Was Weimar as bad it people say it was?

>>2717375
Yes it sucked, maybe 1 year of the Golden Era under Stresseman was good, but political conflict, hyperinflation, constant bullying by the Treaty of Versailles and a shitty democratic system (proportional representation) made the country into a mess that allowed Hitler to take advantage.

>>2717375
It was a time of poverty and hyperinflation and of nightclubs and kabaretts.

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>>2717413
>>2717425

I thought the hyper inflation was solved by Hjalmar Schacht in 1923, and after the occupation of the Ruhr the League of Nations backed down, yet afterwards there was rampant sexual freedom to the point where something called "sexology" was founded. /pol/ thinks that that majority of those in these artistic movement were Jews which is what provoked the Nazis.

What do my fellow /his/torians think?

I think the sexual liberation of the era is overstated, and mostly just as a justification for the fact there were still plenty of Germans pining for the days of an Emperor.

>>2717440
Many of the lead artists and socialists were Jews. Kurt Weill for instance. He's about as Weimar as it gets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-5ata4jDyk

There was also a communist failed revolution in 1919.

Rudolf Hess, tried to negotiate peace with Britain in 1941(before Barbarossa) and was arrested, tried for war crimes and crimes against humanity after WW2, imprisoned for life, committed suicide at age 93.

>>2717452
>committed suicide at age 93.

Literally why he was about to die. Was he only trying to follow der Fuhrer?

>>2717458
Guess he was just sick of it, he was literally the only one in the prison, everyone else's sentence was finished, or released on counts of bad health.

>>2717458
He had extremely poor mental health his entire life. Who knows?

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>>2717444
>I think the sexual liberation of the era is overstated

Supposedly the after affects of whoring during WW 1 and the brief period of hyper inflation combined with the Marxist takeover in in 1919 (not the Spartacists the Socialists who sided with the Freikorps) created horrible prostituion rings. Child prostitution became incredibly prevalant, German culture was mocked in plays, the roaring 20's came etc.

>They just wanted an Emperor

Didn't Hitler only win by like 10% in 1933?

>>2717440
What about the Great Depression? That fucked up the weimar republic real good.

>>2717413
Five years. And even poor Germany from 1923 was more wealthy than East Europe, for example Poland.

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>>2717460
>Himmler kills himself
>Hitler kills himself
>Everyone else is either exexuted or died already

Sounds like he was in a pretty bad spot.

>>2717470
Wasn't it Goebbels who was the one who was depressed?

>>2717473
Hyper inflation didn't come back then, although the GDP did drop significantly.

>>2717447
the communist "revolution" was pretty pathetic t b h. it was only slightly more successful than Hitler's beer hall putsch

>>2717478
He killed himself in 1987, long after the war

>>2717460

This. He probably realised he was going to die anyway, so did it on his terms.

>>2717476
No one was as bad as Germany in the early 20's except Russia.

>>2717473
Weimar democracy was dead since 1930. Hitler only desecrated its corpse.

>>2717478
Goebbels was depressed but Hess was a borderline schizo.

>>2717488

The only part of the Weimar Republic that ever had a remotely functional democracy to begin with was unironically Prussia.

>>2717486
You're wrong. By 1924 Germany was one of the most powerful countries in Europe again and in 1925 they declared a custom war on Poland.

>>2717488
He didn't win by much, and the Fire of the Reichstag still seems like a mystery to me, although it definitely seems to be the nazis.

>>2717494
That's why I said early 20's until Schanct's reforms. Germans were always more rich than Poles, in fact the Germans who remained in Germany after the League of Nations made the country had their land taken away by the Second Polish Republic because of this, which is one of the sources of the squabbles between the Nazis and the Poles

>>2717490
What was wrong with Weimar democracy? Everything worked reasonably well until 1930 and the Bruning government.

>>2717499
Interesting, usually when I think of Hitler's rise to power, I think of overwhelming support by the German people.. Did the opposition dissipate after the following years, or did it linger?

>>2717489
Sauce? There are a lot of pop history memes about the Nazis I've heard but I only ever heard small speculation about Hess being depressed and paranoid.

>>2717511
The communists and SocDems not working together is part of what led to Hitler's rise. The communists were taken to reeducation camps but some joined the SA. Most of the SocDems just went along with the Fascists.

>>2717509
Poland was as poor as Romania in early 1920s. East Europe in general was a shithole, it was actually better to live in Germany even in 1923 than in East Europe (except maybe Czechoslovakia). I don't know about other countries but hyperinflation also happened in Poland.

>>2717521
Actually most members of SPD were arrested or left the country. They moved to Czechoslovakia and formed Sopade.

>>2717518
http://eliotslater.org/index.php/psychiatry/pathography/199-the-illness-of-rudolf-hess-a-phenomenological-analysis-1972?start=7

>>2717511
It wasn't until later that he got the popularity that became emblematic of the Nazis, a lot of it was due to Hjalmar Schanct's trade deals and much of the fascistic economic programs of the nazis like focusing on public works and extreme autarky. Of course Schanct disagreed about the anti-jew stuff and was a free market guy, so he was posted by Goering later on... But that didn't stop the public's support of Hitler.

>>2717510
Nobody could make decisions because every party was equally powerful, and there were more than 50 parties, so the chancellor had to use article 48 (emergency powers) to get shit done.

>>2717527
>Psychopath

Everyone who was in the Nazi party was accused of being a psychoptah meanwhile they clearly exhibit empathetic traits. A Psychopath would never sue for peace with Britain, that is nonsensical.

Sounds like a money making book to me.l akin to the Nazi gold memes of the History Channel.

>>2717532
Hjalmar Schacht? Wasn't he tried at Nuremberg? For what?

>>2717511
You can easily check how many people voted for NSDAP in each election.

It was a very popular party, but they never got more than 37% of votes. CDU/CSU in 1950s was even more popular than Hitler.

>>2717538
From what I've read, Hess did seem pretty mentally unstable though...

>>2717537
But that's not really true. There were few big parties and they usually formed coalitions. Like I said, everything worked pretty well until 1930.

>>2717522
True, but Poland's hyperinflation wasn't as severe as Germany's and didn't occur until 1923, which is when it ended for Germany.

Eastern Europe was always poor, but Germany went through much more radical changes which is what set up the nazis so well

>>2717542
Yeah he was tried for crimes against peace but not crimes against humanity because he left the party before the world war even began. Schanct was a weird case, he was a German nationalist who just sided with the Nazis because they were the people in power, he didn't really agree with the anti semitism or the extreme anti-capitalism.

>>2717550
>radical changes
I agree. It was too early for German democracy. Almost every political movement wanted to destroy their young republic. When SPD lost workers to KPD and NSDAP everything went to hell.

>>2717538
Yes but he had severe amnesia and believed Jews were poisoning him to be rude to people.

>>2717375
Their constitution was so democratic it allowed other parties to destroy democracy.

>>2717547
Yeah so did Goebbels, but this trend of dehumanizing the Nazis isn't really justified by the personal diaries of Goebbels where he expressed being near suicidal sometimes.

Guy lived through brutal times that had to put pressure on him and influence his politics.

>>2717573
>Amnesia

After or before the war? First of all I'm always skeptical about psychological analysis of the Nazis because it's very prone to sensationalist stories, kind of like the Holocaust stories made by people who weren't actually present at the Holocaust who were just looking for money.

>>2717578
Most Nazis were pathetic human beings. Outsiders, larpers and failures. There were some exceptions like Goering, but I'm not sure if he even cared about their ideology that much.

Do you think these kind of people could ever come back again? Reading Heinrich's biography on Wikipedia is creepy because there are a lot of nutcases out there that think like him. The internet's sense of almost completely unmoderated free speech has lead to the creation of communities like /pol/ and they seem to get bigger and bigger.

>>2717583
He claimed to have suffered amnesia both during and after the war and that he couldn't recall many things about the Nazis.

>>2717584
>Rohm: decorated war vet
>Hitler : decorated war vet
>etc

Yeah no none of them were pathetic all of the various people involved in it were great men even if you don't like what they did

>>2717585
I doubt it. Putin-style authoritarian rule is more possible.

>>2717590
>that he couldn't recall many things about the Nazis.

You realize this was probably him trying to have an excuse to not he bothered and not he questioned about war crimes so he wasn't executed?

Probably was lying

>>2717585
Yes and what's scarier is that you'll join the eventually.

>Inb4 hurr determinism is a failed meme

Time to read up about monozygotic twins and lurkmoar

>>2717595
You can be a decorated war veteran and still be a social failure. And zHitler definitely was. Rohm was a homosexual with bizarre ideas about 'trench socialism'. Hardly perfectly stable people.

>>2717606
>Making excuses

Hitler is probably one of the best speech givers of the modern Era since the 1600's and these social failures exerted more power and influence than any ordinary person could exude. They had their flaws like men then rose through the ranks of their society via a populist movement on the basis that they were self made men for other to look up to.

They were all success stories even if you don't like the results of their success.

>Rohm was gay

And? I mean first of all that believing for whatever reason he was wacked in the Night of the Long Knives from the Nazis which could very well just he a lie because he was somewhat leaning towards the Strasser brothers, but so what if he was?

>>2717585
>/pol/
>community
>unmoderated free speech
>getting bigger
>being more than a few trolls and misguided foll
Also
>implying free speech should be restrict because the ebil Nazis are coming
Wew lad

>>2717613
Ignore the typos btw mobile is the worst

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>>2717606
>'trench socialism

tell me moar

>>2717614
/pol/ didn't used to be so bad. It got invaded by newfags because of is edginess and reputation but a lot of the Traditionalists/libertarian oldfags (of /pol/ and /new/) migrated here or to 8ch*n.
Whenever we have a straw poll it's usually Traditionalists and libertarians who are the majority.

>>2717613
His speeches are weak populist nonsense. But apparently this is what the Germans wanted to hear in 1930s.

>so what if he was
Like I said, he was an outsider.

>>2717597

I'm talking more of the long run. How will the US and especially Europe's government with the migrant crisis look like in the 2030's, 2040's, or 2050's?


>>2717614

/pol/ is the largest board on the entire site. It has definitely gotten bigger since 2014 or so.

Not to mention there are a bunch of YT channels out there like Varg that network with each other to promote their ideals.

>implying free speech should be restrict because the ebil Nazis are coming
Wew lad

/pol/ tries to start a lot of racial based hatred and tries to make the situations we already have worse than they already are.

>>2717627
>His speeches are weak populist nonsense.
>Be me
>Be /lit/ fag

Not really, his delivery and rhetorical appeals are phenomenal. Populism isn't a priori bad either.

>>2717620
National socialism. This is how Rohm and some others explained their movement. Men living and dying together in the trenches was the real socialism, international socialism was fake and created by Jews.

Read NSDAP program, economically and socially it's clearly left-wing.

>>2717632
>/pol/ tries to start a lot of racial based hatred and tries to make the situations we already have worse than they already are.
>Racial tensions are the fault of whites Nazis on /pol/

What did he mean by this?

>>2717637
There is nothing interesting or new in his speeches. When I watched Triumph of the Will I was surprised how anyone could have voted for this screaming idiot.

>>2717640
>Read NSDAP program, economically and socially it's clearly left-wing.

Just because something is anti-bourgie doesn't make it left wing. They set wage caps to eliminate the Pareto Distribution then minimized free market interactions in favor of smaller autarky and protectionism.

Originally the Nazis wanted to have an agrarian revolution so they GDP was meant to shrink over time. They weren't socialists either, they were collectivist who kept trying to distance themselves from their namesake which is pretty hilarious desu

>>2717645
>There was nothing knee
Because the film was made 70 years ago, you've heard everything about it as have your parents and your parents before you , of course it isn't new now topkek.

For it's time it was incredible, and even then the way Hitler directs himself and organizing his speeches for the time is impressive as fuck.

>>2717645
That's the whole point. The cameraderie, the grandiosity. It was like a giant cult to the German people.

>>2717656
>knee

*new

>>2717640
Rohm's idea of National Socialism was and was probably comparable to modern North Korea. Hitler's National "Socialism" was capitalist.

>>2717657
I mean after 200 or so years of trying to unifying Germans under a single nation and given the conditions of the Weimar Era fraught with extreme poverty, political tensions via the many coups (1919 spartacist revolt being one of the) , and extreme decline in traditional morals... I mean what would you expect this is like a breeding ground for extremism

>>2717641

They are, yes. It's not just /pol/, there are several communities throughout the internet that try to attempt the same thing. It might seem silly right now but political movements take time to grow.

>>2717650
13. We demand the nationalization of all associated industries (trusts)
14. We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries
15. We demand an expansion on a larger scale of old age welfare
17. We demand a land reform suitable for our needs, provision of a law for three expropriation of land for the purposes of public utility, abolition of taxes on land and prevention of all speculation in land

Almost like Commies.

>>2717661
>was capitalist

Meh not really, the capitalists left or were driven out, and the actual Marxists were killed during the Knight of the Long Knives.

>>2717656
There is not a single original idea in Hitler's movement. Volkish ideology + Socialism, that's it.

>>2717671
That's called collectivism, so yes it is like commies, but socialists and commies don't retain class differences while fascists do. In fact the preservation of the Aristocracy is an integral part of fascism, it's just that they rethink what an Aristocracy ought to mean which differs from traditional nobility in that its based on ability and not birth.

>>2717682
>There is not a single original idea
>Volkish

Well you just contradicted yourself right there , pretty sure fringe groups like the Thule Society and then the formation of Positive Christianity was pretty original to me desu.

>Socialism

Fascism. They are both based off of Hegel and Sorel so people get confused a lot but there is a difference.

>>2717684
>based on ability
More like based on ability to suck Hitler's dick.

>>2717690
Volkish ideology exists since 19th century. Hitler didn't create it.

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>>2717585

No

Apart from the fact all the permanent UNSC members (the former Allied Powers) would blanket Germany with nuclear weapons if the Nazis unironically somehow managed to seize power again and started rearming, Nazism was so throughly discredited by it's brutality that it's modern adherents basically have to renounce most of the core tenants of the ideology to publicly justify themselves.

Even the most extreme "Neo-Nazis" like Andy Anglin and George Lincoln Rockwell are mild by the standards of Himmler and Heydrich. They have loose standards for the definition of an "Aryan" and are content with the mere removal of non-white races, rather than their extermination.

>>2717697
Actually the entire concept of Blood and Soil dates back to ancient pagan times you're right, but the ideals of the Thule Society were very specific and based on other paganistic views

>>2717693
Nice meme

>>2717698
Technically it's modern adherents deny the violence ever occured and don't care, and if so fascist revolution occured this time it would be continent wide and would only occur after something which would make 2008 look like a child's play thing. If it did happen, it would take over the government of all of the "the west"

>We're content with just the removal of non white races

So was Hitler. He wasn't even the most extreme person in the Nazis (dank Beatles reference for you young fags) and until 1939 he was continent of the deportation of the Jews and planned with Shancht on this front via the Madagascar Plan and Havaraa Agreement.

Of course it was bickering with Poland over who gets to annex Danzig from the League of Nations which then lead he Allies into the war

>>2717708
>We're

They're

>Continent

Content

>he

The

>>2717698
The Nazi government in the 40s never openly talked of exterminating other races but of deporting them to other nations.

>>2717708

The great depression occurred in the US in the 1930's. How come there wasn't any kind of similar political movement in the US?

>>2717708
Haavara Agreement was completely inefficient.

>>2717718
No hyper inflation, attempted communist revolution, and coup attempts. Also the US wasn't in Europe , but it did have the German Bund founded in 1936

>>2717727
None of this happened in the early 1930s in Germany.

>>2717730
No it happened in the 20's which is when the Nazi party was first formed out of the German Worker's Party and where Europe had sweeping and massive communist revolutions. Plus Weimar Germany was horrible, about as if not worse than the US during the Great Depression.

>>2717708
>>2717714

Hitler talked about Lebensraum (Germany's seizing the territory of others for their own use, and the removal of the existing inhabitants, presumably by deportation or bullets if they refused to leave) in Mein Kampf. Apart from the fact the Nazi Party maintained eliminationist rhetoric towards Jews throughout its entire existence, various Nazi Party sources also began using the phrase "Final Solution" in reference to Jews and Gypsies as early as 1937.

Although they may have not been 100% committed to a plan for genocide in 1937, there were probably already those starting to brainstorm the idea.

>>2717718

There was the Ku Klux Klan of the 1920s, which at the time was more popular in the United States than the Nazis were in Germany, but it began to fall apart after a series of scandals ranging from corruption to murder (of whites). The Great Depression pretty much finished them off until they were revived in the 50s after the Federal government started intervening to enforce Brown v. Board of Education.

>>2717753
Actually in Mein Kampf , at least the edition I read through I don't know about you, he flat our says that extermination of Jews is on the table if he is invaded by a coalition of capitalist allies. I mean he doesn't explicitly say it, but he basically says that due to the Jewish involvement in capitalism and communism he "has no other choice".

Of course this didn't matter to him in terms of Emil Maurice and the other more open jewish soldiers because his concept of "the Jew" was basically personified in materialistic idealogies for example capitalism and communism. This is also how he justified the Lebensraum, he basically said that war with communism is inevitable because of internationalist communist movement via the Commintern, and given the previous war with the communists in the 29's he convinced a lot of people that the Lebensraum was inevitable.

>>2717767
The KKK was literally nothing in comparison to the Nazis, in fact about 1/4th of the people they lynched in he South were white. Most of the deaths had to do with accusations of rape and cattle rustling.

They also stemmed back to 19th century movement like the Order of the White Camellia

>>2717718
>>2717767

The Klan also suffered (and has always suffered) from a lack of centralized leadership to coordinate its efforts to muscle their way into mainstream politics Even Nathan Bedford Forrest, the alleged first Grand Wizard, had little to no operational control over the organization as a whole (and how could he, the 1st Klan spent as much time killing each other as they did blacks and Union soldiers).

The Nazis on the other hand, had the exact opposite of this problem. Their decision-making processed was centralized to the point of excess (further worsened by Hitler's often cryptic instructions).

>>2717791
^^^^ this

>>2717782

The KKK had 6,000,000 (not a (((coincidence))) I assure you) members in 1925. The Nazis had a mere 25,000 at the same time.

>>2717802
>6,000,000

That's the highest possible estimate of the 2nd Klan . Estimates range from 2 million to 6 million and I really doubt them having 6 million, even if they did the majority of their member were softcore as fuck, most of them were just WASP's attracted to the Christian sentiments of the group. There weren't 2-6 million people geared up to lynch the negro or white heretic on the street.

In comparison the Wehrmacht had something like 15 million people geared up for muh Lebensraum

>>2717471
>Supposedly the after affects of whoring during WW 1 and the brief period of hyper inflation combined with the Marxist takeover in in 1919 (not the Spartacists the Socialists who sided with the Freikorps) created horrible prostituion rings.
Talking to a wall but all the marxists of the era opposed prostitution and saw it as a product of the vast wealth inequality of weimer capitalism

>>2717862
Yes the prostitution was blamed on liberalism not communism, but it was the overall destruction of contemporary identities which the Bolsheviks engaged in which pissed off the nazi.

>>2717673
>Meh not really
Yes really.

There was nothing radical or unique about Nazi Germany's economy. It was standard neo-Keynesianism

>>2717972
>Capitalists think they are the arbiters of existence for all forms of economic policy

Focusing on public works and relying on debt financing was a method used far before Keynes was ever born, and unless I'm mistaken Keynes bever advocated for people to break up the Pareto Distribution within a free market system by setting radical wage caps and rely on autarky induced scarcity to incentivize production

>>2717773

That was my understanding as well. Forgot to mention it. On top of the thinly veiled threats of Hitler, Julius Streicher's newspaper, Der Sturmer called for the annihilation of Jews on a routine basis (this, along with his inability to stop insulting the judges, was the reason he was executed). Ironically, even those Anglin's Daily Stormer obviously takes its name from Der Sturmer, it stops short of Der Sturmer's blatant acts of libel and calls for violence.

Himmler himself once touched on this bizarre dichotomy where even Hitler, the Nazi of Nazis, who saw Jews collectively as a faceless evil monstrosity plotting against the good people of German day and night was merciful, even dare I say, kind to Jews on an individual basis.

"And then they turn up, the upstanding 80 million Germans, and each one has his decent Jew. They say the others are all swines, but this particular one is a splendid Jew. But none has observed it, endured it. Most of you here know what it means when 100 corpses lie next to each other, when there are 500 or when there are 1,000."

>>2717585
you seriously think they ever left? kek

>>2718129
>Communists think they don't define their very existence around the existence of capitalism

LOL

>>2717471

Child prostitution is the opposite of "sexual liberation."

>>2717585
>thinly veiled attack against free speech
censorship only pushes vitriolic speech underground where it can grow unchecked and unchallenged

>>2717413
Versailles was not really that hard on Germany.

>>2717458
>Spend fifty years in prison when everyone else was released
>Sound state of mind

Pick one

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>>2719184
>I'm a communist for pointing out that the fascists weren't really Keynesian and that Keynes wasn't the inventor of investing heavily in public works like infrastructure nor a fan of setting massive wage caps

O-okay

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>>2717829

True, but the mere act of donning the white hood and attending rallies can serve as a gateway to further radicalization. Putting on a uniform serves to not only make you stand out, but isolate you from both the mainstream and the perceived enemy. At which point, darker thoughts that you never would've contemplated beforehand are allowed to fester.

https://www.libertarianinstitute.org/justice/rise-wannabe-political-street-warrior/

>>2717671
It's just like what happened in the USSR because what happened there was fascism, not communism. Just because they called themselves communists (just like how the Nazis and other fascist parties called themselves socialists at the time, and call themselves "democratic republics" and similar names now) doesn't make it so.

>>2717375

The idea that the Weimar Republic was terrible is literally Nazi propaganda.

>>2719365
>Any kind of centralized collectivist movement is now fascism

It was Socialism, or as communists would say "state capitalism"

>>2719346
>Putting on a uniform serves to not only make you stand out, but isolate you from both the mainstream and the perceived enemy

I mean if you're talking about wearing masks at a political rally, yes that tends to lead to violence , but I would probably argue that the inherent difference in opinions is what leads to the violence more. I don't really agree with the Jungian Shadow Self concept.

>Libertarian institute

Hmmm

>>2717585
>Do you think these kind of people could ever come back again?

Of course they could.

Everyone has the capability of being a Nazi.

Even in Germany at that time there were several tens of thousands of Communists that changed ideological allegiance to Nazism when they got power, which implies to me that a lot of people simply attached themselves to whatever power structure was going to win in order to feel justified in unleashing some kind of resentment upon the world.

>>2717375
The constitution design was actually the best IMO. The economic stress for a republic that just replaced a 500 year old institution was too much though.

>>2717673
>Meh not really, the capitalists left or were driven out
Lol, no. Got any citations?

>>2717440
You know how we had the 'economic crisis' in 2008 and it was pretty bad and we never actually recovered fully but right now its also not that bad.

It was really bad and they recovered but it also wasn't good really.

>>2717471
Also there were 'children of the feilds' doing hippy like shit and sexing and drugging like hippies in the woods listening for fairies and nymphs.

>>2717829
> There weren't 2-6 million people geared up to lynch the negro or white heretic on the street.

There weren't millions of Germans to exterminate Jews in Death Camps and yet it still happened.

>>2719450
Hjalmar Schanct? That's pretty famous

>>2717962
>hurr durr, this is a thread where i try to subtly shill for the nazis and justify their seizure of power!

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>>2719456
>There weren't millions of Germans to exterminate Jews in Death Camps

Wut are you denying the holocaust or are you just stupid?

>>2719470
The implication was that millions weren't in on it. You didn't have to be in on it for it to happen because of a dangerous few.

>>2719466
>Stating and objective fact

Liberalism was capitalism and the Nazis blamed capitalism for the prostitution and loose sexual.morals of the Weimar Era. Then they blamed the communists for trying to create a post identity world.

How is that shilling for the Nazis?

>>>/leftypol/

>>2719456
There sure was. It wouldn't have been possible to pull of a genocide of that industrial-tier magnitude unless the whole edifice of the society was in on it, all the way from bank clerks to prison guards.

>>2719474
Except there were actually 15 million soldiers searching for Jews to be given over to the camps , whereas Tha Klan's base membership we're just trendy WASP's who fled the movement pretty quickly once it started getting too violent.

>>2717613
>Hitler is probably one of the best speech givers of the modern Era since the 1600's
>hitler is the only orator i've heard in the history of the last 400 years, therefore he's the best!
ftfy, stormweenie

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>>2719494
>Be random vagabond
>Become leader of Germany because bad was bad at speeches
>Be so bad that people a hundred years later people are still drawn to the idealogy despite genociding millions of people

It all makes sense now

>>2717452
>the one guy that literally din do nuffin (compared to everyone else at spandau) had to sit out the rest of his life in prison to appease the Russians

No wonder he went crazy

>>2717656
>even then the way Hitler directs himself and organizing his speeches for the time is impressive as fuck.
[citation needed]

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Daily reminder.

>>2719529
>[citation needed]

Literally how new are you?

>Commanding tone
>Well paced
>No strange mannerisms
>Directs the crowd with ease with what actions he does take
>Structures the speeches in such a way that keeps the crowd in constant action

I could go on, but yeah pretty everyone admits Hitler was a sliver tongues devil. Except for you apparently. Triumph of the will is /kino/ as fuck also, Goebbels and the Nazis really knew how to make good propoganda.

>>2719479
it's quite obvious that you're pushing the narrative that the nazis were innocent people who just wanted to save german culture and the communists are evil. its a crude exaggeration at best.
on top of that you're projecting your white nationalism onto the past by talking post-identity as though marxists back then were somehow equivalent to identity politics today which, again, is a childish simplification of history.

>>2719560
>twitter screenshot
>saved as a jpg
Fuck you and everything you stand for

>>2719576
Wew, better calm down the asspain there boyo, it's just the internet.

>>2719507
you're really bad at comprehending the ideas behind posts, aren't you? to say that hitler was the best orator in four hundred years is NOT AT ALL the same as arguing that his skills helped him gain power in Germany, you dunce.

>Be so bad that people a hundred years later people are still drawn to the idealogy despite genociding millions of people
because it's crude and easy to digest. a few people falling for propagandist pictures and film they see on the internet is also not the same thing as "understanding" nazi ideology, which few people actually do.
People are still drawn to the ideology, too, for the exact reason you mention; it will always edgy and offensive to defend an ideology responsible for the deaths of millions. Disaffect elements in our society (you) are attracted to it cause they think "my life is shit because niggers and kikes!"

>>2717549

>everything worked well for 12 years

>>2719575
>t's quite obvious that you're pushing the narrative that the nazis were innocent people who just wanted to save german culture and the communists are evil. its a crude exaggeration at best.
>What is a Machievellian personality type projecting his own moral order onto other people

No? If excessive positive liberty and sexual liberation is a problem to you, or if the Marxist concept of a post-identity world built around labor bothers you, that doesn't make you a Nazi and that doesn't make me someone pushing Nazi propoganda. Yes the Germans actually we're trying to save German culture because Marxists wanted a post identity civilization, and liberals are hyper individualists who didn't care much for traditional mores and pushed a radical artistic movement in the Era based on sexual liberation. That's not the first time there has been sexual liberation movement in history other fyi


>As though Marxists back then are like the Marxists of today

Literally where are you getting this from, the "Marxists" you hear so much about are just liberals LARP'ing as communists I've already said that actual Marxists of the early 20th century wanted a post identity world? On top of that you're denying history has a tendency to repeat itself based on a false analysis of what I've been saying.

Lrn2 reading comprehension

>>2719566
how new are you? did you know that the sticky says you should try to use sources? how do you know he was ahead of his time? have you actually READ a book on this time period?

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>>2719613
Name someone better and more successful than Hitler, a guy who went from being homeless to the archetypal modern dictator and ruler of Germany?

Seems to me you're just a butthurt liberal newfag who can't get over the fact that Hitler's speeches convinced both populists and elitist alike to join him. Are you being bullied by a skinhead or something?

>>2719635
>Try to use sources
>"Triumph of the will" is not an example of Hitler's speeches or propoganda
>Mentions the sticky

You can't make yourself anymore obvious can you?

>>2719464
Who owned companies? Nazis even privatized stuff. Don't know why you name Schacht.

>>2719664
>Who owned companies

Depended on the company, some of them were state owned and some of them weren't

>Why name Schanct

Because he and the pro free market people were coonly.ingored or ousted by Goering?

>>2719626
>says i'm projecting
>proceeds to projects a suspect psycho-babble category because i point out this you're a nazi apologist.

>doesn't make you a Nazi
i didn't say that
>doesn't make me someone pushing Nazi propoganda.
if does, unless you're so obtuse you don't recognize that your spouting the same tired old apologist lines; distorting and making crude generalization about political ideas that offend you, totally disregarding the fact that the nazi conception of German culture (which they actually made a mockery of in their own way) was inseparable from their other egregious racial ideas.

> liberals are hyper individualists who didn't care much for traditional mores
source? are we going off your feelings?
>liberals are hyper individualists who didn't care much for traditional mores and pushed a radical artistic movement in the Era based on sexual liberation.
point me to statistics that prove that anyone but a small percentage of germany engaged in the sexual liberation movement.

>I've already said that actual Marxists of the early 20th century wanted a post identity world
post-identity is a meaningless word if you don't specify what it means. i take it you mean racial mixing, cultural destruction etc. etc. but i'm pretty sure that marxists, being utopians of a sort, envision ""real"" communism as one where one is free to produce whatever one wants and engage in whatever activities one wants. It's fanciful but quite clearly it leaves room for someone interested in their culture and identity.

>On top of that you're denying history has a tendency to repeat itself
I never said it can't, but the repeated history your seeing today is not whats causing "decay" in society imo.

>>2719643
triumph of the will is admired by film critics, that's no secret. It's the fact that you take an unabashed propaganda film at face value and appear to believe that germany and hitler as it appeared in the film was how it was in reality is...childish as I've already said.

>>2719638
>Name someone better and more successful than Hitler, a guy who went from being homeless to the archetypal modern dictator and ruler of Germany?
when did I ever say that Hitler's career was not impressive? I've read more on the man than you and I can tell you that without his oratory he wouldn't have gotten where he was. that's impressive, sure. But besides that one skill, Hitler was pretty average or even mediocre. tldr you're strawmanning

>Seems to me you're just a butthurt liberal newfag
you seem mad
>Hitler's speeches convinced both populists and elitist alike to join him.
again, where did I say this?

>>2719688
>All this projection
>Calls basic philosophic concepts pyscho babble

K

>if does, unless you're so obtuse you don't recognize that your spouting the same tired old apologist lines; distorting and making crude generalization about political ideas that offend you, totally disregarding the fact that the nazi conception of German culture (which they actually made a mockery of in their own way) was inseparable from their other egregious racial ideas.

Those were traditional German ideas of the self. Many of them were paganists, and in the beginning they were just a worker's party centered around conservative values

>Source : your feelings
>Capitalists, the people who believe in free markets
>Not pro positive liberty

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexology

Ffs lurkmoar

>post-identity is a meaningless word if you don't specify what it means. i take it you mean racial mixing, cultural destruction etc. etc. but i'm pretty sure that marxists, being utopians of a sort, envision ""real"" communism as one where one is free to produce whatever one wants and engage in whatever activities one wants. It's fanciful but quite clearly it leaves room for someone interested in their culture and identity.
>He just keeps on strawmanning

Literally tell me where I said I was against racemixing I'm already race mixed you faggot topkek. I keep telling you what I mean by Marxism and you keep not reading it.

>point me to statistics that prove that anyone but a small percentage of germany engaged in the sexual liberation movement.

Point me to one that says otherwise, but either it doesn't matter, I'm not a Nazi I don't care. Is there evidence of increased liberal sexuality in the 20's that was widespread in the west? In the 20's? Really kid?

>I never said it can't, but the repeated history your seeing today is not whats causing "decay" in society imo.

Literally when did I say this you have an extreme problem.with trying to make me into /pol/ and denying basic facts

>>2719470
>>2719484

The SS-Totenkopfverbände (the group that is the most responsible for actually carrying out the Final Solution) numbered 23,000 strong at their height. The Einatzgruppen (responsible for the initial wave of killings) numbered 3,000. The RSHA, which ran Germany's law enforcement agencies and planned deportations of Jews as well as actually hunting down those in hiding numbered 50,000.

Not counting individual cases of Germans going out of there way to kill Jews or the fact RHSA had multiple duties that had nothing do with the Final Solution, that would put the number of people directly responsible for the Holocaust at 76,000.

>>2719720
>The entire concept of sleep he operates under is a false sense of maturity despite the fact he's done nothing but strawman, project, and tell me he reads a lot and he knows these things, repeatedly, gratuitously even.

I'd be surprised if you were over 18 t b h

>You're strawmanning

I only said that Hitler was the best Orator of the modern era, then you agreed with me and said I was strawmanning?

>again, where did I say this?

What? I was referring to when you said "Nazis were all low IQ idiots" despite inventing the V2 and attracting nearly all the elites of Germany and most of the common citizens. Like do you just not know about the NASA and then hiring Nazi scientists? Is that now no longer a meme among millenials?

>>2719759
>The wehrmact dindu nuffin
>The German army didn't assist the brigades designed for extermination, ever even though there was 15 million of them

Okay

>>2719758
>Calls basic philosophic concepts pyscho babble
psychological categories aren't philosophical concepts

>Those were traditional German ideas of the self.
wat are those
>Many of them were paganists
is this what you consider "traditional" german ideas? any so-called """pagan""" ideas were fictions created by the romantic movement.

>just a worker's party centered around conservative values
another disingenuous characterization. if you're referring to the 25 points that was a hodge podge of different ideological ideas to pander to big business, small businessmen, nationalists and socialists, it was a contradictory and self-serving piece of paper.
and by the way, the original worker's party it never "just" a conservative workers party. It was unapologetically ultra-nationalist, anti-semitic and even somewhat occultist (the swastika literally poached from german mystical racial theories) from the get-go and they were just as willing to resort to violence as they were later. no amount of window dressing on your part can hide those facts.

>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexology
again. i said STATISTICS. what percentage of the population became sexually liberated? i guarantee you that one fringe movement cited from wikipedia is not evidence of a nationwide sexual revolution. Germany was still VERY conservative by our standards today.

>iterally tell me where I said I was against racemixing I'm already race mixed you faggot topkek.
nope. to use the word "post-identity", the way its tossed around today, and the way you use it, quite clearly implies "the liquidation of cultural heritage" through cultural marxism and racemixing. /pol/ uses it in this manner all the time, and the fact that you're playing dumb tells me your either idiotic or a /pol/fag trying to colonize this board.

>I keep telling you what I mean by Marxism and you keep not reading it.
>it's not marxism unless it doesn't fit my idiosyncratic definition!

>>2719758
>Literally when did I say this
when you talk about restoring culture that is fading and loathing the sexual revolution are familiar tropes of cultural pessimism and anxiety about decay and stagnation; you don't have to say "decay" to understand that.

>>The entire concept of sleep he operates under is a false sense of maturity despite the fact he's done nothing but strawman, project, and tell me he reads a lot and he knows these things, repeatedly, gratuitously even.
what did he mean by this?

>I only said that Hitler was the best Orator of the modern era, then you agreed with me and said I was strawmanning?
nope. you're ignoring what i'm saying. calling hitler the best orator in four hundred years of history, again, is not the same thing as saying hitler was skilled at using his rhetorical skills to gain power. and its also NOT the same thing as saying he's the best orator in modern history, I never said that lmao.

>"Nazis were all low IQ idiots"
when did i say this? even the smartest people can fall for crude propaganda if you repeat it enough. hitler knew that quite well and wrote about it in mein kampf.

>despite inventing the V2
and invented by scientists who grew up in Weimar and Wilhelmine Germany. Nazi education was a joke and they were notorious for turning the universities into campgrounds and ideological training.

>nearly all the elites of Germany
he didn't. the traditional elites absolutely despised him. they wanted a restored monarchy not a regime run by an upstart. they came to reconcile themselves with the regime because coercion and because people like himmler privileged the traditional aristocrats for the SS, but that came later. This is not the same thing as attracting elites to nazi ideology.

>most of the common citizens.
huh? the nazis won at most like 33 to 35% of the vote in fair weimar elections. in early 1933 they got 44% and that even was with bald violence against the social democrats and the communists and their supporters.

>>2720207
>Is there evidence of increased liberal sexuality in the 20's that was widespread in the west? In the 20's? Really kid?
so you go off of memes from pop culture as historical fact, i take it?

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>>2720093
>psychological categories aren't philosophical concepts
>Positive vs negative liberty
>Psychological categories

I'm done. No one man can be this will fully ignorant.

>is this what you consider "traditional" german ideas? any so-called """pagan""" ideas were fictions created by the romantic movement.

No it was more complicated than that

>25 points

I was talking about German Nationalism in general.

>It was ultra nationalistic and anti semitic

Yup pure German Traditionalism pic related.

>Swastika came from Paganism

True but Hitler saw it in Catholic churches and was a common symbol of luck.

>again. i said STATISTICS. what percentage of the population became sexually liberated? i guarantee you that one fringe movement cited from wikipedia is not evidence of a nationwide sexual revolution. Germany was still VERY conservative by our standards today.

Under a socialist government with rampant amounts of artistic movement prostituion due to poverty where only the elites still had any money, when modernism was spreading all across Europe? Do I really need to provide statistics for an era that was notorious for this kind of rebellious behavior? Germany was not that conservative during the Weimar Era no, and if you want statistics on exactly how many people were prostitutes and to what state the Germans had become liberated then go look up journalists accounts of Germany and stats.

>>2720240
Are you fucking kidding me the era of snow ball parties, under ground drinking and the modernist had no affect on society as a whole everywhere? The constant revoltuons and violence combined with poverty and industrialist thought did nothing?

>pop history

You're talking out of your ass

>>2720093
>again. i said STATISTICS. what percentage of the population became sexually liberated? i guarantee you that one fringe movement cited from wikipedia is not evidence of a nationwide sexual revolution. Germany was still VERY conservative by our standards today.

Maybe I was hinting at you to ... Read something? Topkek

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/09/24/sexual-decadence-weimar-germany/

Here that's a pretty good aggregate of things you should read and journalists accounts on Weimar Germany that you obviously didn't bother to Google. It was not a fringe movement by any means and if you want stats on it then go fuck yourself because if you're trying to make an appeal to the intellectual majority thought on Weimar , first of all thats a logical fallacy based on a priori assumptions, second of all the majority does not support your narrative anyways.

>>>/reddit/
>>>/pol/
>>>/leftypol/

Go to these if you're going to be intellectually dishonest.

>>2720093
>nope. to use the word "post-identity", the way its tossed around today, and the way you use it, quite clearly implies "the liquidation of cultural heritage" through cultural marxism and racemixing. /pol/ uses it in this manner all the time, and the fact that you're playing dumb tells me your either idiotic or a /pol/fag trying to colonize this board.

Alright I'm just going to make this very clear for you sunshine. Firs of all, I don't care what the colloquial definition of post identity is, I've told you multiple times and this thread multiple times that Marxists used to believe in a post-identity world based on labor and class revolution. Not racemixing, although the Bolsheviks did want to undo the concept of marriage which is why they were ousted by Stalin. Marxists were against sexual excess and especially prostituion.

Just stop with this blatant strawmanning. I don't care what /pol/ says on the matter, I'm not this /pol/ boogeyman you've constructed of me.

>It's not Marxism unless it fits my idiosyncratic definition

You are joking right? Modern marxism is not what Marxism used to he please just an hero

>>>/pol/

>>2720207
>when you talk about restoring culture that is fading and loathing the sexual revolution are familiar tropes of cultural pessimism and anxiety about decay and stagnation; you don't have to say "decay" to understand that.

... So yeah I never said I was against racemixing and you pretty much just went on a meaningless tangent about the Freudian theory of sexual anxiety expressed through conservative view points.

Okay bud whatever you say.

>What did he mean by this

Holy shit
>>>/pol/

Replace "sleep" with "self", and stop being a /pol/tard accusing me of trying to promote fascism as a secret /pol/tard when you repeat their memes and main talking points surrounding the fact that /pol/ is too stupid to understand that there are different forms of communism and collectivism.

>when did i say this? even the smartest people can fall for crude propaganda if you repeat it enough. hitler knew that quite well and wrote about it in mein kampf.

I wonder if Anon will reflect on what this means to him.

>and invented by scientists who grew up in Weimar and Wilhelmine Germany. Nazi education was a joke and they were notorious for turning the universities into campgrounds and ideological training.

Nazi schools were designed to make Germany into an agrarian and self sustaining society, the industrialism was a result of the inevitable war scenario Hitler talks about in Mein Kampf.

>When did I say nazis we're low IQ idiots

When you called them stormfags who blamed Jews and black people for having problem in life. Most of the people who joined the Nazis were a hodgepodge of monarchists, fascists, Strasserists, and German nationalists.

>he didn't. the traditional elites absolutely despised him.

Yet they still joined as did all the others who disagreed with Hitler but supported his general direction anyways.

>This is not the same thing as convincing elites to join Hitler

Kind of is though.

>>2720207
>huh? the nazis won at most like 33 to 35% of the vote in fair weimar elections. in early 1933 they got 44% and that even was with bald violence against the social democrats and the communists and their supporters.

Why is it always the newfags from /pol/ who don't read the thread? I already said that but whatever, it was after the elections when the Nazis got total support due to the Hjalmar Schanct and the economic reforms of the Nazis. They also won the plebescites in Austria at 98% due to this fact.

>>2719808

I said they weren't directly involved (i.e. not triggermen), not uninvolved at all.

Hell, a few Wehrmacht even won Yad Vashem awards for trying to stop the killing of Jews.

>>2720890
We'll try Wehrmact had Jewish soldiers and not everyone followed the anti-Semitism, but the vast majority did.

>>2719681
>Depended on the company, some of them were state owned and some of them weren't
Why did you mean by saying that the capitalists left or were driven out? Not sure who you call 'capitalists'.

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>>2717632
>I'm talking more of the long run. How will the US and especially Europe's government with the migrant crisis look like in the 2030's, 2040's, or 2050's?
only time will tell.

for the us, i highly doubt it could ever happen, as in a complete takeover, "coup," or revolutionizing sweep of the government. despite american furor towards its governments (state and federal), americans are very reluctant to altering how the core of government functions. the constitution allows amendments to prevent this type of radical change from occurring methinks.

>>2720370
Not that guy but veteranstoday is not a reliable source. It's borderline neo-nazi propaganda. Look at the references - metapedia, Institute for Studies of the Jewish Question, Unfinished Victory.

Come on, it's garbage.

>>2721957
Oh, and I recommend Everton to read The Weimar Republic: Crisis of Classical Modernity by Detlev Peukert. He portrays a very different image than pop history.
Even something as innocent as Bauhaus was rejects by the majority of people.