talk about the nobody Greek mercenaries who carved their names on Egyptian statues several centuries before Jesus

>>2718761
Find one of those notes and you've got yourself a primary source.

>>2719547
Who?

Which one of them did we base our calendar on?

>>2719533
Why would you assume I was trying to "resolve" that?

>>2719549
>Everything lasts forever.

>>2719554
>To me there is nothing incredible in just another prophet with a very common name achieving local notoriety during a turbulent period in Judaea in the midst of bitter religious infighting when people were looking for a singular leader.

Because this is you. Jesus was a nobody.

And yet he's the most famous person on earth, and instrumental in the four largest religions on earth.

There have been billions of people who have lived and died on this planet.

How many of them were prophets of God?

>>2719559
>Jesus was a nobody
Who are you quoting?

>>2719536

Where does he do that?

>>2719568
>>2719559
>>2719574
>>2719463

>>2719081
Those sources are secondary
Those quotes are just opinions

You wasted a post

Christianity didn't become a major religion until centuries after Jesus died and by that time its teachings were quite different. Jesus himself is not noteworthy in the least as a historical figure. He's just incredibly lucky to have won the Find Your Messiah lottery at the time

Probably, but right now, Jesus has been covered by so many religious layers that it's almost impossible to verify this

>>2719611
>>2719617
I wonder if the reason there are no/few primary sources would be due to the nature of discussing Jesus?

And, if Jesus were executed by the Romans, would there not be some roman public record of it? How many court records from the surrounding time have survived?

>>2719497
Are you retarded? I never said James was christ. I said James, who's brother is christ, was being trialed by the sanhedrins. Here's the fucking passage in full in mongoloid. Learn to fucking read.

>And now Caesar, upon hearing the death of Festus, sent Albinus into Judea, as procurator. But the king deprived Joseph of the high priesthood, and bestowed the succession to that dignity on the son of Ananus, who was also himself called Ananus. Now the report goes that this eldest Ananus proved a most fortunate man; for he had five sons who had all performed the office of a high priest to God, and who had himself enjoyed that dignity a long time formerly, which had never happened to any other of our high priests. But this younger Ananus, who, as we have told you already, took the high priesthood, was a bold man in his temper, and very insolent; he was also of the sect of the Sadducees, who are very rigid in judging offenders, above all the rest of the Jews, as we have already observed; when, therefore, Ananus was of this disposition, he thought he had now a proper opportunity.

1/2

>>2719497
>>2719690
>Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrin of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned: but as for those who seemed the most equitable of the citizens, and such as were the most uneasy at the breach of the laws, they disliked what was done; they also sent to the king, desiring him to send to Ananus that he should act so no more, for that what he had already done was not to be justified; nay, some of them went also to meet Albinus, as he was upon his journey from Alexandria, and informed him that it was not lawful for Ananus to assemble a sanhedrin without his consent. Whereupon Albinus complied with what they said, and wrote in anger to Ananus, and threatened that he would bring him to punishment for what he had done; on which king Agrippa took the high priesthood from him, when he had ruled but three months, and made Jesus, the son of Damneus, high priest.

2/2

>>2719687
Judaea was a clusterfuck at the best of times, they probably executed multiple "false prophets" every year, probably not something to write down for posterity

>>2719700
That's unfortunate for the case of verifying his being.

I don't really expect much in the way of personal letters to one another. I know the lack of buzz letters from normal citizens about the Son of God gets brought up as proof he doesn't exist, but I've lost all the written mail I've sent over the course of like 10 years so expecting someone to keep mail, even if it was damn important mail, in tact for two thousand is bold.

>>2718742
(((2718742))) apparently takes the Talmud as a reliable source on information about Jesus.

>>2719690
Josephus wrote about Jesus.

Jesus is recorded in Roman history.

That James is also recorded by Josephus has everything to do with Jesus, and nothing to do with James.

Jesus was on trial before the Sanhedrin, falsely tried, falsely convicted, and falsely handed over to the Romans for execution.

You half-wit.

>>2719687
You mean AS POSTED IN THIS VERY FUCKING THREAD?

>>2719412

>>2719555
>my claims need no evidence

>>2719896
>A scrap of papyrus a Jew wrote on 2000 years ago will surely survive the ages.

>>2719889
Jesus fucking christ what are you even arguing about, you stunted autist?

>he assembled the sanhedrin of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others
Read it again you retard, you are obviously sperging before reading.

>>2718686
Jesus the man, yes. Almost everyone agrees the person existed, there's even a few sources outside the bible talking about him.

Jesus the Son of God, this has been debated for literally millennia within the church itself, never mind the opinions of teenagers from the past few decades the internet has existed. You are never going to get a definitive answer until you die and find out yourself one way or another.

>>2719086
>Primary:MatthewMarkPeterJohnJudeJamesPaul


Those are not the names of the authors you retard they are made up everyone knows that.

>>2719086
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorship_of_the_Bible

not a single author of the bible ever met jesus


nice to see again and again how retarded and dumb religious people are

>>2719912
The fuck are you off on now?

Jesus was tried by the Sanhedrin.

35 years later, his halfwit brother was too. Notice they had to explain why he mattered.

he was the brother of Jesus, the one who is called the Christ.

Who is the important one again?

Who is the thread topic about again?

Who is the retard again?

>>2719976
They're the names of the authors, you absolute fuckwit.

>>2719994
Thousands of years of Christianity debunked by some autistic fedora posting bullshit on wiki.

>Things that never happen in the real world.

>>2719994
>nice to see again and again how retarded and dumb religious people are

>i r gong to hel but i m smrt! mum sez!

>>2719908
>make claim about what Jews noted 2000 years ago
>evidence is so unlikely why even bother
/his/

>>2720013
no they are not retard

the just used these names they don't even know the original authors names

even biblical scholars admitted that.

how does this make you feel? That atheists know more about your "holy book" than you?

>>2720009
>Who is the retard again?
You, obviously.

>In the Antiquities of the Jews (Book 20, Chapter 9, 1) Josephus refers to the stoning of "James the brother of Jesus" (James the Just) by order of Ananus ben Ananus, a Herodian-era High Priest.[24][25] The James referred to in this passage is most likely the James to whom the Epistle of James has been attributed.[25][26][27] The translations of Josephus' writing into other languages have at times included passages that are not found in the Greek texts, raising the possibility of interpolation, but this passage on James is found in all manuscripts, including the Greek texts.[25]
>The context of the passage is the period following the death of Porcius Festus, and the journey to Alexandria by Lucceius Albinus, the new Roman Procurator of Judea, who held that position from 62 AD to 64 AD.[25] Because Albinus' journey to Alexandria had to have concluded no later than the summer of 62 AD, the date of James' death can be assigned with some certainty to around that year.[25][28][24] The 2nd century chronicler Hegesippus also left an account of the death of James, and while the details he provides diverge from those of Josephus, the two accounts share similar elements

Pls kys k?

>>2720019
that is what bible scholars say retard

nobody knows the original authors names do your research small minded " I do not care about facts or evidence" screaming retard

>>2720019
>bullshit on wiki.
Post reliable source to debunk it or gtfo

>>2720019

That's pretty much standard Christian scholarship, you imbecile, even the most hardcore of Evangelical scholars don't claim that the Gospels were eyewitness testimonies.

Why pretend "thousands of years of Christianity" back you when you don't have a clue what you are talking about?

>>2720163
Why are you pretending you're arguing with anything other than a fedora tipping troll falseflagging? I mean, this guy has been around for ages, and it's a brilliant shtick, but do you really think someone would come on to 4chan, being a super fundamentalist baptist (or something) and then trot out the same arguments that get blasted over and over again without at the very least running to his pastor and looking for new ones?

Why are the gospels so well preserved (which popped up around 40 years after Christ's approximate time of death) but so little writing of him exists from0 - 33 AD

>>2718742
>There is ZERO, I mean ZERO proof WHATSOEVER he existed. no PRIMARY sources, no SECONDARY sources nothing.

This is bullshit. Explain the papacy line? There is an unbroken line from Jesus

>>2723025
How the fuck do you exist?

>>2723025
I think he'd argue Paul (or Peter I already have the names mixed up) made it all up so the unbroken line is from him and not from Jesus.

>>2718763
kek

>>2719550
Julius Caesar

>>2718686
I don't except anyone to change their heart, but here you go.
http://archive.is/dnM8C

File: IMG_1264.jpg (63KB, 321x411px) Image search: [Google]

63KB, 321x411px

>The letter from King Abgar to Jesus

“Abgar Uchama (the Black), to Jesus the good Savior who has appeared in the region of Jerusalem, greeting. The reports about you and your cures have reached me, how they are effected by you without drugs and herbs. For, as the story goes, you make the blind to see, the lame to walk, and you cleanse lepers, and you cast out unclean spirits and demons, and you cure those who are tortured in lingering disease, and you raise the dead. When I heard all this about you, I decided that either one of two things is true, either that you are God, and having come down from heaven are doing these things, or you are a Son of God, who does these things. On this account, then, I have written to beg you to hasten to me and to cure me of the suffering which I have. For I have heard also that the Jews murmur against you and wish to harm you. But I have a very small and venerable city which is enough for us both.”

>To which Jesus sent the reply:

“Blessed are you who have believed although you have not seen me. For it is written concerning me that those who have seen me will not believe in me, and that those who have not seen me will themselves believe and shall be saved. But regarding what you wrote me, to come to you, I must fulfill all things for which I was sent, and, after thus fulfilling them, be taken up to Him who sent me. And when I have been taken up, I shall send you one of my disciples to heal your suffering and to give life to you and those with you.”