*Blocks your utopian dream*

>>2714302
*wins Nobel price for propaganda*

Psssh… Nothin Personnel… Kid…

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>>2714302

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>>2714302
Stop dreaming and back to work, tovarysh'!

World peace ain't gonna build itself.

>>2714312
>propaganda
you sound like a drumpflet

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>>2714302
*sends you to gulag*

>>2714302
Jared diamond?

>>2714323
No, I just don't believe that people would work very hard and go out of their way to torture their comrades daily for years, because they think it brings communism faster.

Gulags were labor camps, where forced labor was performed for being a political dissident, and the conditions were shit. It wasn't a torture chamber where people were given piss to drink or die of thirst, or asked to carry corpses from point A to B and back, for the benefit of being allowed to eat them, or whatever the fuck urban myth you like.

His book was a good propaganda piece during the Cold War, but in modern days it just poisons the well by making the whole thing seem absurd and allowing revisionists to claim the USSR wasn't all that bad just by mocking and dismissing the Gulag Archipelago as the made up horror story collection it obviously is.
Instead of Lovecraft Lite, we should conduct actual research, and see the actual lengths at which political opposition was used as slave labor, and the conditions they suffered. The real thing.

>>2714302
Thanks for exposing the horrible Bolshevik regime for what it was. Thanks for telling people that the Jewish terrorists killed sixty-six million people in Russia from 1918 to 1957.

>>2714312
>propaganda
Do you know what's propaganda? The Holohoax!

>>2714346
>Thanks for telling people that the Jewish terrorists killed sixty-six million people in Russia from 1918 to 1957.

It was actually six hundred sixty six, if you count all of history of communism in Rus.

>>2714349
>every person who died of old age in the USSR was a victim of the zionists

wew

>>2714326
Fabulous comrade.

>>2714346
>False flag posting

>>2714337
You overestimate Russian capability of filtrating psychos out of their command structure.

Sure gulags weren't torture or extermination facilities, but no that didn't stopped its commanders from torturing or exterminating

>>2714366
Surely you can back this claim with evidence other than a guy writing what a guy said his cousin heard happened 1000 miles east of where they were having dinner.

>>2714349
Were there even that many people in Russia? I think you're exaggerating.

>>2714362
What?

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>>2714371
>During construction of white sea-Baltic canal by a total of 126,000 workers, about 12,000 died, according to the official records
>https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-0-230-11642-9_10
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24480890

>>2714423
>I think you're exaggerating.
I think you are underestimating the evil of Bolshejudeists

>>2714441
>according to the official records
Which records?

>https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-0-230-11642-9_10
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24480890
The number isn't featured in these, nor are they official records.

And further, thats being forced to work under poor conditions, which is in line with what I suggested.
Forced labor for political dissidents, without too much effort to make it easy on them, since the whole country was down the shitter anyway.
Not moral, I don't agree with it, I wish it weren't so, it should be shamed and punished, etc etc. However, also not torturing people for fun with mindless and non-productive, and sometimes even counter-productive tasks, like Solzhenitsyn suggests.

>>2714302
Solzhenitsyn was based. He was right about the nature of Russia being fundamentally different than Europe and Asia, it being a place that had to be judged differently because of how unique of a place it was/is.

His commencement address to Harvard was also pretty good.

>>2714337
Did you miss the part about how he explores the psyche of people with nearly unlimited power over "lesser" people? Those maniacs didn't do it for communism, they did it because they were psychopaths...or in the very least had strong psychopathic tendencies because of their position and power. That's why communism objectively sucks.

>>2714482
I've read his book multiple times, because I keep getting sent back to it to uncover some secret meaning or truth hiding in plain sight. I never do.

To me the book always has been, and continues to be, a mix of facts and myths, written such that the facts support the myths.

>this labor camp existed [1][2][3]
>political opponents were sent there [1][3]
>they were forced to do manual labor [1][3][4]
>the conditions were bad [1][3][4]
>some died from work related incidents, exposure with bad equipment, malnutrition or untreated sickness [3][5]
>they were used as expendable resources [5][6]
>the guards put broomsticks in their asses and lighted them on fire and forced them to run in the snow on four legs until the whole thing burned out [Citation Needed]

And then people use the book as gospel, and cite proof for the more mundane stuff, and with that proof of the practical application of a labor camp (as despicable as it is), they justify the myths of horror.
At least a quarter of the book is Solzhenitsyn making stories of prisoners up, and roleplaying as one, sharing what they would be thinking, according to him. And he is a poet when it comes to making up depression, as well as making up what a cruel inquisitor would enjoy most.
Shame his stories are not objective fact, and just creative writing on his part.

>>2714337
t. bluecap

>>2714337
I bet you believe Jews were put into roller coaster carts and dumped into ovens in an automated mass process in the lolocaust though.

>>2714463
>Which records?
Cтaлинcкиe cтpoйки ГУЛAГa.1930–53», Mocквa, 2005,

>And further, thats being forced to work under poor conditions
10% mortality is above bad conditions

>However, also not torturing people for fun with mindless and non-productive, and sometimes even counter-productive tasks, like Solzhenitsyn suggests.
Read the third and second link, tortures did happened. The GULAGs served both for forced labour and re-education (which can be interpreted in various ways).

>>2714516
I believe jews were used as slave labor after their property was confiscated, and when the Soviets began advancing they were killed to avoid evidence of slave labor becoming public.
Some german officers didn't have the heart for it, so they left them, and the Soviets found actual living jews, as well as unfinished jobs at other camps.

In the end its disgusting practices for the sake of pragmatism, making use of prisoners, and not torturing for fun and LOL SO EVIL.
I don't excuse it, and I am glad the german officials were mostly executed for planning and administering it, but it wasn't for evil's sake. They weren't doing it for fun. Same with the gulags.

>>2714527
>10% mortality is above bad conditions

Look at the construction of Saint Petersburg. Higher mortality rate, and it wasn't a "genocide". It was forcing people to work under bad conditions.
I think you are too used to the air conditioner in your office. Coal miners die to this day. In the 10 yeas my dad was going down the tunnels, 8 people he worked with died.

>>2714540
>Look at the construction of Saint Petersburg.
18th century was a different time, though.

>Coal miners die to this day.
Not in the scale of %, at least If you count deaths directly from labour.

>>2714531
So you believe Jews were being not being exterminated but utilized?

Yeah, modern police often beats people, CIA tortured prisoners, but I'm sure the Soviets never did such things.

>>2714346
>>2714349
The 66million figure is a fucking revisionis strawman. Here is what he actually said:
>According to estimates of energe professor of statistics kurganov, this "comparatively easy" internal repression costs us, from the beginning of the october revolution up to 1959, a total of 66 million lives. We, of course, cannot vouch for his figure but we have none other that is official. And just as soon as the official figure is issued the specialists can make the necessary critical comparisons.

Only retards take that passage literally and only apologists try to condense his book to a meme figure. He repeatedly states that his book is an experiment in literary investigation (it's on the fucking cover for good measure) because (a) it was impossible to accurately quantify the scale of the repression from the pov a few hundred prisoners accounts and (b) the USSR was still covering up most of it so no "official" figures or proper inquiries could be conducted.

>>2714566
émigré, not energe*

Solzhenitsyn was a bitter little kulak who deserved everything he got.

>>2714566
Uh...
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/solzhenitsyn2.jpg

>>2714579
uh...
>>>/x/

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>>2714579
Yes, I will trade that jpeg you posted for the book I have in front of me

>>2714574
He was a decorated artillery captain that questioned the plundering his countrymen were comiting in East Prussia, in letters to a friend.

I hardly think that contemplation deserves a fucking "tenner."

>>2714589
>>2714591
What is your criticism of Professor Kurganov's estimates then?

>>2714589
>>2714591
In case I wasn't clear, I concede that that image might not be totally accurate, that's why I'd like to see what criticism you guys have on Professor Kurganov's estimates.
Also, what do you think of Rudolph Rummel's estimates?

Not that I'm a fan of communism, but isn't he basically an ideologue who made himself a career of telling the west what it wanted to hear about the USSR?

>>271453
>he doesn't believe in automated industrial death roller coasters
Antisemite!

>>2714942
I'm not an official source nor an specialised academic, so it doean't matter what my estimate is. Obviously from what we know now, the figure is much lower than 66million. It also ver much depends on whom and what you include in the repression figure.

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>It's a /leftypol/ vs /pol/ episode

>>2714990
No you're thinking of the AF hominem argument leftists use to criticize Yuri Bezmonov, a completely different Russian.

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>>2714323
>what is reading comprehension

>>2714302

Much tho I love his books, it's really debatable whether he had any real influence at all on the progress of gommunism in Russia. His work was banned in Russia and not really known there, and the existence of samisdat proves hat the Russians themselves were never really taken in by gommie rhetoric anyway.

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>>2714491
>the guards put broomsticks in their asses and lighted them on fire and forced them to run in the snow on four legs until the whole thing burned out [Citation Needed]

But the rest of pic related definitely happened though

>>2715464
I honestly didn't believe Yuri at first, but seeing the shit he said first hand is kind of terrifying, especially in Europe.