Why is it so hard to find a religion you genuinely can believe in?

Because they aren't true.

>>2710963
Common sense and valuing what's likely to be true rather than what's instinctively intuitive or what makes you feel good.

>>2710963
Because there are so many, and no religious person can logically justify why their religion is the one true one.

Most of them require you to assume an axiom that is hard to justify.

>>2710963
The answer is Calvinism, my friend
Its ">I'm right", the religion

>finding beliefs
If you still believe in applying this "show me the visual proof or it doesn't exist" shit. Then you will never believe in it.

It's hard to convince a rational, educated, 100 IQ or higher adult that paranormal bullshit exists

You need to brainwash kids or low IQ individuals to believe in magic

From there it's about turning it into a tradition people maintain for no other reason than tradition

>>2711052
Nice strawman. OP never said he would only believe with evidence, much less "visible" evidence, which is an extremely narrow class of evidence that no rational person would use as a criterion for truth.

>>2711052
Cringe

>>2711080
>OP never said
OP never said anything, thus his mind is void and lacks all kind of beliefs.

Fuck off.

>>2711052
Cringed.

Hard.

LARPers are more autistic than fedoras.

>>2711111
>>2711128
No arguments? As expected.

>>2711112
...

>>2711147
You had no argument

>>2710977
>no religious person can logically justify why their religion is the one true one.
you're looking at religion entirely wrong. noone can justify emotions either, but

>>2710963
User Error

I've considered myself agnostic for a long time, but I find Vajrayana compelling in a way no other religion has.

>>2711205
>make a claim
>lol cringe xD
>not an argum-
>YOU had NO argumENT! So fuck off.
Nope. Go hang yourself.

>>2711353
Not an argument lad

Lots of unproven assertions though

>>2711070
Exactly, I'm also just an atheist teenager who worships at the alter of reason and logic. In fact, worshipping at this alter induces a state of euphoria, because, I am enlightened by my own intelligence.

>>2711257
Why Vajrayana, specifically?

I'm in a similar boat, though Vaj (there must be a proper way to abbreviate that), just from my limited research, the whole tantra thing makes it seem so much less grounded in terms of applicable real-world philosophy than the rest of Buddhism. Again, I don't shit, really, so that may be way off the mark on that one. Or I could be lost just from trying to link Buddhism to the perceived world to begin with.

If enough belief systems you have experienced and held are doubted or found to be flawed, then you start to think that all belief systems are flawed and thus not worth trying to believe in or hold.

>>2711368
>it's hard to find a religion
>You just have to-
>not an ARgument!
Nope. Sorry, you got it wrong, sweetie.

>>2710973
fpbp

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We don't pray because we believe but so that we may believe.

Because religion is very personal and requires years of intense reflection.

You're certainly not going to be religious because some NEET /pol/ack typed DOOS FAULT and called you a hat on an internet forum

>>2710973
/thread

Isn't there a branch of Christianity that cuts out the old testament? Leaving just the Gospel itself?

That's a pretty good religion.

>>2713356
This is what Marcion did in the 2nd century, one gospel and some of Paul's letters.

>>2711043

or you weren't elected the religion

>>2711111
noice

>>2713356
>>2713373
Marcion was also declared a heretic, is thought of as an anti-Semitic proto-Nazi for not sucking Jewish theological cock, and there are no actual groups that follow Marcion-esque doctrine.

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>>2710973
>you need evidence to have a belief
why are atheists heads so far up their own asses

>>2713684
"Remember also that faith, (an unreasonable assertion of complete conviction which is not based on reason and is defended against all reason) —is the most dishonest position it is possible to have. Any belief which requires faith should be rejected for that reason." -Aron Ra

>>2710963
>Why is it so hard to find a religion you genuinely can believe in?

Investigate gnosticism, the belief that there's a creator "god" aided by other archons whom are evil trapping us inside this world.

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>>2713684
>adhering to slave morality when its outdated
Shiggy diggy doo

>look boy humans are completely rational and we act every second using rationalization
Literal trash-argument.
>>2713719
>rmplying Jesus actually promoted the christianity of nowadays
Jesus was a man who did what he pleased because he could. Most ev. books are corrupted by paulo's disciples and later kangdomz.

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>>2713714
investigate 3 / 11

>>2713731
??? original Christianity was literally as slave as it gets. Loser mentality philosophies pls go.

>>2713731
>follows old folklore created by thousands of years old niggas to control others
>thinks he has an argument
>thinks jesus existed
lol

>>2713741
>no U
>>2713745
>I came here to give you guys electricity tech
>why would you do that?
>for my interests
>ooga booga destroy technology!
Literally ebin.

No arguments in this thread.

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>>2713772
Is this really how religious people argue?

>>2710963
BUT I've been confident in my Catholicism since I converted at 14 anon

>>2710963
Because it develops in you, you can't just "find", or choose it.

>>2713656
Too bad.
Jesus's message is very brilliant.
I am sure he would attract more followers if he lost the contradictions and archaic tales of the old testament.

Meditate and look into Buddhism
The nice thing about it is that there's no dogma and the essential core teachings are pretty much universally recognized as the only necessary parts of Buddhism. Zen is like a stripped down Buddhism to its bare essentials, without all the mystery and storytelling, and it's completely legitimate

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>>2711234
Emotions are some magical spirit shit. Read about the chemical basis of them. Everything that goes on in your head has a deterministic physiological cause.

>>2711377
I mean if you strip away his angsty and condescending tone he isn't entirely wrong.

I know that feel bro. Trying to get back to my catholic roots but whenever i hear about Jesus and Mary i can't help think Mary was just being a dirty whore and fucked someone behind Joseph's back.

>>2713684
>you need evidence to have a belief
>why are atheists heads so far up their own asses

Imagine this:
>you're hungry
>literally starving
>I give you a stone and say: "eat this"
>you say: "but this is not food!"
>"Yes, it is. Just believe in it! Have faith!"
>you eat it (or not, doesn't even matter), and you die

Or:
>you're hungry
>literally starving
>I say to you: "Have faith and you'll hunger will go away!"
>you die

3rd one
>I believe in a god, you believe in nothing
>you ask me how to follow my god
>I say to you "Say this prayer and walk through that over that precipice!"
>"But I surely will fall down!"
>"Nah. Have faith, and my god will help you"
>"C-could you give me some kind of evidence? I mean I don't want to fall down and die"
>and so I quote the great apeposter prophet, the Mighty Anon: "You do not need evidence to have a belief"
>so you try to walk over the precipice
>you die

And so on.

>>2713787
Anon, you've got it wrong.

14 is the age when you're supposed to be really shitty about the intellectual superiority of atheism and all that crap.

Now when are you going to get that out of your system?

>>2714978
Nah

Teenagers are just starting to become capable of thinking for themselves and naturally realize the supernatural doesn't exist. Assuming they haven't had religion drilled into them from a young age.

Every single attempt to prove the existence of supernatural activity has ended with complete and utter failure.

It's not a coincidence that high IQ nations have more atheists while low IQ nations are noticeably the most devoutly religious.

>>2713684
Gimme a call when you use faith for literally any position besides a theological one.

I like this quote from Eckhart Tolle:
“All religions are equally false and equally true, depending on how you use them. You can use them in the service of the ego, or you can use them in the service of the Truth. If you believe only your religion is the Truth, you are using it in the service of the ego. Used in such a way, religion becomes ideology and creates an illusory sense of superiority as well as division and conflict between people. In the service of the Truth, religious teachings represent signposts or maps left behind by awakened humans to assist you in spiritual awakening, that is to say, in becoming free of identification with form.”

I've always believe that my religion is love and humanity.

P.S: I was a Muslim.

>>2714401

Have you considered some of us have seen evidence?

>y-you were hallucinating!

And so on

>>2710963
You have to be crazy to believe in religions anon. No this is not atheist talk I have tried to believe in God and it doesnt work because Im not nuts Im too intune with the reality.

>>2715238
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFer9TeV5gU

Were you raised into a religion?
No?
Then odds are you won't buy into any of it, because they didn't get you while you were young.

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>>2715257
>Im too intune with the reality

Find a good philosophy instead. Requires none of the retarded buy-in of abrahamic religions. Most religion has too much verifiably false baggage that is basically required to adhere to the faith, but at least if you adopted something like stoicism you could easily ditch their weird ideas of physics and still practice it pretty well.

Because you're a jaded cunt who's unable to trust anything or anyone.

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>tfw believe in God but cannot bring self to join a religion

>>2710963
It's actually not all that difficult if you're not a brainlet.

>>2715277
No anon Im not a instant gratification monkey so I dont care about heaven thus I have no drive to be christian at all.

Church is boring its just regurgitation of aesops everyone listening will forget exists as soon as they hit their car.

The way I see it only altruistic lunatics can be christian.

>>2715296
I know that feel

>>2713922
>Read about the chemical basis of them.
>Everything that goes on in your head has a deterministic physiological cause.

If you're just a chemical reaction, why exactly is it unethical to cut off your oxygen supply in order to disrupt your internal reduction oxidation reactions, but not unethical to cut off the oxygen supply to disrupt reduction oxidation reactions in other contexts, like camp-fires or candles?

It's the exact same reaction,it's just chemistry, and I have yet to encounter a materialist that can give me an answer.

>>2714401
In all the scenarios you provided, death is inevitable regardless of the individuals lack of faith so I'm not really seeing your point.
The starving man dies whether or not he eats the rock.

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>>2715341

>>2715353
You're still operating under the (assumingly in your case) theological assumption of objective morality. Neither of those actions are inherently wrong on the basis of a universal or divine lawmaker or anything of the sort. Ethics and morality are human constructions based off of our own desires and necessities. We both agree that the former scenario is wrong because we understand the consequences and we feel empathy for one another. If you actually believe that you need a deity to tell you that its wrong in that situation to kill someone I can't help you.

>>2715353
Morals are human constructs thus subjective anon, a cat doesnt see taking food away from another cat as "stealing, nor does the cat who's food was taken away see that as anything other than annoyance instead of a bad thing. Only highly intelligent social creatures have morality, and morals are really just emotional inbitions to keep your simian impulses in check, after all morals are the only reason you arent raping a woman right now or killing someone in the street for fun. There are millions of humans who can do that and morals are alien to their brain we call these humans psychopaths.

>>2715402
>We both agree that the former scenario is wrong because we understand the consequences and we feel empathy for one another.
and we should not reduce these feelings of "empathy" to mere meaningless chemical reactions as well why exactly?

>>2715412
I'm still not seeing an explanation as to why these chemical reactions matter so much more than other chemical reactions.

Here's what I'm getting at. If a human is just a sack of chemical reactions, and a subset of chemical reactions within those induce behavior that inhibits interfering with the chemical reactions within other chemical sacks, what exactly is the argument that stands in the way of altering that subset of chemical reactions so that they no longer induce inhibition of on interference?

I don't understand why you people feel comfortable reducing humans to simple processes in order to promote social change, yet fall back on those exact same chemical processes whose meaningfulness you just deconstructed in order to justify not pursuing social changes that make you squeamish despite their being logically consistent with your starting premise.

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>>2715535
The "meaning" to all of these reactions can be derived from a mixture of survivability and positive and negative feedback on an individualistic scale if you want to be purposefully reductionist, and on a societal scale, from some variation or form of what we now call the social contract. Also I'm not sure exactly what social changes you're refering to.

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It's easy, OP, the religions that are most aligned with the mystical truths of oneness, infinity, and universal consciousness are the correct religions! Oh wait... anon, you have had a mystical experience, right?

>>2715309

I'm not christian either, so?
Just because you don't believe an obvious lie doesn't mean you are "in tune with reality" which you are not.

All those deluded christians had their mystic experiences by hands of a false god.

>>2711377

Gross

>>2711112

Well now get a load of this 15 year olds inability to grasp cause and effect

>>2715247
>Seen some evidence
>

Is this evidence verifiable? If you can provide verifiable evidence for a miracle, then that would change the world.

As of yet, there is no verifiable evidence for a miracle occurring.

>>2715535
I hope you one day come to understand that humans aren't that holy or special as you think we are, and we are in fact apes.

>>2713786
>no U
>wew you have no arg-
>LOL! Do religious people argue like this?
Not an argument, sweetie.

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>>2711377

>>2715926
Why are you shit posting so hard in the face of discussion.

Why can't you defend your beliefs? Is it because they have no basis in reality and the easiest way to protect your delusions is to dismiss all criticisms of them?
lol

>>2715592
Buddy you still don't fucking get it.
You're justifying ascribing value to the chemical reaction by citing the exact same chemical reaction. How is that any different than a Christian citing the Bible to justify his Christian morals based on the fact it's in the Bible? If there's no objective value to these chemical processes then why pretend that they have anything meaningful to offer us. If I'm hallucinating and see a pink elephant in the corner and I justify my claim that this pink elephant exists by citing the chemical reaction that make me see a pink elephant would you accept that as an adequate argument to claim there's a pink elephant in the corner?

>Also I'm not sure exactly what social changes you're refering to.
The invalidation of traditional values under the assumption that scientific materialism has made them obsolete.

>>2715857
I hope one day you come to realize what it means for humans to be just apes.

>>2716012
>How is that any different than a Christian citing the Bible to justify his Christian morals based on the fact it's in the Bible?

I'm gonna sotp you right there, one is based on objective verifiable testable fact, and the other is based around old folklore that you follow in fear of a giant super eternal ghostman that'll torture you forever if you work on sunday or don't kill your sister for getting raped

>>2715958
>not an argument sweetie
>You can't defend your beliefs because they have no real basis, and you dismiss all criticism.
Lmao, "you are religious" is criticizing someone's belief?
Rational thinking can lead you to the ultimate question. Does God exist? If you think he doesn't. And you avoid all kind of question about why do you think that, then you can deceive yourself thinking you are atheist. If you don't avoid them. You can call yourself agnostic. The rest is up to you, honey *drops mic*

>>2715728
>lol you 15yo
Not an argument, sweetie.

>>2716046
God doesn't exist, you're literally saying nothing. There's nothing to avoid.

Any rational thinking person can see some ridiculous claim like a god and think "mmm no evidence? bullshit" like normal people do everyday.

Do you even know what atheism is? Literally without theism? There are not agnostic people, only atheists and theists.

>>2716064
>x is y fuck you
>ad populum
>z is @ believe me
mmm no, sweetie. Come on it's 2017!

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>>2716081
Exactly, keep your pathetic fairy tales in the fiction section fampai

>>2716095
>They are fairy tales believe me
10^4 words, and I can't still find a single argument, bud. You tried at least.
>start using pic
wew lad triggered much? *sips tea*

>>2716106
not an argument isn't an argument desu

>>2716012
No I'm saying we all derive our morality ultimately from physiological phenomena whether you like that or not, just as the authors of the bible did when they wrote "God's" laws and commandments. The difference is that christians will argue that the morality outlined in their texts is objective and divinely inspired. Also Im asking what traditional values you are refering to in particular. Just because I'm not theistic doesn't mean I'm super left wing. As far as hallucinations go, the physical existence of your pink elephant can be verifibly proven false outside of the aforementioned molecular interactions in your brain. That has nothing to do with morality or ethics which I already said are a human constructs and therefore obviously not physical entities.

>>2716114
>Humans don't act completely by rational thinking
>but you follow someone else's past interests!
>That's not an argument against its valu-
>Not an argument!
Nope. *drops mic*

>>2716163
What does human not acting completely rational have to do with believing something completely and utterly false?

That has been proven multiple times by many different people to be completely untrue?

>>2713698
you dont use a parenthesis and a dash. It is one or the other. learn some grammar bitch nigga

>>2716173
>faith is irrational and bad! t. Amon Wuz Ra
>Humans don't act by pure rational thinking
...
>What does is have to do with [insert claim here]?
>x doesn't exist
Are you underage by any chance? Also you keep pushing the same claims without explaining anything, while my claims were against someone else's argument. My point has already been explained pretty well, their arguments against the possible existence of God aren't valid, yet you try to demonstrate that God doesn't exist, where is your proof?

If you close your eyes, do you believe the light has ceased to exist? Or do you still believe there is light, and you became blind? The proof demanding method is required by science just to avoid non-practical pov-s. Yet they are pretty much used by you and everyone, and a great example is the induction method or the holistic analogy argument.

Go back.

>>2716204
>If you close your eyes, do you believe the light has ceased to exist? Or do you still believe there is light, and you became blind?

Wow, you just gave me a hearty laugh. You're one of those aren't you. You haven't heard of Hitchen's Razor have you? It's as follows: Positive claims require positive evidence. What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

Basically fampai I can dismiss entirely whatever bullshit you say if you don't have the evidence to back it up, I don't have to "disprove" God if there is no evidence he exists. Your point is absolutely retarded, you can't prove a negative. Absolutely buffoonery.

>Positive claims require positive evidence. What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
Absolutely stupid argument. I know light exists because I can verify it outside my own perception and can test and prove its existence.

>>2716027
>one is based on objective verifiable testable fact
WRONG.
It's based on the product of chemical reactions that allegedly ascribe meaning to themselves. Your sense of "fact" is entirely at the mercy of those chemical reactions which is what makes mental illness as terrifying as it is.

>inb4 you start bitching about solipsism
>inb4 we should be hypocrites and inconsistently apply our materialist reasoning in order to avoid sinking into solipsism because it provides "useful" results
Religious traditions were pretty "useful" mechanisms of maintaining social cohesion yet that didn't stop your kind from undermining them in pursuit of materialist philosophy. You fuckers opened this can of worms called solipsism I see no reason why we should feel obligated to clean up your mess or pretend the worms aren't there.

>>2716228
>religion
>good for society
>you're on a fucking history board
You're either clinically retarded or just a downright dishonest person.

Even in modern day we have facts and statistics showing that religion does absolutely no good for society and areas that are less religious are far better off. And my dude, I'm sure you agree the dark ages were the fucking tip top era of social cohesion.

>>2715247
>you don't need evidence to hold a belief
is responded with
>faith in evidenceless claims is a retarded way of going about a potentially dangerous life
to which you respond with
>but I have evidence
Are you lost??

>>2716155
>The difference is that christians will argue that the morality outlined in their texts is objective and divinely inspired.
Which is a good thing as subjective morality is worthless.

>As far as hallucinations go, the physical existence of your pink elephant can be verifibly proven false outside of the aforementioned molecular interactions in your brain.
As can the claim that a chemical reaction called "human" possesses unique qualities that puts it in a category separate from other chemical reactions, making it deserving of special consideration. Which is my point, just because a chemical reaction makes us do something does not mean that action has any inherent value. Therefore using the chemical byproduct we call "empathy" as a source of justification to claim that the human chemical reaction deserves special consideration is pretty silly.

>>2716226
>logic laws are infalible
Yet they aren't fit to the real impredictable world, we use induction and analoguies.
>you have to prove it
What should I prove?
>I prove that light exists without rational thinking but empirical methods
You won't find empirical evidence of the absence nor the existence of God.

Keep pushing the "you have to prove it" argument, tho.

You are just repeating what I said before, you avoid at all costs the question, "does God exist?" lmao

>>2716245
facts and statistics can't create a value system.

>>2716245
*tips fedora*
Christianity created the organ works of Bach.
Atheism created Sex Junk.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wllc5gSc-N8

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>>2716257
> you avoid at all costs the question, "does God exist"
>>2716064

>>2716265
>I need a book to tell me what's right and wrong!

>>2716278
>Does God exist?
>No.
>Why?
>There is no argument because Mr.GoldbergSchultzdegger said I shouldn't tell you.
Literally ebin.
>>2716278
>morals are innate
Buahahahahhahah

Have you read A single book at all? lmao

>>2716278
its not just right and wrong, it can't give you any value system and thus facts and statistics really don't have any value either. Without a value system you can't get a belief system, and thus society pretty much ceases to function as there is no reason for anyone to do anything

>>2716278
>humans are physically incapable of doing something as simple as walking a straight line without an external reference point
>somehow humans are able to determine right from wrong without an external reference point though
HILARIOUS

>>2716256
Unfortunately for you the whole world has only ever operated on subjective morality so it can't be that useless. Also if you were actually reading what I wrote, I started off saying that there was not any inherent value in one or the other of your two actions. Empathy is just a useful tool to people that allows us to live happier safer lives. Both adjectives that as well have no inherent value but just like everything else, we assign value to based upon our own experiences and knowledge.

>>2716291
Here, I'll be you for a moment. I literally created the entire universe but I am not a God. I am what I define myself to be and it is not a God. Prove me wrong.
Even you, I'm sure can see how retarded it would be to prove a negative.
>>2716291
>>2716295
>>2716298
Considering Humans lived for many many thousands of years without the abrahamic religions influence it seems pretty clear that as a social species morals develop automatically through empathy.
>>2715412
Also described it here for you.

Not to mention any civilizaiton living under "religious" value systems have historically and predictably been shit. Another quote for you bruh.

>[Religion] is predominantly evil and entirely deceitful, has only negative correlations statistically, and is frequently maliciously abusive physically mentally and emotionally. It has historically always obstructed education and retarded or impeded progress in whatever application it has ever touched. All the worst atrocities in history were done in the name of religion and our greatest advances were made in opposition to it. I’m an antitheist because religion is factually historically ethically and morally wrong.
Aron Ra again.

>>2716347
>absence of evidence is evidence of absence
You keep tripping with the same stone.
>abrahamic religions were the unique cultures that had moral culture imperatives
>comparing tribes, to cities and nations
>just be empathic
Lmao, you just went full autistic.
>faith is bad and irrational t. Amon Wuz Ra
How is this an argument, lmao. Humans don't act by rational thinking every second.

>>2716347
>without the abrahamic religions influence
>abrahamic religions
>not religions in general
Nice goalpost shift fedoralord.

>>2716347
again what is the alternative. Facts and statistics cannot provide a value, belief, or moral system for society. Even the notion of rights stems from the idea that human beings are inherently valuable which is something that, for the most part, comes from religion. That is something that is also seen cross culturally via multiple religions and is not limited just to abrahamic religion. Even if specific scripture may limit that value to only those in their community or followers, they still have the notion of inherent value in humans.

>>2716386
>>2716396
Show me a good thing that came from religion.
>>2716400
>inherent value in humans
No. This did not come from religion this is because we're social animals. If you want to talk religion and the value of human life, you must know that woman historically had no value under religion, and were more property right?

>>2716454
see
>>2716274

>>2716454
>you must know that woman historically had no value under religion, and were more property right?
That's not a bug, it's a feature.

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>>2710963
Because no one understands their true nature

>>2710963
Because we're adults and "Belief" doesn't hold up to scrutiny. And we all face the same uncertainty no matter how long assholes try to convince each other otherwise.

>>2716336
>Unfortunately for you the whole world has only ever operated on subjective morality so it can't be that useless.
"The whole world" is irrelevant as we don't live in "the whole world", we live in our individual societies, nations, and civilizations which operate under objective systems of morality and do not adhere to the idea that everyone's individual opinions of right and wrong are equally valid.

>empathy is a useful tool
"Usefulness" cannot be determined in an objective fashion through materialist philosophy any more so than morality can.

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They're spooks.

A bunch of religions are kinda alright if you ignore all the rituals and spiritual bullshit. I just like to take the philosophically neat parts and disregard the rest.

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Two words: Holy Spirit

>>2710963
religion is about faith, not reason
many choose reason and reject faith entirely

>>2716675
>and do not adhere to the idea that everyone's individual opinions of right and wrong are equally valid.

That's not what subjective morality is and no one is saying that.

>"Usefulness" cannot be determined in an objective fashion through materialist philosophy any more so than morality can.

I also didn't say usefulness can be determined objectively either. I'm sorry you can't understand abstract descriptors.

>>2715247
Wut

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Because discordianism hasnt found you yet.

>>2711112
bit of a dumb fuck aren't we

>>2711147
>1you don't need evidence
>2wow that's cringe
>1where's your evidence prove me wrong?
fucking kek

>>2710963
That is inherently not a question anyone but you can answer.

>>2716454
Not praising religion, keep moving goalposts.

You can't literally answer "does God exist" with a solid explanations of your reason.

I think it's fairly easy to realise God exists but finding a religion that satisfies you spiritually and socially is the main hurdle desu

>>2717260
>no! OP didn't said that, thus he automatically lacks that!
>wew, can't you see the hole of your arg-
>fucking kek! lollolololol
>>2717260
>lmao u dumb :)

Not
an
Argument.

>>2717563
>>2717555
God doesn't exist. It's a ridiculous claim supported by no evidence that doesn't agree with reality, It's really as simple as that.

>>2717903
>absence of evidence is evidence of absence
>it doesn't exist
>why do you think th-
>I can't answer you
Well, umm wrong answer sweetie.

>>2713684
None of the available arbitrary fairy tales explaining the universe are convincing. In fact, they're pretty ridiculous. What convinced you to believe the man-made stories? And by any chance is your religion the same as your parents/community?

>>2717926
Logical fallacy kiddo, stop arguing from ignorance.

The non-existence of God is perfectly consistent with no one having been able to prove God’s non-existence.

Try harder.

>>2717928
>absence of God is proven
That's not true, honey.

>I don't have to prove its absence YOU have to prove it
And who says that? Heggerstein and his "logic" book?
>wake up
>everything is dark
>try to switch on the lights
>doesn't work
>uses induction, analogy and empirical observations instead of rational deduction
Sorry sweetie, your medieval methods of "logic" deduction are no use on the real world.

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>>2717939
>absence of God is proven
Who said this? How absolutely terrible you are at debates.
>I don't have to prove its absence YOU have to prove it
I don't, see it doesn't matter what you think, there's an objective reality beyond what you believe, and a "God" does not line up with it. In the same way you can dismiss my claim of owning five hundred battle-ready unicorns, I can dismiss the claim of God.

You do understand the default position is not a belief in a God right? That the entire concept is man-made and is a ridiculous claim, that can be dismissed without evidence?

Geez you're bad at this senpai,

>>2717939
>uses induction, analogy and empirical observations instead of rational deduction
I'm glad that you demolish your own argument in your own words because using rational deduction we can easily come to the conclusion that a God or creator is fantasy, based on the facts and objective truths we know about reality.

I just wanted to point this out to show how bad you are at defending your own point, you really seem like an absolute nutcase who thinks fairies and magic and unicorns exist, and that proving a negative is something your debate opponent has to do.

>>2717955
>the default concept is negating x!
Nope. The default stance of one claim is the ignorance and accepting the incapacity of proving it and claiming anything until you can prove it wrong or right.

Yet you still affirm that God doesn't exist.

>starts using pics
kek, thanks for the laugh

>>2717960
>god is unreal because i proved its absence
Yet another big facepalm. That's not even logical, lmao.

>you think x exist!
Aaaand, another falseflag. Did you reply to my post without knowing who I was replying to?

Typical atheist.

>>2717965
Wow how cowardly, skirting and ducking around the point. So before we go any further, do you think I have 500 battle ready unicorns?

>I haven't seen an invisible being that has his own intellect and chooses whom he reveals himself to, while not giving a crap about others

You don't say.

I'm sure you also haven't got evidence for demons, whom are invisible creatures with their own intelligence (superior than human, but not to the point of a divinity) that have their ways over science either.

I mean, do you expect that beings that are smarter than you are somehow going to be retarded for a day for them to fall into your hands so you can behave like a retard (which is what all skeptics do) with them? No.

>>2717981
>demons
>existing
y'all niggas wild I swear,

>>2717989

Yes, they exist, as we have an insane number of reports of paranormal phenomena and of demon posession even.

>>2717967
>around the point
>do you believe i have mlp shit
Judging by your own lack of self-awareness, I bet you do.

Yet you can't even support your own arguments. And now you accuse me of moving the main argument. Go back.

>>2717996
There is also an insane number of unicorn and fairy reports, all other types of mythical beings that don't exist. But no proof for these things either.

Hmm.

I mean shit senpai, do you know how rich a person would be if they could prove any of these things existed?

>>2713192
cringe

>>2718001
Thanks for proving my point.

>>2717999
>There is also an insane number of unicorn

No, there isn't.

>fairy

spirits of any kind still fall into the category of paranormal reports.

>don't exist

>there's no proof

Nigger, people literally have seen others floating, and so on.

>they were deluded

Maybe it is time to pull your head out of your ass and admit you were the deluded one.

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>>2717998
>HE LITERALLY DODGED THE ARGUMENT
You are such an embarrassment, you are intellectually dishonest in the face of truth and fact that I legitimately find it funny. But since you love going in a circle I'm gonna demolish your last response one final time.

>The default stance of one claim is the ignorance and accepting the incapacity of proving it and claiming anything until you can prove it wrong or right.

>>2717960
>there's an objective reality beyond what you believe, and a "God" does not line up with it. In the same way you can dismiss my claim of owning five hundred battle-ready unicorns, I can dismiss the claim of God.

>Aaaand, another falseflag. Did you reply to my post without knowing who I was replying to?
So you don't believe I have 500 battle ready Unicorns? Prove they don't exist,

>>2718005
>fairies exists
Holy shit bruh. Damn son.
>I believe things that can't be proven or tested because someone said so!
Holy fuck

>>2718011
>I believe things that I've seen myself

Yes

And like me, many others.

>>2718015
That's a delusion senpai, let me ask you, under what circumstance did you "see" these..demons.

>>2718011
>doged the argument
>link my claim
>feels the need to ask
Can you explain your point?
My point literally answer every question you could make.

>I don't believe something because I never saw it.
>k, but others have seen many things already
>I need special super secret laboratory proof that cannot be gotten because we don't have the science for it
>Oh, so you are merely playing dumb?
>yes, and I do so with an aura of science :D

>>2718018
Yes, it is a delusion, people throughout all of history keep seeing things, but we have to conform to your worldview that there's nothing until you yourself see it.

See.

>>2718021

>>2718021
>>2718022
>believe something because I said so
>can you prove it
>...well no
>can you repeat it
>uh...
>do you have anything valid
>well me and my buds saw it to-wtf are these questions just believe me wtf

Depends on what you mean by religion.

Anyone with a level headed rational mind will have doubts about religion easily, as they have doubts about many things in life.

A higher rational mind will doubt more and won't take "lol god did it" as an answer and pursue the knowledge to its end.

Simply a matter of inquiry.

>>2718024
>believe a murder happened
>can you prove it
>...well no
>can you repeat it
>uh...
>do you have anything valid
>well me and my buds saw it
Keep deluding yourself.

>>2718024
>>can you prove it

>I request that you hunt a ghost with your bare hands

You don't say.

How is it incredible that a repeating report throughout all of mankind history may be true?

>>2718027
>can you prove it
yeah there's a body
or a weapon
or blood at the scene
or a missing person
etc.
That was fucking dumb.

>>2718028
Right? It's amazing the wild baseless shit people delude themselves into believing.

>>2718031

Such as atheism.

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>>2718031
>or a missing person

mfw, murder never existed until humans were numbered and classified by the state.

>prove to me that Ugh Brotogh existed!

>>2718031
>yeah there is a body
>umm we found no body
>then all of those (((spectators))) are lying, suspend the investigation
Go ahead.

>>2718004
CRINGE
R
I
N
G
E

>>2718042
Thanks for the laugh,

and the point proven ;-)

>>2718039
>>2718038
No see what happens then is that, you know...it gets investigated? How dumb are you? They look for "evidence" that a murder took place, you know facts and verifiable claims that exist in reality that is objective and in no way subjective?

wew lads

>>2718043
>:-)
Cringed. Hard.

>>2718045
>it gets investigated?

Stonefist, there's a missing person
-How do we know that person existed?
-You're always right, Stonefist, tell chief warhammer that we're done here, nothing happened.

>and the tribe went to shit

>>2718046
>[cringe]x10
Nice to see you still can provide any argument, and can't help but keep proving my point. :-)

>>2718047
So did the person not have a home or belongings which belong to no other? Or perhaps family that has >evidence< of his existence?
wew

>>2718049
see >>2718046

>>2718019
So you don't want to explain your point and fail to deduce the answer from my claim. As expected from a Dawkins fan.

>>2718052
>So did the person not have a home or belongings which belong to no other?

In the stone age? hardly

See, it's what happens when science is not up to par and we have a retard trying to do science.

>>2718064
>hardly
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2241675

>>2718070

>no, let me look for more things that may ruin an example where science is not up to date with the affair in question which is what you're trying to convey so I can keep playing dumb and dodging the issue.

>>2718049
Now somewhat serious because you want it so much(I was just memeing because you posted sweetie), Russel's epic teapot, if there is no evidence for something and there is no reasonable path to evidence for or against it, it doesn't discredit its existence completely but it does put it on the level of the teapot.

>>2718084
>it doesn't discredit its existence
That's reasonable
>it becomes x!
What an arbitrary statement. I disagree.*drops mic*

>>2718091
I see you have fully ascended to your meme form, I tip my fedora to your mitre my friend
Also that's not an arbitrary statement, that's the entire point of the teapot, an argument of yours is actually required here

>>2718098.
>the point which seems reasonable.
>why?.
>le cricket sounds :)
Nnnnnnope :^).
Good luck with that ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((logic))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

>le fedora joke
Yikes:( *sips tea*
C R I N G E

ITT: Retarded atheists dodges the issue of many witnesses so his mum doesn't drag him to church, confident that he will be able to pull out an excuse in any possible judgement day.

The fun fact is obviously that even if there is a heaven and hell, a judgement way is a shoddy way of saving people, and probably what you have to do is earn your place with some form of spiritual practice.

I say this as someone who has experienced Henosis or union with God, the moment I experienced it, I understood this was something you earnt from a spiritual practice.

I was lucky God gifted it to me, you don't have why to be, the fun fact is that probably if you never did the thing you are supposed to do, you will merely appear in hell, with nobody to yell your discomformity at.

>>2718103
well meme'd heheh... but I bet you didn't expect this!
*teleports behind you*
*steals your catechism*
what are you gonna do now huh?

>absence of evidence isn't evidence of absenc-
>Do you believe I got MLP merch on my haouse?
>What does it have to do with m-
>No! Tell me the answer!
>Well, you can construct the answer with my first clai-
>No! You avoid it, you are dishonest.
Literally ebin.
>>2718109
>memes
Opinion discarded.
>Can you explain your poin-
>lehatjoke
mmm, sorry honey, come on it's2017! How can this happen in 2017!

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>>2718116
You can't win....I have the ultimate power....my own intelligence....not some phoney god.....it makes me....euphoric
prepare to die!

>>2718125
I suppose twitter posting triggers you a lot, so I'll stop and give you an opportunity to explain your unexplained point.

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Why should I believe, all there is is a blue ball of nothingness and schizoprenics are wrong because I don't have a gf

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>>2718130
It's too late....you are finished....no more mercy
[spooper]absence of evidence isn't evidence of absense, true, want anything else? Russel's teapot is still a valid point, although inconsequential to my own motivations for not believing, I'm not the guy you were arguing with initially.
HOWEVER

that doesn't mean that a person who doesn't see evidence and thus doesn't believe isn't a reasonable position, because holding a negative claim with no decisive evidence for or against it is more reasonable than holding a positive claim based on no evidence, i.e. one doesn't believe in Russel's teapot and the other does.

>>2718149
>x with y is more reasonable than z with @
I agree. Yet, claiming ignorance is a more reasonable point, and using induction is practical, yet violates the ultimate truth method of empirical observation you are proud of.

>pic
Yikes

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There's literally 5 religion and 3 alternative history threads out of the 16 threads on the frontpage right now.
We need /rel/. This can't go on.

>>2718108
>issue of many witnesses
Is that the thing about religious delusions? I don't know of any witness report that was able to be verified, but there's a whole lot of those that were able to be disproven.

>>2718149
>because holding a negative claim with no decisive evidence for or against it is more reasonable than holding a positive claim based on no evidence,
Any negative claim can be restated as a positive claim, which is why it can't be more reasonable to hold onto a negative claim with no evidence than to a positive claim with no evidence.

>>2718167
You're dodging russel's teapot, it's about non falsifiable claims
The teapot was unfalsifiable in russel's time

>>2718172
I don't see how this impacts what I said. The restated claim would be just as non-falsifiable.

>>2718180
"I believe we live in a world without a teapot hoovering around saturn"
That's a positive claim with a negative
"I don't believe that we live in a world without a teapot hoovering around saturn"
literally just a double negative, you're digging into semantics here, with non falsifiable stuff it will always be a double negative

>>2713356
Cathars took it one step further, declaring that the NT God was different from the OT God, which was actually Satan. They were pretty cool but the Catholics murdered them all.

>>2718167
One thing that you should know about my particular "delusion" is that we do not recruit.

The reward is very high and people don't mind you missing it.

It is already tiresome trying to talk sense into a fedora, much more would it be to teach him some basic spiritual truths, so for all we care you can die and rot.

>>2719334
It's an armchair occultist! Pretty rare breed you are.

>>2719334
>One thing that you should know about my particular "delusion" is that we do not recruit.

Darn, was hoping to drink some cyanide Kool-Aid.

This has near nothing to do with history

>>2713973
Mary was 12 years old when she gave birth to Jesus. I doubt she had much of a sex drive at that point.

>>2719397

>& humanities

>>2719384
>my choice of being a fedora neckbeard that faps to furry porn after licking ass in an underpaid shitty job to then die and go to the abrahamic hell is better than your life choice of seeking apotheosis to rule as a god.

You don't say. I truly was hoping to change my butt for yours, captain dragon dildo.

>>2719383
>armchair occultist

Oh noes, I'm an aficcionado and not a full time practicing spiritualist!

>>2710963
It requires something that modern man has lost, the capability to understand faith and the concept of believing through experiences rather than through stone hard facts.

Science has become a new religion that is being used by the political left to further devalue faith and destroy it, because their political agenda does not have faith in it, it is not some wierd conspiracy, it is just how they think they need to act in order to maintain political power and fulfill their agenda.

Since Star Trek came out this trend has been worse and worse, Nietczhe said God was dead, he was wrong, God was dying. Men have the capabilities to destroy God, by simply not believing. God needs us to fulfill his existance and normally we need him to fulfill ours. However the powers that be wish to seperate us from him so that we dont need him to fulfill us.

This kills God.

It is hard to find faith because we are part of the society that is destroying faith actively. It is a strong society that has learned to question everything but in the process has destroyed its capability to have faith.

In order to believe you must first not question 'If' but question 'how'? No one nowadays wishes to know how, but only if it is true. They dont understand theology and philosophy. They are stagnant looking to their false prophets from the political left.

I regained faith in the most workaround method possible, I became an egoist and then realized that their is no risk to worship. So I started worship, then I had siezured and divine experiences and developed real faith from the unexplained.

Tl;dr, faith is dead/dying. You must relearn how to have faith.

>>2719447
That's a scary amount of projection

>>2719496

No projection at all, atheists are 100% people that happen to have a hidden vice or two and are convinced they won't get punished by a god for it because it is mother nature calling.

Hilariously atheism puts them in the hands of a punisher, while a spiritual search would lead to other paths, like heaven or even apotheosis.

It's well thought out, that's why atheists these days are, according to /pol/, degenerate.

So by all means show me an atheists that doesn't talk in favour of faggotry or even getting fucked in the butt by a hyaena, I'll wait here and laugh.

>>2719495
So you gotta fool yourself back into believing bullshit?

>>2715007
Wtf im smart i hate religion now

>>2719495
God doesn't need us to fulfill his existence. That's blatantly antithetical to scripture. We have absolutely no power over God. This is assuming you're speaking about Christianity.

>>2719512
Senpai this is sad. You need to take a step back and realize you're pointing the finger at yourself. You use your excuse of religion or higher divine power to justify your bigotry, racism, whatever hate based mindset that lets you feel better than others.

Honestly my dude there's a reason you can only spread your beliefs on an mongolion wall painting forum, and that's because most people can see what you're selling and realize that your snake oil doesn't have much use.

But no go ahead and explain the massive conspiracy against you and your magickkkk, and how the repitilain overlords are keeping the masses brainwashed by the joos and you could easily prove the existence of magic but you don't want to and it was them goddamn repitilians that prevented you from beating the 1 million dollar challenge etc etc

>>2719495
The God is dead quote pretty much means that God can no longer be used as the metaphysical foundation for value systems and society. It really says nothing about the actual existence of God. The reason why this quote and certain readings of Nietzsche have led to nihilism and post modernism is that it basically destroys their value and belief systems. If they can't rely on "God" or religion to provide their values and beliefs then perhaps all metaphysical belief systems are flawed and thus we won't have any. This leads to the focus purely on science and facts. The issue from this of course is that science and facts cannot provide a value or belief system and thus has no meaning to it. If you blow out the basis for meaning then the result is that you lose all meaning.

Thus when society today tries to talk about religion they only see it through the lens of scientific truth and facts, but they ignore the question of whether the underlying meaning that we get from religious stories and their archetypes are true. For example with the Noah story they concentrate more on, was there actually a giant flood that washed across the Earth and did God really talk to a guy called Noah who really built a giant boat with two of every animal? Obviously they would say this didn't happen and thus the story and religion is stupid. They never ask if the meaning behind the story, which very simplified is essentially if you do wrong or don't do what you should bad things will happen and wash you away but if you do the right thing then you will be sparred, is true.

>>2719605
>believe stupid story in thousand year old book
>science proves it impossible in the natural world
>NAWW ITS A METAPHOR YOUR TOO STUPID TO UNDERSTAND
>rinse and repeat

>>2719605
My favorite life lesson from the bible was when it taught me to murder a woman for being raped, and that I can rape whoever I want as long as I can pay their father off.

Nevermind killing the families of my enemies and taking their daughters as my wives(but only the virgins tho, kill the rest)

>>2719644
yea, that's why the similar story, archetypes and meaning is one that is found cross culturally through out time and is not limited strictly to the story of Noah. Science said all of them never happened and so every culture that had such a story collectively agreed to retroactively state that it was all just a metaphor out of desperation.

>>2719544

As I said, I do not sell snake oil, we do not recruit, so no, I won't waste time doing so, and again, it's very sad what you're assuming of me.

In the case of atheism however, I'm 100% spot on, they are like that, one needs only watch people live or in tv.

>>2717927
Gnosticism actually does a pretty okay job and covers the current popsci meme of the universe being a simulation:

In Gnosticism, it IS a simulation.

>>2715007
High IQ nations also have higher rates of depression and suicide as well as lower birth rates.

The real master race is to maintain a religion for cultural purposes because atheism/secularism leads to cultural nihilism and that's toxic for a functioning society.

>>2716049

Neither is your drivel, cupcake.

Redpill me on Christian gnosticism, /his/.

>>2720444
My argument demonstrated that his crit. argument against my first one, is valid. Fuck off *drops mic*

>>2717269
>you can't demonstrate god doesn't ex-
>cringe *drops mic*
>if actually can prove it then d-
>kekkekek lololololo cringe amirite guys? BTFO
Literally ebin

>>2720464

Dissenting early christian beliefs. Mosly based upon ""hidden"" worship so at best its an idolatrous, blasphemous wiccan-like interpretation of Gd and his plan, and at worst it's basically Scientology 0.1.1

>>2720464

Gnosticism is the true religion, following christianity will lead you to hell and worse.

t. Got a mental parasite the moment I was baptized as a christian

This is what they call "holy spirit". Archon posession.

>>2719698
w0w wtf? I HATE RELIGION NOW!

The thing with Islam is that I sometimes feel like all these retards were placed within the religion just to make only the most sincere seekers actually have the courage and take that step to see if the truth is there or not.

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>>2715926
>using ad hominem

>>2713878
He did not have those in the first place. Jewish texts were added much later and this also gave birth to contradictions.

>>2723759
You never learn huh? Stop replying to me, you have NO arguments.

>>2711111
The quints. OP should believe in the repeating number faith. Quints speak the truth

>>2710963
Once you've become skeptical of any religion it's hard to believe in any of the other ones, since they all for the most part rely on you putting faith in something you can't prove.

>>2713684
>believing something for no reason

Why do you need religion anyway? It's outdated trash that should have been done away with years ago

I am god

>there has never been an atheist civilisation
well?

>>2711002
underrated

>>2710973
I bet you don't even know about 5% of all religions, you just assume they're all the same as Christianity.

>>2710977
The obsession with "truth" is mostly a western thing, and truth itself is redundancy in asserting a statement. You shouldn't ignore praxis.

>>2711002
This is true, but the same can be said for a lot of modern secular ideas. Empiricism is based on a concept of causality that is inferred rather than observed using circular reasoning, and all mathematics is "unfounded".

>>2711852
I feel Tibetan Buddhism is entry level for a lot of westerners because of new age culture. I do not mean to demean the poster before, but it really added nothing valuable to Theravada and Mahayana IMO.

>>2713356
Gnostic Christianity. Look up the heresies, they're interesting.

>>2713698
Faith doesn't mean "unjustified belief" despite the self serving definition that Dawkins chooses. It can mean "trust". Look how squeamish Richard Dawkins looked when that priest asked him whether or not he had faith in his wife.

>>2715412
I mostly agree with your sentiment, but many animals DO believe in a basic form of property; that's why they defend their territories. Humans are animals as you seem to have forgotten and chimps/dolphins seem to have a rudimentary sense of ethics

>>2726697
There is. The majority of modern east Asia and Scandinavia are atheistic.

>>2726866
People in the West tend to forget that there exists religions that don't have gods.

Buddhism is a religion but it's atheistic because there's no god figure.

>>2719750

A lot of Israel and the younger generations of parts of the Middle East from what I have heard are like this to an extent somewhat. The USA also has a lot of people who follow this line of thought/ideology.

>>2723434

Why do you think like this specifically? I'm curious.

>>2726999
I have lived as an "outsider" Muslim for a while now, I stay away from the community and don't get involved at all as I think they are misguided trash who have perverted the teachings completely. It's one thing to deal with external forces who are telling you Muhammad was a pedo etc and another to deal with those who have intentionally subverted the teachings to suit their Zionist/feminist agendas.

>>2727176


Were you born as one?

>>2713684
>believing things that have no basis in reality
>believing things because they were written in a millennia old book by stoners
>believing things that make no physical sense

>>2727454
Yes

>>2710963
Because you're in open rebellion against the living God.

>>2716274
No you fucking moron, Back created the works of Bach. Just like Rachel Bloom created Sex Junk.

>>2710963
Eh, atheistic reductionism and religion aren't that different to me. Either we're the product of evolution and are nothing more than pretentious sacks of atoms or we were given life by an all powerful entity or entities for purposes that make no sense to us and who demand constant attention from us or else we'll suffer their wrath even though it's a lot like you being angry that a electron in an atom in a grain of sand who doesn't like you.

Whatever, the point is in both situations we're not really important.

>>2727176

Mohammad was a pedo. All cult leaders are.

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>>2710963
Because you're not opening your eyes and heart to Christ. He established His Church on Pentecost through His Apostles - the Orthodox Church.

>>2728387

>idolatry

>>2715353
There is no difference. I could take my infant nephew and dash him against stones and the universe wouldn't give a shit. It's not wrong from a universal objective point of view. it's one stupid hairless ape killing a little stupider hairless ape

The reason I don't is because it's wrong from my subjective point of view. It's wrong because the chemical arrangements in my brain tell me its wrong. We're too busy claiming that we're above nature but we're not. We're all prisoners of itand instead of rattling the cages in vain and pretending we're free we should accept it. Euphoric edgelords claim that because all can be reduced to electrical signals in the brain that we should be ashamed of being swayed by something so primitive when I think it's the opposite. Simple chemical reactions and evolution have produced the greatest feelings that a person can feel and I find that wonderful. Just because we can reduce something to its core components doesn't diminish it

>>2715353
because then i would see that you could also be a danger for me and others will think in a similar manner, so we use force to enforce our prefered order of things

>>2726855
>Faith doesn't mean "unjustified belief" despite the self serving definition that Dawkins chooses. It can mean "trust". Look how squeamish Richard Dawkins looked when that priest asked him whether or not he had faith in his wife.

>Playing semantics makes god real

>>2715364
Te point is that faith is powerless in the face of reality.

>>2710963
probably because you worship the 'science' and 'mass media' religion thats taught you a certain way to see the world and judge everything based on its rules.

>>2715353
I dont believe in god yet I uphold social conventions and live my life, but Im not moral in your sence because I dont believe in god and that somehow makes me forget to evaluate life and simply being human.

Its funny when people dont want to believe things, they always cut off all the thoughts they could have and never try to answer them.
I guess youre being so delusional that your brain just says "duh im clueless".

File: Kek 3.jpg (134KB, 960x872px) Image search: [Google]

134KB, 960x872px

How can you post in the temple of Kek without seeing his holy truth?