Are humans born fundamentally good?

twin studies

"good" is a spook

>>2713605
Evil actually

>>2713605
I think we're born good, part of being able to pass on your genes in a society means that you fit in well and abide by all the rules. Evolutionarily it makes sense that, from a young age, we would have a nice disposition. Even toddlers have been shown to help people in need when they can do so.

"good"
babies learn everything from us with some genetical coding

how far ppl wish to put their heads up their arses
>bring new life to earth
>its absolutely not my responsibilty anymore
>its just nature he he

>>2713605
born fundamentally egoistic aka evil
they gain the ability to be good at bar mitzva

>>2713605
We, as humans, are self-interested cunts. That's not inherently good or bad, but it does lead to bad impulses. It means that if I love you, my impulse is to protect you, but if you make me angry enough, my impulse is to kill you.
We never do evil because it is evil. We do it because it satisfies us on some level. There is no inherent drive to do evil neither to do good.

>>2713661
This is objectively false and sounds like evolutionary psychology bullshit on the level of red pill posting.

>>2713605
Humans are born vaginally.

No, humans are born as a blank canvas unto which surrounding influences paint.

Although a person always has final say in their decisions or actions their influences must be taken into account into understand why they do things.

(Except in extreme cases where an individuals upbringing is so warped that they don't even receive impulses of guilt or other morality driving impulses.)

>>2713688
>>2713692
>>2713697
all bullshit
prehistoric, tribal or evolving humans would never be able to become todays human if they were inherently egoistic only, we know that by forming a group, our interests will be better served and we only have to sacrifice small things

thats whats so great in us
the ability to cooperate

>>2713761
but we gain when we cooperate, right?
you can be totally selfish man living peacefully in a stable society because you understand that gains from social cooperative life are best for you

>>2713775
not quite
you had to play by the rules, even today you do
i mean you know youd like to ride a ferrari, but you know what the law says about private property

chimps would try to beat eachother up for something, they live in a group but they are ultimately selfish

we form a community, others are only a mass of individuals

>>2713789
The only reason no one steals Ferraris is because theyd go to jail for it, not because of some golden rule bullshit.

>>2713789
>you know what the law says about private property
and you know that would be unwise and bad for you if you steal a ferrari because you can lose something (like money, time in jail or good conscience
it's simple math

>>2713795
you are retarded
but its okay, in the animal world id drown you in the river and take whats yours but since we are humans ill spare your shitty life

>>2713813
and when you get drafted you could lose your life yet ppl are willingly sign up to be a soldier, next

>>2713821
*tips fedora*
I'd trade goods with you and then turn right around and raid the shit out of your camp, kill all the males, enslave the females, kill all the infants and children who would slow us down, and take everything you own.

>>2713824
they sign up because:
1. they take the risk, nowadays you can gain much if you serve in army (respect, money). That worked well in history too (like for Caesar's veterans). They just believe they will survive. That's still math.
2. They believe their sacrifice will perpetuate society, and with it their families. These are genes at work - some carriers of our genes may die but the gene pool will live on. Ever heard of Dawkins before?
3. The same as above, but to perpetuate society's culture. Just exchance genes for memes. I know that Internet knows memes to be silly images and jokes, but memes fulfill the same role as genes in our minds. So they are also egoistical.

>>2713853
Its mostly money and to avoid punishment. There have been very few times where people have been willing to die for some stupid shit like culture or muh genes. The vast majority of wars were not about annihilating a populace but to seize land or wealth or to secure a border.

>>2713853
>society

yea we have that, it doesnt work with only selfishness
thanks for proving my point

>>2713849
Doesn't work, since his camp is a community while your group is a pack of hyenas that can't turn the back on each other. Also:
>not enslaving the children
Absolute fucking pleb

>>2713965
Are you telling me we wouldnt work together to get a ton of loot and some QTs to rape repeatedly? Maybe in the long term such a band will crumble, but as long as theres swag a plenty, we'd happily work together. Once the swag runs dry, throats are gonna get cut, but theres always dumb young guys out there who can take their place.
Also the children cant work or walk very far and the mothers would try to help them out and slow us all down. Id kill every kid below 10 and keep the older ones to assimilate into our band.

Good as in free from sin or harmful actions?
I'd like to think so.

>>2713605
They're born hopeless and with a white slate.
There are elements of morality in the genes that can be activated by environment - mainly social interaction and survival instincts to harm and kill that can again be triggered by emotional states or environment.

good to people we know, but bad to people in general

Humans are born fundamentally human

humans are born a blank canvas which is then painted on by the people within their social groups and society

File: Caesar.jpg (125KB, 449x640px) Image search: [Google]

125KB, 449x640px

>>2713705

>>2713775
Part of cooperation is reputation. Your selfish acts won't look good in the long run so people are less likely to cooperate with you in the future because of your reputation.

>>2713605
Humans are humans, that's it. They are what they are raised to be.

Also, I find man being inherently evil a logical fallacy. If something is inherently evil/bad , its concept of good/bad can't be considered "good" either. So if man says he is inherently bad, it's not valid, since if he was, he would not be able to discern true good from evil. An evil person's idea of evil is probably not what a good entity would consider evil and vice versa. So at this step man is either inherently human and the good-evil scale is simply retarded or he is inherently good - him being inherently evil would destroy the whole concept of good vs. evil. And thus an objective concept of man being good becomes meaningless, too. So what we are left is is that humans are born human and that's it.

I know I expressed myslef terribly but I couldn't do better right now. I hope you get where I'm coming from.

>>2713605
Evil is the biggest lie

No human is evil. Evil does not exist. What people call "evil" is just hatred, born out of fear and ignorance, and seen from an equally ignorant and fearful perspective.

So no, humans are not born evil, not they become evil at any point in their lives

>>2713605
no, humans are morally irrelevant until we decide they are. that is why we can abort them

>>2715719
Pol Pot was pretty evil.
You could argue that raping and murdering someone is also evil. Doing it a lot aka serial killers could make someone evil.